Old Seers Corner
Being that I'm causing to many threads to be hijacked I find it necessary to establish my own thread. I don't like the idea because in my world we don't engage much in self importance, a little but not much. And this seems to be getting into that area and I'm not comfortable with it.
Another is- where do I start. so after a bit of deliberation it occurred to me, why not start it where we (our group) started in 1985, and that was with biblical creation.
To us, as we learned over time, creation is not a material undertaking but rather spiritual. In 1985 we had no idea where this would lead. Personally I/we wasn't out to accomplish anything. It was a simple question given to a group of guys that were into various fields of life's work in which they made their monies for living as we all do, or at least in our case, did. Having met one of them by a chance meeting as he passed through town we got into a conversation of various interest as people normally do. He informed me of his club/group and among then was a Physicist which peaked my interest as I am also a Physicist, at least to some degree (old school). At that time I was an Atheist considering JC to be a street magician making a living.
I gave this "Smurf" several questions for The Physics Smurf (he referred to the group as a Smurfdom). The question was --creation doesn't match the laws of physics, things are out of order. And in giving my understanding of what it might be I gave a short list of my suspicions. The main suspicion was that it might be something spiritual because the bible mentions spirituals all over the place, and had no idea what it was all about.
A few week later as he passed through town again he dropped of a packet at the place we met, a local eatery. I was informed they were going to take on an analysis of creation and that it was something they hadn't seen before, and the Physicist confirmed that it wasn't physics feasible---he sent it to the Psycho Smurfs, That's when it really took off in directions no one suspected.
They determined it was something mental, and for whatever reason and how they saw it, it was a state of mind. Now here's the deal----IF, we are correct, this understanding of creation totally negates Christianity as is understood by the world. It literally destroys what is understood as Christianity. Because everything in the book is based and constructed and referred to from creation being the focal point. An Apostle refers to- those invisible things of creation which can be clearly seen, meaning- they recognize creation as a spiritual undertaking and that makes it a horse of a different color. As everything else in the book Christianity hinges on Creation, and Christianity is about spiritual things not material things. Then- there is no such thing as Christianity as an operating religion anywhere on planet earth.
Any questions are welcome.
The only possible thing the world needs saving from are those running it.
https://sites.google.com/site/oldseers
Knowledge trumps faith and I'm not a Theist
Lies are nothing more then falsehoods searching for the truth
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Old Seer wrote:What you're dealing with there is the old testament. The OT isn't Christianity, it's the Hebrew civil system. This is the mistake the Europeans made/make. If one is to go by the OT then there's no point in having the NT. The reason we see the Euros use the OT is because it matches "their" idea of controlling a society.
everything is due to creation. You'll find it's reference used throughout the book. The book of Ezekiel- the vision that includes the lion, eagle/vulture, calf, face. The lion in creation = creeping thing,cat,predator. The eagle,=fowls of the air/firmament, status. The calf=innocent party/people/worker/ox. The face= nimrod, phony/liar/false front, false image, looking human but working the animal behind, the ruling class. This whole vision is symbolic of civilization. Namely, a class system run by liars.
You've previously used the old testament to provide examples of the hidden message. If you don't use it all, then you're just cherry picking. So my question stands - how does the Zechariah quote fit into your analysis?
(You have an excellent question. I'm glad you asked this)
in the OT and in Hebrew history that pertain to the coming of a Messiah and or the end times. But not all in the OT applies.
I can't see how your present OT passage is reference is in conjunction with JC or the end times. But the Hebrew religion as a whole is dependent on Creation as the main construction point, as well as Christianity.
Here's one (off hand) Go to OT Mali chi Ch 2:3. The Levites/priests will have dung on their faces.
OK, here's how it works (bear in mind we do not know every last detail of the book), Once one reaches a certain amount of knowledge on what the book is about one sees the intended mission. In this case the dung on their faces pertains to the end time. The Levites were the priestly class/tribe in the construction of Hebrew society. As in the general use of anyone,s language their terminology is used. In this case- Levite is equal to religious leader or clergymen in English. In the end time it is proven or shown that the world is on the wrong course--and who's leading the world---religious and secular leaders. When the people at large see the fallacy of how this is run the leaders will--have shit on there faces. It is a common term used today for a liar, hypocrite, or deceiver that's been exposed, and that is government and religious leaders the world over. With all their high kaflootinness not a single social problem has ever been solved---and over a time span of 6000 years. The knowledge of the book then, can be transferred to any society or civilization as all are constructed the same, and the propagation and maintenance is done by leaders, in today's world -religious and secular. But in the Hebrew society there was no secular as it was all religion---however, in the Hebrew mind there is no difference between civil and secular--they are both considered the same. And they are right. What we consider the "secular" is still a religion, and nothing more then the masses following those who've taken the place of God (overriding self rule). The purpose of those who lead in religion and civil government are exactly the same. Power over the masses prevails by belief--in any case- a belief in those who run the show. All religion of today is nothing but mini civilizations within the big circus tent. The Vatican has pulled the trick of creating itself as a mini civilization on religious grounds--it's all the same. Everyone one has become victims of terminology. Control of the masses partially is done by skewing words. Who controls the meaning of words controls the people.
Here's another for the end time---I will confound the wisdom of the wise and make fools out of the scholars. How many theologians are the in the world, and how long have there been theologians. The only reason there's theologians is because they haven't got it right. Consider the absurdity---people are following those who don't know. The same with government---all government has to operate on is---If.
I see all the book of Malachi as dealing with the end times. I can understand it but changing it from the Hebrew mentality to Euro mentality is mind boggling. The two thought processes and terminologies are different. It's hell on wheels to translate it into Euro thinking.
The "I" in Malachi can be the same as--- the people of the end times--- as in Hebrew and Christianity it's people that are God. But Malachi is dealing with his own people but the undersatnding can be transferred to any on the planet. What goes for Hebrew society goes for all other societies, as they all involve the same components.
The only possible thing the world needs saving from are those running it.
https://sites.google.com/site/oldseers
Knowledge trumps faith and I'm not a Theist
Lies are nothing more then falsehoods searching for the truth
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I have never been fond of playing with my toes in a corner. You will have to find someone else to play with.
-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.
"We are entitled to our own opinions. We're not entitled to our own facts"- Al Franken
"If death isn't sweet oblivion, I will be severely disappointed" - Ruth M.
If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord." When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through. (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)
Just curious what you think of this passage - you say an understanding of the book will lead to a peaceful life. I say this book proposes evil as acceptable and warranted in many places.. Should your parents ever kill you? What is your hidden meaning metaphor for 'thrust him through"?
I think if you wanted to choose documents that lead to a peaceful life, a couple of better options would be Jain Agamas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jain_Agamas) or Buddhist sutras.. They have far less rape, pillage, war and smiting.
(edit: spelling)
What you're dealing with there is the old testament. The OT isn't Christianity, it's the Hebrew civil system. This is the mistake the Europeans made/make. If one is to go by the OT then there's no point in having the NT. The reason we see the Euros use the OT is because it matches "their" idea of controlling a society. All civilizations exist on the same premise, a few decide for the many. In "real/proper Christianity" it isn't so. There is no central government and authority and power seeking over others and is given up---voluntarily, because it is understood that civil government cannot maintain a peaceful people. No matter how altruistic a civilization begins it will always leaves doors open for the evil (more animalistic) ones in society to take over. On one hand the concept of "good and evil" is not understood, and at the same time it is evil to overtake and exert power over others. Civil peoples don't see power seeking over others as immoral. In Christianity it is. The precepts of civilization is the animal concepts of force and counter force. History repeats because the animal mentality will always produce the same results. Proper and true Christianity is the process of removing the animal concept and living with the good only. Instead of being controlled by a few that decide right and wrong, good and evil, one returns to the natural run of good and evil rather then living under contrived good and evil. Good and evil are natural consequences and one has only a limited say in whether a good or evil will come about. In Christianity it's natural good and evil that is understood to be God, not other people creating it for you. If you let others create good and evil then it's they that are God, as God is that which is all good and all that is evil. It amounts to nothing more then ourselves. If the deciding is left to a few then good and evil "is" us---is it not. Then- that's God/us.
As one can see then that "God" under Christianity is the opposite of what a Euro God is. God and "way" are one and the same. Christianity is one "way", and civil authorities are the other "Way". One way is the animal forces and the other is the human forces. Peace can only be obtained from "one" of the "Ways" -- and each is a way of thinking and "being". But one must understand that evil can be produced by good and good can be the consequence of evil and it is naturally that "way". So, Christianity is returning to the natural "way/God" and replacing the civil Way/God. This is actually the original concept before the Hebrews, known to be Adam or Adamites. The entire concept of Chrisitanity is based on returning to be as Adam. The Adamites were not under civilized authority. But- there is a difference between Adam #1 and #2, JC.
The only possible thing the world needs saving from are those running it.
https://sites.google.com/site/oldseers
Knowledge trumps faith and I'm not a Theist
Lies are nothing more then falsehoods searching for the truth
You've previously used the old testament to provide examples of the hidden message. If you don't use it all, then you're just cherry picking. So my question stands - how does the Zechariah quote fit into your analysis?