Greydon Square attacks Brian Sapient (later pleas guilty)

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Greydon Square attacks Brian Sapient (later pleas guilty)

Brian, I realize that words alone aren't worth much, but since I have nothing else to offer you:

I just wanted to give you my deepest sympathies. I'm quite sure Greydon hurt more than just your head when he attacked you. I am very sorry to hear that this happened to you, as well as the other tragedy you mentioned but did not want to discuss.

Bad things like that shouldn't happen to good people like yourself. The fact that they do will always be the most compelling evidence, to me, that there is no magical force looking out for the best interests of the meek or altruistic. It's a bleak world, sometimes, which is why I think it's so important we show kindness, compassion and companionship to one another.

 


Second post from Kevin Brown on the horrific attack by Greydon Square on Brian Sapient:

Kevin Brown wrote:

 

Brian and a number of other people from the RRS were at a secular humanist convention in the Washington District of Columbia. Greydon Square was there to both promote his CD and simply be another atheistic representative.

Greydon is, as I understand it, bipolar - and was not taking his medication. He confronted Brian at the convention over a paranoid delusion he'd developed as a result, regarding the CDs that Brian and bought and was selling at the convention (feeling that he was somehow being taken advantage of, regardless of the fact that these were CDs Brian had already paid Greydon for), and psychotically attacked and attempted to beat Brian to death (nearly succeeding in the endeavor).

 

Brian explained this story to the best of his ability to as many people as possible on Stickam, just after getting out of the hospital. He looked like he'd been hit by a truck.

To say the least, Greydon's in prison right now, charges are pending.

 

Such a waste.

 

nullusdeus wrote:

 

Brian,

I'm sure you've had other threats, but to have someone you trusted turn on you is reprehensible. I'm sure myself and countless others wish you a speedy recovery. The mental part, I realize, is the most difficult to overcome.

 

Iruka wrote:

 

Holy shit. Sad  I had no idea.

This sucks on so many levels. 

Brian, I hope you're doing better.

 

On edit: This really bothers me because if Greydon wasn't on medication, he isn't entirely responsible for his actions.  Yet I'm extremely concerned about Brian.  No winners here.  It just plain sucks.

I have a severe form of unipolar depression.  I've never developed delusions or psychoses.  I've never become violent toward others.  However, my doctor just tried to change one of my medications (sans psychiatrist because there aren't any good ones in this county).  I've been at the edge of a panic attack for about two weeks as a result.  I think (hope?)  I'm turning the corner.  It got so bad that at several points I was like, "Please, I'll believe in anything, god...just fix me!"  Of course, I don't believe in god, nor do I think I could make myself, but it was that bad.  I've been an atheist for many years and haven't felt anything like this in quite some time.

Mental illness is awful, especially because of the stigma and loss of self-respect that often follow.  For Greydon it's hard enough to be a black atheist.  Once he's well enough to realize what he's done to Brian (and probably his own career), he's going to be in a lot of pain.  I'm with Brian: Let's pray to Jake that Greydon gets the help he needs.

Again: Brian, I'm sorry this happened to you.  Rest well.  What a huge shock to you, both mentally and physically. Sad

 

What Brian Sapient has to say about Greydon Square and his assault

 

Thingy wrote:

 

Now that I know what happened, you can throw my best wishes, thoughts, and prayers to both Jake and the FSM in to the ring too.  Best of luck with the recovery Sapient.

I've never understood why people start refusing to take meds, even if they are artists and their creativity gets affected.  The downside in almost all situations I've come across (including ones that don't end up in situations like this) still don't seem worth it to me yet by the time the person gets back on the meds they've formed other rationalisations which make them not see the real affects that everyone around them sees of being off the meds.  It makes it that much easier for them to convince themself next time to stop taking them etc and turns it in to a recurring circle.  The sooner he gets back on them to realise what he's done the better. 

I hadn't bought any Greydon CD's in the past because the music just isn't my style.  It's something I probably wouldn't even listen to once, so I never bothered with the purchase.  May as well make a donation via another form as I've done via the gold membership.

bsalert wrote:

 

People have misunderstandings and conflicts, but there is no excuse for things degenerating to violence like that. 

However, I wouldn't go so far as to use Greydon as the poster child for bipolar disorder and imply that all people suffering from such ailments are prone to violence.

I would point out that there's another serious problem looming on the horizon that is affecting people like him who have served in the armed forces: Post Traumatic Stress Disorder.  Not that I have any clue what is happening with him, but PTSD is another issue that I wouldn't be surprised if it was a factor. 

In any case, this is a sucky thing to have gone down.  I hope it resolves itself in a way that everyone can live with.

 

 

Three years later and Sapient still has PTSD:

Sapient wrote:

I still have PTSD from this.  I'm too embarrassed to explain publicly how that PTSD affects me, because I know it's illogical and irrational.  My fears are based solely on one person, but the PTSD remains.  

 

 

 

 

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Huh?  What happened?

Huh?  What happened?


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Was that the great RRS 

Was that the great RRS  Brian37 ? Go revolution .... No Masters.

Say again about Brian??? 


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Thanks for saying that

Thanks for saying that Kevin.  It's nice to have the support of the community.  Now let's all just pray to Jake that Greydon gets the help he needs and overcomes this struggle.  I'll be fine in the long term, or as fine as can be under the circumstances. 

 

P.S.  This is why I never leave the house.  (anyone hearing me yet... wink at Kelly and Rook)

- Brian Sapient


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 Uh, what happened?

 Uh, what happened?


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curious

 

  I'm with his Willness,   you've got everyone  curious as all done out;  what the hell happened!!!!!!!!!?

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Same here - if it's

Same here - if it's something that it wasn't wanted for the rest of us to know about you should have just pm'd him.

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Brian and a number of other

Brian and a number of other people from the RRS were at a secular humanist convention in the Washington District of Columbia. Greydon Square was there to both promote his CD and simply be another atheistic representative.

Greydon is, as I understand it, bipolar - and was not taking his medication. He confronted Brian at the convention over a paranoid delusion he'd developed as a result, regarding the CDs that Brian and bought and was selling at the convention (feeling that he was somehow being taken advantage of, regardless of the fact that these were CDs Brian had already paid Greydon for), and psychotically attacked and attempted to beat Brian to death (nearly succeeding in the endeavor).

 

Brian explained this story to the best of his ability to as many people as possible on Stickam, just after getting out of the hospital. He looked like he'd been hit by a truck.

To say the least, Greydon's in prison right now, charges are pending.

 

Such a waste.

Quote:
"Natasha has just come up to the window from the courtyard and opened it wider so that the air may enter more freely into my room. I can see the bright green strip of grass beneath the wall, and the clear blue sky above the wall, and sunlight everywhere. Life is beautiful. Let the future generations cleanse it of all evil, oppression and violence, and enjoy it to the full."

- Leon Trotsky, Last Will & Testament
February 27, 1940


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Man, that's awful. Sucks he

Man, that's awful. Sucks he did that - he's such a talented artist and apparently intelligent enough to be going for an advanced physics degree. People on psychotropic meds really need to keep taking them unless told otherwise by their doctor. I know if I stopped taking mine I'd probably attemp suicide again. Brian, I hope you're feeling better after all that.

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Kevin R Brown wrote:... in

Kevin R Brown wrote:

... in the Washington District of Columbia.

nothing but love for you kevin but that came out beyond canadian...

 

 

 

This guy has some facts of the event right...

-----------------

Popular blog post from an atheist that had second hand knowledge of the event:

Quote:
 

What occurred over the last weekend at the AHA/SSA conference was that Greydon Square got into a verbal disagreement with Brain Sapient of the Rational Response Squad, and finally turned over a table and repeatedly punched Brian in the face causing severe bruising, lacerations and abrasions and hospitalization. The argument was because Brian was standing up for himself and was not backing down to Greydon's demands to stop selling his CD's, which Brain stated he had already paid for and felt it was ethical and fair for him to continue selling the CDs. Greydon then digressed into a threat of physical violence, and Brian did not wish to leave it at that. Brian requested they finish the issue there and then so as not to have to have it lingering. Greydon then flipped over the table throwing it into one of the "mediators" that Greydon requested and knocked Brian to the ground with a punch and continued to punch Brian in the face repeatedly.

In the past I have attended ,and will attend, various SSA/AHA events. I have met many people over the years and hope beyond hope that anyone I befriended at these events are not any of the individuals I see posting light hearted commentary about this event and ins many cases, justifying what Greydon Square did.

I am particularly interested in having dialog with Ishmael and anyone else who did not seem to take this event seriously and understand that Brian was in no way responsible for the atrocious behavior of Greydon any more than a girl is in no way responsible for her rape if she was wearing a short skirt. In other words, even *IF* all the allegations against Brian are true, it in no way justifies what Greydon did. Greydon is 100% responsible for his deplorable act, and should suffer the social interactions for what he did. It is a side-track to continue to refer to what an asshole Brian is because he was ripping people off, or what ever accusation one might have about his personality. I do not know Brian and agree that if he is involved in criminal behavior, he should be held accountable. But I withhold my "belief" (hint: as all good skeptic should pride themselves in doing) about those allegations against Brian until I have hard evidence for it.

My hard evidence for what Greydon did, and my recounting of some fo the facts about the conversations that were had with Greydon before the assault, and the assault itself, are from one of the two eye witnesses to the event with whom I am a close friend who relayed to me the particulars of the event. I am taking this on because I am shocked, absolutely dismayed at some of the posts on the Internet I have seen from supposed other rational mature atheists. I was naive in that area... I thought it was impossible for educated atheists to ever find such an act "deserved" or light-hearted and not taken very seriously. 

 

 


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Sapient wrote: P.S.  This

Sapient wrote:

 

P.S.  This is why I never leave the house. 

Brian,

I'm sure you've had other threats, but to have someone you trusted turn on you is reprehensible. I'm sure myself and countless others wish you a speedy recovery. The mental part, I realize, is the most difficult to overcome.

Miracles don't exist. "Miracle" is a word given to a preposterous event that a theist considers dogmatically advantageous. Def. - Ecclesiastical sensationalism.


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Take it easy Brian (as if).

Take it easy Brian (as if). Here's hoping you'll both be patched up and good to go soon.

As an aside for everyone, if you've not already seen it and don't have personal experience with that particular disorder I recommend Stephen Fry's deeply personal and disarmingly honest documentary detailing his own struggle with manic depression and that of more severe sufferers. "The Secret Life of the Manic Depressive," filmed for and released by the BBC.

Stop that... It's silly.


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Didn't Christina Ricci do

Didn't Christina Ricci do some independent movie about a really smart girl who was bipolar?

 

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Kevin R Brown wrote:Brian

Kevin R Brown wrote:

Brian and a number of other people from the RRS were at a secular humanist convention in the Washington District of Columbia. Greydon Square was there to both promote his CD and simply be another atheistic representative.

Greydon is, as I understand it, bipolar - and was not taking his medication. He confronted Brian at the convention over a paranoid delusion he'd developed as a result, regarding the CDs that Brian and bought and was selling at the convention (feeling that he was somehow being taken advantage of, regardless of the fact that these were CDs Brian had already paid Greydon for), and psychotically attacked and attempted to beat Brian to death (nearly succeeding in the endeavor).

 

Brian explained this story to the best of his ability to as many people as possible on Stickam, just after getting out of the hospital. He looked like he'd been hit by a truck.

To say the least, Greydon's in prison right now, charges are pending.

 

Such a waste.

Holy shit. Sad  I had no idea.

This sucks on so many levels. 

Brian, I hope you're doing better.

 

On edit: This really bothers me because if Greydon wasn't on medication, he isn't entirely responsible for his actions.  Yet I'm extremely concerned about Brian.  No winners here.  It just plain sucks.

I have a severe form of unipolar depression.  I've never developed delusions or psychoses.  I've never become violent toward others.  However, my doctor just tried to change one of my medications (sans psychiatrist because there aren't any good ones in this county).  I've been at the edge of a panic attack for about two weeks as a result.  I think (hope?)  I'm turning the corner.  It got so bad that at several points I was like, "Please, I'll believe in anything, god...just fix me!"  Of course, I don't believe in god, nor do I think I could make myself, but it was that bad.  I've been an atheist for many years and haven't felt anything like this in quite some time.

Mental illness is awful, especially because of the stigma and loss of self-respect that often follow.  For Greydon it's hard enough to be a black atheist.  Once he's well enough to realize what he's done to Brian (and probably his own career), he's going to be in a lot of pain.  I'm with Brian: Let's pray to Jake that Greydon gets the help he needs.

Again: Brian, I'm sorry this happened to you.  Rest well.  What a huge shock to you, both mentally and physically. Sad

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Not only is his version of

Not only is his version of the story delusional, but he was completely unprovoked, and impenetrable to reason. 

As for Greydon CD's that have not been sent out... as I stated in the chat, I found out just recently that the volunteer who agreed to send them stopped sending them, leaving me high and dry as of April 1st.  Of the Cd's sold 3 or 4 people disputed the charge with paypal and were refunded their money.  Not only will everyone who purchased a CD be sent their CD in the near future, but even the people who disputed the charge and were refunded their money will receive a CD for the inconvenience.

Some other bullet points...

- The RRS has no current plans of ever supporting Greydon again.

- RRS would like to officially disassociate itself from Greydon.  However, ironically Greydon commented that "I'm still RRS because RRS is everyone" and in some respects he is right.  Calling yourself part of our team doesn't necessitate being a paid member, or a board member, or anything other than the acceptance of our ideas and how to inject them into society.  It should be noted however that we never condone physical violence against another, let alone people who built your career as a means of controlling a situation. 

- Greydon has not only displayed no remorse, but has stated that he took it easy on me. UPDATE: GREYDON EXPRESSED REMORSE (6-12-08)  UPDATE: 2010 Several people have reported that Greydon expressing remorse was disengenious and that he is proud of his violent actions.

- we have reason to believe his attack was premeditated

- Greydon doesn't take his meds because he feels it hinders his creativity

- Greydon has and is downplaying this story as if he did nothing to little wrong 

- everything was done to remain civil and to calm Greydon down so our friendship could be restored and he could understand the reasons behind any issues he had, he seemed disinterested in any peaceful resolution. 

- Greydon was not just upset at CD sales, he had a string of reasons, many also with gaping logic holes.  Like for example I don't call him enough, when in reality I had no number for him, and he had mine.  At our house we were frustrated with him for months for being so hard to contact and making himself unavailable, however none of us are barbaric enough to ever consider fighting as a means of resolution. 

- my loved ones and several RRS supporters are livid with Greydon and insistent that he see his day in court.

- a stay away (order of protection) was issued by the court against Greydon

- he spent approximately 48 hours in jail. 

- we at the RRS house, and RRS as an organization is a pacifistic one.  We are willing to recognize that his brutality doesn't warrant physical retaliation as he was likely in the midst of a mental breakdown due to his disease.  My intent was not to fight back, but merely to defend myself from his viciousness, and still to this day I have a lot of love for him, and understanding that his biggest flaw was not taking his meds.

I had to ask the people around me to calm down and insist that no retaliation would occur. 

 

This new blog summarizes some of what happened and also a frustration with the non skeptical atheists, his account is a recall of my own info and possibly one of the witnesses.  Some of this isn't entirely accurate but since the rumor machine is in full effect I thought it would be better to post some of the comments that at least come close to hitting the mark...

Quote:

http://theusernamejoewastaken.blogspot.com/

Brian Sapient and Greydon Square

What occurred over the last weekend at the AHA/SSA conference was that Greydon Square got into a verbal disagreement with Brain Sapient of the Rational Response Squad, and finally turned over a table and repeatedly punched Brian in the face causing severe bruising, lacerations and abrasions and hospitalization. The argument was because Brian was standing up for himself and was not backing down to Greydon's demands to stop selling his CD's, which Brain stated he had already paid for and felt it was ethical and fair for him to continue selling the CDs. Greydon then digressed into a threat of physical violence, and Brian did not wish to leave it at that. Brian requested they finish the issue there and then so as not to have to have it lingering. Greydon then flipped over the table throwing it into one of the "mediators" that Greydon requested and knocked Brian to the ground with a punch and continued to punch Brian in the face repeatedly.

In the past I have attended ,and will attend, various SSA/AHA events. I have met many people over the years and hope beyond hope that anyone I befriended at these events are not any of the individuals I see posting light hearted commentary about this event and ins many cases, justifying what Greydon Square did.

I am particularly interested in having dialog with Ishmael and anyone else who did not seem to take this event seriously and understand that Brian was in no way responsible for the atrocious behavior of Greydon any more than a girl is in no way responsible for her rape if she was wearing a short skirt. In other words, even *IF* all the allegations against Brian are true, it in no way justifies what Greydon did. Greydon is 100% responsible for his deplorable act, and should suffer the social interactions for what he did. It is a side-track to continue to refer to what an asshole Brian is because he was ripping people off, or what ever accusation one might have about his personality. I do not know Brian and agree that if he is involved in criminal behavior, he should be held accountable. But I withhold my "belief" (hint: as all good skeptic should pride themselves in doing) about those allegations against Brian until I have hard evidence for it.

My hard evidence for what Greydon did, and my recounting of some fo the facts about the conversations that were had with Greydon before the assault, and the assault itself, are from one of the two eye witnesses to the event with whom I am a close friend who relayed to me the particulars of the event. I am taking this on because I am shocked, absolutely dismayed at some of the posts on the Internet I have seen from supposed other rational mature atheists. I was naive in that area... I thought it was impossible for educated atheists to ever find such an act "deserved" or light-hearted and not taken very seriously.

 

Here are some other comments with a high degree of accuracy, the first of which is from Joe who also posted the blog above that he started just today in the face of the irrational and hateful atheists (welcome to my world Joe)

Quote:

"Oh, and Greydon Square apparently beat the shit out of Brian Sapient. Money or something. Many lolz to be had, despite the fact that I am big fans of both individuals."

Many lolz to be had? This was not funny in the least, and Brian was not ripping Greydon off (God I hate rumors)... . Here are the facts as told to me by one of the two witnesses who were asked to be there by Greydon during the 'talk' that turned into a vicious attack. I don't even know Brian, never met him, and don't vouch for any other aspect of his personality. The true story is it had to do with some customers buying Greydon's cd's (I tried to like this guy before this happened too, but now he is a low life scum bag who gets no respect from me and apparently didn't rise above the disgusting glorification of the ghetto culture) from the RSS website. Many customers were getting lost after they paid for their CD's, and they complained directly to Greydon that they were not getting their CDs they ordered. Greydon then wants a mediated (his request) meeting with Brian Sapient about the issue. From one of the only two eye witnesses, he was "very irate" before even going to this meeting.

The meeting was arranged a bit later, and Greydon airs his complaints about the CD's to Brain. When Brian explained this was an issue that was being worked out, Greydon then demanded of Brian that he not sell any CD's at the event. Brain refused, and Captain Dipshit flipped over the table and pummeled his fists into Brian's face repeatedly, more times than could be counted, as the the other two in attendance ran for help. It was a violent savage animalistic assault by a low-life thug who put shame on the atheist community. To take this lightly and see it as a ho-hum crime by Greydon is jejune at best, despicable and makes you untrustworthy at worst. I will not associate with any atheist who thinks this was funny, or light hearted, or justified in any manner. I will not associate with an atheist who does not see this as any less than an intolerable, unacceptable violent attack. Those who think otherwise says so much about the atheist and freethought community that I do not want to associate with anyone that helps put this shame on the freethought community.

 

Quote:

I was not at the conference, but heard a first-person account the day after from Sapient about the events that transpired. I will only address the financial "questions," which is really being kind, seeing as how this is nobody's business except the people he chose to tell.

Sapient paid money for the CD's up front to promote off the RRS website, and also gave Greydon a portion of those CD's for free. A volunteer was supposed to be in charge of shipping out the CD's ordered from RRS, but fell behind on the task, and so people complained to Greydon about it, when he actually was not at fault. When he confronted Sapient about it, he asked the RRS not to sell any more CD's and just keep the money, but Sapient tried to explain that the money was already invested in the CD's and he is still out several hundred dollars until he sells them. Greydon falsely accused Sapient of trying to rip him off, which is not the case.

Greydon is bipolar, but had neglected to take his medication recently, which is largely what caused him to get upset. I will not say anymore about it; Joe's account was pretty accurate, and I think that's all you scumbags need to know. There is nothing funny about the altercation, and given that Brian is in bad condition right now and is stressed out from recent events, it would be nice if you bastards would at least keep your negative comments about the RRS to yourselves for once.

 

From Kelly on another blog...

 

Quote:

The police held him until Monday evening, and we await a trial date on the current charge "Simple Assualt" which has a penalty of no more than 6 months in prison and a possible fine.

Most atheist leaders have communicated to us that because of his actions they will not be able to allow him to come to their conventions in the future, and several have stated that they have removed him from already arranged line ups.

The attack was unprovoked and all attempts to come to an amicable resolution were made by Sapient when Greydon lost his cool and went apeshit. I hope to be able to provide public record at a later date to verify these claims.

 

Here is a record of Greydons last arrest: http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/97243

Greydon responded to that here with laughter and an admission that he beat someone up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8ndyyeIUcw  (UPDATE: it appears Greydon removed the video, however prosecutors do indeed have a copy)

Let it be noted that as a friend I did my best to keep this last event under wraps, and still wish him no ill will, and instead hope he gets the treatment he needs.

UPDATE: ALL CD's WERE SENT OUT, also the case in court is the US gov vs Greydon (even if I wanted to drop the charges, I couldn't)

- Brian Sapient


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Quote:- he spent

Quote:
- he spent approximately 48 hours in jail and at his arraignment was laughing, smiling, and joking with court employees.  This fun going and convincing of lack of guilt attitude is what can be expected by those who hear his side of the story.

Two words: Eric Harris.

Two more words: Ted Bundy

Four more words: WHY WON'T PEOPLE LEARN!?!?

 

I've already seen that video response Greydon made after his prior arrest. Guess what it's full of? Gloating and contempt. It's not simply a case of remorse: he's glad he did it, h'es glad he got the attention for doing it and he's all so impressed with himself that he can hide behind his amicable smokescreen so well.

He's a clinical sociopath, and it wouldn't take a professional criminal psychologist more than 30 minutes to diagnose him as such. He should be behind bars for the rest of his life, for the safety of everyone around him.

If it were my world, he'd be fertilizer by now, and there'd be no need to worry about it. But that's for another thread...

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Hey Greydon HEAL you

Hey Greydon

 HEAL you FUCKING BROTHER ATHEIST ASSHOLE

a CD of apology would help us ALL  ..... 

 

 


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Kevin R Brown wrote: I've

Kevin R Brown wrote:
 

I've already seen that video response Greydon made after his prior arrest. Guess what it's full of? Gloating and contempt. It's not simply a case of remorse: he's glad he did it, h'es glad he got the attention for doing it and he's all so impressed with himself that he can hide behind his amicable smokescreen so well.

FWIW: There is no evidence to suggest that cd sales increased as a result of people hating on him in reference to his last arrest (as he suggests in that old video)

 

 

- Brian Sapient


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"God Bedring" Brian, as they

"God Bedring" Brian, as they say here in Norway. Sounds very religious but it just means "get well soon".

Greydon sounds like a piece of crap who can't figure out himself how he's content to use people he doesn't really like to make a buck but hates himself for doing it - too vain to admit he's a parasite and too thick to express his confusion except through violence.

 

Bipolar my ass. I know many people with that diagnosis, and none of them use it as an excuse to be vicious.

 

And stop that praying to Jake for his health nonsense too! If you're going to go all patronisingly dippy like a religionist then pray that he picks an argument with an oncoming juggernaut in the near future - or else wises up.

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Kevin R Brown wrote:Quote:-

Kevin R Brown wrote:

Quote:
- he spent approximately 48 hours in jail and at his arraignment was laughing, smiling, and joking with court employees.  This fun going and convincing of lack of guilt attitude is what can be expected by those who hear his side of the story.

Two words: Eric Harris.

Two more words: Ted Bundy

He's bipolar, not a sociopath. My brother's bipolar, and he has the same kind of strange behaviour. The giddiness, especially when in bad situations, is typical (from what I understand) and it's more of a coping mechanism. If he goes back on medication (which should be court-ordered) and still doesn't express any kind of remorse, then you're talking about a completely different thing. 

Anyway, I've had that kind of beating bestowed upon me, Brian, so I feel your pain. Of course, in my case, it was a sporting event, so it's not quite the same. I'm with you in hoping Greydon gets the help he needs.

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Brian,My absolute

Brian,

My absolute sympathies. It's bad enough when a friend turns on you, but to have it be physical like that... I can't even begin to imagine.

I hope Greydon eventually comprehends what he's done.

Speedy recovery, my friend.

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Shouldn't his picture be

Shouldn't his picture be removed from the banner at the top?


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MattShizzle wrote:Shouldn't

MattShizzle wrote:

Shouldn't his picture be removed from the banner at the top?

 

Yes, all in due time.

 

As for the familiarity with bi-polar... Kelly was married and physically abused by someone with bi-polar for years, it does fit.  The public thought he was the greatest most amazing man on Earth, behind closed doors it was an uncontrollable rage of violence.  I was behind closed doors with Greydon. 

 

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I've also had personal

I've also had personal experience with someone, who I at first really cared about, with bipolar disorder. It lasted about 6 months. I know each individual case is a little bit different, however, from my involvement with her I've developed a prejudice. I'm sorry.

If I find out someone is bipolar, I walk away. Goodbye, adiós, see ya, and good luck. I do not ever want to even be in the same room or the same neighborhood, or even talk to a bipolar on the telephone from a different city, medication or not. They are a timebomb. The question is not 'if' but 'when' will they explode.

It was extremely painful to endure.

 

Perhaps I should list fear of bipolars along with flying as one of my irrational fears in the other thread

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Greydon should be

Greydon should be prosecuted. It's obvious he's a danger to himself and others as long as he's refusing to take his meds. If he wont monitor himself, then  he should be put into custodial care of the state. That's just my opinion though.

Brian I'm sorry I wasn't there. I would have tried my best to get him off of you even if it meant taking a few shots myself for you. You don't deserve that shit.

Oh, and your next three prayers are granted preprayer.

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Bipolar or any other form of

Bipolar or any other form of depression does not make you violent against others (it can make you self destructive) and I'm a little concerned that this is giving a bad reputation to suffers

There are a few mental illnesses that can cause violence but in the majority of cases violent people are just bad people.


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The majority of manic

The majority of manic depressive people won't get violent - however from the description he sounds like he's at the psychotic level of the disorder - based on his irrational behavior and delusional beliefs. They can get violent. Remember - psychotic basically means someone is at the point in a mental illness that they are out of touch with reality. I myself suffer from major depression (no manic phase.) In his case someone that cares about him needs to be watching him - in fact being n jail might be better - because if he goes into a depressive phase he's likely to be suicidal - and that one song "Dear Journal" indicates he has been in the past.

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Sheesh! I had no idea

Sheesh! I had no idea Greydon was hiding this aspect of himself...

Deepest sympathy to you Brian.

My first reaction to the minimal account of what happened was to feel some sympathy for Greydon as a victim of a mental disorder, but as the account has filled out, I find it all but impossible to feel any respect for him.

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I'll absolutely add to the

I'll absolutely add to the best wishes for your recovery.

There's no justification for violence no matter what the perceived wrongs. Even if everything he claimed was true, there is still no justification for what sounds like a very serious assault.

I will add my wishes that the physical and mental trauma leave no scars and that you and your family can put it in the past at the earliest moment.


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aiia wrote:The question is

aiia wrote:

The question is not 'if' but 'when' will they explode.


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People have

People have misunderstandings and conflicts, but there is no excuse for things degenerating to violence like that. 

However, I wouldn't go so far as to use Greydon as the poster child for bipolar disorder and imply that all people suffering from such ailments are prone to violence.

I would point out that there's another serious problem looming on the horizon that is affecting people like him who have served in the armed forces: Post Traumatic Stress Disorder.  Not that I have any clue what is happening with him, but PTSD is another issue that I wouldn't be surprised if it was a factor. 

In any case, this is a sucky thing to have gone down.  I hope it resolves itself in a way that everyone can live with.

 


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Nordmann wrote:"God Bedring"

Nordmann wrote:

"God Bedring" Brian, as they say here in Norway. Sounds very religious but it just means "get well soon".

Seconded. Unfortunate that the Norwegian word for "good" is "god" (drives a bilingual atheist Norwegian nuts, let me tell you). But that fact that it's pronounced "goo" is kind of fun.

Hope you're mending.

Add to "to do" list:

Find a good atheist rapper who does not require medication. 

Nobody I know was brainwashed into being an atheist.

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geirj wrote:Find a good

geirj wrote:

Find a good atheist rapper who does not require medication. 

 

Proclaim.

 

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Now that I know what

Now that I know what happened, you can throw my best wishes, thoughts, and prayers to both Jake and the FSM in to the ring too.  Best of luck with the recovery Sapient.

I've never understood why people start refusing to take meds, even if they are artists and their creativity gets affected.  The downside in almost all situations I've come across (including ones that don't end up in situations like this) still don't seem worth it to me yet by the time the person gets back on the meds they've formed other rationalisations which make them not see the real affects that everyone around them sees of being off the meds.  It makes it that much easier for them to convince themself next time to stop taking them etc and turns it in to a recurring circle.  The sooner he gets back on them to realise what he's done the better. 

I hadn't bought any Greydon CD's in the past because the music just isn't my style.  It's something I probably wouldn't even listen to once, so I never bothered with the purchase.  May as well make a donation via another form as I've done via the gold membership.

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Syqnys isn't bad,

Syqnys isn't bad, although I'm not aware of his medication status:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=awSnPBIhklo

Sorry to hear about your misfortune, Brian. I hope Greydon can straighten himself out. I'm mostly a lurker around here but wanted to wish you a speedy recovery.


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geirj wrote:Nordmann

geirj wrote:

Nordmann wrote:

"God Bedring" Brian, as they say here in Norway. Sounds very religious but it just means "get well soon".

Seconded. Unfortunate that the Norwegian word for "good" is "god" (drives a bilingual atheist Norwegian nuts, let me tell you). But that fact that it's pronounced "goo" is kind of fun.

Hope you're mending.

Add to "to do" list:

Find a good atheist rapper who does not require medication. 

 

Our vote is Syqnys.  Proclaim is great as well.  However both artists work harder on their real life careers as opposed to their rap careers.  Proclaim and Syqnys will likely be the biggest winners here.

 


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Wait you're in the

Wait you're in the hospital?

 

 


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Sapient wrote:- Greydon has

Sapient wrote:

- Greydon has not only displayed no remorse, but has stated that he took it easy on me, and has since begun harassing other RRS supporters

Now this pisses me off.  Hopefully, he will show remorse if he gets his head on straight, but Jesus! 

Brian, I am SO SORRY

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Cpt_pineapple wrote:Wait

Cpt_pineapple wrote:

Wait you're in the hospital?

 

 

 

He's out of the hospital now. 

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geirj wrote:Nordmann

geirj wrote:

Nordmann wrote:

"God Bedring" Brian, as they say here in Norway. Sounds very religious but it just means "get well soon".

Seconded. Unfortunate that the Norwegian word for "good" is "god" (drives a bilingual atheist Norwegian nuts, let me tell you). But that fact that it's pronounced "goo" is kind of fun.

Do you get this a lot?

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A møøse ønce bit my sister.

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Iruka Naminori wrote: Do

Iruka Naminori wrote:

 

Do you get this a lot?

Monty Python wrote:
A møøse ønce bit my sister.

I get this even more:

"Are you Swedish?"

No worse way to inflict pain on a Norwegian than implying Swedish ancestry. It's actually a capital offense when done intentionally.

Nobody I know was brainwashed into being an atheist.

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Wow, sorry to hear that

Wow, sorry to hear that Brian.  Hope you make a full recovery. 


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geirj wrote:No worse way to

geirj wrote:
No worse way to inflict pain on a Norwegian than implying Swedish ancestry. It's actually a capital offense when done intentionally.

For a Swede, the reverse is this is true.


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KSMB wrote:geirj wrote:No

KSMB wrote:

geirj wrote:
No worse way to inflict pain on a Norwegian than implying Swedish ancestry. It's actually a capital offense when done intentionally.

For a Swede, the reverse is this is true.

 

Yes, so we have heard in Norway too - in Sweden it's an offense not to accuse a person of being in some way Norwegian.

 

But seriously folks - for a bunch of so-called atheists I've never seen so many people "praying" for a guy's recovery before. Jake or Jesus - who cares - but aren't we all beyond sending entreaties out into the ether hoping some invisible friend will lend a hand? Either tell the guy you hope he gets well soon, or if it's the Greydon lad tell him he's a piece of worthless crap, but cut the praying out, please. It's causing a stink in here. 

 

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Nordmann wrote:But seriously

Nordmann wrote:

But seriously folks - for a bunch of so-called atheists I've never seen so many people "praying" for a guy's recovery before. Jake or Jesus - who cares - but aren't we all beyond sending entreaties out into the ether hoping some invisible friend will lend a hand? Either tell the guy you hope he gets well soon, or if it's the Greydon lad tell him he's a piece of worthless crap, but cut the praying out, please. It's causing a stink in here. 

Jake is not invisible.

Are you unaware of www.prayerstojake.com?  It's a joke.  Lighten up a little.

And as far as attacking Greydon and calling him a piece of crap...well I'd like to tug back on the reigns here a little.  Of course we are all greatly dissapointed in Greydon in several different ways.  What he did to Brian could never be justified.

However, I don't think going rabid on him is the appropriate response.  Better to just shun him and let him either rely on his friends to get help and get a grip or just watch him slowly destroy himself.  I for one hopes that he has some friends that can teach him how bad he screwed up and encourage him to get his act together.

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Watcher wrote:Nordmann

Watcher wrote:

Nordmann wrote:

But seriously folks - for a bunch of so-called atheists I've never seen so many people "praying" for a guy's recovery before. Jake or Jesus - who cares - but aren't we all beyond sending entreaties out into the ether hoping some invisible friend will lend a hand? Either tell the guy you hope he gets well soon, or if it's the Greydon lad tell him he's a piece of worthless crap, but cut the praying out, please. It's causing a stink in here. 

Jake is not invisible.

Are you unaware of www.prayerstojake.com?  It's a joke.  Lighten up a little.

And as far as attacking Greydon and calling him a piece of crap...well I'd like to tug back on the reigns here a little.  Of course we are all greatly dissapointed in Greydon in several different ways.  What he did to Brian could never be justified.

However, I don't think going rabid on him is the appropriate response.  Better to just shun him and let him either rely on his friends to get help and get a grip or just watch him slowly destroy himself.  I for one hopes that he has some friends that can teach him how bad he screwed up and encourage him to get his act together.

 

I second your remarks. In my past I interacted with a bipolar person who, too often, didn't take her meds. She was a really good person on the meds, but off the meds she did some horrible stuff (neglected her baby, hurt herself and was violent when she thought she was being provoked). I don't think he is necessarily a bad person and might have a few compounded issues.

Isn't the number one emotion that causes violence in apes the feeling of not being treated fairly, or being cheated, whether it is true or not?

I am not justifying what happened though. I believe he should be held accountable because he made the conscious choice to not take his medications and that resulted in a horrible situation. Hope your healing well brian, I know what it's like to get your face busted up. Been fighting for years and have got many cuts on my face. All of mine healed perfectly though, so I am guessing yours will too. Anyways, goodluck.

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Kevin R Brown wrote:Brian

Kevin R Brown wrote:

Brian and a number of other people from the RRS were at a secular humanist convention in the Washington District of Columbia. Greydon Square was there to both promote his CD and simply be another atheistic representative.

Greydon is, as I understand it, bipolar - and was not taking his medication. He confronted Brian at the convention over a paranoid delusion he'd developed as a result, regarding the CDs that Brian and bought and was selling at the convention (feeling that he was somehow being taken advantage of, regardless of the fact that these were CDs Brian had already paid Greydon for), and psychotically attacked and attempted to beat Brian to death (nearly succeeding in the endeavor).

 

Brian explained this story to the best of his ability to as many people as possible on Stickam, just after getting out of the hospital. He looked like he'd been hit by a truck.

To say the least, Greydon's in prison right now, charges are pending.

 

Such a waste.

 

Thanks for clearing up the confusion, Kevin.

 

Brian- I am so sorry to hear about this, it's almost unbelievable. I hope your recovery goes alright, and Greydon's too. This is really a tragedy, but I hope we as a community and a movement can get beyond it in the months to come.

“It is true that in the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king. It is equally true that in the land of the blind, the two-eyed man is an enemy of the state, the people, and domestic tranquility… and necessarily so. Someone has to rearrange the furniture.”


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MattShizzle wrote:geirj

MattShizzle wrote:

geirj wrote:

Find a good atheist rapper who does not require medication. 

 

Proclaim. 

You see even atheists can have a mental disorder.  Ever think what atheists would do before meds even existed?  To say someone who flips out to: "Go back on your meds" is a flippant remark that might even aggravate the mentally challenged.

Scientists don't know too much how the brain works in bi-polar cases.  The brain is like a giant DNA computer with neurotransmitters running all along the neurons.  You need an emphathetic individual who understands what a bi-polar person is going through and that takes experience.  Every bi-polar person may be different - different triggers like personal insults can make them flip, some bipolars have "rapid cyclying" in which a person can suddenly flip when everything seems normal.

They bi-polars that I knew didn't take any meds except for illegal drugs.  The hard drugs can make bi-polars go even more crazy, but pot seems to mellow the ones I knew.

I don't even know what a psychologist prescribes nowadays.  It probably won't help much anyways.  The real therapeatic drugs were the psychoactives like LSD, psylocibin back in the 50s-60s where they would give mentally ill patient doses of psychoactives and by anecdotal evidence many have had therapuetic effects.  Here's one story:

I have many experiences I could share that to me are amazing and entertaining, but that is not the reason for what I'm sharing here.
I wish to express the symptomatic relief that mushrooms gave me from depression, social anxiety, panic attacks, manias, and alcoholism. I have spent most of the last 17 years taking trials of medications that psychiatrists prescribed to me with mixed and disastrous results. It was coincidental that acquaintences of mine offered me mushrooms at a party. (I was not taking meds at this time.)

Someone at the party produced a large bag of mushrooms he 'claimed' weighed about 30lbs. He also claimed that he stole them from a biology lab at his local Colorado college where fungicides were being tested. He alleges the growing process made them extremely potent for clinical purposes. The mushrooms were of different sizes and colors. The small baby ones were dark blue and juicy. The large ones were dry like ashes and golden in color with large caps.

That night I was apprehensive, so it took about six beers before I was disinhibited enough to even consider trying the shrooms. The atmosphere was alcohol induced giddiness, and the peer group was of low emotional and intellectual evolution. They prodded me a lot, since I have bad reactions to pot I was scared of getting the paranoias and anxiety, I knew nothing about mushrooms at the time. I did my own literary research afterward. I was definitely curious.

I finally broke down and ate about six of them, some small and some large. I think someone with a scale told me they weighed about 4 to 6 grams total. What followed was the most beautiful experience of my life. I had multi-dimensional visions, and I was tranported to other
places. I heard beautiful music, and felt a strong connection to the other guests, the universe, and some interpretation of 'God' being in me and everywhere around me in different abstract forms.

Needless to say I enjoyed the experience and repeated it again a handful of times over the next year or two. What I find most profound is that the experience changed me on multiple levels in my life while not under the influence of the shrooms. My symptoms of mental illness disappeared for several years afterward. I was constantly full of energy, and I spoke to people I previously would have found unapproachable or uninteresting. I became fully involved with life, and enjoyed things I never would have considered before. I slept normally, had no depression or panic attacks, etc. What is most amazing is this relief lasted long after the sessions ended. I found I did not enjoy sessions where the atmosphere was party like or the people were just trying to get a 'buzz'. I would prefer to retreat with one other person where I could enjoy the experience in a mutually interactive way, or just drift quietly. I don't recall if I ever did a session alone. Another interesting fact is that my concentration improved and I was better at tasks that require careful attention.

I suspect my psycho-illness symptoms result from a mixture of biological predisposition (family history), and post-traumatic childhood violence and sexual abuse. I am just happy to share that mushrooms effectively relieved my suffering without daily taking pills with terrible mental and physical side-effects.


This was about 5 years ago and I haven't had any shrooms since. I have regressed slowly to my previous state, with some degenerative symptoms. I am diagnosed with bipolar affective disorder with rapid cycling, panic disorder, and post traumatic stress. I think the trials of psych-meds have damaged my thought processes and I continue to feel degenerative effects. It is really sad that the war on drugs halted the research of hallucinogens in the field of psychotherapy. I truly believe a medical miracle is being supressed. Can anyone else relate to this?

I am afraid to try eating shrooms again because Paxil and loads of other meds I don't take anymore have left my brain chemistry terribly imbalanced. I am also physically dependent on oxycodone and hydrocodone opoids I take for pain and depression. Are there medical contraindications for mixing these with mushrooms? I am also contemplating getting on Methadone maintenance to balance out the mood swings the pain-pills induce and avoid the withdrawals they cause. If I am making a mistake it is mine to learn.

Good luck to people out there seeking enlightenment through hallucinogens. Maybe we will live to see the day when the war on drugs eases up and medicine will use our planets precious resources to heal our minds and bodies.

http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=4855

But you see a "real" doctor wouldn't prescribe shrooms for mental disorders.  Yeah medicine that grows on cow shit. tsk-tsk

-RR


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Sorry to hear that, hope you

Sorry to hear that, hope you are recovering well Sapient.

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deezamn!

yo Brian, that's some fucked up shit! I feel for you mang and will always be a proud member of RRS.

Let me know if you want to sell some cds for me...I promise not to attack you over it, word up...

preace bro,

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So it looks like Greydon

So it looks like Greydon Square is getting the official snub.  This is how Christians do it to one of their own - excommunication. 

Instead of making a good example and offering rehabilitation and reconciliation...this is what:  get your own shit together and don't come back to talk to us until you do?


Now I'd think atheists can be on a higher moral ground and prove that they are better than christians in the way they treat their own kind.

-RR