Glock The Great Equalizer
Offline http://abcnews.go.com/US/kendra-st-clair-oklahoma-girl-12-shoots-intruder/story?id=17524438#.UISH8MUnFo8
By MARK GREENBLATT (@greenblattmark)
Oct. 20, 2012
Kendra St. Clair, 12, was at home alone in Oklahoma, when loud banging began on the door to her family's home. Soon, the glass shattered and an intruder had entered.
"I was scared and I didn't know what to do next," Kendra told ABC News.
Petrified, she called her mom Debra.
"I said Kendra get the gun and go get in my closet now. And call 911."
The young 6th grader followed her mom's orders to the tee.
The 911 tapes tell the story as it unfolded.
Kendra: "I'm at my house. I'm in my closet. And I ran away from (inaudible) someone's trying to get into my house and I do not know who they are." Dispatcher: "Ok I have a deputy en route, I want you to stay on the phone with me. Ok?" Kendra: "Ok. Please. I think they are in the house."
Kendra had taken shelter in a closet, clutching her mother's .40 caliber glock gun while she listened to the intruder make his way around her home.
Kendra: "Please help me. Please." Dispatcher: "Alright, alright. I understand. Do you still have your mom's gun there?" Kendra: "Yes I do. I have it in my hand."
Her fear intensified to sheer terror, when she saw the knob of the closet door beginning to turn.
At that point, that for the first time in her life, Kendra fired a gun.
Police said the bullet traveled straight through the closet door and struck 32-year-old Stacey Jones in the shoulder, scaring him out of the house.
They arrested him a few blocks away and charged Jones with first degree burglary.
"When I had the gun, I didn't think I was actually going to have to shoot somebody," the 6th grader recalled. "I think it's going to change me a whole lot, knowing that I can hold my head up high and nothing can hurt me anymore."
If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X
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If somebody is breaking into the house, the best solution would be to get the fuck out of the house.
"I think it's going to change me a whole lot, knowing that I can hold my head up high and nothing can hurt me anymore."
At least as long as she has the gun - any bets on how long it'll take her to carry it to school?
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
DP
Beyond, you really prove to me that we ultimatly are not labels but individuals and display the same utopia stupidity on guns as you do on economics.
Good for her. I do agree, in this case it worked. Problem is that when guns are introduced into a domestic situation, those most injured are the family. You take a rare case of success and conflate it as an absolute solution.
Most of the time guns injure people who own them and their families or the community people they know.
You are more likely to injure yourself or be injured by people you know with a gun than stopping someone from shooting you AFTER they already have a gun to your head. In this case he did not have the drop on her.
The only reason this worked is that luckily he was fucking stupid. But most of the time a person with a gun who wants to rob you or kill you will have the advantage and the ones who only want to rob you when you pull a gun on them shoot you and most of the time YOU will end up losing.
His lack of planning was why that was successful, not her using the gun.
It is why law inforcement always tell you, you get a gun stuck to your face, do what they say. Do not extrapilate a "Kudos" to her as being the majority outcome because it is not.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
Sucks to be him.
I'm not falling for an emotional argument though.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
Stick with S&W, Colt or even a 9mm Beretta.
The Glock trigger safety is something a lot of people never get used to. Holes in feet and ceilings are unfortunately too common.
Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.
www.ussliberty.org
www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html
www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml
Exactly!
Because when guns are introduced the outcomes statistically do not end like this.
"Good for her" is not any empathetic sane person's argument. That fuckwad got what he deserved.
He lost in this situation because of his own misjudgment to any compassionate persones delight and most certianly the victim.
But when people end up dead, most of the time, it is domestic family murder, and or gang violence, or robbery resistance thinking you can get the drop on them after they have introduced a gun and you stupidly resist.
A shark will seak a seal and sneak up on it from below. The fact that sometimes the seal will escape does not negate that sharks eat seals and would not evolve if they didn't have stealth.
But if stealth is assumed, which this guy wanted, most of the time the drop is on the victim before they can plan ahead. The gun is already in their face or they get shot from behind or in their sleep.
So if this "glock" would fix social ills all the time, then it should work no matter the situation or the experiance of the person defending themself.
Beyond misses that this is not the norm, even if we say "good for you" in the acception.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
I remember a study from another country which showed a dramatic decrease in crime because they had mandatory gun training classes.
The gist of the story is that EVERY CITIZEN knew how to handle a weapon but didn't have to own one, but shooting ranges had the opportunity to make a sale with the student.
Crime dropped dramatically because criminals never knew who might have a gun.
Every study I've seen on crime points to primary causes of crime being emotional outbursts, poverty, politics, religion, sports, and prejudice. Never have I seen one which indicates any kind of threat as having any impact at all on the frequency of crime, only severity. And in all those cases, the more severe the threat, the more dangerous in turn was the criminal.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
Revolvers don't have manual safeties and have been around for 150 + years. People easily got used to them. A trigger is a trigger. Regardless of the type of handgun keep your finger off of it until you are actually ready to fire. It's not rocket science.
Oh, yes. Now that she's tasted blood I definitely see a mass shooting in her future. Good call jc.
http://www.guncite.com/swissgun-kopel.html
Just looking at the quote Prozac. Apparently not being hurt again is a considerable fear for her. Never said anything about a mass shooting - simply a possible overreaction to the need to protect herself. I notice you missed that part.
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
DP (not sure why this is happening)
TP
That may work for that country, but it only works because they ALREADY have less of a crime rate and more economic stability and less obsession with violence and a higher education rate.
You look at higher poverty rates and less education you introduce guns and it makes no fucking sense. Africa has pleanty of violence and guns and is full of poverty and tribal war precisely because of economic instability, lack of education and poverty.
So it can only work under certain conditions and most certainly in our current state right now with sliding economic conditions, it cannot work right now in all locals in the Unitided States even if it does work in some locations.
But again, with this post and this particular girl, everyone should say "good for her". But under the law stats and medical stats of gun injury and death, you are still more likely to injure yourself or be injured by someone you know than protecting yourself from a stranger.
So the only way, which I don't see happening anytime soon, this model you speek of could work, is if the entire society had more economic stability, less poverty and less obssesion with guns and violence.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
In case you haven't noticed guns have already been introduced to America, they are not going away. You are correct however that economics and culture have far more to do with the level of violence than the number of or availability of weapons. Hence the flaw with throwing around statistics attempting to compare crime rates across countries as if guns was a major contributing factor.
I for one am happy that Kendra's mom had the choice to purchase the gun, I am happy that Kendra was aware where the gun was and had enough knowledge on how to use it to shoot the bad guy and not herself. I am a little sad that the bullet didn't kill the SOB and he is probably going to be out on parole in a year. Mostly I just posted the story because it made me smile and I figured it would make Prozac's day too.
If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X
What would happen if 95% of the entire population carried guns and were taught to use them?
Do you think criminals would feel safe?
Doubt it,. I can also see that there could be more criminals because it's been shown time and again that waving a gun around (and firing it occasionally) does make it easier to get what you want.
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
I disagree.
If I walked in to a bank and 95% of the people inside the bank all carried guns then you stand the risk of getting your ass shot-up. Criminals don't want a hassle. They just want their money and then out the door they go. The more complicated it gets the less likely they want to commit the crime.
It's always nice when the person killed or injured by gun violence isn't a friend or family member. I have to laugh at how sensational the article was though. I wonder if he has a political position.
Little Kendra knew it was conceivable she'd be sodomized, disemboweled and have her entrails hung from the cornice like Christmas lights, all possibly at the hands of ethnic minorities. Oh fuck, she thought.
There are twists of time and space, of vision and reality, which only a dreamer can divine
H.P. Lovecraft
"If I walked in to a bank and 95% of the people inside the bank all carried guns then you stand the risk of getting your ass shot-up. Criminals don't want a hassle. They just want their money and then out the door they go. The more complicated it gets the less likely they want to commit the crime."
I disagree. If I'm going to rob a bank, even 100% of a population carrying won't stop me. I'd fire a rocket or toss a couple grenades into the bank and kill everyone who survived, giving me plenty of time to rob the place unopposed.
Make crime more dangerous and you make criminals more dangerous.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
....Grenades, a Rocket?!? What are you Tommy Vercetti?
Oh and good job killing all of your potential Hostages in the Loudest Way Possible, now the Police know exactly where you are, what you are doing, and have no reason not to storm the building and unload with everything they have.
When you say it like that you make it sound so Sinister...
The police aren't more dangerous then citizens in this scenario, so alerting them doesn't concern me. Taking hostages is too dangerous, I'll bring my own.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
I'm not a bank robber, and chances I'll rob a bank are roughly equal to me coming up with a unifying theory, but that doesn't prevent me from thinking like one.
First priority is elimination of threats, which are the armed employees and customers. Someone will trip an alarm no matter how fast I move or what tactics I'd use. Having worked security in banks gives me this knowledge. So noise is irrelevant. The cops are coming either way.
Hard and fast is the way to go. Faster I'm done, better the odds of breaking the perimetre before the cops can secure it.
And really, hostages don't work anyway. They'll shoot you both. I would.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
And as you left the bank, 300 guns start letting loose on your ass filling your body with enough holes to make you look like Swiss cheese.
Well my comment was put forth with the intent of sarcasm, so sorry if it was too far off the mark. Nevertheless, I saw nothing in the actual quote that would indicate that she would be motivated to engage in behavior that is clearly illegal ( ie, carrying a firearm on school grounds. ) Perhaps you are trying too hard to read between the lines ?
How insightful. So when did you start doing psychological profiles for the FBI ?
Lol, real nice. So you not only rob the bank and have to face the risk of 20 years in prison with the possibility of parole, but then you make sure that you make the national news and move to the top of the most wanted list and the government will use all of their resources to track you down. When you get caught you get to face a shitload of charges leading to multiple consecutive life sentences if not the death penalty outright.
Good thing you aren't a bank robber, you would make a shitty one. Life isn't like the video games.
If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X
"And as you left the bank, 300 guns start letting loose on your ass filling your body with enough holes to make you look like Swiss cheese."
Not unless I spend a couple hours dicking around. If I'm in and out in ten minutes or less, chances are I'll only have to deal with 5 or 6 cops and what few citizens have sights on me outside the perimetre who have more balls than brains. And I'll be wearing tac armour. They're fucked.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
"Lol, real nice. So you not only rob the bank and have to face the risk of 20 years in prison with the possibility of parole, "
Death or life without parole is a more likely sentence in this scenario I think. > >
"but then you make sure that you make~their resources to track you down."
This hypothesis fails to realise that such crimes will be more common, and less newsworthy. And the government can spend whatever it likes. It won't create evidence from thin air. If I get away from the bank, they'll never catch me.
I'd actually make a great bank robber. These tactics I've described would be completely unnecessary in Canada, and most of the 1st world, the US included, at this time. I therefore wouldn't use them. The most effective strategy these days appears to be a simple note, whether or not the robber is armed. Said strategy almost never results in injuries or loss of life. But that strategy cannot work if the person you give the note to is armed.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
Please rationalize this again because you aren't even going to make it in to the bank. You'll step out of the van in your full tac armor and the little old lady with the midnight special will put the snub up against the back of your neck and fire a round in to your head where it ricochets around in the helmet until your brain is like jello pudding. What do you think you are? Ironman?
^lulz.
An explosion goes off at the far end of the local precinct from the bank (etc).
My armoured van screeches to a halt in front of the bank about 5 minutes later. Back and passenger doors already opening to release a fully trained, armed, and armoured group of 6 or so people. 2 stay in the van. Little old lady and anyone else who appears even remotely threatening eat 10-50 rounds to the face in the first 5 seconds of exiting the vehicle. As they die, two of the group run to the doors. One opens a door while the other tosses whatever would be the most effective crowd neutralising agent.
I'm not getting specific because I haven't researched this, but I sure would if I were going to carry this out.
Two hold the doors, two still in the van, four enter the building at approximately 15 seconds after exiting the vehicle. Anyone moving is executed. At approximately 30 seconds the vault is blown open. 2 of the group secure as much profit as possible while the other 6 kill
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
anyone, cops included, who offer threat.
Activate exit strategy asap, end.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
Good luck with that. I'm sure the cops will have a real hard time tracking an assault team in an armored van. You can probably just drive into a garage and paint your van, I'm sure that will confuse them.
If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X
I'm thinking something far more complicated. I also won't pretend that it would be simple or even successful. But it would be no trouble at all getting to that point. The greatest threat in the strategy occurs during the exit.
But that's the way it generally goes. The hardest part of criminal activity to succeed with is the all clear escape.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
Interesting scenarios being tossed around here. Sounds like they could have been episodes from Hawaii Five-O or something....
( by the way Beyond I just purchased two Windham AR's. An "HBC" version and the "SRC" version. )
Nice, I don't have any new acquisitions. I did take a trip to my local defense institute and did some serious lead burning with the guys. They had just purchased the Kriss Super-V .45 SMG, fired a bit at the range and then took it through the live fire house. Sweet handling weapon with very little muzzle climb, only problem was we burned through our ammo too fast
If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X
Possibly. I'm way too old to try to read the mind of a 13 year old. I've been having a hard time with sarcasm lately as well. Either i read it as sarcasm and they're serious or they're serious and I call them on it and they backpedal to sarcasm.
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
Well, ascribe it to limitations of the medium. But why would "backpedaling" be necessary ?
You play too many video games.
lmao
It takes Glock magazines ? Too bad Kendra the Oklahoma girl didn't have a Super-V in 40 caliber for her Glock mags. ( It would be cool chambered in the powerful 10mm, too ...use the mags from my Glock model 20. ...sigh )
"You play too many video games."
Not possibile.
And, as a matter of fact, games have nothing to do with the compilation of the strategy. When I first came up with this the SNES was still new, and there wasn't even an FPS on the market.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
Yeah so after spending a ton of money on the gun you can save $20 on the extra clips but you really want to have the extended clips (of course, having 30 rounds for the Glock never hurts). They are working on the K10 which is supposed to have interchangeable barrels for 9mm, .40 and .45 it was supposed to be released this year, I know they have shown it at a few shows but I don't think they have started full scale production yet. I also have heard rumors that they are working on models that use 12 gauge shotgun ammo which would make for one hell of a defense weapon if they can make it manageable size and have the same recoil reduction results they have with the .45.
If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X
Yeah, I did a quick familiarization about this new weapon system and I believe Wikipedia stated that a semi-auto version might be produced ( 16" barrel ) for civilians who don't want to go through the expense and legal requirements of a full auto.
Even Glock had it's own select fire machine pistol called the G18 but I dont think it ever became popular. I mentioned the 10mm because I knew at one time HK made an MP5-10 and I thought that was an awesome chambering for a sub gun. Basically it was a full auto weapon that could fire 200 grn magnum pistol ammo.
Anyway, you sure get to fire a lot of cool guns.
It's the people who say what they mean and when you call them on how foolish what they're saying is they fall back on "Oh, i was just being sarcastic." It only seems to happen when they get busted.
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
I see. So you are accusing me of being foolish, then. And therefore I should feel compelled to "back pedal" ?
Seriously, you can "call me" out or "bust" me as much as you like if it makes you feel superior. I will continue to say what I want and couch it's intent as I please with or without you approval. I have posted content on this forum that at times verged on emotional insanity and I didn't later backpedal away from it just because someone didn't like it. Get over yourself.
You said you weren't being serious. I'm talking about folks who are consistent in their foolish statements and only claim they were being sarcastic when they're countered with the realities of the situation. If you fit that mold then I'm talking to you. Otherwise no.
As for your compulsions, you can do as you like.
Did you really think I believed she was going to go on a killing spree because she might feel safer with the gun in school then not?
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin