Atheism the easy way out?

Redemption
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Atheism the easy way out?

After skimming most of the front page articles it seems to me that most of the posts here are not about having a debate but rather how Christianity in general is wrong. It is  intriguing that there is a crusade for free thinking but this organization is not reaching out to people being held under Sharia Law in the the Middle East, and trying to see them set free from the hand of an even greater tyrant of a God than some seem to believe Jehovah is, or liberating people of tribal religions from cannablism and warfare. I would like to come in contact with the people who really want a debate and would base their information on logic rather than a deep rooted fear, hurt, or anger at Christianity. If you haven't guessed I am a Pentecostal believer in the Ressurection of Jesus Christ and have faith in the atoning blood that was shed on Calvary. I am not here to be converted or to convert others, but to simply fulfill the command to "preach the gospel to every creature". God bless and look forward to reading your comments.


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Redemption wrote: I would

Redemption wrote:

 I would like to come in contact with the people who really want a debate and would base their information on logic

That canard has been debunked ad nauseum on here, recently.

Calling a slew of presuppositions, 'logic', to argue that gods exist, and as a reason people should absolutely agree on moral 'right/wrong' is simply inane, and intellectually dishonest, and begs the question.

And forget about trying the 'logical absolutes' TAG tactic.

That's a no go around here, too.

 

You believe in gods? Fine.

Just answer the simple question, why anyone else would need to...

 

I keep asking myself " Are they just playin' stupid, or are they just plain stupid?..."

"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy" : David Brooks

" Only on the subject of God can smart people still imagine that they reap the fruits of human intelligence even as they plow them under." : Sam Harris


Redemption
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As I said I am not here to

As I said I am not here to convert or to be converted I just want to have a discussion where I can present my beliefs in a level-headed manner and the people responding can counter with their beliefs with the same degree of respect.

No where in my Bible does it say that I have to beat you over the head with scripture and force you to believe that is going to be your choice but in Ezekiel I as a believer am warned that if I do not warn my brother of the coming judgment your blood will be on my hands.

I want to enter into a discussion rather than debate to better understand my counterparts. I promise to play nice and not force anything on anyone, but I would ask the freedom to be free from your presuppositions just like you have the freedom to not be subjected to mine.

The answer to your question is that everyone needs something to believe in, whether it is the Christian God, science, or Buddha I just happen to believe that Jesus Christ is the truth and would like to share the peace I have in the hope I will be rewarded in the afterlife.


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I can debate you. I think I

I can debate you. I think I fit the criteria as I think religion should be judged on it's own merits, rather than on what the believers do or don't do.

 

 


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 Boy, if you think we are

 

Boy, if you think we are that one dimensional, then you don't know us very well. For the most part, people around here don't find much point wasting time trying to debunk the magic god sperm arguments as they really are far less sensible than the wholly insensible crap like TAG and Kalam.

 

That and yes, we are concerned about the crap which is happening in other cultures where our reach is just not what it should be. Which is really a major point. There is very little which we can do to affect the fact that in central Africa, the missionaries are murdering small children every day out of the belief that they are practicing witches. However, since the internet does not yet reach into those areas, there is little that we can do to get our message out there.

 

Cannibalism? Seriously?

 

You do realize that that has been very heavily studied and we know that it is really rare that it becomes a widespread practice. On the rare occasion that such has happened, diseases that would not normally transfer from one person to another tend to emerge but only among the people who actually eat other people. Those who do not engage in the deal tend to be safe from such things as Kuru (laughing sickness) and CJD (human equivalent of mad cow).

 

Since you claim to be a pentecostal, I would ask this: Do you dance around holding immature snakes of varieties known to have fairly weak venom? Would you be willing to do that with a huge Texas rattler with a powerful neurotoxic venom?

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Never ever did I say enything about free, I said "free."

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Redemption
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First the reference to

First the reference to snakes because it made me laugh is totally taken out of context and any practice of wilfully being bitten by snakes if not under the inspiration of God is unbiblical. The ability to "take up" serpents in this context means to kill or do away with and as I am sure you are aware that the goal of any true Christian is to live a life free of evil and sin. When you think about Satan he is associated most closely with the snake therefore in Mark 16 we are told that we have power to "take up" or rid ourselves and others of evil. In short, No I do not dance with snakes.

I used cannabalism as a talking point to pique intrest, I dont actually expect your organization to have a cannibal awareness forum. I would like to get to the bottom of why I see more Christ is bad than Mohammed is bad or Buddha is bad.

I honestly think that everyone here has thought out their decision to follow, or not follow the god of their choice. It is something that every person must come to terms with in their own way. I do however want to get to the bottom of my original question which was the reason you chose not to follow anything.

And as for the question of me trying to prove the "magic god sperm" argument, I never mentioned anything about that and do not see how it is relevant to me wanting to discuss personal infliuences that led to atheism. Additionaly I would like a link to a reputable news story of a Christian missionary killing potential converts for being witches that has happened in the last 20 years.


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 Sounds like you need to

 Sounds like you need to post into the 'kill them with kindness' or irrationalities'.  If you just want to preach, you're probably in the wrong forum all together.  Since this is not the 'kill them with kindness' and you assume we all base our information on 

Quote:

deep rooted fear, hurt, or anger at Christianity

than go fuck yourself!  You're a deluded idiot that comes here to preach that we're illogical since we don't believe in an ancient superstition.  

Ok, that's out of the way...  

Welcome to the forum! come troll around and have fun.

"Don't seek these laws to understand. Only the mad can comprehend..." -- George Cosbuc


Redemption
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Thanks for the compassionate

Thanks for the compassionate atheist welcome! I appreciate the insight and would love to follow the rules so move the thread if we must.


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Some points for you to think

Some points for you to think on, Redemption.

1. The RRS is based in America. Therefore, the major arguments are going to be against Christianity as it is practiced in America. Incidentally, that is probably why you became a Christian - you were born here.

2. I don't see Allah as being more tyrannical than Yahweh. The holy books of those religions reveal them both to be despots.

3. A fear of or anger at Christianity? For myself, I have neither fear nor anger at a being whose reality has not been established. I do find it ironic that you are accusing me of having what you apparently have towards Islam.

4. I know this goes against your stated intention but I would appreciate if you at least read and think about what is put before you.

5. So you are here not because you actually care for our welfare and you're just racking up brownie points for the afterlife? Kudos to you for honesty.

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


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Welcome to the

Welcome to the forum.

Redemption wrote:
It is  intriguing that there is a crusade for free thinking but this organization is not reaching out to people being held under Sharia Law in the the Middle East, and trying to see them set free from the hand of an even greater tyrant of a God than some seem to believe Jehovah is, or liberating people of tribal religions from cannablism and warfare.

It's just an online forum, man. What do you expect us to do?

Redemption wrote:
I would like to come in contact with the people who really want a debate and would base their information on logic rather than a deep rooted fear, hurt, or anger at Christianity.

Imo, that description would fit many if not most of the posters here. Although, I would say, base their information on 'evidence' rather than 'logic.' Logic, by itself, cannot grant us any genuinely new knowledge, only what already implicit in our current pool of knowledge. Premises which are not from that pool would need to be justified by referring to reality.

Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare


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I thank you for being civil

I thank you for being civil and presenting your points clearly Jcgadfly.

I understand that this is based in America and the predominate religion is Christianity. I became a Christian after a series of events both good and bad unfolded in my life. I have completly read a translated Qu'ran as well as The Bible and from what I could tell there was destruction done in the name of the God of both books and sometimes by the God himself. However I found that behind the word of The Bible there was inspiration that tugged at me and made me want to live in a morally stronger state than I was currently living in.

I don't neccessarily see Allah as being tyrannical I just do not see the compassion that the God of Israel shows in the later Old Testament and all throughout the New Testament. I used tyrannical because I was seeing Yahweh being cast as the dictator of the cosmos who destroyed things for no reason.

I have no ill feelings towards Islam or Muslims, you are correct I am from rural Arkansas and I do not fully understand the culture yet I do understand the book that inspires them. I do not mean to accuse anyone so I apologize for you having that feeling.


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Redemption wrote:I thank you

Redemption wrote:

I thank you for being civil and presenting your points clearly Jcgadfly.

I understand that this is based in America and the predominate religion is Christianity. I became a Christian after a series of events both good and bad unfolded in my life. I have completly read a translated Qu'ran as well as The Bible and from what I could tell there was destruction done in the name of the God of both books and sometimes by the God himself. However I found that behind the word of The Bible there was inspiration that tugged at me and made me want to live in a morally stronger state than I was currently living in.

I don't neccessarily see Allah as being tyrannical I just do not see the compassion that the God of Israel shows in the later Old Testament and all throughout the New Testament. I used tyrannical because I was seeing Yahweh being cast as the dictator of the cosmos who destroyed things for no reason.

I have no ill feelings towards Islam or Muslims, you are correct I am from rural Arkansas and I do not fully understand the culture yet I do understand the book that inspires them. I do not mean to accuse anyone so I apologize for you having that feeling.

1. My tendency is to think that the "inspiration" you mention is more from cultural training than divine intervention. That, however, is only my suspicion based on my own experiences.

2. I don't see the compassion that the "God of Israel" shows in the later OT and the NT. I read through the Bible and I believe that there are at least three gods being described because they are so different.

3. I didn't say you had ill will toward Muslims. You claimed that most of us had a fear, deep hurt or anger towards Christianity. Why do you think you are excluded from having at least one of those feelings towards Islam?

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


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Please go straight to your

Please go straight to your hell with your preaching. I don't buy into propaganda from anybody.


Redemption
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1. I believe that The Bible

1. I believe that The Bible is the inspired word of God penned by men who were under the influence of the Holy Ghost, and this is my speculation so I do not expect you to believe me but simply to allow me to have the freedom to choose what I believe.

2. In Jeremiah 16:16 which some believe Hitler used as an excuse to hunt and kill Jews has a deeper meaning that he is going to send fishers and hunters out to find the remnants of the Jews and to show them the redemptive love of God. The Bible is not all cut and dried, with each scripture having just one meaning but can be interpreted in many different ways and they all be correct!

3. You insinuated that I had the same fear, hurt, and anger towards Islam as some athiests have towards Christianity. If this is not the general consensus I have faulty information and the athiests I have had conversations with in the past are not very good representatives of the athiest community. I apologize again for generalizing the atheist community already I have had some questions answered about what is believed by some of the responses in this thread alone.


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Redemption wrote:1. I

Redemption wrote:

1. I believe that The Bible is the inspired word of God penned by men who were under the influence of the Holy Ghost, and this is my speculation so I do not expect you to believe me but simply to allow me to have the freedom to choose what I believe.

2. In Jeremiah 16:16 which some believe Hitler used as an excuse to hunt and kill Jews has a deeper meaning that he is going to send fishers and hunters out to find the remnants of the Jews and to show them the redemptive love of God. The Bible is not all cut and dried, with each scripture having just one meaning but can be interpreted in many different ways and they all be correct!

3. You insinuated that I had the same fear, hurt, and anger towards Islam as some athiests have towards Christianity. If this is not the general consensus I have faulty information and the athiests I have had conversations with in the past are not very good representatives of the athiest community. I apologize again for generalizing the atheist community already I have had some questions answered about what is believed by some of the responses in this thread alone.

1. I have no intention of keeping you from believing what you wish. As I recall, atheists aren't the ones writing legislation imposing their views on others.

2. Some believe Hitler used that passage as an excuse. Some (John Hagee comes to mind) believe that Hitler was acting as an agent of God. What parts of the Bible do you believe and what parts do you not take seriously?

3. We don't really have an "atheist community" in the sense you mean (everyone adhering to a certain set of beliefs about the world). Wer're all pretty individualistic.

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


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Redemption wrote:I just want

Redemption wrote:

I just want to have a discussion where I can present my beliefs in a level-headed manner

Then you would need to be level headed to begin with. But, as a theist, you cannot possibly be. You would need to be 'equal' to us.

Atheists are people who are 'neutral', on the topic of god myths. We're indifferent as to whether they could possibly exist. It's a non starter, as far as internal dialogue.

Redemption wrote:
and the people responding can counter with their beliefs with the same degree of respect.

Beliefs on what?

Things other than what you imagine exist?

Sure. Pick a topic.

Redemption wrote:
No where in my Bible does it say that I have to beat you over the head with scripture and force you to believe that is going to be your choice but in Ezekiel I as a believer am warned that if I do not warn my brother of the coming judgment your blood will be on my hands.

Well, that's the positively disturbing part about you people.

You're living out the fantasy in a piece of literature, that's a composite of forgeries, and you think it's reality, and you cannot distinguish yourself from all the batshit crazy people who live out the different fantasies of literature that would completely contradict yours from being reality.

Redemption wrote:
 I want to enter into a discussion rather than debate to better understand my counterparts.

Sure.

We understand that you've swallowed hook, line, and sinker, an extraordinary fantasy, with no evidence, and the question is, why you think that anyone else should as well, instead of think it's batshit crazy talk.

Redemption wrote:
 I promise to play nice and not force anything on anyone, but I would ask the freedom to be free from your presuppositions

Well, you're being an idiot, because you don't even comprehend that it's a lack of evidence, not a presupposition, that makes us neutral, on the topic.

I don't know any atheists who actually are arrogant enough to think they could prove/disprove a negative claim, with the knowledge we currently have.

Redemption wrote:
 ...just like you have the freedom to not be subjected to mine.

That's a non sequitur

If we had the freedom to not be subjected to yours, why did you try and upset that by coming here?

Redemption wrote:
I just happen to believe that Jesus Christ is the truth

Well, a couple of things.

1- There's only a myth about a character named Jesus Christ, that was ripped off from some other folklores.

2- Saying someone is 'true' because they exist, is a category error, and is cognitively dissonant.

3- What you believe, is neither here /nor there.

4- Why should another person presuppose what you do?

Redemption wrote:
...and would like to share the peace I have in the hope I will be rewarded in the afterlife.

Now you contradict your earlier statements, and clearly demonstrate that you not only lie, but have no respect for others' freedoms.

Redemption wrote:
 ... you have the freedom to not be subjected to mine.

Redemption wrote:
...same degree of respect.

Do you see me taking it upon myself to crash Christian forums warning my 'brothers' of the dangers of their 'beliefs'?

Redemption wrote:
 the athiests I have had conversations with in the past are not very good representatives of the athiest community.

That's your problem that you are that ignorant.

There is no atheist community.

We're all individuals.

Skeptics.

No one person represents the other.

How come you people can't understand such a simple fucking concept of reality???

 

You ignorant, delusion, arrogant, hypocritical, lying POS.

Just go fuck yourself...

 

I keep asking myself " Are they just playin' stupid, or are they just plain stupid?..."

"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy" : David Brooks

" Only on the subject of God can smart people still imagine that they reap the fruits of human intelligence even as they plow them under." : Sam Harris


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Redemption wrote:1. I

Redemption wrote:

1. I believe that The Bible is the inspired word of God penned by men who were under the influence of the Holy Ghost, and this is my speculation so I do not expect you to believe me but simply to allow me to have the freedom to choose what I believe.

Hello, I have a few questions about this.  If you have the time please answer some of them.  

Why do you believe what you believe?  What do you feel is a valid reason to believe somethings?  How would someone take away your freedom to believe what you want to believe?  When talking about people taking away your freedom to choose are you talking about force or just words?  Do you think that people want to use force to make you change your beliefs?   If so what people and why?


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welcome @op

1.  I don't believe in god/s/dess because there is no evidence for her/him/it/them.  "I feel good about my religion" is not evidence. 

2. One of the reasons I left christianity - I have been a fairly regular church goer three different times in my life - is because their morals suck.  Yes, suck.  It is okay to be a married man with an unmarried mistress because he is not committing adultery - she may be, but that is her look out.  (Actual conversation with a catholic man.)  It is okay to take the towels, blankets, sheets, and anything else not locked down out of a motel room because they want you to take it.  (Actual conversation with a pentecostal woman.)  You don't need to offer retribution to compensate the victims of your actions, you only need to pray for forgiveness.  It is okay to kill when you think it is okay - unless you are a Quaker.  You buy a weapon, ammunition for that weapon, and then keep it around the house for the express purpose of shooting a stranger.  Just how premeditated is that?  I would have no problem with this, but how does it fit in with "Thou shalt not kill"?  Which doesn't have clauses about "self defense", "national defense" and so on.  And how many devout christians have stashes of weapons intended for killing other people, not deer or grizzlies?

You want to be more moral - just what is stopping you from being more moral by choosing to be so?

3. I can work myself up to being angry at religion and/or god/s/dess, but it is not my normal state.  I left the church for a lot of reasons other than anger or hurt and I have never been afraid of church or religion.  I don't get why someone would leave religion and belief in god/s/dess because of fear.  It is usually someone trying to convince me to go to church for fear of hellfire. 

http://www.twainquotes.com/Hell.html wrote:

Dying man couldn't make up his mind which place to go to -- both have their advantages, "heaven for climate, hell for company!"
- Mark Twain's Notebooks and Journals, vol. 3

 

I recommend 50 Reasons People Give for Believing in a God by by Guy P. Harrison

 

Mr. Harrison details refutations for each stated belief.  I happen to agree with every one of them.

 

 

-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.

"We are entitled to our own opinions. We're not entitled to our own facts"- Al Franken

"If death isn't sweet oblivion, I will be severely disappointed" - Ruth M.


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Hi.Participating in this

Hi.

Participating in this forum in no way means that those who wish to, and have the means and time to, would not be also doing what they could to help free others from the tyranny of other religions across the world. Why would you assume  it would exclude actual 'reaching out'?

If people being oppressed in other places can find this forum and post here, we can help assure them that there are others who don't buy into the profoundly illogical, and in many cases, evil, nonsense that is religion.

We have sympathy for those oppressed by worldly self-righteous dictators, as well those under the sway of mythical ones like Yahweh, Allah, and their ilk.

The Garden of Eden story provides an allegorical model for every earthly dictator demanding absolute obedience to his commands, under threat of completely disproportionate punishment, not only to the disobedient, but to all their descendants. The Book generally endorses the authoritarian model of worldly government, of kings and caesars.

And we would like to free them from superstitions, such as the belief in the power of blood to appease the angry God(s). And the idea that such a thing can 'cleanse' them, even of the burden of guilt they have for acts committed against third parties. To label such a thing 'atonement' I find offensive.

We do tend to need stories, narratives, to set ourselves in some context. We also like to have an explanation of some sort for why things are as they seem.

We now have far better, grander, more consistent, more demonstrable, understandings of how the Universe came to be as it is, and far more understanding of our own nature and origins, than the ancient myths incorporated in the Bible and other religious writings.

We also have made much progress in understanding why we behave as we do, and coming up with moral guidelines which are in many ways superior to the primitive taboos and prejudices incorporated in the Bible. Biblical 'morality' mostly is basically a 'might makes right' model, rather than one based on consideration of actual harm and distress caused, or potentially caused, to other people, and NOT just the members of our close family, our 'faith', or our nation.

Biblical morality is an obstacle to moral progress of any kind, tending to lock in place ancient concepts and prejudices.

We now explicitly condemn rape, slavery, and torture. We no longer regard women and 'servants' as property, as equivalent in that respect to the animals a person may own. Many of us no longer automatically and mindlessly condemn many things associated with reproduction, and our sexual urges.

We also appreciate that people can have very different emotional needs and urges, and as long as they don't oppress or harm others, or disrupt society without good reason, we allow them to live their lives the way they wish.

My personal committment is to the honest search for Truth, to the extent that we can glimpse it, starting from the absolute minimum, the simplest, set of initial assumptions, and be prepared to revise even those basic assumptions, if the study of Reality suggests that there are better working assumptions, more in accord with "What IS", and/or more effective at allowing us to understand and investigate reality.

Religious beliefs are the 'easy way', not requiring you to come to terms with, to really understand, the complexity of reality, why it has some very harsh aspects, why 'bad things happen to good people', and honestly face the reality of our finite life, that it will end. Providing such easy answers is why religions spread.

Discarding the simplistic and often comforting ideas of religion means we are obliged to come to terms with the fact that there are going to be those who don't see the world the way we do, and to not automatically condemn them without some objective justification.

Just some thoughts....

 

Favorite oxymorons: Gospel Truth, Rational Supernaturalist, Business Ethics, Christian Morality

"Theology is now little more than a branch of human ignorance. Indeed, it is ignorance with wings." - Sam Harris

The path to Truth lies via careful study of reality, not the dreams of our fallible minds - me

From the sublime to the ridiculous: Science -> Philosophy -> Theology


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Atheist Mindset

redneF wrote:

You ignorant, delusion, arrogant, hypocritical, lying POS.

Just go fuck yourself...

*sniffle* I loves redneF

Welcome to the boards OP and I would wish you the best of luck in accomplishing your agenda but, to be honest, your agenda sounds pretty obnoxious to me. You want to spread the word so your god character will give you milk and cookies for all time once your poor broken body is worm food? Would it be possible to not do that and just say we did?

If you want to have a discussion about it you came to the right place.

If you want to have a civil discussion about it you need to go to kill them with kindness (redneF sets off alarms when he goes in there so you are safe)

If you want a place to preach from... dude, you are in *the* worst possible place to do that. Unless you want to be abused by people who think what you are saying is beyond idiotic you might pick a different Internet location for that kind of thing.

Either way, you seem like a nice enough fellow and I hope that you are one of the people who doesn't use their doctrine to harm other people. If you are, then I would like to request you spend your time policing your religious fellows... not recruiting new members. Your organization is filled to the brim with selfish scumbags who all think they have the personal endorsement of the Universe Creator - that's a real freakin' problem man. If you believe in the god junk and you care about humanity AT ALL your time would be much better spent lecturing your own kind... not ours.

Best of luck dude, I think you are in for a beating.


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 Yeah AtheistExtremist, why

 Yeah AtheistExtremist, why don't you ever post news stories about the horrors committed by muslims? Your always picking on the Christi..... oh wait... you do? Almost every day?  I mean why don't you ever pick on people who believe in Snarkwargles? They are just as crazy as those Christians. I've never seen you post about snarkwargles! Discrimination!

 

Dear OP, try reading a little bit of the site before making random accusations, it doesn't paint you in a good light. If you have researched the site and came to the conclusion that we only pick on Christians....well that explains why you are Christian. We pick on all irrationality here, sometimes even our own. Read a bit more and welcome to the forum.

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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Quote:not about having a

Quote:
not about having a debate but rather how Christianity in general is wrong.

There really is no debate. There are simply people who want their pet gods to be real. No different than any other god belief, polytheistic or monotheistic, past or present.

Christianity started in a scientifically ignorant age and was merely a spin off the Hebrew cult which was a spin off of the polytheistic Yahweh cult of the polytheistic Canaanites.

The "debate" rages in modern society much like the "debate" Galileo had to unfortunately endure because most of the population of his time wanted to believe the earth was flat and that the sun rotated around the earth.

Christianity is wrong on so many levels, most importantly scientifically.

FACT, it takes TWO sets of DNA to manifest into a zygote, thus making the godsperm theory of virgin births absurd.

FACT, human flesh does not survive rigor mortis, thus making zombie god claims absurd.

The fact that a myth is still popular does not constitute a debate, it merely means most people are not willing to give up on tradition.

You don't buy the most popular myth in Islam. It has the most members and they too would "debate" you to try to convince you that Allah is the one true god.

To us, Allah, Vishnu, Jesus and Thor are not up for debate other than the purpose of pulling humanity out of believing that the earth is flat.

Think about all the other deity concepts you reject and WHY you reject them. We simply reject one more deity than you do.

The debate exists just like Galileo had to make an effort to tell the truth that the earth rotated around the sun.

The concept of a magical super brain with magical super powers BY ANY NAME, is nothing but Santa for adults.

If you can accept that other people make up and believe in fictional gods, then all we ask is to apply that same logic in why you reject their claims, to your own claims.

 

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True

Beyond Saving wrote:

 Yeah AtheistExtremist, why don't you ever post news stories about the horrors committed by muslims? Your always picking on the Christi..... oh wait... you do? Almost every day?  I mean why don't you ever pick on people who believe in Snarkwargles? They are just as crazy as those Christians. I've never seen you post about snarkwargles! Discrimination!

 

Dear OP, try reading a little bit of the site before making random accusations, it doesn't paint you in a good light. If you have researched the site and came to the conclusion that we only pick on Christians....well that explains why you are Christian. We pick on all irrationality here, sometimes even our own. Read a bit more and welcome to the forum.

 

I thought my Islamophobia covered almost every one on the site with knobs on.

I think Redemption just wants the opportunitity to spell out his/her position without the usual adhom we get to after the snide threats of hell start appearing. So far Redemption seems a decent person and as a Pentecostal he/she is already being robbed blind and deceived by the personality cult/rock concert that constitutes their weekly worship.

Welcome to the site, Redemption. Just remember no one here believes you deserve to burn in a lake of fire and if any deity attempted to torture you we would tell it to go and get f**ked - unlike your brothers and sisters in christ who would rationalise you as a secret sinner and turn their backs on you in a trice. 

 

 

"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck


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Redemption wrote:After

Redemption wrote:

After skimming most of the front page articles it seems to me that most of the posts here are not about having a debate but rather how Christianity in general is wrong. It is  intriguing that there is a crusade for free thinking but this organization is not reaching out to people being held under Sharia Law in the the Middle East, and trying to see them set free from the hand of an even greater tyrant of a God than some seem to believe Jehovah is, or liberating people of tribal religions from cannablism and warfare. I would like to come in contact with the people who really want a debate and would base their information on logic rather than a deep rooted fear, hurt, or anger at Christianity. If you haven't guessed I am a Pentecostal believer in the Ressurection of Jesus Christ and have faith in the atoning blood that was shed on Calvary. I am not here to be converted or to convert others, but to simply fulfill the command to "preach the gospel to every creature". God bless and look forward to reading your comments.

  Your presence here is meaningless.  Your "godly" efforts will wither away as if you never existed, and you will soon be forgotten.  Enjoy your stay here.

"Most people are ass holes." Jesus of Nazareth


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Redemption, you should

Redemption, you should "preach the gospel to every creature." My I suggest you start with Australia's salt water crocodiles?


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Welcome

Redemption wrote:

After skimming most of the front page articles it seems to me that most of the posts here are not about having a debate but rather how Christianity in general is wrong. It is  intriguing that there is a crusade for free thinking but this organization is not reaching out to people being held under Sharia Law in the the Middle East, and trying to see them set free from the hand of an even greater tyrant of a God than some seem to believe Jehovah is, or liberating people of tribal religions from cannablism and warfare. I would like to come in contact with the people who really want a debate and would base their information on logic rather than a deep rooted fear, hurt, or anger at Christianity. If you haven't guessed I am a Pentecostal believer in the Ressurection of Jesus Christ and have faith in the atoning blood that was shed on Calvary. I am not here to be converted or to convert others, but to simply fulfill the command to "preach the gospel to every creature". God bless and look forward to reading your comments.

Welcome and enjoy your stay.

You might want to go beyond the front page articles, click on recent posts, on the left side menu for examples before forming your opinions.

You will find that many of us are ex-Christians and we may know all that you know if not more.

I'd agree that Sharia law is a bad thing. Any time religion is involved in the government it is a bad thing as the religion dominating the government forces its values and morals on others as laws. If you live in the US as a Christian you are involved in the same sort of activity. Perhaps we aren't executed for not conforming to your morals, but we most certainly are discriminated against. Think about how Christian views and morals are forced on others.

I was brought up by Lutheran parents, my mother had been a Lutheran school teacher and I attended 9 years of parochial school. I became Catholic when I married and have a graduate degree from a Jesuit University. I have extensively studied religions and ancient history. I became an atheist along the way.

I do understand where you are coming from in your interpretation of the Gospel command to go and teach all nations. I'm guilty of doing so a long time ago as well.

May the Sumerian god Lord Enki bless you with libations.

____________________________________________________________
"I guess it's time to ask if you live under high voltage power transmission lines which have been shown to cause stimulation of the fantasy centers of the brain due to electromagnetic waves?" - Me

"God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, - it says so right here on the label. If you have a mind capable of believing all three of these divine attributes simultaneously, I have a wonderful bargain for you. No checks please. Cash and in small bills." - Robert A Heinlein.


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redneF wrote:There is no

redneF wrote:

There is no atheist community.

 

 

except for the one in Austin.


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Redemption wrote:Additionaly

Redemption wrote:
Additionaly I would like a link to a reputable news story of a Christian missionary killing potential converts for being witches that has happened in the last 20 years.

 

 

http://www.religioustolerance.org/wic_afri.htm

 

Quote:

Ten farms have been set up in the Northern Province to hold hundreds of refugees who have been found guilty of witchcraft by traditionalist kangaroo courts and are in danger of being assassinated by mob action. 

The Congolese Human Rights Observatory recently announced that more than 60 people had been burned or buried alive in that country since 1990 - including 40 in 1996. The victims were accused, often by members of their own family, of being witches.

 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33356826/ns/world_news-africa/

 

Quote:

The 9-year-old boy lay on a bloodstained hospital sheet crawling with ants, staring blindly at the wall.

His family pastor had accused him of being a witch, and his father then tried to force acid down his throat as an exorcism. It spilled as he struggled, burning away his face and eyes. The emaciated boy barely had strength left to whisper the name of the church that had denounced him — Mount Zion Lighthouse.

A month later, he died.

 

http://www.independentworldreport.com/2010/04/witches-of-africa/

Quote:

Abigail was taken to a church by her father, for prayers. There, the prophet of God identified her as a witch. As her father drove her out of the house, Abigail lived on the streets for a while before someone brought her to the camp.

Godswill was taken to a church where a pastor said he was a wizard. After he was driven out his home, a police officer saw him and took him in for a few days before bringing him to the camp.

 

http://articles.cnn.com/2010-08-25/world/nigeria.child.witches_1_witches-godwin-orphanage?_s=PM:WORLD

 

Quote:
Pastors in southeast Nigeria claim illness and poverty are caused by witches who bring terrible misfortune to those around them. And those denounced as witches must be cleansed through deliverance or cast out.

As daylight breaks, and we travel out to the rural villages it becomes apparent the most vulnerable to this stigmatization of witchcraft are children.


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Ciarin wrote:redneF

Ciarin wrote:

redneF wrote:

There is no atheist community.

 

 

except for the one in Austin.

Are they a community that put their pants on one leg at a time?...

I keep asking myself " Are they just playin' stupid, or are they just plain stupid?..."

"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy" : David Brooks

" Only on the subject of God can smart people still imagine that they reap the fruits of human intelligence even as they plow them under." : Sam Harris


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redneF wrote:Ciarin

redneF wrote:

Ciarin wrote:

redneF wrote:

There is no atheist community.

 

 

except for the one in Austin.

Are they a community that put their pants on one leg at a time?...

 

You'll have to ask them: http://www.atheist-community.org/contact/

 

Also your use of elipses is incorrect.

 


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I missed this.

Redemption wrote:

I am a Pentecostal believer in the Ressurection of Jesus Christ and have faith in the atoning blood that was shed on Calvary.

 

And I think it's just adorable.

"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck


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Ciarin wrote: You'll have to

Ciarin wrote:
You'll have to ask them: http://www.atheist-community.org/contact/

Then I guess you really didn't have any cogent point...

I keep asking myself " Are they just playin' stupid, or are they just plain stupid?..."

"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy" : David Brooks

" Only on the subject of God can smart people still imagine that they reap the fruits of human intelligence even as they plow them under." : Sam Harris


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Redemption came here and

Redemption came here and probably said to themselves, "Look at these poor lost puppies, their lives must be so empty".

Fine, we get that all the time. But Redemption, hitting and running will not impress us. There are theists on this site like Clarion and Caposkia and Fonzie who have not run away and do not fear us and do not see us as lost puppies or evil monsters.

So you have this awsome super hero you think will save us all. We get that all the time. But like others have said in this thread, the reason we talk about Christianity the most is because this site is US based and Christianity is the biggest religion in America.

If you spend enough time here, you will see threads about little green men superstition. You will see refutations of big foot and JFK conspiracies. I've even blasted others for claiming the Transporter from Star Trec could be a possibility.

Religion is just as bad a form of dogma as politics and BOTH the state and or church, when left unchecked can and will become abusive. What we do here is to challenge ANY AND ALL absurd claims, not just your pet god and not just your religion.

"Question with boldness even the existence of a god" Thomas Jefferson, who was a deist, not an atheist.

If you wish to have a long stay here, you are going to have to get used to readingblunt blasphemy. You are going to read things that offend you. The only way to not take it personally is to separate the person from what the person is claiming.

You can look at it like this.

You, "The Chargers won the Super Bowl this year"

Skeptic, "Bullshit, the Packers did".

"Bullshit" isn't being said out of hate, but more like a blunt "WAKE UP".

THAT is what we are doing here. We see humanity with all these great modern things born out of scientific method, like medicine, cell phones, space exploration, and we are simply frustrated that far to many want to focus on ancient tribal myth, when our species has bigger problems in pollution, famine, disease and war.

So please stay, but you are going to be miserable if you take things personally.

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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redneF wrote:Ciarin wrote:

redneF wrote:

Ciarin wrote:
You'll have to ask them: http://www.atheist-community.org/contact/

Then I guess you really didn't have any cogent point...

 

Then I guess you couldn't figure out I was correcting your error.


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Brian37 wrote:There are

Brian37 wrote:
There are theists on this site like Clarion and Caposkia and Fonzie who have not run away and do not fear us and do not see us as lost puppies or evil monsters.

What about me?

 

 

Quote:

I've even blasted others for claiming the Transporter from Star Trec could be a possibility.

 

aw man!


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Ciarin wrote:Brian37

Ciarin wrote:

Brian37 wrote:
There are theists on this site like Clarion and Caposkia and Fonzie who have not run away and do not fear us and do not see us as lost puppies or evil monsters.

What about me?

 

 

Quote:

I've even blasted others for claiming the Transporter from Star Trec could be a possibility.

 

aw man!

I am glad you put up with us here, but I still find it funny that you look at the claims of others while still clinging to your own superstition.

Which is why you never seem to get into detail about your own personal pet superstition. Well, not that much I have seen anyway.

Why is it ok to rightfully laugh at the suggestion that you can beam yourself up, but not aim that same logic at your own claims?

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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My feelings towards witches

 

were scarred by that silly book From Witchcraft to Christ with cockney nutcase Doreen Irvine starring as a woman who believed that getting shagged for money, smoking grass and having chicken blood tipped on your boobs while being rooted by the coven's high grand poobah (he turns out to be the local postmaster) constitutes a personal relationship with satan. After having her stupidity cast out of her by a crashing hangover she winds up falling in love with some other supernatural freakboy whose blood she drinks and whose flesh she eats all without the merest hint of irony. It's pure bliss.

 

 

"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck


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Brian37 wrote:I am glad you

Brian37 wrote:

I am glad you put up with us here, but I still find it funny that you look at the claims of others while still clinging to your own superstition.

I prefer claims of belief to not pretend to be claims of science.

Quote:

Which is why you never seem to get into detail about your own personal pet superstition. Well, not that much I have seen anyway.

 

There's no need to. Those interested in my faith can email me privately or hop on my message board http://heathenboard.com.

 

 

Quote:
Why is it ok to rightfully laugh at the suggestion that you can beam yourself up, but not aim that same logic at your own claims?

I don't.


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Ciarin wrote:Then I guess

Ciarin wrote:

Then I guess you couldn't figure out I was correcting your error.

Grab a clue.

The community you allege is an 'atheist' community wouldn't even agree with your conlusions about themselves...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsfiV0v33cU&NR=1

 

I keep asking myself " Are they just playin' stupid, or are they just plain stupid?..."

"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy" : David Brooks

" Only on the subject of God can smart people still imagine that they reap the fruits of human intelligence even as they plow them under." : Sam Harris


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Ciarin wrote:redneF

Ciarin wrote:

redneF wrote:

There is no atheist community.

 

 

except for the one in Austin.

and even they don't agree on all things save their atheism.

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


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redneF wrote:Ciarin

redneF wrote:

Ciarin wrote:

Then I guess you couldn't figure out I was correcting your error.

Grab a clue.

The community you allege is an 'atheist' community wouldn't even agree with your conlusions about themselves...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsfiV0v33cU&NR=1

 

 

what conclusions are you referring to?


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jcgadfly wrote:Ciarin

jcgadfly wrote:

Ciarin wrote:

redneF wrote:

There is no atheist community.

 

 

except for the one in Austin.

and even they don't agree on all things save their atheism.

 

Yep. The only thing atheists have in common is their lack of belief ina god.


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I apologize for the lapse of

I apologize for the lapse of time between my comments but as you probably know Wednesdays are a church day and I have much to do and didn't sit down at a computer since my last post.

I appreciate the links to the stories about missionaries doing things that are not despirable, but like I was told earlier I cannot be held accountable for the things other people do that have the same name as me. I feel terrible that someone claiming to be a Christian would do such unspeakable things in the name of God. I hope that this is not the false conception that people have of all Christians.

I will post more later, I just wanted to make my presence known and to relieve the fears of many that I had ran away.


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Redemption wrote:I apologize

Redemption wrote:

I apologize for the lapse of time between my comments but as you probably know Wednesdays are a church day and I have much to do and didn't sit down at a computer since my last post.

I appreciate the links to the stories about missionaries doing things that are not despirable, but like I was told earlier I cannot be held accountable for the things other people do that have the same name as me. I feel terrible that someone claiming to be a Christian would do such unspeakable things in the name of God. I hope that this is not the false conception that people have of all Christians.

I will post more later, I just wanted to make my presence known and to relieve the fears of many that I had ran away.

 

Why are wednesdays church days? Why would we probably know this?

 

despirable?


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Ciarin wrote:Redemption

Ciarin wrote:

Redemption wrote:

I apologize for the lapse of time between my comments but as you probably know Wednesdays are a church day and I have much to do and didn't sit down at a computer since my last post.

I appreciate the links to the stories about missionaries doing things that are not despirable, but like I was told earlier I cannot be held accountable for the things other people do that have the same name as me. I feel terrible that someone claiming to be a Christian would do such unspeakable things in the name of God. I hope that this is not the false conception that people have of all Christians.

I will post more later, I just wanted to make my presence known and to relieve the fears of many that I had ran away.

 

Why are wednesdays church days? Why would we probably know this?

 

despirable?

Lol, cut him some slack, only atheismts are noun fr perfect speling, gramar and structuer.  He's a theist so abviously he cant right right like we.

"Don't seek these laws to understand. Only the mad can comprehend..." -- George Cosbuc


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Ciarin wrote:Redemption

Ciarin wrote:

Redemption wrote:

I apologize for the lapse of time between my comments but as you probably know Wednesdays are a church day and I have much to do and didn't sit down at a computer since my last post.

I appreciate the links to the stories about missionaries doing things that are not despirable, but like I was told earlier I cannot be held accountable for the things other people do that have the same name as me. I feel terrible that someone claiming to be a Christian would do such unspeakable things in the name of God. I hope that this is not the false conception that people have of all Christians.

I will post more later, I just wanted to make my presence known and to relieve the fears of many that I had ran away.

 

Why are wednesdays church days? Why would we probably know this?

 

despirable?

You wouldn't know it unless you were raised in the Pentecostal Holiness system.

I was so I understand. Basically the Wednesday service (at least where I grew up) was a prayer and praise service with a little Bible study. Basically it's kind of a midweek Christian fix. The Christians think they run our of God power and God needs his ego stroked every hump day.

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


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I is frum Arkansaw so muh

I is frum Arkansaw so muh spellin ain't that great.

Actually though Wednesday night services started out as a Freewill Baptist thing and was later adopted by the Assembly of God and the Presbyterian movements in the South. I can only speak of what I know and at my church we have a full service comprable to Sunday Morning. We have 2 to 3 songs in our worship service then we have announcements that are relevant to the church and the following week then we have anywhere from a 30 to 45 minute study of the Bible with time for prayer before and after service starts. I will concede that this is just my church I can't say that is how it is everywhere I only speak from experience.

I assumed that Wednesday services were a staple. That's what I get for assuming though so 1 point to Ciarin for enlightening me.

 


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Redemption wrote:I is frum

Redemption wrote:

I is frum Arkansaw so muh spellin ain't that great.

Actually though Wednesday night services started out as a Freewill Baptist thing and was later adopted by the Assembly of God and the Presbyterian movements in the South. I can only speak of what I know and at my church we have a full service comprable to Sunday Morning. We have 2 to 3 songs in our worship service then we have announcements that are relevant to the church and the following week then we have anywhere from a 30 to 45 minute study of the Bible with time for prayer before and after service starts. I will concede that this is just my church I can't say that is how it is everywhere I only speak from experience.

I assumed that Wednesday services were a staple. That's what I get for assuming though so 1 point to Ciarin for enlightening me.

 

I used to go to Wednesday services, and Sunday morning and Sunday evening services as well.  In junior high my very best friend was the daughter of the Foursquare Gospel preacher.  Talk about nut cases.

Did you know the devil will leap out of the card deck and take your soul if you play solitaire in your own home without even gambling on the outcome of your games?  That is when I lost the faith - that time.  My 13 year old self said - aw, for pete's sake.

 

-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.

"We are entitled to our own opinions. We're not entitled to our own facts"- Al Franken

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cj wrote:Redemption wrote:I

cj wrote:

Redemption wrote:

I is frum Arkansaw so muh spellin ain't that great.

Actually though Wednesday night services started out as a Freewill Baptist thing and was later adopted by the Assembly of God and the Presbyterian movements in the South. I can only speak of what I know and at my church we have a full service comprable to Sunday Morning. We have 2 to 3 songs in our worship service then we have announcements that are relevant to the church and the following week then we have anywhere from a 30 to 45 minute study of the Bible with time for prayer before and after service starts. I will concede that this is just my church I can't say that is how it is everywhere I only speak from experience.

I assumed that Wednesday services were a staple. That's what I get for assuming though so 1 point to Ciarin for enlightening me.

 

I used to go to Wednesday services, and Sunday morning and Sunday evening services as well.  In junior high my very best friend was the daughter of the Foursquare Gospel preacher.  Talk about nut cases.

Did you know the devil will leap out of the card deck and take your soul if you play solitaire in your own home without even gambling on the outcome of your games?  That is when I lost the faith - that time.  My 13 year old self said - aw, for pete's sake.

 

I used to date a preacher's daughter, she wasn't very holy...  memories Smiling  

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Ktulu wrote:cj

Ktulu wrote:

cj wrote:

Redemption wrote:

I is frum Arkansaw so muh spellin ain't that great.

Actually though Wednesday night services started out as a Freewill Baptist thing and was later adopted by the Assembly of God and the Presbyterian movements in the South. I can only speak of what I know and at my church we have a full service comprable to Sunday Morning. We have 2 to 3 songs in our worship service then we have announcements that are relevant to the church and the following week then we have anywhere from a 30 to 45 minute study of the Bible with time for prayer before and after service starts. I will concede that this is just my church I can't say that is how it is everywhere I only speak from experience.

I assumed that Wednesday services were a staple. That's what I get for assuming though so 1 point to Ciarin for enlightening me.

I used to go to Wednesday services, and Sunday morning and Sunday evening services as well.  In junior high my very best friend was the daughter of the Foursquare Gospel preacher.  Talk about nut cases.

Did you know the devil will leap out of the card deck and take your soul if you play solitaire in your own home without even gambling on the outcome of your games?  That is when I lost the faith - that time.  My 13 year old self said - aw, for pete's sake.

I used to date a preacher's daughter, she wasn't very holy...  memories Smiling  

 

I hope she was older than 11-12.

 

-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.

"We are entitled to our own opinions. We're not entitled to our own facts"- Al Franken

"If death isn't sweet oblivion, I will be severely disappointed" - Ruth M.


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cj wrote:Ktulu wrote:cj

cj wrote:

Ktulu wrote:

cj wrote:

Redemption wrote:

I is frum Arkansaw so muh spellin ain't that great.

Actually though Wednesday night services started out as a Freewill Baptist thing and was later adopted by the Assembly of God and the Presbyterian movements in the South. I can only speak of what I know and at my church we have a full service comprable to Sunday Morning. We have 2 to 3 songs in our worship service then we have announcements that are relevant to the church and the following week then we have anywhere from a 30 to 45 minute study of the Bible with time for prayer before and after service starts. I will concede that this is just my church I can't say that is how it is everywhere I only speak from experience.

I assumed that Wednesday services were a staple. That's what I get for assuming though so 1 point to Ciarin for enlightening me.

I used to go to Wednesday services, and Sunday morning and Sunday evening services as well.  In junior high my very best friend was the daughter of the Foursquare Gospel preacher.  Talk about nut cases.

Did you know the devil will leap out of the card deck and take your soul if you play solitaire in your own home without even gambling on the outcome of your games?  That is when I lost the faith - that time.  My 13 year old self said - aw, for pete's sake.

I used to date a preacher's daughter, she wasn't very holy...  memories Smiling  

 

I hope she was older than 11-12.

 

lol I hope so too, she looked about 22, but I've never seen her ID, and I wouldn't believe anything she said anyways.

"Don't seek these laws to understand. Only the mad can comprehend..." -- George Cosbuc