Environment or Genetics?

digitalbeachbum
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Environment or Genetics?

Here is an interesting situation about a little girl who grew up with two lesbian parents. The father was non-existent, apparently a terrible father.

As a little girl, this woman, wrote a book called 'Heather has two mommies' and now she is a writer for The Federalist. That alone is amazing to me. What happened to a girl who was taught to be open minded and to have empathy for others? How could she now be a right wing conservative christian? Is it genetics? Did she have a NDE? Is she a weak minded individual who met a more powerful man who convinced her that her 'two mommies' were sinners?

https://www.yahoo.com/parenting/daughter-of-two-moms-comes-out-against-gay-113987192687.html

After reading the article I found several errors in her admitting that gay relationships are wrong. Number one it is only her opinion and there are too many children in this world who would have a different opinion than her, besides, she isn't a little girl any more. She has been influenced by religion and politics which has changed her mind. When she was a little girl all her needs were being met. Sure she missed her dad or father figure, and this is my second issue with her statements, but how many single parents out there raise well adjusted children with out the opposite sex being present in their lives?

It just amazes me how life and humans function.


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Every study I've seen

Every study I've seen suggests the best parent scenario is when both a mother and father are present. But that single parents and gay couples are not so far behind as to create any concern. Far better to let gay couples and single parents raise children than to make them wards of the state, in which the childs chances of a happy & productive life are roughly equal to winning a multi-million dollar lottery twice in one year.

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She said her father,

She said her father, “wasn’t a great guy” and “didn’t bother coming around anymore.” With that being the case, her two moms did not "withhold" a father from her. After that, the whole thing reads as a non sequitur to me. Every human has a biological mother and father; legalizing gay marriage doesn't remove one of those, just like her two moms didn't remove her dad. Her dad was just garbage.

 

Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare


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yeah, i read this earlier

yeah, i read this earlier today. my thinking is, how does she think things should have been handled after her asshole prick of a no-show father bailed? should her mother have suppressed her sexuality and married a man, creating god knows what kind of fucked-up shit-storm? and denying millions of couples the right to marry and have families makes up for her shitty childhood how?


guess what, princess? nobody has a perfect family. it's a myth. the waltons, the cleavers, the huxtables: they're all fucking myths. my parents divorced before i was 3. my former stepfather was a real fucking gobshite who treated me like shit compared to my half-brother, with no attempt to even hide his favoritism, and was serially unfaithful to my mother, barely even trying to hide that. boo-hoo, woe is me, how about we outlaw divorce? or adultery? no, i will tell everyone i had a great fucking childhood. my step-dad may have been a narcissistic cunt, but at least he didn't drink or lay a hand on me, and the money he made from his successful businesses put me through college and let me experience an upbringing of privilege and comfort, a lifestyle i'll probably never see again (and that's ok too).


example 2: i never met my maternal grandmother. she committed suicide when my mom was only 14, because her husband, my grandfather, was also serially unfaithful, and a drunk and a pillhead to boot. if anyone can whine and moan, it's my mother. but no: she picked herself up, got her master's, became a teacher, raised three children, and turned herself into the wonderful parent that she never had. the moral is, everybody has bullshit to deal with, some more than others, but you fucking deal with it and you don't turn it into a crusade to mould other people's lives into the one you wish you'd had.


the only "problem" i can see is that she was loved too goddamn much. here's what i think is going on: little miss special here got bit by the jesus bug and is now turning on those who nurtured her in order to somehow turn a near perfect childhood into the sordid affair that the crew-cut fundies say it surely must've been, and the best she can do is to somehow project the pain of a missing father onto the loving embrace of two mothers to sell her new ideological overlords' political agenda. she hasn't owned up to catching the jesus flu, mind you, because that would undermine her credibility as a genuine, empathetic product of same-sex parenting or whatever kind of bullshit image she wants to make for herself.


quite frankly, i think she's a low-life, scumbag, disgusting, disgraceful cunt, who's selling the people who gave their all for her up the fucking river of conservative fundy american politics. fuck this bitch.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
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digitalbeachbum
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iwbiek wrote:yeah, i read

iwbiek wrote:
yeah, i read this earlier today. my thinking is, how does she think things should have been handled after her asshole prick of a no-show father bailed? should her mother have suppressed her sexuality and married a man, creating god knows what kind of fucked-up shit-storm? and denying millions of couples the right to marry and have families makes up for her shitty childhood how?
guess what, princess? nobody has a perfect family. it's a myth. the waltons, the cleavers, the huxtables: they're all fucking myths. my parents divorced before i was 3. my former stepfather was a real fucking gobshite who treated me like shit compared to my half-brother, with no attempt to even hide his favoritism, and was serially unfaithful to my mother, barely even trying to hide that. boo-hoo, woe is me, how about we outlaw divorce? or adultery? no, i will tell everyone i had a great fucking childhood. my step-dad may have been a narcissistic cunt, but at least he didn't drink or lay a hand on me, and the money he made from his successful businesses put me through college and let me experience an upbringing of privilege and comfort, a lifestyle i'll probably never see again (and that's ok too).
example 2: i never met my maternal grandmother. she committed suicide when my mom was only 14, because her husband, my grandfather, was also serially unfaithful, and a drunk and a pillhead to boot. if anyone can whine and moan, it's my mother. but no: she picked herself up, got her master's, became a teacher, raised three children, and turned herself into the wonderful parent that she never had. the moral is, everybody has bullshit to deal with, some more than others, but you fucking deal with it and you don't turn it into a crusade to mould other people's lives into the one you wish you'd had.
the only "problem" i can see is that she was loved too goddamn much. here's what i think is going on: little miss special here got bit by the jesus bug and is now turning on those who nurtured her in order to somehow turn a near perfect childhood into the sordid affair that the crew-cut fundies say it surely must've been, and the best she can do is to somehow project the pain of a missing father onto the loving embrace of two mothers to sell her new ideological overlords' political agenda. she hasn't owned up to catching the jesus flu, mind you, because that would undermine her credibility as a genuine, empathetic product of same-sex parenting or whatever kind of bullshit image she wants to make for herself.
quite frankly, i think she's a low-life, scumbag, disgusting, disgraceful cunt, who's selling the people who gave their all for her up the fucking river of conservative fundy american politics. fuck this bitch.

awesome post.


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digitalbeachbum wrote: Did

digitalbeachbum wrote:

 Did she have a NDE? 

AS far as I know there is no research showing the political spectrum of those who had a verifiable NDE. From the scientific literature I read, I have strong doubts that most of them would turn Christian right wing.

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digitalbeachbum
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Teralek wrote:

Teralek wrote:

digitalbeachbum wrote:

 Did she have a NDE? 

AS far as I know there is no research showing the political spectrum of those who had a verifiable NDE. From the scientific literature I read, I have strong doubts that most of them would turn Christian right wing.

I doubt there is a political connection. NDE's happen to all different walks of life and it is how the people interpret the experience


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Vastet wrote:Every study

Vastet wrote:
Every study I've seen suggests the best parent scenario is when both a mother and father are present. But that single parents and gay couples are not so far behind as to create any concern. Far better to let gay couples and single parents raise children than to make them wards of the state, in which the childs chances of a happy & productive life are roughly equal to winning a multi-million dollar lottery twice in one year.

 

Research supports this claim from what I recall. But the issue is deeper, it relates to human development itself. The reality is that most parents are too young and too caught up with growing up themselves to avoid making enough mistakes to give an immature adult ammunition to hate them.

It takes years to figure out that forgiving our parents is the best course of action - save for cases of extreme abuse or abandonment of course. 

 

I think the reason it takes so long is because it comes easiest when you become old enough to be your parents parent at the age when they first became parents. I can see my father as a frightened 23 year old, five years younger than my oldest daughter, and now I can think "Jeez, poor kid" instead of  "Asshole!"

 

 

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I agree. My parents did some

I agree. My parents did some pretty dumb things in my estimation, but if I look at things as objectively as I'm capable of I can't seriously blame them for it.

I think the whole thing about blaming parents stems from the child's perspective that the parents are all-powerful and all-knowing. It doesn't leave wiggle room for forgiveness until you accept that this perspective is wrong; that parents are no more knowledgeable than anyone else, even though it can seem otherwise while you are young.

People who never accept that parents are as capable of mistakes as any random individual have a hard time forgiving mistakes; because in the mind of the child they weren't mistakes (parents can't make mistakes, thus it was intentional).

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Vastet wrote: I think the

Vastet wrote:
I think the whole thing about blaming parents stems from the child's perspective that the parents are all-powerful and all-knowing. It doesn't leave wiggle room for forgiveness until you accept that this perspective is wrong; that parents are no more knowledgeable than anyone else, even though it can seem otherwise while you are young. People who never accept that parents are as capable of mistakes as any random individual have a hard time forgiving mistakes; because in the mind of the child they weren't mistakes (parents can't make mistakes, thus it was intentional).

 

Yes. As a psychologist I find that a great deal of my work is disabusing people of fantasies.... as much as they might rage against their parents or the world, most people start out with the assumption that their parents were omnipotent and that the world is actually a loving, caring place.

It is surprising just how often a cynical, angry person really still harbors these wildly optimistic beliefs. Fairy tales harm us all through life....

"Hitler burned people like Anne Frank, for that we call him evil.
"God" burns Anne Frank eternally. For that, theists call him 'good.'


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 I always find it to be a

 I always find it to be a stupid argument to claim homosexuality is a sin or even unatural. Unatural would be a human giving birth to an aligator. If evolution didn't produce gay children, they wouldn't exist. And these same people suffer sample rate errors of multiple kids comming from the same parents where only one is gay and the others or not. And they ignore where gay parents produce heterosexual children. They stupidly think gays cant have heterosexual sex to produce a baby. They may have to mentally "hold their noses" when having heterosexual sex, but the orgasm itself has more to do with reactionary functions and not the person's sexuality.

I'd say that parenting would be better suited in terms of quality time and good communication, treating the kid as an indivudual. Hetrosexual parents can be abusive and can autoritarian and treat kids as if they are property to become clones of the parents. 

The most important thing for a kid is time, comfort and postive encoragement. If someone wants to argue that sex has risks, like disease and unwanted pregnancy, or lack of economics, certainly that part is good. But the parent's sexuality heterosexual or homosexual will not dictate the individuals ability as a parent. Gays and lesbians most certainly are capable good parents. And heterosexuals are most certainly capable of being bad parents.

 

 

 

 

 

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It's a miracle! Brian not

It's a miracle! Brian not only stayed on topic; he didn't strawman anyone, make shit up, display hypocrisy, or say anything incredibly stupid! Holy shit!!

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