You guys are pathetic and sad.

I couldn't agree more. People who believe irrational creation myths are pathetic and sad.

I actually looked up religion in the dictionary, and it is “an institutionalized or personal system of beliefs and practices relating to the divine”. But here is what got me very intrigued; the definition does not stop with the divine, but it actually goes on to say that religion is a “set of strongly-held beliefs, values, and attitudes that somebody lives by”. (Encarta Dictionary) What intrigued me regarding that definition is the fact that atheists many times seem to distance themselves from any association of faith or beliefs. Although they may not believe in a deity, nevertheless they certainly live by atheistic convictions, which state “that there is no God”… and this just happens to be a “set of strongly-held beliefs, values, and attitudes that somebody lives by”. It turns out that atheism is actually a religion that simply holds the belief that there is no God. While one religion says there is a God, the other says that there is no God… and they are both religious because it takes faith to hold to the teaching and virtues of any of the two.

Did you think of that all by yourself? Isn't that precious! Intrigued! You!

Wrong.

Do you believe in the Hindu god Ganesh?

If not, are you a member of the "No Ganesh" religion?

If you are going to use “set of strongly-held beliefs, values, and attitudes that somebody lives by” the way you did

then does that mean there is a Republican religion? A communist religion? A liberal religion, etc.?

I think you may have left some things out of the definition.

I cannot find any definition of religion which does not mention one or all of the following:

Belief in God, supernatural powers, devotional/ritual observances, moral codes.

Anyway...to quote Adrian Barnett (an atheist)....

"In many cases, atheists will say "That God does not exist", not because they choose to do so, but because, from the description of the God, it cannot exist due to contradictory attributes. In the same way that a square circle cannot (and therefore does not) exist, a God defined as (for example) all-knowing, yet cannot see into the future, cannot and does not exist because the definition is self-contradictory. If you describe your God with self-contradicting attributes which make it logically impossible, then I may safely say that such a thing does not exist as described. This is not faith - this is reason. "

The definition of religion says that it is a system of beliefs. But what are that beliefs? Things that are not demonstrable. Things that you're accepting without any proof.

Atheism needs proofs for its own ideas. For this, it's not a religion.

I WAS ALWAYS A VERY SKEPTICAL CHRISTIAN GROWING UP, CONVERTED TO ATHEISM JUST ABOUT 5 YEARS AGO. IT'S AMAZING THAT SO MANY PEOPLE CLING TO SUCH A CRAZY CONCEPT OUT OF FEAR, AND IGNORANCE. I RECOMEND EVERY CHRISTIAN, JEW ETC. READ A SCIENCE BOOK, WATCH THE RATIONAL RESPONDERS, CHECK OUT VIDEOS ON YOUTUBE.COM POSTED BY A MAN WITH THE SCREENNAME: THUNDERF00T (HE HAS GREAT VIDEOS, WITH STAGGERING KNOWLEGE ON MANY SUBJECTS, VERY WELL INFORMED), AND I DARE YOU ALL TO UNSHACKLE YOURSELVES FROM THE FEAR AND GUILT INSTILLED IN YOU BY AMERICAN CULTURE'S CHRISTIANITY OR ANY OTHER RELIGEON, AND LIVE LIFE! APPRECIATE LIFE FOR WHAT IT IS, AND YOUR CHANCE TO HAVE BEEN PART OF THIS AMAZING EXISTANCE. WITHOUT THE MYTHOLOGY OF SOME DEITY, OR IDEA OF CREATIONISM, YOU HAVE THE ABILITY TO COME TO A REAL MOMENT OF CLARITY. WE ARE APES. I'M PROUD TO BE AN APE, AND PROUD TO HAVE HAD THE CHANCE TO BE A MEMBER OF A SPECIES THAT WAS ABLE TO FLOURISH ON THIS WONDERFUL PLANET.

I'M JUST AN AVERAGE GUY WHO READS. SO HERE I WOULD LIKE TO SUGGEST SOME MATERIAL:

THE THIRD CHIMPANZEE, BY: JARED DIAMOND

A BRIEF HISTORY OF TIME, BY: STEPHEN HAWKING

THE DESCENT OF MAN, BY: CHARLES DARWIN

GUNS, GERMS AND STEEL, BY: JARED DIAMOND

AND I ALSO LOOK FORWARD TO READING "THE GOD DELUSION" BY: RICHARD DAWKINS, BUT I'M IN NO NEED OF CONVINCING. I STRONGLY RECOMEND THUNDERF00T ON YOUTUBE.COM, WITH HIS SERIES :WHY DO PEOPLE LAUGH AT CREATIONISTS?" PT. 1-28. VERY NICE. ITS ALWAYS GOOD TO KNOW THERE ARE A HANDFUL OF GOOD PEOPLE OUT THERE THAT THINK ON A HIGHER PLANE THAN THE IGNORANT MAJORITY

I don't have slick words or slick rationalizations.  Really, I'm not a very smart at all.  Seems to me though the best one can say when all arguments have been heard is, there is a good, and there is an evil, or there is nothing, which side am I on?  In my opinion, we all will choose which side we are  on.  The logic I've read from the religious and the non-religious cannot bring me to the point where I cannot conclude this choice, our side, isn't made daily and acted on daily.  We defer on our choices, conclusions, and perceptions relating to these, but we still choose.  We get our motors running with a certain conclusion, oftentimes turn our lives on auto pilot, and get frustrated when something crowds our little box.

Bundling people into three types, in relation to the grand scheme, they believe in the good, they believe in the evil, or they believe in the nothing, is of course not fair.  Lumping people into types and groups is simply like the difference between looking at satellite pictures on google maps online and then google earth with its 3D effect.  Its not entirely fair to say google earth will yield the more correct result; the eye is in the beholder.  Different data inputs might yield more precise descriptions in this instance, but do not necessarily yield the truth our existence. 

My point here is the baloney arguments on many sites and by many people pro and con in relation to the truth of our existence  do not tackle the ultimate point;  that if I conclude other peoples existence is acceptable, then "liberty for all" is necessary for harmony regardless of what another person believes.  We all decide for ourselves, accept the consequences of our choices, and ultimately die alone, as individuals.

And when I try to fit a square peg into a round hole, is this reason, or is it not using common sense?  Belief, even if said to be the opinion of fact, is an absolute facet of reason in real life.  Yes, extracted from daily life, the above statement is reason.  We err when we follow the rabbit hole of bringing our rationalizations out of the reality of life, not to inflect, to have as a mantra.

Why do atheists want so much discussion about God ?

How can you have so much  discussion on something you claim doesnt exist?

And why be actively pursuant in trying to dissuade those who by their own choice or

free will have come to the conclusion by whatever means that there is a God .

If you dont want to believe it is your choice, you are entitled to it and anyway

when you die that is when we all know what the real truth is......

Because millions of religious sheep are determined to impose their ridiculous superstitions on the rest of us. Also, the discussion concerns the belief in 'God', which atheists lack belief in. The theists are the ones claiming 'God' exists, it's up to them to present evidence for and coherently define this 'God'.

Are you serious? Discourse about the world and beliefs about it is how progress is made, how understanding increases. Why should belief in 'God' be excluded from this? The "whatever means" is also very peculiar. Are you seriously suggesting that all means are equal? That a whim based on magical/wishful thinking is on equal terms with rigorous scientific inquiry? If so, I must inform you that if everyone held to such an idea, the computer you typed on wouldn't have been invented. Neither would written language.

Why, thank you for granting us the right to believe what we want, something that goes against the 1st commandment of YHWH (a particularly nasty tribal deity). We also firmly stand behind your right to not only believe what you want, but also to express it. With that right also comes our right to express our opinion that your beliefs are irrational and devoid of insight into the real world. This is demonstrated by the fact that you seem to think that when you die, when your brain which is responsible for all your thoughts and interpretation of your surroundings stops working, then you magically will "know" what "real truth" is. Thank you for so eloquently demonstrating magical thinking. Have fun in la-la land. I prefer knowledge to false hope based on ancient texts compiled by middle eastern bronze age goat hearders with an unhealthy fascination with the female birth canal and human sacrifice.

Regardless of whether we believe in God or not, the fact that the majority of the world does believe in God and, more importantly, tailors their actions to these beliefs, makes the issue extremely important. Do you support evolution? If you don't, why do you argue against it (hypothetically)? Do you follow Islam? If you don't, why do you argue against it? Because our beliefs do not reside in a void; they determine what we do.

The same reasons as above.

Believing that we should stone women whom accidentally show their ankles in public is obviously not the end of the philosophical train; it leads to actively condoning such actions, and eventually, perhaps, even carrying out the divine punishments ourselves. Naturally, another question would be, if your neighbor believes that it's righteous to stone women for showing their face, would you care? What about when they start stoning women in the middle of the street? Would you care then?...or would you just ignore them based on the idea that you shouldn't harass other people's beliefs.

That's correct. You have two choices. You can either actively pursue the truth or you can commit the ultimate intellectual cop-out. You seem to prefer the latter.

Of course, if you happen to be wrong, then you've wasted your entire life. But, that doesn't scare you nearly as much as the unjustifiable, unexplainable horror of actually challenging your belief system. 

do u really BELIEVE that.

or does the fact that there is a creator conflict with your current lifestyle, wich allows no space for HIM.

quote" Do you know everyyhing?Do u know half of everthing?  Is it possable that GOD exists in the half u dont know about?"

Since that was the most pathetic attempt I've seen all day, I'll do no more than reverse the questions right back at you.

Does the fact that there is no creator conflict with your current lifestyle, which allows space for invisible friends and magic?

Do you know everything? Do you know half of everything? Do you know a millionth of everything? Is it possible that the lack of god in what you do know is reflected in that which you do not?

I really like the honesty you have. But think of this for just a moment...Ok so say that you are right, there is no God, and I'm wrong because I do believe in God. What Have I lost? Nothing. I have lived a wonderful complete life, full of love and freedom in Christ. I have seen the way that people live when they don't have Christ in their lives; The pointless wondering and meaninglessness. I couldn't be more happy with my life! It leaves me in awesome wonder the God of the whole world loves me and wants to know me! But what if you are wrong, and there is a God? What will your answer to him be when he asks you on judgement day, "How could you turn away such a great gift  of love to you which cost me my life?" If I'm wrong I loose nothing-I lived a happy and full life. If you are wrong you will spend forever in Hell. I would make sure you are right. I'm praying for you. Really think about it!

Esther,

Doesn't it bother you that your best "argument" (and I use that very loosely here) is that if we don't believe your fairy tales, then we go to a place of eternal torment? I am serious. Have you ever really thought about it? Is that why you believe? If so, you're believing because if you don't, it will really really hurt forever. That's not free will, that is called coercion of the most extreme kind. Is that an acceptable reason for you to believe? If not, why should we?

This tired old crap is called Pascal's wager. Not only was it refuted instantly, it's not even about the existence of your 'God'. It's a fool's betting game on completely false premises. There are plenty of material on this site on this particular fallacy. You should read it, educate yourself.

I'll be thinking for you.

How sad that you're wasting your life believing in nothing, when you could actually be accomplishing something, like helping people. You'd better hope your god doesn't exist. He'll look worse on you than on us. Of course, if your god doesn't exist, and someone elses does, then you're even more fucked. False idols and such. We have none.

Pascals wager gets dumber every time I see it.

To be atheist is to believe that something can come from nothing, and that life can be derived from non-life.

Christianity

The belief that some Jewish Zombie can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him that you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil source from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree.
 

QFT.

You should join the site!

Creationism will die out just like Greek mythology did, because Creationism is quite obviously false in every way, you'd have to be uneducated to believe it. I'm not neccisarily saying all the theories out there are true either, for all we know there may be an alternate truth beside evolution. But what I can say for sure is that Creationism is an obvious fairy tale.

Me too!