Christianity is losing followers

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Christianity is losing followers

I found this article about how Christianity is losing followers at an alarming rate. It appears that the number of people who claim they have no affiliation to any religion has doubled in the last twenty years.

I believe what is happening is partially because of the economy, but over the years, I've also seen people realize that Christianity doesn't really offer you any thing you can't get on your own. Why pay church collection money when you can use that money on other things and actually get some thing in return? Why get up early and go to church when you can sleep in on weekends?

I also believe the events surrounding churches have taken their toll. Pedophiles in the Catholic faith, hypocrite gay leaders who come out of the closet after years of lying, and religious leaders who drive expensive cars, own expensive homes and wear more gold on their body than Fort Knox. People are starting to see the fallacy of religion.

As time passes, religions will also lose followers because the "grand event" will never come. There will be no "messiah" who comes to heal the sick or defeat evil. As technology increases and people become more interconnected with instant news, instant video and others forms of instant communication, the odds of another "dark ages" will never come. 

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2010/november/27.40.html

 

 

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extinction burst

From learning theory, an extinction burst is when what you used to do plainly does not work and so you do it more.  We all do it.  Your iPod stops working, you give it a tap on the table.  That seemed to work, so you do it the next time and the next.  Until one tap doesn't work and so you give it two taps.  Until you are beating it against the table and you break it.

Same with religion.  It doesn't work.  Christian morals suck.  Murder, mayhem, raping, looting, pillaging, barbecue kittens - just pray to jesus and you will be forgiven.  At least in the jewish tradition, retribution plays a role.  Pray until you turn blue in the face, and most likely, you will not win the lottery.  Pray until you turn blue and your uncle-priest-grandpa-coach will still molest you.  It doesn't work.  And so they pray harder and longer, hoping for a different outcome.

Sounds like insanity to me - and obviously to a lot of other people as well.

 

-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.

"We are entitled to our own opinions. We're not entitled to our own facts"- Al Franken

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digitalbeachbum wrote:I

digitalbeachbum wrote:

I found this article about how Christianity is losing followers at an alarming rate. It appears that the number of people who claim they have no affiliation to any religion has doubled in the last twenty years.

I believe what is happening is partially because of the economy, but over the years, I've also seen people realize that Christianity doesn't really offer you any thing you can't get on your own. Why pay church collection money when you can use that money on other things and actually get some thing in return? Why get up early and go to church when you can sleep in on weekends?

I also believe the events surrounding churches have taken their toll. Pedophiles in the Catholic faith, hypocrite gay leaders who come out of the closet after years of lying, and religious leaders who drive expensive cars, own expensive homes and wear more gold on their body than Fort Knox. People are starting to see the fallacy of religion.

As time passes, religions will also lose followers because the "grand event" will never come. There will be no "messiah" who comes to heal the sick or defeat evil. As technology increases and people become more interconnected with instant news, instant video and others forms of instant communication, the odds of another "dark ages" will never come. 

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2010/november/27.40.html

 

 

What joyous news this holiday season!!  Merry Atheistmas!! LOL!

Click here to find out why Christianity is the biggest fairy tale ever created!! www.nobeliefs.com/exist.htm www.JesusNEVERexisted.com


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Among young adults in the

Among young adults in the U.S., sociologists are seeing a major shift taking place away from Christianity. A faithful response requires that we examine the exodus and ask ourselves some honest questions about why.

Maybe because it's all a bunch of fairy tales written by 40 drunk Greek dudes with the sole purpose of gaining control over segments of society?  Why don't Christians face the REALITY of the situation?

 

 

Click here to find out why Christianity is the biggest fairy tale ever created!! www.nobeliefs.com/exist.htm www.JesusNEVERexisted.com


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JesusNEVERexisted

JesusNEVERexisted wrote:

Among young adults in the U.S., sociologists are seeing a major shift taking place away from Christianity. A faithful response requires that we examine the exodus and ask ourselves some honest questions about why.

Maybe because it's all a bunch of fairy tales written by 40 drunk Greek dudes with the sole purpose of gaining control over segments of society?  Why don't Christians face the REALITY of the situation?

 

 

Are you going to sit here an tell me that "poof" god ejaculate is sufficient to explain Mary getting knocked up?

Are you going to tell me that "poof" is good enough to explain zombie gods who survive rigor mortis?

That's good enough for me. See you in Church on Sunday.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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Fewer Priests

Catholic churches are already encountering priest shortages.  The existing priest population is getting older. Fewer and fewer young men are entering the priesthood.

It's only a matter of time.  Unless another theocratic dark age comes upon western civilization, religion should continue to decline. Today's religions will become tomorrow's ancient mythology and stories.  It happened to the Greek and Norse gods. Yahweh, Jesus, Jehovah and Allah will eventually join them.

Remember how you figured out there is no Santa? Well, their god is just like Santa. They just haven’t figured out he’s not real yet.


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TomJ wrote:Catholic churches

TomJ wrote:

Catholic churches are already encountering priest shortages.  The existing priest population is getting older. Fewer and fewer young men are entering the priesthood.

It's only a matter of time.  Unless another theocratic dark age comes upon western civilization, religion should continue to decline. Today's religions will become tomorrow's ancient mythology and stories.  It happened to the Greek and Norse gods. Yahweh, Jesus, Jehovah and Allah will eventually join them.

It's called KARMA. The demoniac church has really been the most evil institution in the last 2000 years! 

They have condoned and/or ordered murder, rape, torture, slavery, etc.!

Did you know that POPES gave knights permission to MURDER and RAPE?  Even Thomas Jefferson said Christianity is responsible to countless MILLIONS of deaths.

Even the host of the PBS show "Need to Know" recently said Christianity has a history of terror, slavery, and subjugation of women.  If there was true justice then all Christians would be rounded up and severely punished and certain leaders terminated.  The religion itself would be banned for crimes against COUNTLESS other innocent cultures and people for no other reason than they are somebody DIFFERENT!!

It is truth, justice, and the American way that Christianity is reduced to the size of a frickin male glee club in the coming years!

 

 

Click here to find out why Christianity is the biggest fairy tale ever created!! www.nobeliefs.com/exist.htm www.JesusNEVERexisted.com


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Churches (religion) failing

Does someone want to inform my siblings of this? I am tired of biting my tongue when my 7 year old nephew starts talking about (or worse, asking about) god and jeebus. It sickens me to think that my sisters knowing allow their kids anywhere near catholic churches and schools.


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Tadgh wrote:Does someone

Tadgh wrote:

Does someone want to inform my siblings of this? I am tired of biting my tongue when my 7 year old nephew starts talking about (or worse, asking about) god and jeebus. It sickens me to think that my sisters knowing allow their kids anywhere near catholic churches and schools.

 

I was at the family gathering this xmas to eat, drink and be merry when my 3 year old started playing with a nativity scene below the tree (my mom is catholic).

The manger and all the figurines are actually pretty old and probably a collectible in some way, but my mom and sister started to say "oh be careful those are very very old".

My first response is if you have some thing very very old and you want to protect it, why the F do you put it down on ground level where a 3 year old can access it with ease?

My second response was literally, "don't worry honey, those are fictional characters. no harm. no foul."

My sister exploded telling me how the "magi" were real people and it was scientifically proved they came from the library of Alexandria.

Well, I'm no super genius, but I can surprise myself every once in a while, responded, "huh, the library of Alexandria was in Egypt and that is west from Bethlehem. The bible says the wise men came from the East."

She spouted out stuff like, oh they were wandering and didn't arrive from the west, they were actually east when the star showed in the sky".

I didn't want to cause more of a uproar so I kept quiet and 24 hours later I got a 5 page email filled with gibberish about all these facts on how the "magi" were real wise men.

I did some research and of course, the wise men aren't actually wise men. It doesn't say in the original text that these are wise men, but Magi, which in translation means magician (or sorcerer).

There also is nothing in the bible which says (3) men, but it appears people have taken the (3) gifts to mean that there were (3) men.

The list goes on, and on, and on, of contradictions, questionable descriptions and wording though out the story. Let us not forget to mention that the entire story of the birth of Jesus parallel the birth of several dozen other "known figures" who pre-date the time of jesus.

So in a nut shell, I had to block my sister from emailing me. She was going nuts about this stuff and how I needed to teach my daughter the truth.

I believe that if my daughter does eventually grow up to believe this stuff then ok, that's her path in life, but I'm hoping that if I show her all the different religions of the world and how they came to be today, then she will have enough good sense to see that it is no more true that Santa, the Easter Bunny or the Tooth Fairy.

 

Free will is an illusion. People always choose the perceived path of greatest pleasure.

-Scott Adams


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I would agree

Hello,

I would agree that Biblical Christianity (NOT Roman Catholicism) is growing weaker. But this was predicted to happen in Scripture.

This is all part of the coming of "Transnationalism" and the one world economy discussed by Gordon Brown on his first visit to the White House in 2009.

The reason why there are so many CULTS out there (Mormonism, Jehovah Witness, Satanism, Sapient, is because they are the unpaid bills of the church.

So while this small battle was predicted to be lost, the ultimate victory of the war will soon be won, by Jesus Christ the Lord of Lords.

Respectfully,

Jean Chauvin (Jude 3).

A Rational Christian of Intelligence (rare)with a valid and sound justification for my epistemology and a logical refutation for those with logical fallacies and false worldviews upon their normative of thinking in retrospect to objective normative(s). This is only understood via the imago dei in which we all are.

Respectfully,

Jean Chauvin (Jude 3).


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Just one thing.

 

 

 

                      MAGI : does mean ' wisemen' .  The term magician comes from that word. Sorcerer is a midevel term which is a short form of ' source of wisdom'. Meaning they studied  --  at a time when 99.8% of the population was illiterate;  education ment ' magic' to the illiterate.

 

 

                       The Magi in ancient times was the star formation modern astronomers call " Orions Belt"  On  Dec 25  they line up on top of the ' star in the east'  [Sirius   the morning star] telling the ancients that the sun was staying longer each day in the sky.

"Very funny Scotty; now beam down our clothes."

VEGETARIAN: Ancient Hindu word for "lousy hunter"

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If you don't mind.

Jean Chauvin wrote:

Hello,

I would agree that Biblical Christianity (NOT Roman Catholicism) is growing weaker. But this was predicted to happen in Scripture.

This is all part of the coming of "Transnationalism" and the one world economy discussed by Gordon Brown on his first visit to the White House in 2009.

The reason why there are so many CULTS out there (Mormonism, Jehovah Witness, Satanism, Sapient, is because they are the unpaid bills of the church.

So while this small battle was predicted to be lost, the ultimate victory of the war will soon be won, by Jesus Christ the Lord of Lords.

Respectfully,

Jean Chauvin (Jude 3).

 

 

                               Jean Chauvin  would you please take a very long walk off an extremly short pier.

 

 

                                             respectfully

                                                   Jim  (Joe & Ann's third)

"Very funny Scotty; now beam down our clothes."

VEGETARIAN: Ancient Hindu word for "lousy hunter"

If man was formed from dirt, why is there still dirt?


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Jean Chauvin wrote:Hello,I

Jean Chauvin wrote:

Hello,

I would agree that Biblical Christianity (NOT Roman Catholicism) is growing weaker. But this was predicted to happen in Scripture.

This is all part of the coming of "Transnationalism" and the one world economy discussed by Gordon Brown on his first visit to the White House in 2009.

The reason why there are so many CULTS out there (Mormonism, Jehovah Witness, Satanism, Sapient, is because they are the unpaid bills of the church.

So while this small battle was predicted to be lost, the ultimate victory of the war will soon be won, by Jesus Christ the Lord of Lords.

Respectfully,

Jean Chauvin (Jude 3).

 

So, Jean, which date are you hoping to be raptured?  May 21, 2011?  Dec 21, 2012?  Maybe it already happened and you were left behind?

Disrespectfully,

 

CJ

 

-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.

"We are entitled to our own opinions. We're not entitled to our own facts"- Al Franken

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Jean Chauvin wrote:Hello,I

Jean Chauvin wrote:

Hello,

I would agree that Biblical Christianity (NOT Roman Catholicism) is growing weaker. But this was predicted to happen in Scripture.

This is all part of the coming of "Transnationalism" and the one world economy discussed by Gordon Brown on his first visit to the White House in 2009.

The reason why there are so many CULTS out there (Mormonism, Jehovah Witness, Satanism, Sapient, is because they are the unpaid bills of the church.

So while this small battle was predicted to be lost, the ultimate victory of the war will soon be won, by Jesus Christ the Lord of Lords.

Respectfully,

Jean Chauvin (Jude 3).

I'll be more straightforward and helpful than the above 2 posts.

Jean Chauvin, you're downright delusional and need to check into a nuthouse and get some IV Clozaril for your psychotic hallucinations.

Your Jesus is purely MYTHICAL and MYTHICAL characters do NOT show up on earth just as your Jesus NEVER has and NEVER will.  You understand?

Click here to find out why Christianity is the biggest fairy tale ever created!! www.nobeliefs.com/exist.htm www.JesusNEVERexisted.com


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Jeffrick

Jeffrick wrote:

                     MAGI : does mean ' wisemen' .  The term magician comes from that word. Sorcerer is a midevel term which is a short form of ' source of wisdom'. Meaning they studied  --  at a time when 99.8% of the population was illiterate;  education ment ' magic' to the illiterate.

                       The Magi in ancient times was the star formation modern astronomers call " Orions Belt"  On  Dec 25  they line up on top of the ' star in the east'  [Sirius   the morning star] telling the ancients that the sun was staying longer each day in the sky.

Magi is not a term that means "wisemen". Magi is a word, used since at least the 4th century BC, to denote a follower of Zoroaster, or rather, a follower of what the Hellenistic world associated Zoroaster with, which was the ability to read the stars, and manipulate the fate that the stars foretold.

Zoro or Zara was a cult leader of a religion long since lost. The "magi" were men who used Astrology. The term "wise men" is thus ambiguous because back then, yeah, they SEEMED like wise men, but if you use that definition for them, then you can say every person claiming to be a "professional" at Astrology is "wise"?

 

Free will is an illusion. People always choose the perceived path of greatest pleasure.

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Jean Chauvin wrote:So while

Jean Chauvin wrote:

So while this small battle was predicted to be lost, the ultimate victory of the war will soon be won, by Jesus Christ the Lord of Lords.

 

Nothing you posted was worthwhile.

Your jesus will fall at the noodley appendages of The Flying Spaghetti Monster who will smother your lord of lords with spicy Marinara sauce.

Free will is an illusion. People always choose the perceived path of greatest pleasure.

-Scott Adams


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The family

My family is not nearly that annoying, at least where their "faith" is concerned. I think they know that I would simply cut them off entirely if they were to go evangelistic on me. Even the one who seems to be the strongest believer knows that she cannot concern herself with anyone else's beliefs.

As to our resident lunatic, I am trying my hardest to not respond to any of his trolling. It really is not worth my time to argue with the likes of him.


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bound to happen

It is bound to happen when they realize it is cruel to believe that an all-loving creator created this world..So all it this article is doing is confirming an old age believe among philosophers, pschologist (which most already know). 


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I should mention I heard on

I should mention I heard on the news last fall that 80% of churches are shrinking in America and doubt among Christians is at an all time high!!

Great news for us!

Click here to find out why Christianity is the biggest fairy tale ever created!! www.nobeliefs.com/exist.htm www.JesusNEVERexisted.com


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JesusNEVERexisted wrote:I

JesusNEVERexisted wrote:

I should mention I heard on the news last fall that 80% of churches are shrinking in America and doubt among Christians is at an all time high!!

Great news for us!

 

Define "us"?

Define "churches"?

Also, I wouldn't say that it is all "great news" as a shrinking church does not mean people are practicing logic, common sense and have rejected religion. I have several family members who do not attend church but are still looney for Jesus.

 

Free will is an illusion. People always choose the perceived path of greatest pleasure.

-Scott Adams


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digitalbeachbum

digitalbeachbum wrote:

JesusNEVERexisted wrote:

I should mention I heard on the news last fall that 80% of churches are shrinking in America and doubt among Christians is at an all time high!!

Great news for us!

 

Define "us"?

Define "churches"?

Also, I wouldn't say that it is all "great news" as a shrinking church does not mean people are practicing logic, common sense and have rejected religion. I have several family members who do not attend church but are still looney for Jesus.

 

Good point but it's clear the OVERALL interest in Jesus/Christianity is down and that's WHY these crazy evangelicals are getting very vocal and pushy since they're a shrinking minority.

Further proof of growing doubt among Christnuts is over 70% of evangelicals said their path is NOT the only path to god! That's pretty amazing considering how HATEFUL and INTOLERANT the bible is!!

Click here to find out why Christianity is the biggest fairy tale ever created!! www.nobeliefs.com/exist.htm www.JesusNEVERexisted.com


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tenddigitalbeachbum

tend

digitalbeachbum wrote:

JesusNEVERexisted wrote:

I should mention I heard on the news last fall that 80% of churches are shrinking in America and doubt among Christians is at an all time high!!

Great news for us!

 

Define "us"?

Define "churches"?

Also, I wouldn't say that it is all "great news" as a shrinking church does not mean people are practicing logic, common sense and have rejected religion. I have several family members who do not attend church but are still looney for Jesus.

 

 

I'd have to go with DigitalBeachBum on this one. While statistics may indicate that atheists or freethinkers might tend to be more educated than the religious, I wouldn't assume that when more and more religious folks leave their chruches they will join "us" (whoever we are) nor would I assume that atheists are necessarily more intelligent.

I like to think I have above average intellect, and that contributes to my lack of faith, but I can't honestly say that I came to atheism through science (or education.) I am a musician and never really had a special interest in science. While I enjoy Dawkins' books and his arguments, and I am able to follow them for the most part, I don't imagine that this constitutes a scientific education.

If and when the masses ever move on to atheism, it will probably be because that's what the rest of the masses are doing.


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Tadgh wrote:If and when the

Tadgh wrote:

If and when the masses ever move on to atheism, it will probably be because that's what the rest of the masses are doing.

History has shown how mankind discards what is no longer popular or modifies what it needs to continue a belief/faith.

I suspect that in 2,500 years from now, Christianity, Judaism and Islam will all be changed in some or fashion which would make it unrecognizable to the current followers.

 

Free will is an illusion. People always choose the perceived path of greatest pleasure.

-Scott Adams


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digitalbeachbum wrote:Tadgh

digitalbeachbum wrote:

Tadgh wrote:

If and when the masses ever move on to atheism, it will probably be because that's what the rest of the masses are doing.

History has shown how mankind discards what is no longer popular or modifies what it needs to continue a belief/faith.

I suspect that in 2,500 years from now, Christianity, Judaism and Islam will all be changed in some or fashion which would make it unrecognizable to the current followers.

 

I SERIOUSLY doubt those religions will even exist AT ALL 2500 years from now and if they do they will be reduced to small cults.  There was just a survey taken in England last year that revealed Christianity and Judiasm wouldn't even exist there anymore in just 100 years!! In only 100 years they'll be GONE!!  That same survey said Islam will only be slightly up and Buddhism a little up.  It didn't mention any other religions.

So if you see such a TOTAL elimination in just a 100 years they'll be totally/99% wiped out in 2500 years!! I know the survey is not proof but you know the trend in the west is AGAINST religion.  That's why nuts like the evangelicals have gotten more loud and nosy since they know they are a shrinking minority.

Click here to find out why Christianity is the biggest fairy tale ever created!! www.nobeliefs.com/exist.htm www.JesusNEVERexisted.com


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JesusNEVERexisted

JesusNEVERexisted wrote:

digitalbeachbum wrote:

Tadgh wrote:

If and when the masses ever move on to atheism, it will probably be because that's what the rest of the masses are doing.

History has shown how mankind discards what is no longer popular or modifies what it needs to continue a belief/faith.

I suspect that in 2,500 years from now, Christianity, Judaism and Islam will all be changed in some or fashion which would make it unrecognizable to the current followers.

 

I SERIOUSLY doubt those religions will even exist AT ALL 2500 years from now and if they do they will be reduced to small cults.  There was just a survey taken in England last year that revealed Christianity and Judiasm wouldn't even exist there anymore in just 100 years!! In only 100 years they'll be GONE!!  That same survey said Islam will only be slightly up and Buddhism a little up.  It didn't mention any other religions.

So if you see such a TOTAL elimination in just a 100 years they'll be totally/99% wiped out in 2500 years!! I know the survey is not proof but you know the trend in the west is AGAINST religion.  That's why nuts like the evangelicals have gotten more loud and nosy since they know they are a shrinking minority.

Actually, BeachBum might have a point... christianity, islam, etc. may evolve into something complete different over time, in the same way that language does. Latin has changed over the past two millenia and combined with various other languages to 'morph' into what are called the Romantic languages today. The language of the Angles & Saxons has blended and changed until it became today's English. It may well be that religion will change in the same way.


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JesusNEVERexisted wrote:I

JesusNEVERexisted wrote:

I SERIOUSLY doubt those religions will even exist AT ALL 2500 years from now and if they do they will be reduced to small cults.  There was just a survey taken in England last year that revealed Christianity and Judaism wouldn't even exist there anymore in just 100 years!! In only 100 years they'll be GONE!!  That same survey said Islam will only be slightly up and Buddhism a little up.  It didn't mention any other religions.

So if you see such a TOTAL elimination in just a 100 years they'll be totally/99% wiped out in 2500 years!! I know the survey is not proof but you know the trend in the west is AGAINST religion.  That's why nuts like the evangelicals have gotten more loud and nosy since they know they are a shrinking minority.

I call Bullshit on that...

There is no way in 100 years those two religions will not exist in the England.

Please provide sources of the survey so we can see them or quit posting rubbish that sounds like it is coming from a troller.

 

Free will is an illusion. People always choose the perceived path of greatest pleasure.

-Scott Adams


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digitalbeachbum

digitalbeachbum wrote:

JesusNEVERexisted wrote:

I SERIOUSLY doubt those religions will even exist AT ALL 2500 years from now and if they do they will be reduced to small cults.  There was just a survey taken in England last year that revealed Christianity and Judaism wouldn't even exist there anymore in just 100 years!! In only 100 years they'll be GONE!!  That same survey said Islam will only be slightly up and Buddhism a little up.  It didn't mention any other religions.

So if you see such a TOTAL elimination in just a 100 years they'll be totally/99% wiped out in 2500 years!! I know the survey is not proof but you know the trend in the west is AGAINST religion.  That's why nuts like the evangelicals have gotten more loud and nosy since they know they are a shrinking minority.

I call Bullshit on that...

There is no way in 100 years those two religions will not exist in the England.

Please provide sources of the survey so we can see them or quit posting rubbish that sounds like it is coming from a troller.

 

LOL...you realize not EVERYTHING out there ends up on the internet?  Admittedly it's probably less than 5% of groups/organizations that don't have an internet presense but  they still exist.

This was a Jewish group in England who did the study and it was within the last 2 years or so.  I am  NOT going make this up.  Remember it's the Christnut psychos who make things up not us!

They very specifically said Christianity and Judiasm would no longer exist, Islam would be up (not massively up), and Buddhism slightly up.  No other religions were mentioned.

It's actually not THAT surprising because even pro Christian nut Bill O'Reilly said himself that 60% of people in the UK don't even believe in god anymore.  It's 85% in Sweden!!

If anyone is great at research or is/knows a private investigator they could try and find out who exactly this group is.

Click here to find out why Christianity is the biggest fairy tale ever created!! www.nobeliefs.com/exist.htm www.JesusNEVERexisted.com


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JesusNEVERexisted

JesusNEVERexisted wrote:

 

It's actually not THAT surprising because even pro Christian nut Bill O'Reilly said himself that 60% of people in the UK don't even believe in god anymore.  It's 85% in Sweden!!

If anyone is great at research or is/knows a private investigator they could try and find out who exactly this group is.

There were very high rates of Atheism in much of the European countries mentioned in Mathew Alper's book, The God Part of the Brain. (Not the best book written  on the psychological and neurological reasons that people believe in god, but a good starting reference).

As a matter of fact, the comparison on some of the studies (don't have them with me right now, but they are listed in that book and a couple of others that I have read) showed that the countries with the highest secular/Agnostic/Atheist populations also tended to be the most humane and have lower crime, which sort of throws out the stupid argument that theists are always pushing about Hitler/Stalin.

The only real anomaly at the conclusion of each study, was my country, the United States.  Of course, like that other article that I posted in another thread, religion and spirituality are almost a social trend here. Americans actually often lie about how religious that they really are.

Now as far as how long it will take for people to evolve past god belief. I have no way of possibly knowing.

That was one of my harshest criticisms for an otherwise well written book called Why God Won't Go Away. The entire book breaks down all of the neurological reasons why people FEEL the way that they do during mediation and prayer. The book speculates as to the origins of how religious belief came about. (They even had a hypothesis that God  belief was an accidental byproduct of other functions of the human mind, like sex and procreation).

But then, Why God Won't Go Away veers off into an obviously slanted piece of theist agenda writing. It says that if god can only exist within the mind, then we should nurture that. They even try to pass off the notion that religious people live better lives, a notion that I believe is complete and total bunk. Their conclusion seemed to hint that delusion is good if it helps people, a conclusion that I would strongly dispute.

I think the only tools for shedding the god belief is simple education, enlightenment and a strong Atheist public presence to be maintained so  the doubters and agnostics will know they are not alone or going insane.

“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno


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harleysportster

harleysportster wrote:

-religion and spirituality are almost a social trend here. Americans actually often lie about how religious that they really are.

-reasons why people FEEL the way that they do during mediation and prayer.

-should nurture that. They even try to pass off the notion that religious people live better lives, a notion that I believe is complete and total bunk. Their conclusion seemed to hint that delusion is good if it helps people, a conclusion that I would strongly dispute.

I totally agree about the social trend in America. It is a social trend and it is "fashionable" to be religious or spiritual. Very few people are actually faithful to their belief.

I personally don't believe mediation and prayer should be grouped together, but I can see similarities between them.

I've heard this "the delusion is good if it helps people", it's OK up to a certain point, but then people start to read in to the bible and preach to others about how they need to be saved, blah blah blah. It ends up being what I call, "the infinity solution" with the religions. In order to survive they had to add a "convert the non-believer" clause or else it would die off like all the ancient religions. This way the religion always has some nutsack who is willing to go out and convert others because it will make them special in their god's eyes.

Free will is an illusion. People always choose the perceived path of greatest pleasure.

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 I believe that we should

 I believe that we should tax churches.  I still don't understand why recognized religions get tax exemption.  As far as church attendance is concerned, they just need to change it up a little.   Get some new-age vibes in there and your average north-american Joe will eat that shit for lunch.  Churches on one hand gathers the gullible into easily identifiable groups, on the other hand it indoctrinates the young.  

If churches were to be gone tomorrow, I doubt that the overall 'reason' IQ of the population would increase.  Some other BS superstition would rush in to fill the vacuum.  The way I see it at least it's the "Devil you know".  Smiling 

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Quote:
Does someone want to inform my siblings of this? I am tired of biting my tongue when my 7 year old nephew starts talking about (or worse, asking about) god and jeebus. It sickens me to think that my sisters knowing allow their kids anywhere near catholic churches and schools.

  I might be all wrong but something extremely valuable for our understanding I see.  People often unknowingly "inoculate" their young kids-against  religion  with there being no Easter-bunny or Kris Kringle.


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danatemporary wrote:  I

danatemporary wrote:

  I might be all wrong but something extremely valuable for our understanding I see.  People often unknowingly "inoculate" their young kids-against  religion  with there being no Easter-bunny or Kris Kringle.

How do you draw that conclusion ?

“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno


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Ktulu wrote: I believe that

Ktulu wrote:

 I believe that we should tax churches.  I still don't understand why recognized religions get tax exemption.  As far as church attendance is concerned, they just need to change it up a little.   Get some new-age vibes in there and your average north-american Joe will eat that shit for lunch.  Churches on one hand gathers the gullible into easily identifiable groups, on the other hand it indoctrinates the young.  

If churches were to be gone tomorrow, I doubt that the overall 'reason' IQ of the population would increase.  Some other BS superstition would rush in to fill the vacuum.  The way I see it at least it's the "Devil you know".  Smiling 

 

I work in the Real Estate business and during my time in this profession I have met a half dozen people who are a "pastor" or a "minister".

Of those people, all of them have been extremely well off. They drove expensive cars, wore really nice clothes, they had gold on their fingers and around their necks and the homes they were looking at were mansions.

Having the need for them to apply for the houses and fill out applications, I was privy to their income. All of them reported low income and paid next to no taxes because of their low income. Also the churches paid for their homes, their cars and the other items in their lives.

This is a scam.

The churches should be taxed, especially since they are always sticking their noses in to the government and trying to influence our laws and way of living.

 

Free will is an illusion. People always choose the perceived path of greatest pleasure.

-Scott Adams


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digitalbeachbum wrote: I

digitalbeachbum wrote:

 

I work in the Real Estate business and during my time in this profession I have met a half dozen people who are a "pastor" or a "minister".

Of those people, all of them have been extremely well off. They drove expensive cars, wore really nice clothes, they had gold on their fingers and around their necks and the homes they were looking at were mansions.

Having the need for them to apply for the houses and fill out applications, I was privy to their income. All of them reported low income and paid next to no taxes because of their low income. Also the churches paid for their homes, their cars and the other items in their lives.

This is a scam.

The churches should be taxed, especially since they are always sticking their noses in to the government and trying to influence our laws and way of living.

 

100% agree.

“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno


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I'm conflicted. If we tax

I'm conflicted.

 

If we tax churches, we need to tax every other non-profit group, right?  It is only fair.  Under that system tax exemption should only exist for secular charities...feeding the poor, educating the vulnerable, etc.  Portions of the church that performed those functions can be tax free as long as it remains secular.

 

What about things like youth groups though, social clubs, things like that?  We'd need to tax them too, but those are things we probably want to encourage, aren't they?  How can you fairly separate something like a churches faith-based anti violence campaign from a private secular anti-violence foundation?  Well, how do you do it without just saying, "religion is taxed, nothing else is".  Or could you make that blanket statement and be fair?

After all, the particular secular advocacy campaign might be just as irrational and destructive as the religious program, right?

 

Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.


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mellestad wrote:If we tax

mellestad wrote:
If we tax churches, we need to tax every other non-profit group, right?  It is only fair.  Under that system tax exemption should only exist for secular charities...feeding the poor, educating the vulnerable, etc.  Portions of the church that performed those functions can be tax free as long as it remains secular. 

What about things like youth groups though, social clubs, things like that?  We'd need to tax them too, but those are things we probably want to encourage, aren't they?  How can you fairly separate something like a churches faith-based anti violence campaign from a private secular anti-violence foundation?  Well, how do you do it without just saying, "religion is taxed, nothing else is".  Or could you make that blanket statement and be fair?

After all, the particular secular advocacy campaign might be just as irrational and destructive as the religious program, right? 

I suspect that the argument is that non-profits are tax exempt because, after they use their revenue and donations on paying employees and other costs, they're supposed to spend all of their profit on helping people. Most churches and other religious organizations spend donated resources to further their own agenda, in addition to helping people, or even virtually entirely on their own agenda.......and for their own pleasure. Ergo, churches should not be tax exempt.

Unfortunately, this is a greatly oversimplified view of what a non-profit is, legally, and also, there comes a point when what "helps people" depends on your opinion. To illustrate the point, both PETA and the ACLU Foundation many organizations like them are tax exempt. Personally, I would not be against taxing all religious organizations, PETA, and the ACLU. Nevertheless, this is quite a bit more complicated than many people make it out to be, and we have to be objective.

 

 

Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare


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Exactly.  I was thinking

Exactly.  I was thinking about this over lunch.  In an ideal world, you'd analyze this on a case-by-case basis, with tax exemption going to organizations which provide more benefit to society than the sum of likely tax revenue.  Obviously that isn't practical.

 

So, either you have to make generic rules that define tax status, or you just tax everything.  If the former, coming up with a cohesive and rational rule-set might be an interesting exercise.  Honestly, I wouldn't even know where to start...that is far outside my knowledge base.

 

Hmm.  You could just tax everyone but give tax credit for actions within specific categories, maybe that is the simpler solution?  Then you just need to keep an up-to-date list of things.  That still comes back to making a specific exemption exemption for religion though.

 

Honestly, I don't even care about groups, the main thing that bugs me is tax-free money being put to use for conversion efforts, especially when those efforts are hidden behind charity aimed at the vulnerable.

 

Not that any of this is realistic in America.  Can you imagine the shouting?

 

Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.


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A place to start would be

A place to start would be the IRS reporting requirements for 501(c)3 organizations.  As it is now, a church has less paperwork to file and the yearly fee is less than half than that for other charitable organizations.  You can look it up on the IRS web site, they have the forms to fill out and the documentation on line.

Just make churches fill out the same forms, with the same budget information, and the same fees as other charitable organizations.  That would get rid of a lot of the flakes.

 

-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.

"We are entitled to our own opinions. We're not entitled to our own facts"- Al Franken

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mellestad wrote:I'm

mellestad wrote:

I'm conflicted.

If we tax churches, we need to tax every other non-profit group, right?  It is only fair.  Under that system tax exemption should only exist for secular charities...feeding the poor, educating the vulnerable, etc.  Portions of the church that performed those functions can be tax free as long as it remains secular.

What about things like youth groups though, social clubs, things like that?  We'd need to tax them too, but those are things we probably want to encourage, aren't they?  How can you fairly separate something like a churches faith-based anti violence campaign from a private secular anti-violence foundation?  Well, how do you do it without just saying, "religion is taxed, nothing else is".  Or could you make that blanket statement and be fair?

After all, the particular secular advocacy campaign might be just as irrational and destructive as the religious program, right?

My belief is that if you are going to stick your noses in to our government, then you should be taxed. If The Boy's Club of America has a lobbyist working in DC trying to influences bills, laws and other political areas of our government, then we should tax them.

Religions thrive on the lack of taxation, but they influence our government to make favorable laws which are agreeable to their point of views. Take homosexuality for example, the religious people say there should be laws against this because "god" said so; ok, well since any law saying that homosexuality is a crime, unfavorable or equal to any other form of relationship (IE: man and woman) then religions are benefiting from that law for personal reasons.

Marriage and Unions are the same example because "marriage" happens to be a universal term used by more than a man/woman relationship. Marriages work in many different forms and many different religions. If christians say marriage is supposed to be only for a man and a woman, then they exclude all other possible forms of marriage including all other religions who have multiple wives.

And since I'm on the subject, the term marriage and the definition of a marriage of a man and a woman pre-dates the Christian religion, so who the hell are they to determine what is right or wrong when it comes to commitment of two or more people?  

Once that line is crossed they should be taxed.

 

Free will is an illusion. People always choose the perceived path of greatest pleasure.

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mellestad wrote:Exactly.  I

mellestad wrote:

Exactly.  I was thinking about this over lunch.  In an ideal world, you'd analyze this on a case-by-case basis, with tax exemption going to organizations which provide more benefit to society than the sum of likely tax revenue.  Obviously that isn't practical.

 

So, either you have to make generic rules that define tax status, or you just tax everything.  If the former, coming up with a cohesive and rational rule-set might be an interesting exercise.  Honestly, I wouldn't even know where to start...that is far outside my knowledge base.

 

Hmm.  You could just tax everyone but give tax credit for actions within specific categories, maybe that is the simpler solution?  Then you just need to keep an up-to-date list of things.  That still comes back to making a specific exemption exemption for religion though.

 

Honestly, I don't even care about groups, the main thing that bugs me is tax-free money being put to use for conversion efforts, especially when those efforts are hidden behind charity aimed at the vulnerable.

 

Not that any of this is realistic in America.  Can you imagine the shouting?

 

Playing the devil's advocate (really). The church is helping people live for eternity in heaven on steets of gold. The payoff is to the extreme. The government should be paying for everyone to go to church so they can be blessed by Jehovah. They do it essentially in Islamic countries. 

Yeech, why do I have this vile taste in my mouth? Oh yeah, this would be the shouting you would here. 

Good dialogue. Never thought about how difficult this might be, but I like the idea of charity as a tax deduction for churches. I do that. Average citizens do that. For profit organizations do it. Non-profits should do that as well. All non-profits would have to file a corporate tax return. I think that is public isn't it? I bet we would learn a whole lot and it might even wake up some of the "no evidence is ok" believers.

 

Religion Kills !!!

Numbers 31:17-18 - Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

http://jesus-needs-money.blogspot.com/


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 Treat churches as you

 Treat churches as you would any corporation, let them be publicly traded.  Shit I would buy stock.  Tax them accordingly, with like tax deductions for charity work...  it should be simple, privatize the damn things.

"Don't seek these laws to understand. Only the mad can comprehend..." -- George Cosbuc


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Tadgh

Tadgh wrote:

tend

digitalbeachbum wrote:

JesusNEVERexisted wrote:

I should mention I heard on the news last fall that 80% of churches are shrinking in America and doubt among Christians is at an all time high!!

Great news for us!

 

Define "us"?

Define "churches"?

Also, I wouldn't say that it is all "great news" as a shrinking church does not mean people are practicing logic, common sense and have rejected religion. I have several family members who do not attend church but are still looney for Jesus.

 

 

I'd have to go with DigitalBeachBum on this one. While statistics may indicate that atheists or freethinkers might tend to be more educated than the religious, I wouldn't assume that when more and more religious folks leave their chruches they will join "us" (whoever we are) nor would I assume that atheists are necessarily more intelligent.

I like to think I have above average intellect, and that contributes to my lack of faith, but I can't honestly say that I came to atheism through science (or education.) I am a musician and never really had a special interest in science. While I enjoy Dawkins' books and his arguments, and I am able to follow them for the most part, I don't imagine that this constitutes a scientific education.

If and when the masses ever move on to atheism, it will probably be because that's what the rest of the masses are doing.

I'm not saying ex-ChristNUTS will join us when/if they abandon their religion. I'm just saying they are not as passionate as they were generations ago and even Christians say that.  Also DOUBT in Christianity is at an all time high. 

Even a recent survey of evangelicals said that 74% think that theirs is NOT the only path to god.  What about this "one true god" bullshit?? Going to pick and choose what you want to believe as usual?? LMAO!!

I've met many Christians and they are CLEARY not as passionate as their elders.  They even ADMIT they are not as passionate as their grandparents or other elders.  The younger generation know they have to be tolerant of other point of views and many of those other points don't involve mythical Arab gods like Jesus! That is why college campuses are overwhelmingly liberal and really a great place for atheists for the most part.

Unless you are going to some insane U. like Liberty or Jerry Fawell  U. but you have to be certifiable to go to such an insane asylum anyway!

Click here to find out why Christianity is the biggest fairy tale ever created!! www.nobeliefs.com/exist.htm www.JesusNEVERexisted.com


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jesus exist

Jesus exist and when the time comes, you will find out. and all those "christians" who do horribly stupid stuff arent realy christians. you are a christian if you ask for forgivenes and truly believe in Christ, not if you say you do, but dont follow his laws. and he will eventualy come, the only reason followers are drooping is because they were never realy christians, because christ would confort you and help you all the way through, so just pray,believe,and ask for repentence (and mean it)....

God bless all. Amen


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 JesusLovesYouAll1455,How

 JesusLovesYouAll1455,

How do you know you are the "true christian" against all those other "horrible christians"?

I think you are trying to deceive us just like them. You say Jesus exist but provide no evidence just the naked assertion. 

Religion Kills !!!

Numbers 31:17-18 - Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

http://jesus-needs-money.blogspot.com/


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jesus loves you all 1455

jesus loves you all 1455 wrote:

Jesus exist

Not really.

Quote:
and when the time comes, you will find out.

Nah, that's the bitch about it, you and I will both be dead, and I won't get to laugh at you...so I just have to do it now.

Quote:
and all those "christians" who do horribly stupid stuff

Like post semi literate crap on Atheist Forums?

Quote:
arent realy christians.

or Scotsmen...

Quote:
you are a christian if you ask for forgivenes

Try asking him for a spell checker.

Quote:
and truly believe in Christ,

I do believe in spooks, I do, I do...

Quote:
not if you say you do, but dont follow his laws.

But there's only one 'law'... kiss god's ass in just the right spot...

Quote:
and he will eventualy come,

Not just from the ass kiss...perhaps the optional ball massage???

Quote:
the only reason followers are drooping

Their Viagra prescription ran out?

Quote:
is because they were never realy christians,

Ah yes, the great excuse for why it doesn't work... if your baby dies no matter how much you pray, it's because you aren't a REAL christian... (not because god just isn't there...)

Quote:
because christ would confort you and help you all the way through,

Yep, a guy too stupid to avoid getting lynched will be able to help me...

Quote:
so just pray,believe,and ask for repentence (and mean it)....

I can't repent, I never pented in my life...

Quote:
God bless all. Amen


God blows, all...

 

LC >;-}>

 

 

Christianity: A disgusting middle eastern blood cult, based in human sacrifice, with sacraments of cannibalism and vampirism, whose highest icon is of a near naked man hanging in torment from a device of torture.


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All religions are nothing

All religions are nothing more than an opinion.

 


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Mythical Morphing

Curious:  the record of Jehovah in the flesh  stills abides, in fact it is still on the best seller list.  Actually, there are those who will furnish a copy free of charge--in Swahili if you like.  An important point with eternal consequences:  we will all be judged using The Word--whether we believe it or not.

Just so you know:  we are all without excuse.

 

Peace,

Conundrum

signed


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Conundrum101

Conundrum101 wrote:

Curious:  the record of Jehovah in the flesh  stills abides, in fact it is still on the best seller list.  Actually, there are those who will furnish a copy free of charge--in Swahili if you like.  An important point with eternal consequences:  we will all be judged using The Word--whether we believe it or not.

Just so you know:  we are all without excuse.

 

Peace,

Conundrum

I agree, we are without excuse. We know the earth rotates around the sun now so there is no excuse to believe it is flat. We know what the sun is made of now so there is no excuse to think it is a god. We know that cognition only exists in biological evolution, and that non material objects cannot think, so there is no excuse to go around claiming magical men in white robes with magic wands.

We know what DNA is so there is no excuse to go around claiming virgin births. We know what rigor mortis is so there is no excuse to go around claiming human flesh can survive rigor mortis. Thor did not make lightening, you wont get 72 virgins in a fictional after life, and  your pet whim is not real either.

God/s/deities/entities/super natural are merely the product of evolution's side affect of gap filling. It is merely human imagination and wishful thinking.

We have much better knowledge of the nature of reality now to excuse clinging to the tribal gang manuals written by scientifically ignorant people. Our myths humans invent, in our species history will die with us when our species goes extinct because there will be no future generation to sell the myths to.

Our galaxy is billions of years old and our planet too. It takes TWO sets of DNA to make a baby. There is no such thing as godsperm.  You are merely living in the past because the idea of a super hero is appealing to you.

You are the one with no excuse. You believe in a fictional character that never existed. It wasn't true when humans falsely believed that volcanos were gods and you are not doing anything differently.

Peace

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


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digitalbeachbum wrote:All

digitalbeachbum wrote:

All religions are nothing more than an opinion.

 

Don't even give them the dignity of the word "opinion", because an uninformed "opinion" based on a naked assertion is merely fantasy.

"I like this movie." Or," I like this sports team" Or "I like this book" are opinions.

Sky daddy claims are lies people unwittingly inflict themselves with. We are all entitled to make claims, but we are not entitled to our own facts.

Since evolutionary biology is the only place we find the manifestation of cognition(thinking life) any claim of a thinking being with no material is a flat out lie.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


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Conundrum101

Conundrum101 wrote:

Curious:  the record of Jehovah in the flesh  stills abides, in fact it is still on the best seller list.  Actually, there are those who will furnish a copy free of charge--in Swahili if you like.  An important point with eternal consequences:  we will all be judged using The Word--whether we believe it or not.

Just so you know:  we are all without excuse.

 

Peace,

Conundrum

You mean the book of lies, not jehovah.

When you die you'll rot like everything else. But you'll be remembered with scorn and pity, while we actually accomplish the betterment of humanity.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


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Conundrum101

Conundrum101 wrote:

Curious:  the record of Jehovah in the flesh  stills abides, in fact it is still on the best seller list.  Actually, there are those who will furnish a copy free of charge--in Swahili if you like.  An important point with eternal consequences:  we will all be judged using The Word--whether we believe it or not.

Just so you know:  we are all without excuse.

 

Peace,

Conundrum

Curious: the record of Jehovah in the flesh was written by people who were taught by a man who met neither Jesus nor Jehovah.

Your important threat means nothing - not even to you.

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin