Old Seers Corner

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Old Seers Corner

   Being that I'm causing to many threads to be hijacked I find it necessary to establish my own thread. I don't like the idea because in my world we don't engage much in self importance, a little but not much. And this seems to be getting into that area and I'm not comfortable with it.

   Another is- where do I start. so after a bit of deliberation it occurred to me, why not start it where we (our group) started in 1985, and that was with biblical creation.

 To us, as we learned over time, creation is not a material undertaking but rather spiritual. In 1985 we had no idea where this would lead. Personally I/we wasn't out to accomplish anything. It was a simple question given to a group of guys that were into various fields of life's work in which they made their monies for living as we all do, or at least in our case, did.  Having met one of them by a chance meeting as he passed through town we got into a conversation of various interest as people normally do. He informed me of his club/group and among then was a Physicist which peaked my interest as I am also a Physicist, at least to some degree (old school). At that time I was an Atheist considering JC to be a street magician making a living.

 I gave this "Smurf" several questions for The Physics Smurf (he referred to the group as a Smurfdom). The question was --creation doesn't match the laws of physics, things are out of order. And in giving my understanding of what it might be I gave a short list of my suspicions. The main suspicion was that it might be something spiritual because the bible mentions spirituals all over the place, and had no idea what it was all about.

 A few week later as he passed through town again he dropped of a packet at the place we met, a local eatery. I was informed they were going to take on an analysis of creation and that it was something they hadn't seen before, and the Physicist confirmed that it wasn't physics feasible---he sent it to the Psycho Smurfs, That's when it really took off in directions no one suspected.

 They determined it was something mental, and for whatever reason and how they saw it, it was a state of mind. Now here's the deal----IF, we are correct, this understanding of creation totally negates Christianity as is understood by the world. It literally destroys what is understood as Christianity. Because everything in the book is based and constructed and referred to from creation being the focal point. An Apostle refers to- those invisible things of creation which can be clearly seen, meaning- they recognize creation as a spiritual undertaking and that makes it a horse of a different color. As everything else in the book Christianity hinges on Creation, and Christianity is about spiritual things not material things. Then- there is no such thing as Christianity as an operating religion anywhere on planet earth.

Any questions are welcome. 

 

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Semper Fi

Mintyfell wrote:

 Fellow devil here btw. In from 2004-2009. Got out with my body still in one piece, but my brain pretty scattered. Semper Fi marine.

Do or die, Devil dog. 58 - 61. Strap on some mental deuce gear and keep your shit together.

Do not believe a thing I say until you've reasoned it through. This is not about creating followers. You'll have to look forward to being on your own, and at times you'll have to improvise and take individual action, adapt and overcome.

The first thing you should consider is---you are your #1 problem, so stop blaming (if you are) everyone else for problems. Like us, your first objective is you. To do that I suggest that you begin with the beginning.

In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God. The "word" is Adam. The beginning is what creates Adam and company. Adam is derives (physically) from a group of migrants out of Africa and settles some wheres near the Tigress and Euphrates rivers area. They sat and contemplated the selfs and came up with an understanding, and that is the process you see going on at creation (according to us). The main thing is---notice the waters above and below the firmament. They are important, in that the waters above is the animal mind and the waters below are the human mind. The animal mind seeks to be above others. You'll notice also at the time of Nimrod who sought to build a tower above the heights of the heavens. That means he's creating an animal system of endevours known later as "civilization" where all seek to be above others. You'll also notice it didn't do to well and completely flopped, just like any and all civilization to date. The ones today are on the decline and according to us there's no way to stop it at this point.

Consider the word (Adam) etc again. You'll see that there is no deity mentioned because there wasn't one. It is "Adam" that is the entity and focus and nothing else---according to us. First came the physical and then after they figured themselves out they became Adam. Adam is a mental, not a physical, the mental is the person commonly referred to as spiritual. An application of the term "God" really doesn't apply because there's no such word in Hebrew. After you understand this (if you come to believe it) you'll find a lonely feeling showing up in the beanery because it may baffle you that there's no big eye spying down from above. Governments got those things and they're called satellites. Religion use it to control people, because they can't be watching everyone so they get everyone to watch themself and each other by this neat mental trick, so- take charge of yourself.

 

The only possible thing the world needs saving from are those running it.

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Old Seer wrote: Do or die,

Old Seer wrote:

 

Do or die, Devil dog. 58 - 61. Strap on some mental deuce gear and keep your shit together.

Do not believe a thing I say until you've reasoned it through. This is not about creating followers. You'll have to look forward to being on your own, and at times you'll have to improvise and take individual action, adapt and overcome.

The first thing you should consider is---you are your #1 problem, so stop blaming (if you are) everyone else for problems. Like us, your first objective is you. To do that I suggest that you begin with the beginning.

Right on. I stopped blaming a while ago, I prefer living in the solution instead of the problem. And you are right, I'm not in the habit of just blindly believing. 

Old Seer wrote:

 

Consider the word (Adam) etc again. You'll see that there is no deity mentioned because there wasn't one. It is "Adam" that is the entity and focus and nothing else---according to us. First came the physical and then after they figured themselves out they became Adam. Adam is a mental, not a physical, the mental is the person commonly referred to as spiritual. An application of the term "God" really doesn't apply because there's no such word in Hebrew. After you understand this (if you come to believe it) you'll find a lonely feeling showing up in the beanery because it may baffle you that there's no big eye spying down from above. Governments got those things and they're called satellites. Religion use it to control people, because they can't be watching everyone so they get everyone to watch themself and each other by this neat mental trick, so- take charge of yourself.

 

Right, no eye in the sky lol. Figured that one out on my own. When I use the term god, I'm referring to the great everything that is everything and is in everything and yet transcends everything. That is just my take on it(god) and I came up with it pretty much on my own because it makes sense to me. 

 

Okay. So there are some things in the bible that  feel right to me and seem to have the ring of "truth". The gospels feel right for the most part. I like the proverbs and psalms and some of the more poetic books like Ecclesiastes. 

I really can't get past the seemingly craziness of acts. And everything after the gospels feels really anti climactic and kind of forced. And doesn't seem to have anything to do with the Jesus stories or what JC was trying to get people to understand.

I mostly understand where you are coming from about the Adam and self and god thing... I think... Anyways... gotta go.

happy days 


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We.ve learned

not to worry about things in the book that one finds hard to or impossible to figure out. We fairly well know what Revelation is about but it's a tough pickle to chew. Here's the thing- it's not need to know what it's al;l about because the book of Rev isn't necessary to know. What you have there is one person's ideas and use of symbolism to convey what "he" understands. You have to have a wide understanding of the book and the use of the symbols as used in Hebrew history. Without that it's senseless to try to understand it. You'll notice how it has been used as a document that is spread through history-for instance- the antichrist to some is Nero, while to others its someone else. Some say Obama is. Rev, isn't history, it's what happens when the Messiah arrives and nothing in that book has happened as yet. What's happening is the world systems are being destroyed---but be careful. On the firsdt count---people are being destroyed-not physically killed-but for the most part, as we on our team forward---everyone finds out they aren't who they thought they were/are. On the first count it's personal; thing and from there it migrates to everything else. The main thing I'm stressing is- it's not necessary to understand any of it. what's needed is the end times as written by Mathew, Mark, Luke and John.

Another eggzample is the letters known as the Epistles. We had a heck of a time with one of the Smurfs who couldn't understand what they were about. In turn we had quite a time of trying to understand what he was getting at. Here's the thing. To him they went nowhere, and I for one couldn't see what his problem was. It turned out be like this. Notice that there is no formula for Christianity anywhere in the book except Creation itself. And to see Creation as the formula can only be ascertained by knowing and relating other things in the book overall. The main clue is JC being referred to as Adam the 2nd. Another is--John- in the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God. Discount the term "God" as there is no such term used in the book). One would think that JC was in the beginning, but other insights confirm that it's not how this whole thing is working. The Apostles are well into the "beginning", and the whole book hinges on the beginning. There-fore then---the original religion of the Hebrews was ---yup--- a form of Christianity as JC is representative of Adam----samo samo. The Israelis are going to be up in arms when they find that out. That's what makes JC the Messiah--a fella that knows the original rudiments of the Israelite religion---of which they fell away from and are supposed to get back to. The guy "Adam" was/is a particular kind of personage that the Israelites fell away from. So- in order for them to come out right on the deal they have to return from whence they came and what they fell away from---so- it's back to square one.

What they fell away from is Adam who was a downright decent type of guy, and evntaully along come Nimrod who was a class A #1 prick and led everyone one astray for his ideas of what one should be. He is--- the man of sin, not in the end times but --NT reference---> by one man sin came into the world and by one man sin is to be removed. Sin in this case is nothing more then the institution of civilizations by Nimrod which negates the singular personages of the Adamites, and stead of being creatures of Creation they become creatures of Nimrod---central government. 

Not wishing to take up to much site space---you'll have to realize there are things in the book that simply can't be deciphered because one cannot always climb inside someone else's head and see what's going on in there. In the case of Rev. we know bunch but not all. I get bored with all the holy holies and find I have to let it go. Good enough for now. 6-2 and even.<---see Dick Tracey.

The only possible thing the world needs saving from are those running it.

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 It's interestingly funny

 It's interestingly funny that to be an Old Seer one must ignore historical context, addressed audience, proper hebrew/Greek word definitions, and elements nor understood

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


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The old copy and paste trick.

I'm posting this at the request of other Smurfs (Old Seers) so the difference can be seen between our understanding of the book compared to the conventional interpretations. This is taken from the home (opening) page of this site. As you may determine, we don't see the book as anything highly extraodinary, as we see the writers of the book as plain ordinary floks, it's what they knew that is important. I took time (several months) to give this some thought  and decided "what the hell", I've got nothing else to do so  might as well.
This will allow you to compare interpretations.  Smiling

OS where you encounter it = Old Seers.

1-Is the bible literal or metaphorical? Would you say contradictions are metaphorical?
A- As we still do today metaphors are used in  place the actual meanings.  All peoples have used metaphors in their everyday use of language. The book (bible) is just as metaphorical as any societies speech and writings. The metphoricals (symbolics) may be expressing and/or representing  something(s) literal.
2-What if we could show you that the God of the bible lied?
A- One can probably find a lie or two. The book is written by persons that any much different then anyone else on planet earth. People are fallable and make mistakes--the biblical writers were no different. There is one difference at least--they understand "God" differently then Europeans and other societies of the world. The Euro God is based on something as the old Druids had which originates from ignorance of natural environment coupled to superstitions.There's nothing in the book that relates to--this is a book of no mistakes.  The biblical (JC in the NT) statement that says "be perfect as your father is perfect", does not mean that the book is written by perfect writers, and means something else.  The Jews of today do not hold to the same understanding of God as that of their ancestors. The true form of biblical God is "people", not an invisible intellectual being in controlling the universe. The OS cannot find any such claim made in the book as such a person. Such a claim is merely an assumption by ancient religions who attached their beliefs and misknowledges to a book they didn't understand. Even today's Jews don't understand it properly. If their idea is that God is perfest then so would we all be. We'd all be a Pope of some kind. Please excuse the repetivness.
3-Do you think that god is all loving?
A-No, not by a long shot. If that were true we (in biblical forum) all would be  the same and incapable of hate--as the book says, all are made in the image of God, and is both love and hate, good and evil. The Image od God is good and evil themselves. This creates two images for one self to aspire to--good to others, or evil to others---"personality. Simple Pschyciatrics. (according the the Pschyco Smurfs)

4-If god is infinite, is he also hate?
A- Maybe, and yes. The OS (Old Seers) understanding of God is quite different then the worlds so you may have a bit of trouble with this. If God is people then when the universe ends we all go with it---hence, if people are God as "we" find then any knowledgeable God is also gone. The floks that wrote the book had very limited understanding of the material universe--so they would assume that it is eternal--it's not--unless someone can work miracles someday and avert the process. B-God is hate and love--that's all of us. More of this will be covered later. In our understanding of God, all material and physical forces are allso God--God is that which rules. If the universe ends some day then so does God. But, will the universe recreate "or, is there the "multiuniverse". If so, then the universe (forwarding "God" in this sense)  would be infinite---but, only if the universe is. As can be seen we don't understand or see an intelectual all powerful  being as creator of the universe/material--neither does the Book. To construe "God" to be as commonly seen/claimed is a matter of misinterpretation, superstition, and ancient misunderstanding of nature.
5-If god is the creator of all things is he not the creator of evil as well?
A- The Biblical God is not the creator of the material universe, but, good and evil were created "by" the universe and a consequence of it's coming about. It's automatic in nature that there became good and evil. HOWEVER: what "is" good and evil, nothing more then what is helpful and what is harmful. Good and evil only exist because we do--that menas that if the universe has good and evil then it can only exist "if" there is a comprehesion of it--and that takes a brian that has the ability to comprehend good and evil, and can only be so by the effects on "us" who pay the consequenes that "harm and help" cause. Without a brain to comprehend the two it does not exist, in that, the universe cannot help or harm itself. Help (good) and harm (evil) can only apply to a physical/mental being. A mountain falling on another mountain cannot harm either--their shape is merely changed. If not--then harm that pushed the mountain to be was harm in the material land--so what then is good and evil without a being to measure or comprehend it. God and evil exist only because of effects on physical beings. Force then (tectonics) creates the mountain from the land. Force does not harm the land, but changes it. Biblical good and evil applies to the effects of forces on people. The Biblical God then- is the good and evil of ourselvesplus the natural forces applies on us by universal nature. But the biblical God/force is a concern of "us/people", in the good and evil we casue upon each other. <--That is what the biblical God is all about. No remote intelligence needed in this working. Creator in our interpretatiom means  the creator of man/people, and that is a natural process over time from universal creation which today is known as evolution. The forces that created the universe also created us, the spiritual. All force is God beit material or spiritual form--and that is biblical as we found it to be.
6-If god is infinite isn't god love and hate at the same time?
A- Eggzackly- and thats precisely biblical, and what it's all about, the comprehension of the self. We are all aware that we exist, but, is one aware of characteristics that make one a person. There,s nothing we can do about natural universal material good and evil--but there is something we can do about the goods and evils we do to each other---that's the purpose of the book--from ancients who knew.  (infinate depends upon certain scientific factors.) We are all made up of the same personal traits that one is. The book is about "what" traits we apply upon each other and the consequences of social interaction. One consists of good traits and evil traits--no different then the rest of the universe. The outcome of social relations depends upon "which" of one's personal traits are aspired to, and so, the consequences.
7-Why do you think god would create something that he knew ahead of time would occur? Why would he subject himself to that?
A-He didn't. Such a "He" dosen't exist. "He" in this case refers to the nature of "person" put in the masculine reference, as in ancient time the male was dominant, so "God" is put in the image of "male", but not perceived as such. If such a God exists as understood by the religions then that God cannot possibly be male or female--as such is pointed out in the book. Quote- there  is neither male nor female in the kingdom of God. (this is not God in the accepted idea of God, Kingdom =  way, in the context of--the animal kingdom as we refer to it, but is is not a "Kingdom". The book can only be refering to God in this instance as the natural processes that create a person/people/beings--and that had to be evolution, which in turn, evolution was the force/processes/God that created person. The book does not deal with the origin of the body/physical, it deals with person,. and person is a matter of mental characteristics.
8-If god is all knowing then god knows before certain people come into existence that they are going to hell when they die. He knew about it before he created the Universe.
A-This is nothing but religious hooey and connected to the Druid form of religion. Hell equals death and the same as. The Euros interpreted the book to fit their going religion of the time. The universe doesn't know life from death. We are the only factor in the universe to comprehend life and death. Question--what was one before conception. One didn't exist---death is the same condition--if it can be termed a condition. So-one developes from death into life and back again. One cannot exist outside of a brain. At some point after conception a person forms within the brain. That person did not exist previous. The person then, is made within and by the natural process within the brain. Those natural processes are the creator and the father and mother of "being".
9-God is all knowing therefore he knows ahead of time who is going to hell and who is going to heaven. Certain people were born with god knowing they were going to hell. It's hard to reconcile that with all loving. Would you create a child if you knew in advance that child was going to go to hell? (LONG PAUSE AND DODGED ANSWER)
A-More hooey and from impracticle Biblical interpretations. Just more Druid stuff. The "all knowing" is a matter of us-people. This isn't knowing everything in the universe, it's knowing how to live in peace but can't get it all in the same place at the same time. This is a knowing of animal nature verses human nature, but the meaning of the info is skewed to fit the system and mentality in use. (as in the biblical passage, "there is nothing new under the sun". That means, there cannot be anything new about ourselves (mentally and spiritually) that we son't know). Sun in this usage is equal to light (enlightenment). We know, but we can't get our shit together becasue we're going both ways at the same time. We prefer one (human) but have a skewed understanding of what human actually is, and have a preference for the other. The two are different directions of thought/being, so the big social problems can't be changed. 

10-Are there bad parts in the bible? In Leviticus there are things you are supposed to kill your children for, and the new testament tells you that you can be forgiven for these things.
A-Throw the Old Testament out. It has no practical value for living in peace on planet Earth. There are only predictions that apply for the future that have any merit. Those predictions are derived from understanding mental pathways and where they will lead to. If particular thoughts are maintained the eventual outcome will develope. No magic needed. It's merely what pschyciatrists attempt to do when analyzing a person. Particular reasoning leads to either good or evil results--that's the way the God/Concept of the bible works through, "people"= the mind
Bear in mind, the old testament is Old Law, and contains the workings of evil floks upon the masses. Thats basically where civil law is derived from, the evil doers. Many other peoples of ancient times had similar laws and just as drasctic. Even today--chopping off hands for miner thefts is still in some religions. This also shows that religions that claim to be NT biblical can't possibly be so. They don't know the difference OT and NT. There are things in the OT that apply to to NT , but not much, and surely not ancient civil law. That's what the NT is for--to get rid of the OT. The OT more fits the minds of religious leaders then the NT. because they only understand civil process which do not apply in the NT. The NT is about Adam and his likes. Adam did not belong to any civil system.  Civil discourse is about force and counter force, (God and Counter God)(people aganst each other)and that isn't the NT. Religions still exist out of, and on, civil discourse. This is why there's little difference between peoples. Most all people are formed from civil discourse by mandate of the operators/authorities.
11-An atheist that lives a decent good life he'll go to hell but a death row inmate who repents will go to heaven.
A- Well I'll be goda hell. If one looks about the planet they'll find that there is not much difference between peoples except for their traditions--but, they all see life the same. Atheists are no different, and no more good or evil (God) then anyone else. Civil discourse makes everyone close to the same. The difference from Atheists and others is only (from what the Old Seers see)(that's what a Seer is-someone that sees) not believing in something/one  that doesn't exist and those that believe in something/one that doesn't exist. There is no proof Biblical or otherwise that an intellectual being runs the universe. There is no such direct reference in the book to any such personage, and can only be an assumption, or based on ancient superstions.
12-Why should the King James bible be used? The other bibles are made to fix the "errors" in the bible. The manuscripts contradict each other. There is no original one copy of the bible.
A- Any version can be used--but it's better to use older versions. In newest versions things have been changes to fit the civil mind, and the book isn't written by civil minds. The book has been interpreted in error of course, but not enough at this time to change the outcome of it's intent, but it's getting there. Example- In some books the 144 in Rev has been changed to 216 feet. the number 144 has biblical meaning not 216. 144 is the measure of a man, which means 144 is the total number of the contents of good and evil, or, human mind and animal mind. It's the human mind that makes one's self man. According the the ancient writer of the book there are 144 specific things/characteristics that make up one's person in combination of good and evil traits. This is the measure of one's being and has nothing to do with the physical or material realm. The city that is built also uses the 144. In this case the 144 means the measure of a man also. The city is equal to the menaing of "religion" or belief.  The city is built upon the spiritual not the material. It means nothing more then what one, or, the masses believe. This is not a religionas is in effect today. This is "You" and what people believe. This is the mission of the book, the rudiments by which people reactto or regard each other. This is not about building churches, congregations, clergymen, or government. This is the predicted result as the writer seen it for the future.
13-Deutoronomy 17:2-7... Rook interprets to mean that Rational Response Squad hosts should be stoned to death.
A-In the NT there's no stoning anyone. Thats' all gone. It's old hebrew religion non-applical in this time. The Hebrerw religion of past time was little different from any in other regions. There values of life were quite different then todays.

Lawrence interprets the passage to mean this only applies before Jesus came.
A-He's correct on this one. Which also shows to be careful as to what in the OT applies to the NT. Only prophecies can be included in the NT, but, not all. One have to decern "where and how" a predition is to be included into the NT interpretations.
Rook responds with Matthew 23:2-3 John 7:19 and Mark 1:44 to explain that Jesus said you must abide by all of the old testament.

15-We then cover Isaiah 45:7 KJV in which god I form the light and create darkness. I make peace and create evil, I the lord do all these things. We then cover the difference of this passage in 3 different bibles and how it's sugar coated in other newer versions of the bibles.
A-Yup. As previous stated in above info.. God is all things to all people. It is the natural forces we all live in and under. Light in this case is equal to enlightenment, and darkness is equal to ignoance and in many cases is where evil is deived from. The creator in the book is not creator of the material universe. The book's interest is in people and mentalities. There's no doubt that things in the book are sugar coated because European interpretations are greatly faulty, and they have troubles explaining what doesn't match their understandings.

16-There are people that blame the bad things on this planet on atheists, gays, and satan. Meanwhile the bible clearly states it's the lord that does these things.

At 53:30 Lawrence admits there is a flaw in the bible, but it doesn't mean much.
A-Whether there are flaws or not, flaws mainly are due to misinterpretation and misunderstandings of what the writers intend. "The "Lord" that does these things are nothing but "Fate". The very nature of existance is swimming in all that is good and all that is evil--It's the nature of the universe and life. The books main concern is about--the goods and evils we put upon and cause each other. Civilization is a system of perpetrating evil (harm) upon each other to bring about good, hence, we exist under the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, which means, rather then live under the forces of the natural we concoct our own way contrary toi nature, and that woulkd be, the nature of being. Civilization creates it's own beings/persons to serve a central cause. It's a bee hive running on intellectual stupidity. "lord" as used in this case are the foirces we all live under. There are natural and then then there are our own makings.

17-Paraphrasing Lawrence at 58 minutes: In order to believe in the Invisible Pink Unicorn, you need to start by believing in the Invisible Pink Unicorn.
A- That's the most prominent problen in  any of the world religions---blind belief, mostly because of ,again, misunderstanding and wrong interpretaions that require believing something that "is" misunderstood. The problem stems from--the bible and civilization see existance differently, and both are of different states of mind. The history of the Jews matches civilization because Moses instituted civil government. So one must be careful to decipher the difference when interpreting the book. And, Christianity does not match civilized discourse as each is of it's own mental state. Christianity's purpose is the eliminate civilzation, because as we (OS) sees it Christianity and Adam are the same personage, and Adam belonged to no civilization. Which means--any Christian would be able to live in peace without measures of a central cadre of persons deciding what's right and wrong. Christianity is self government via certain principles understood and kept. It's the "human" thing.

17-Why do I have to please an infinite being? He doesn't need to be pleased, he's infinite.
A- We don't. The only beings to please are one's fellow man. Pleasing an infinite being can only be a result of a misunderstanding of "God".  The material part of the universe cannot be pleased or displeased. A passage states (NT)-you can't serve your fellow man without serving "God"/"people".

18-It's reading the bible that led us away from it. Rook wanted to become a Priest a few years before the recording of the show. He was willing to give up sex for God, so he really believed! 1:01:45
A- No need to give up sex for God. If anyone understands the info we present---sex is also a part of God. We don't advise making it God. Sex in the first count is mental, and is a demand put on the person by the physical itself (hormomes). Be aware--hogs have sex too. Also be aware, a person also comes with the "other" body . A theist once said, God gave us sex for our pleasure. If so, then who the hell are the squirrels, they can go nuts over it too?


19-Lawrence can see where we're coming from and can understand why the bible pushed us away but he can't ever do that.
OS- Blind belief coupled to metal habit

20-Jesus says in Luke 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
OS- Proper Christinaity has different social values then the civilized mind/person. One must be willing to change  beliefs and put away the beliefs brought up with. That means you have to believe even thopugh it may require to leave the family. "Hate' is the wrong interpretation here. There can be no requirement in proper Christianty to hate anyone. That's a free choice not a requirement. JC is not making civil law (iron clad) Some Old Seers have this personal experiance, but we don't hate our families. We don't agree with their beliefs but we still fratranize with them. Euro interpretations are made oft time from the Euro mind set of odering people around and force. That's not what's going on here. It's a faulty writing or interpretation.

21-Lawrence responds by bringing up a version of the bible that someone changed to have a totally different sugar coated meaning.
OS- Another example of misunderstanding the purpose of the book.

22-1:07 the bible says if you have the faith you can move mountains, but nobody has ever moved a mountain with their faith. Lawrence says it's more of a spiritual thing.
OS- Once again- the bible is not promoting the physical world. Look at your innner self. This implys mental hardship, in essense, to change personal beliefs. A belied is like a rock in one's mental system, and all the way up to a "mountain sized" belief. The more one believs in something the bigger the rock/mountain gets, the larger the rock the harder it is to move it, in this case, change belief. Rock/mountan can also refer to status as in the flood of Noah. The flood of Noahs time is a mental situation. Waters equals mental. The water covered the highest mountan, right. Mountain in this usage is the people of high status or--leaders, or persons of renown.  The flood of Noah's time is people out of control and killing each other.

23-Jesus committed witchcraft (against Levitican law) by cursing a tree so that no fig could ever grow from it again.
OS- Witchcraft, no. Witchcraft doesn't work so thtat can't be correct. Miricale--MMMM---well, we don't know about miracles. Apparently it's mind over matter but we have no idea if miricales are or aren't. We say he did a miricale but someone has to explain how that can be. There's no need for anyone to believe in miricales, as we see it, nor any requirement to believe in anyone who can or says they can. Apparently he got angry and killed the tree. It shows he is a common ordinary guy that can fly off the handle like anyone else. Likewise when he drove out the money changers from the temple.

Ok fine Lawrence all of these things are metaphors. How do we tell the difference between literal and metaphors. Just the parts are bullshit aren't literal.
OS, metaphors are replacements for what can be or are literal. Metphors are a way of explaining something by the use of a wood string relative or somewhat reletive to subject matter.

1:13 Lawrence can't accept this stuff because it's a faith killer. "Exactly" Lawrence says.
OS- This is common in religions. IE, the "mountain" in explanation 22. Everyone has them.

24-Matthew 10:34 (at 1:15): Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
OS-This isn't a reference to the common understanding of Christianity. The OS doesn't see what's  considered to be Christianity as actual Christianity on the first count. We have a different understanding of it. This refers to the end time prophesies, not as history that has been since year zero AD. After the return of JC (when present as information rather then physical) controversies and enmities are predicted occur. The information details what the cause of social problems are and what will change it. No one will like the idea (We Old Seers alredy know--and don't particularly like it either) But, one will have to be willing to become subject to a different set of values then the one in effect presently. The coming of "the word/knowledge"  will cause great decension in the populations. Anyway, that's what the writers of the NT expect, and what's going on in the book of Rev. is what this is all about. Not many people like making changes, but changes will be necessary if the world is to ever find peace. The sword is symbolic of war (technically disagreements) and spliting the masses. The information is the sword that cuts the public into two parts. It's the same as the-- seperation of the sheep and goats.

25-(at 1:17) Lawrence has an aunt that's an atheist, is she less moral than him? He doesn't admit that she is or isn't.
OS- Everyone is brought up (raised) under the same basic criteria. A civilized mind is a civilized mind. Civilization takes the natural child and form it into what it deems a person should be in accordance with mandates of the few that rule the many. Basically, everyone becomes as the ones that rule. Morals are relationship regulators, and extend from ones will not to harm others. But, the world has a system that everyone harms everyone for gain, mutually placing everyone in hardship---which --- which makes a basically immoral system. Thois is mone reason the system cannot fix itself, as proff is from historyu the civilization today is no different then 10000 years ago. being all are formed by government mandate then no one's morals are any much different then anyone else's. So, Aheists are just as moral as anyone else. Christianity is what is "moral/human". If Christianity as it is presently isn't any more moral then any other religion or people--then it can't possibly be Christianity. Human is what is moral--everything else isn't. Human is of "one" set of values, not a whole mess of things. So, those claiming to be Christian aren't. Lawrence's failure to answer this question proves it.
 

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I think you are posting

I think you are posting replies in a dead thread.

 


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I think he views this as an

I think he views this as an archive of sorts.

I was kinda tempted to read that post, but I saw a giant wall of text and read far enough to see it was about the bible and decided I had better things to do.

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Actually-

I didn't know what to do with it. I didn't want to put it in a new thread , those unfamiliar with it wouldn't know what it's about  so I put it where all the other stuff is. Putting it in a new thread hangs it out in the middle of nowhere. Bear in mind--- having my own thread wasn't my idea. Smiling

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For any interested.


‎8/‎25/‎2016

The 666

First of all, be aware that the interpretation of The Old Seers relys on Biblical Creation being interpreted as a Spitritual process not a making of a material universe. From within this mode of thinking creation becomes the prime interpreter of the book that leads to a vastly different understanding of the Bible, and Chrisitianity. The Old Seers see creation and Christianity to be the same thing, and, is also the Adam

The Biblical 666 is derived , as many interpretations are, (we've found)from the Hebrew Numeric Alphabet. The number 666 is derived from the 6th letter/number, meaning Hook, Flesh, Sin, Connect, and we included on our own (The Old Seers) Materialism.
The reason this number has been troublesom and misunderstood by religions is---what is considered Christianity in the world , simply isn't. That's why the worlds idea of Christianity hasn't brought about the world that JC predicted.
The recent Catholic interpretation of the number is Nero, or some other person in past history. The book of Rev. is where the number extends from, but in our interpretation the book of Rev does not begin until the return of JC. The reason JC returns is--becaue the return brings and understanding of true Christianity which the world has not had since about 100 AD. We know Christianity was over for sure at the time of Emporer Constantine. Emperors cannot be Christian, and a Christian cannot be an emperor.
 
To understand the number 666 one has to know what the book predicts for the end time. So, lets go over some predictions.
 The original prediction goes way back to the beginning where it's stated, you will crush his head and he will bruse your heel. This means there will come a time after the fall that unknown things will become understood. That would be the coming of the Messiah, The Messiah will have troubles being understood becasue the world is existing under it's mental perimiters, and the Messiah;s mentality is very different. The two are not compatable, and what the afore statement means is the people will have a hard time understanding the new information. The "He" in this case is not a physical individual, so the Messiah is "knowledge" ‎of something lost. What the statement also means is, "a Messiah will come and return things to their normal state". But the brusing of the heel means the information will have a troubled process taking hold in society, as in, if one heel is bruised one will have troubles progressing or, walking and moving forward. The knowledge will spred into the populations slowly. What will be crushed is the head "head of the Serpent" Which technically is the worlds Powers, Principalities, and Authorities of all religions and governments as it is they that lead the world keeping it in it's state of affairs.

The book of Daniel has predictions, but they are rather complicated to explain, and, we don't really know enough about them to comment.
In the Gospels JC predicts the "end of the age". One item is when the Apostles point out to him the finery of the temple and it's buildings saying, you see all this do you not, but I tell you there will come a day when there will not one stone left that will not be thrown down.  What JC is referring to is, all religions and governments will eventually be proved false and unable to solve the "Human" problems.
 
One can go to the gospels and read what JC and the Apostles say according to the time of the end.
 
To understand the 666 one must have  proper knowledge of what Christianity is, or supposed to be. JC knew that what he represents would become lost as entities stepped in and took over nullifying true Christianity, and this is why he predicts the end times as a happening in the future from his time.
The properties of Christianity that apply mostly is the understanding of "person". In true Christianity a person is not the physical body, as the world links person and body into one. But, true Christianity sees them separately. When one sees the physical (body) as person they are placing the emphasis on the physical, where-as in Christianity that would be considered the superficial and carnal mind. That means that one then, sees another from a physical sight rather then a spiritual sight, when in prop[er Christianity one sees others from a spiritual mind set. This means that the "person" is the invisible that inhabits the body and it's the invisible that is the person. In true Christianity the body belongs to the material part of the universe. This is where the 666 begins to be understood.

At a future time when the Book of Revelation begins the end times one requirement of true Christianity is the put away worship of body and material (biblically referred to as, adoring the works of their hands) and recognize the person as primary over the body and material wealth. The understanding of this number is found in the Hebrew Numerical Alphabet as the number 6. The number means Hook, Connect, Sin, and Flesh.
Upon entering the book of Rev. the masses by understanding true Christianity begin to change and migrate away from religion and governments becasue of the knowledge that they both are the source and cause of the world problems, and take on giving up on recognizing the body as person, as in, giving up the fleshly mind.

After a while, according to the predictions, many begin to fall away from the new knowledge (there shall come a falling away first, and that man of sin will be seen etc) and revert back to the Fleshy mind. Considering that religions and governments have been done away with and are relatively inert there is nothing to keep them from destroying each other, and so they do in an event called Armageddon.
What one needs to understand how this will happen is to consider that a Christian rules the self from new human principles negating any need for external government. One becomes a ruler of the self. If after those principals have been undertaken and then fell away from, the inhabitants are free to become whatever they want and are no longer under civil law and regulation. The ones that don't wish to change see the signs of the Armageddon evnt in progress to take place and leave the cities and go out into the countryside for safety.

This all comes about from the prospect that Christianity was lost and returns, and those thinking they were Christian find they weren't, thus then, the Book of Revelation begins. The actual beginning of the new ways takes place after Armageddon when all those that opposed take themselves away.
There are other specifications for proper Christianity but they won't be taken up here, this is to explain the 666, the fleshly materialistic mind that the world has at present, then is put away, and returns to destroy all those unwilling to live in peace. From the mind of the preference of flesh and material over the spiritual is the basis of the world problems. Armageddon isn't atomic warfare or the destruction of the planet as many believe. 
So we have the number 6 (Vau) meaning Hook, Connect, Sin, Flesh. As in thengs can be hooked together which can explain "connect" . But as can be also understood, "hooked on the Flesh". For an explaination of "sin"- sin merely means immoral. Flesh and material in themselves cannot be sin- sin is religated to Person" meaning the carnal mind is an immoral person. IE, Ones body cannot be immoral, only the person can, so to be hooked on the flesh would be an immoral person. Christianity has a different understanding of "moral", which amounts to any continuous state of mind toward the material and the physical placed to be of greater importance then "person", is then considered "immoral. This is the main reason that Christianity have not been understood, as a  Christian is a different person then a civilized person. many interpretaions of numbers in the book can be a matter of the numeric alphabet, especially in the book of revelation where it is used exclusively.

Predictions/prophesies are very easily made by knowing the result of any particular thought line. If a mind set is maintained long enough it will have predeictable results. What we're seeing is, if the world maintains it's present thought line the consequences are a killoff as in the time of Noah and hardly anyone is left, OR, go to the bible way (Armageddon) and maybe about 40% will be left. Smiling

What this is about is---The Old Seers interpretation VS theirs. Let's see who'll be right.

I got into this because of a post I came across on this site, the 666 challenge, which brought this to mind even though this hasn't anything to do with the challenge.

I've also been wondering why Theists haven't been challenging our knowledge. Maybe they can't.

 

8/31

This also brings up the question---What is original sin?

Considering that we are all living in a world of the 666 presently, the writers of the book predict that it will be taken away and replaced by true Christianity. But then again it returns to cause the end time of Armageddon. The 666 is the original sin that all are formed with by nature. It is merely what the book renders  as, the animal mind. We are all made according to (this is in biblical forum) two natures, the good guy and the bad guy. At one time the Adamites were no different then anyone else on the planet. They got thier heads together and figured ( It's the enlightenment in the 1st day of creation)out the good guy bad guy setup we all are. From that information they chose to be the good guy, but wirh flaws. After much time a bad guy (Nimrod shows up and changes everyoine back to the origin that they came from. Another explanation of original sin is--dust of the ground, a state of mind of nonunderstanding.

So, original sin is nothing more then a part of one's own nature, being, the animal mind. A proper Christian on the other hand is one who put away the animal mind and becomes as Adam, which is the essence of the book to begin with--to return to whence Adam was.

Firstly, we are all products of original sin which is the 666. Ten to put away the  the carnal mind, one is no longer under the 666 which is the carnal mind. The book predicts that the world will cahnge and get rid of the carnasl mind, but it also predicts that the greater number (as JC said- the love of the greater number will turn cold) will fall away and return to the 666---carnal mind. This is the beast that was, still is, and will be again (returns).

So, why is this number mysterious. Becasue the world doesn't know itself and it's immorality. The immorality of the world has become it's norm, and it doesn't recognize itself. Adam  came from an immoral being, became moral, and Nimrod in his invention of civil government reinstalled immorality because it's pleasent to the sight (mental) abd good for food (food for thought). Immorallity and morality together makes for more fun, and after a time of this process immoralty becomes the unknown. Sin and immorality are the same thing. Now, this is looking from the prospectus of the writers of the book. Technically then, the animal mind is sin, or, immoral. A dog is immoral because it sees other dogs from a physical/fleshly mental view. And also, people seeing each other the same as dogs see dogs also are immoral. A person is the spiritual in the bible's minds eye, and a Christian then is one who sees people as the spiritual not the physical.

Then there is "Mystery" Babylon the great. Which is no mystery to us Old Seers because Nimrod, the founder of the babylonian system of central government, where-by all have to see people from physical recognition, and puts the Adamites back to square one, the carnal mind. A civilization cannot exist unless it operates from the carnal mind, because it dictates what it's ideas of people are to be, technically an artificial person. Thsi is express by, " as it has been said, as Nimrod a mighty hunter before the lord. The lord in this case is "the people' what this means is--everyone is forces to become like Nimrod himself--a carnal mind. From then on it's cebral governments that determine what people are to be by it's own mandates.

Look up in Blacks Law Dictionary, the meaning of artificial person, and natural person. This shows that a Christian is a natural person as Adam wasn'r under any civilization until Nimrod. If a Christian is the same as Adam that would mean that a civilized person is not. Nimrod changes the people from natural to artificial.

Also look up "Human". You won't find a legal discription of human, because if there was, it would negate civilization. There's no way to legally detemine "Human" without destorying civilization. The only description of human in legal terms would only end up being right, and being right would show that no one is human. What you will find is "Inhuman, and Humane. But, how can there be a legal definition of Inhuman and humane without there being a definition of Human, because any definition of human (as mentioned) can only turn up right and negate all civil law. The term "human" can have only one "legal" definition. This also means that the worlds concept of human is faulty. It can be anything one wants it to be, But, to determine a legal discription and definition it can be only one thing. And that is, Human is opposite that which is animal.  And, from all evidence that can be acquired it could only be determines that what you have there is an "animal operated" society.

What this all amounts to is, there are no Christians on planet earth, because if there were they would know these things. From this infromation you now can remove social problems. Smiling

OK so now contemplate the beast that was, is not, and yet is in terms of the book of Rev. It's still all something for the future---if the book has got it right, and if our interpretation is correct. Now you know what original sin is. It's nothing more then the nature of the animal which we all have been given by evolution. But don't leave out that you also have the "human" (good guy) also given to you by the nature--evoluton.

So, why didn't Christianity take hold back in the day. Well, back then (and maybe today yet) you don't go into Rome preaching a new religion without getting yourself killed. And, the bad guys took over, and JC knew they would, that's way he predicted a return.  The Messiah comes as knowledge, not as a physical.

 







 

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Have U ever considered pictorial representations and symbols ?

  >>

    Curious of me.   (?)  Have you ever considered pictorial representations and symbols ? 

    

   >> Query

    According to the holy scriptures, the prophets lay out the plans that  G-d has for His holy people in this world, right ?

 






 

 

 

 


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Hi Dana

It's good to see you around. Nope, I haven't considered useing sumbols. I think they may be hard for others to understand, and, I'd have a problem with choosing which to use.

God's People. We (Old Seers) intrpret "God" differently then the worlds people. God to us is "the powers thet rule". It is physics thet rule the material universe so in that eyesight the laws of physics is God. Being that the universe consists of all powers an operate and controls all things as such any power that rules is "God". On the people (Mental) side people are ruled by the nature of "being", which is a matter of  natural self rule, or, the rule over people by individuals as "government". People are ruled by 2 forces- ones harmless side ans one's harmful side. The world is ruled by tha preference to the harmful side, so when you say "God's People", we have to consider that you mean the side that rules the people of the world.

So- to us the side that rules is based in the inhumane, so then who/what is refered to when one says "God's people". In terms of biblical application there are no "God's people from the harmless side----so there are no Christians as I've often said. All people on the planet are ruled mostly from the harmful side as the basics of relationships. When one is ruled by the harmless side (the humane) that one is the same as a Christian, but there are no such people except in small groups mainly but they would be unknown. The Old Seers are ruled by natures harmless side,but, are always interferred with by those of the other side. So, there are no Christians on the planet at this time and it will be so until each understands.

If you recall, I've stsed many times this will be hard to understand by floks as they are unfamiliar with other ways of being from being ruled by th elder of society that are not undersatanding also. The Romans had that problem when it came to understanding the Christians of their time. Christians didn't fit the main stream of rsoning that the Romans had and were seen as strange. It's all a matter of mental (pschiatry) fixation.

God's people are yet to come about, but that's what the biblical time of the end is about.

Take Care

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Can they make such a difference . . . Hhmmm ?!

Can they make such a difference . . . Hhmmm ?!

 

  

  HEY Old Seer::

    I for one am thankful and glad to be able to still stop by briefly to say Hey.  What is the difference with  the Apostasy, I mean, such  words as do describe this abandonment of cardinal church doctrine and teaching, in comparison to the Smurfs ?

  Further curious about all the  things  you miss,  can they make such a difference.

  

Old_Seer wrote:
other ways of being from being ruled by th elders of society

 

 The Book of Jude states :"These are the men who are hidden reefs in your love feasts when they feast with you without fear, caring for themselves; clouds without water, carried along by winds; autumn trees without fruit, doubly dead, uprooted"


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Hi again, Dana

Sorry things take so long. I'm wintering at Quartzsite Az at the moment and can't ost long, the battery dosen't have anough umph---I have to be online at the local mcdonalds.

OK, Lemme see, Apostacy. ---There wil be a falling away at some point/time in the future. But, JC has to arrive first and re-establish rightfull Christianity, which there after proper the falling away comes about. Bear in mind, all this time I've been on this site I've maintained that what is in the worlf today as Christianity ---isint--and thats the reason that "proper" Christianity is to become known---because it hasn't been since about 100 AD, and, for sure not after 350 AD. At 350 AD Constantine installed his version of Christianity, which we Old Seers "know" that his efforts were in falsehood---because Emporer cannot be Chriatian and a Christian cannot become an emporoer without having to give up Christian principles. One main priciple is to give up (all Proper Christians) all power and authority over others. As any time stated by me over the course of being here--Christianity and Human are the same things and principles. An Emporer does not rule by Human priciples, but rather animal pricilples and Christianity/Human is a set if values under which one sets aside the animal mental priciples.

OK, so what the deuce does this have to do with "Apostacy". Well. after the re-introduction of Proper Human priciples which the world isn't operating under at this time --ther comes a time "after" the re-installation of Christian priciples the masses in generaL try to go back to their old way---and fail-- causing what the book terms as Armageddon (self destruction) (battery is low--will continue later if you choose) .

"there will come a falling away first, then the people of sin will be seen going at each other. Bear in mind--there will be no government or powers to stop them as The coming of the knowledge took the powers away setting the people free to become whatever they pursue. It's a simple matter of returning to "natural Man" which means unencumbered by civil rule. People return to as the time of Noah at which time thery weren't under civil rule.    I'll be  back later.

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Apostacy

According to us Old Seers (for claification) there's been an apostacy about 100 to 355 Ad, but that's not the one predicted in the Book of Rev. or other applications. JC prdicted that the "word" would disapear and appear again causing the end times. The apostacy of concern (in one letter to the Thessaloinans) is the one at the end times.

We say, that (for instance) there are no true Christians at this time due to the loss of the word back then. What happens when the word re-appears everyone finds they haven't been true Christians, and this is what causes the rukus at the beginning of the end times. The actual end times is Armageddon causes by a falling away "after" the wrod has re-arrived. What this looks like is--the masses find that all religions and governments are at fault for the troubles in the world caused by social descrepences through the agses, and as a result the masses discard both religion and governments. After some time the masses begin to fall away from the word and go berzerco and as in the time of Noah ,being there is no restraint (that which restraineth) by reliogions or government they kill each other. JC--the hand of every man will be against the other, and by the hand of man shall man's blood be shed. < ----- that is armageddon) The falling away is the apostacy in question, not the one back in history. There's about 30 or less years as of todays doings that it should come about. We predicted 40 years from 2000. There can be no definete date stated as it will be however long it takes for the masses to understand the new info and make changes to their lives, and then, how long it will be before armageddon. Being that the first requirement is present (the coming of the information) the rest can't be to far off in time. It'll be up to the masses.

More about God,s people. It is the coming of the word that Gods people are gathered, and that can be only at the outset of the end times. It is not the Jews, but only those that make and maintain the changes to thei lives according to the new information (word). These people do not exist at this time. All religions and governments will have passed away, Yup, "religions".  Christianity, (being Human) is not a religion, it is a kind of person.  Smiling

 

 

The only possible thing the world needs saving from are those running it.

https://sites.google.com/site/oldseers

Knowledge trumps faith and I'm not a Theist

Lies are nothing more then falsehoods searching for the truth