You're being dishonest and equivocal.

This was what you said:

" how do you justify spreading false information when science has been wrong? "

You're speaking in terms that are too broad.

What 'facts' do you think you have?

Facts and universal constants are not established using logic.

Logic is patterned after discovery, not the other way around; for better or worse.

That's neither here, nor there.

It's literature.

I don't know what point you're trying to make. Data is not an appeal to emotions.

You're off your nut.

You come in here under the guise that you'd like to discuss or debate, and then tear into spouting random ad hominem propagandist diatribes based on convoluted narratives and correlations.

That's false on 2 counts.

1- Spirituality and religion are not mutually inclusive. Atheists can be deeply spiritual.

2- In certain parts of the world, atheists are most certainly forced to, at the very least, keep their mouths shut, for fear of transgressions against themselves and their loved ones from emotionally and mentally dysfunctional people, and their disproportionate rage and intolerance towards spiritual pluralism.

You're projecting your fantasies and delusions.

That's talking woo woo.

That's not rational discourse.

Might does not make right.

I've never seen any evidence of gods or supernatural phenomena. You are a subset of a superset of atheists and skeptics, and you'd be better to learn to understand, and acknowledge it, and adjust your behaviour, or suffer the consequences of being lumped into a category of religious nutters, by the leaders of science and technolgies, who are the ones who truly shape the modern world.

There are hundreds of millions of individuals, who make very little distinction between religious people, for very 'logical' and 'rational' reasons, much to your possible chagrin.

You people enjoyed the freedom from high levels of scrutiny and focus, for many years. But, the events of 9/11 changed the landscape of humanity forever, and has brought the focus on religious dogma and adherance to flights of fantasy, to the forefront, and will continue to do so.

With more and more 'closet' atheists coming out of the woodwork, it will send a powerful message to those who lived in an ignorance bubble of the world around them.

More and more moderates who were just 'going through the motions' and who perhaps never really engaged in heavy duty self actualization, will realize that they perhaps need to set aside the time, and compare their philosophical and moral views compared to atheists.

No, because you're underqualified.

You're not even close to my level of awareness, understanding and acceptance of reality, or my level of sobriety.

How does not buying your particular God story equate to "ignoring spirituality"? Do you ignore spirituality because you don't buy into Allah or Vishnu?

Do you really think choosing "none of the above" makes me less of a citizen?

How do you jump from "the scriptures are right for me" to "the scriptures are right for all"?

I tend not to trust concordances because they base the definition of terms based on what fits the religion rather than what the word actually says.

And the minds of everyone else who believes in them, apparently.

What exactly am I supposed to "try again"?

Do you seriously believe in many Gods, or is this just some front that you put on?  

Even atheism is more rational than this, and that's saying a lot.

Says the Christian polytheist...

    Well nanny boo boo !!!   Seriously Ciarin, is that what you rely upon to validate maintaining your belief in Anglo Saxon mythology ?    Because others do as well ?   That's pretty lame. 

   Well in the same vein, hundreds of millions of Christians / Muslims believe in a literal Heaven and Hell but apparently your group of happy heathens disagree with that concept ( according to your previous post ) so why should I let myself be influenced by something that bases it's "truth" by how many people sign up ?  In spite of the Abrahamic religions vastly superior membership you seem to have no problem assigning their religious claims to the proverbial trash can.  ( double standard anyone ? )

  If all 7 billion humans on Earth suddenly claimed to have some sort of god belief and I was the only atheist in existence my lonely reply would still be for them to provide me with evidence to vindicate their supernatural claims.  The phrase "put up or shut up" would  continue to be my approach.

    I would ask you for evidence to back up your heathen gods theory but I've seen enough of your posts to know that will never happen.

  Whatever.....

     Ditto.

Indeed.

Nice strawman you got there.

You shouldn't. You should think for yourself. Arguments that appeal to popularity shouldn't influence anyone.

lol, nanny nanny boo boo fail.

 Hey Ciarin you're really great with one liners and witty comebacks but I've seen your feeble attempts to explain why you "believe" .   Oh, you don't appeal to popularity do you ?  Well at least that would  be a start.   You don't appeal to anything except how it makes you feel.

You invite atheists to question you about you fairy tale beliefs and when they try to pin you down as to why you believe you become the master of obfuscation.  I read your brilliant thread at AN and it was just you pleading the 5'th for over thirty pages and eventually becoming their heathen chew toy.

  So, go right ahead and fall back onto your witty little responses and your passive-aggressive bull shit.  You're more of a joke than the Christians who come here because at least they  put some actual effort in to providing evidence as to why they believe.   Your arguments never even make it out of the gate.

 ( Bye Ciarin, no more time to waste on you. )

what a brilliant mischaracterization.

If by that you mean "Biblical" I will have to agree.

  This school of thought provides comfort, inspires awe etc,  ....but it's just not useful for testing truth claims ? 

     Art for arts sake.

Thanks for the advice to put on my armor, and I do that everyday, and the fact that the only thing that I can get picked on about is my spelling shows that my armor is working.

Matthew 10:14 is not a tuck tail and run away it is the guide for evangelist that if you are not welcome go away instead of causing strife by creating a scene due to unwelcome guests.. If I am not welcome I will most certainly go away but isn't this a place where everyone is welcome to debate their beliefs? 

I had a talk with a fellow minister about the discussion that has went on here and he had this to say. " Atheist's may yearn for facts of a God without having to show any faith but if they would be open like that claim to be and show faith like a mustard seed then God would be able to show visible, tangible proof that he exists."

I was picking on your view that Satan has basis in the OT as evil. That there was a such thing as original sin, that the originators of the god you hold as real saw these things differently than you as as Christian and Christians have morphed into something else.  You are so far avoiding all of these issues. But I'll give you a little more time.

So are you a minister too?

Once you inject errors in your mental processes,  any delusion is possible.

Let me clue you in on something: several years ago I was the most zealot christian you could imagine. I was absolutely convinced that god was not only real but, that I had a personal relationship with said god. This delusion was helpful to me at the time but, since then, I've realized that good and bad things happen as a direct result of the decisions we make. No god required. I broke it off.

There is not now and never was any 'tangible proof that he exists'. It is an illusion created by the mind for various reasons. If it makes you feel good to deny factual scientific evidence and believe in an imaginary being, go for it but, you can't expect everyone else to want to jump on the band wagon with you... especially those of us who have been there, done that, and don't care to go there again.

When you realize that the sun rises and sets just exactly the same whether you believe in a god or, not, and that you are the same person whether you belive in god or, not then you will be ready to give up your delusion.

Stick around here long enough and it will happen.

Still whining, huh?

Is that all you people know how to do, is to contradict yourself at every turn, and then play the victim and make Jeebus sounds?

Actually, you people are party crashers.

You Judeo Christian clowns don't even have your own act together. How many different incompatible tribes do you have anyway?

Yet you want to attack atheists for not assimilating into 1 of the thousands of rival tribes, and for rejecting 1 additional god delusion, for a full sweep.

When all theists have a unified theory, get back to us, write a book about it, publish it, STFU and accept that a lot of people won't give a shit one way, or the other, and you're just going to have to learn to deal with the fact that others can take it, or leave it.

It's a place where people are free to express their opinions, yes. And it works quite well.

Some of us here quite dislike each other, but, do not think the other deserves to burn in a lake of fire for eternity, simply because we dislike them.

Nah.

Big misconception.

You people somehow always default to 'why?'. Like obnoxious children. Why this? Why that?  Why this and not that? Why is this necessary? Why is that necessary? Why is this necessary and not that?" "Why can't it be like this?" Why can't it be like that?" Why can't it be like this and like that?"

"Why are we born?"

"Why do we die?"

"Why did the chicken cross the road?"  "Why is there a chicken?" Why is there a road?" 

"Why, why, why?"

That's some kind of insanity right there... 

Here's a few answers : "Why not?" "Why are you troubled by this?" "Why question it?" "Why not accept it?" "Why not embrace it?" "Why not be content to have the opportunity to enjoy your life for all that it is?" "Why worry about what you cannot change?"

Here's a more important question: "What is the problem?"

That was pretty good, redneF... even if I do dislike you.

That's a big part of the problem - 'god' is THE default answer when there is no other answer to a question... and it is the wrong answer.

If my house gets hit by a tornado tomorrow, it will be because it just happens to be in the path of the storm. The answer from the christian will be 'because you are an atheist and pissed off god'. If it is spared from a tornado, they will say 'god spared you this time but, you'll get it eventually'.  

"Why, why, why?"

No you don't, not from a human rights standpoint. YOU CAN believe what you want and it does not have to be popular.

THAT IS NOT THE ISSUE.

YOU, nor any human who has uttered the claim of a super natural WHATEVER, past or present, monotheist or polytheist, none of you, NO ONE, NO HUMAN EVER

Has ever had the ability to take their deity claim into an unbias setting and have their claims kicked around, an independently tested and falsified and independently verified.

YOU cannot do with your claims what a microscope can do with mitosis. You cannot do with your pet gods claims WHATEVER THEY ARE, what scientists can do with identifying DNA.

You have no evidence for what you personally believe. You have absolutely no way of DEMONSTRATING any sense of credibility for your personal god/s. Certainly by law you don't have to legally prove anything. BUT that is not the issue.

The issue ON ANY CLAIM, even outside the issue of religion, is the ability to demonstrate the credibility of a given claim. THAT IS THE ISSUE, not your human rights.

EVERY BELIEVER, INCLUDING YOU is doing the same thing.

You, "The Chargers won the Super Bowl"

Skeptic, "Bullshit, the Packers did"

You, "I don't have to believe that the Packers won if I don't want to believe that"

YOU CAN BELIEVE THAT YOUR COMPUTER RUNS ON PIXY DUST FOR ALL WE CARE.

The issue is what evidence you would claim to have for such a claim.

This is NOT "NANNY NANNY BOO BOO"

This is a very serious issue on how humans go about finding out how things work. "I like what I believe" is a human rights issue. "How things work" is a pragmatic issue and should not be based on wishful thinking. If you cannot test a claim or falsify it, you can believe it, certainly, but that does not mean you have evidence for what you claim.

The only way humans have collectivelly come to conclusions about how things work, such as biology, technology, space and science is through the universal method of testing and falsification. Making shit up or "I like what I believe" does not constitute evidence.

It is why ALL OF US can know what the sun is really made of instead of falsely thinking it is a god.

It is why you and I can KNOW what DNA IS an can know what rigor mortis is. It is why you and I are typing on computers right now. Your computer does not run on belief in Allah, or Thor. It is because of scientific method you are reading this right now.

Your personal diety belief does not have anywhere close the standards needed to measure reality. It is merely your own wishful thinking.

DO NOT take this personally because this has always been the case with every deity claim in human history.

THIS IS NOT A HUMAN RIGHTS ISSUE,

YOU ARE entitled to your own opinions and beliefs, none of us are entitled to our own facts,

If Henry Ford or the Wright Brothers simply went with this attitude we wouldn't have modern cars or planes.

It once made sense for most of humanity to believe that the earth was flat and it felt right to them. Galileo and Capernicus(sp) come along and upset the apple cart. I am glad they did.

It "made sense" and "felt right" to the Ancient Egyptians to believe that the sun was a god, but that turned out not to be the case.

Your right to believe has nothing to do with your ability to demonstrate the credibility of what comes out of your mouth ON ANY ISSUE.

You are missing my point again.

I said don't complain. I didn't call you whiny. Although I have called other believers whiny.

SECONDLY I also didn't say you personally said we will roast in hell. But others DO believe that and use the same book you do to justify that. Your beef should be with them, not me.

Personally I think those who DO view their god as vengeful are closer to the words in the bible, than people like you who water it down to make it work. YOU did admit that all of you have the same core belief. Very rare to get that kind of admission from a believer. That is one thing I will give you.

Who said you can't ask questions?

No human has absolute truth. WHAT HUMANS DO HAVE are myths they like believing, and the pragmatic tool of scientific method, which is not mere speculation, but universal. It is why humans have put man on the moon. It is why we have medicine, and cell phones.

Scientific method is not a person, it is a tool. Much like a hammer is a tool, and a construction worker is the person using the tool.

What we are saying what human have which is the best tool we know today to measure reality is through testing and falsification.

Myths, deities, super natural, past or present, monotheist or polytheist, are claims of tradition, not provable facts that can be independently tested and verified.

A myth is merely a dead god once believed to be real. Your personal claim if society seeks to protect it for long, WILL either morph into something else or die and become a myth in the future.

Your confident?

No. You're not.

You're confused. Conflicted. And a liar.

I pointed that out, clearly, and you won't acknowledge it.

Which makes you deluded.

Do your homework. The Jesus myth is a fabrication.

You need to grab a clue.

I even gave you a link to understand that you people are a subset of the superset of atheists.

Atheists are not a 'homogenous' group, but a 'heterogeneous' superset.

You people are just inclined to 'see' correlations and things that aren't there.

There's different categories of those kinds of prejudices, like 'Confirmation Bias' and 'Fundamental Attribution Error'.

Guilty conscience?

Did I allege that it was something you said?...

No.

I said it because it's part and parcel of your cult's dogma.

No.

I think it's stupid and obnoxious.

So you're going against your personal morals? You don't align with your God, yet you won't stand up to him?

What kind of a man are you?

You're projecting.

I'm not insane. I don't hear voices telling me what to do, and what not to do.

I do as I please.

Well, if she tried to punish me for eternity, I'd do no different that anyone else who tried to abuse me. I'd stop them by any means necessary.

Have you always had comprehension problems?

Asking 'what' is (x), and 'how' does (x) work, is natural.

Asking 'why' (x), and 'why' does (x) behave as it does, is anthropomorphism and is psychologically tied to narcissim.

Asking 'what' water is, is dispassionate inquiry. Asking what the mechanisms and forces are, that form the molecule from the atoms, is a dispassionate inquiry.

Asking 'why' the atoms become joined, is 'projecting' and 'inducing' that there is some 'reason', or some 'function', which is anthropomorphism.

The fact that you're a theist, and very conflicted between what is compatible with reality, clearly demonstrates a problem with a distorted perception of reality.

Not to mention the fact that you openly lie (and I've already pointed those out) about your intentions and motives, makes you a person of very low integrity and dubious authenticity.

You've demonstrated that you disagree that people should 'roast in hell', yet you obviously are willing to compromise your ethics and condone anyone who would be in charge of that, as long as it gets you a pass into their eternal playground in another world.

That's pretty gutless and selfish.

So, I ask again, what kind of a man are you?

Because you're no man I'd admire, or aspire to be like.

I have better morals and ethics than you or your idol.

If the world is as you believe it to be, I'll take my chances with not going to heaven. I couldn't respect myself if I resembled you or your idol.

You cannot justifiably, and with certainty, claim that the Bible is infallible, without being infallible yourself.

Which you are not.

Most of Genesis contradicts all kinds of things we have come to know with a high degree of confidence, and some of it is inconsistent. Therefore is no way an honest, informed and educated person could justify claiming the book is infallible.

It didn't even get its own predictions of a saviour right.

Redemption ...I have a degree in Bible and I can tell you it is not infallible, not inerrant and heavily fabricated.  Many of us here know that. If you want to talk about your faith and it is bible based and dependent then you need to overcome the fact that you are talking to people that see the bible as nothing but a collection of primitive anthropology and superstition and myth.