what non gun supporters fear

digitalbeachbum's picture

You can Google the name Gregory Chad Wallin-Reed to understand my post.  There are too many articles concerning this case. 

But I think this case, while the extreme, is what I fear more than gun carrying drug pushing douches.

I know where those assholes are and I don't go in their neighborhood. They don't come in mine. 

It is these paranoid, gun holding, white, American Patriots who lie and cheat after shooting at people who,  while doing a stupid stunt, didn't deserve to be chased by the nut sack who I hope will serve the next 50 years behind bars.

My fear is that people like this will shoot me or my family just because their opinions differ from my own. 

 

 

Free will is an illusion. People always choose the perceived path of greatest pleasure.

-Scott Adams

Jeffrick's picture

I just saw that story on NBC's dateline and they scare me also.

digitalbeachbum wrote:

You can Google the name Gregory Chad Wallin-Reed to understand my post.  There are too many articles concerning this case. 

But I think this case, while the extreme, is what I fear more than gun carrying drug pushing douches.

I know where those assholes are and I don't go in their neighborhood. They don't come in mine. 

It is these paranoid, gun holding, white, American Patriots who lie and cheat after shooting at people who,  while doing a stupid stunt, didn't deserve to be chased by the nut sack who I hope will serve the next 50 years behind bars.

My fear is that people like this will shoot me or my family just because their opinions differ from my own. 

 

 

"Very funny Scotty; now beam down our clothes."

VEGETARIAN: Ancient Hindu word for "lousy hunter"

If man was formed from dirt, why is there still dirt?

Jeffrick's picture

I just saw that story on NBC's dateline and they scare me also.

digitalbeachbum wrote:

You can Google the name Gregory Chad Wallin-Reed to understand my post.  There are too many articles concerning this case. 

But I think this case, while the extreme, is what I fear more than gun carrying drug pushing douches.

I know where those assholes are and I don't go in their neighborhood. They don't come in mine. 

It is these paranoid, gun holding, white, American Patriots who lie and cheat after shooting at people who,  while doing a stupid stunt, didn't deserve to be chased by the nut sack who I hope will serve the next 50 years behind bars.

My fear is that people like this will shoot me or my family just because their opinions differ from my own. 

 

 

"Very funny Scotty; now beam down our clothes."

VEGETARIAN: Ancient Hindu word for "lousy hunter"

If man was formed from dirt, why is there still dirt?

Jeffrick's picture

Brian Sapient I still need feild required for comment box, pleas

digitalbeachbum wrote:

You can Google the name Gregory Chad Wallin-Reed to understand my post.  There are too many articles concerning this case. 

But I think this case, while the extreme, is what I fear more than gun carrying drug pushing douches.

I know where those assholes are and I don't go in their neighborhood. They don't come in mine. 

It is these paranoid, gun holding, white, American Patriots who lie and cheat after shooting at people who,  while doing a stupid stunt, didn't deserve to be chased by the nut sack who I hope will serve the next 50 years behind bars.

My fear is that people like this will shoot me or my family just because their opinions differ from my own. 

 

 

"Very funny Scotty; now beam down our clothes."

VEGETARIAN: Ancient Hindu word for "lousy hunter"

If man was formed from dirt, why is there still dirt?

harleysportster's picture

OFF TOPIC BUT I AM HAVING THE SAME PROBLEM. WHY ?

Jeffrick wrote:
digitalbeachbum wrote:

You can Google the name Gregory Chad Wallin-Reed to understand my post.  There are too many articles concerning this case. 

But I think this case, while the extreme, is what I fear more than gun carrying drug pushing douches.

I know where those assholes are and I don't go in their neighborhood. They don't come in mine. 

It is these paranoid, gun holding, white, American Patriots who lie and cheat after shooting at people who,  while doing a stupid stunt, didn't deserve to be chased by the nut sack who I hope will serve the next 50 years behind bars.

My fear is that people like this will shoot me or my family just because their opinions differ from my own. 

 

 


“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno

harleysportster's picture

OFF TOPIC BUT I AM HAVING THE SAME PROBLEM. WHY ?

Jeffrick wrote:
digitalbeachbum wrote:

You can Google the name Gregory Chad Wallin-Reed to understand my post.  There are too many articles concerning this case. 

But I think this case, while the extreme, is what I fear more than gun carrying drug pushing douches.

I know where those assholes are and I don't go in their neighborhood. They don't come in mine. 

It is these paranoid, gun holding, white, American Patriots who lie and cheat after shooting at people who,  while doing a stupid stunt, didn't deserve to be chased by the nut sack who I hope will serve the next 50 years behind bars.

My fear is that people like this will shoot me or my family just because their opinions differ from my own. 

 

 


“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno

ProzacDeathWish's picture

digitalbeachbum wrote:It is

digitalbeachbum wrote:

It is these paranoid, gun holding, white, American Patriots...

 

              You forgot to use "Tea Party", "NRA", "Fox News" "red necks", "it's Presidents Bush's fault"

 

digitalbeachbum wrote:
My fear is that people like this will shoot me or my family just because their opinions differ from my own. 

 

 

 

  Move to Chicago, Illinois, the most Democratically controlled ( left wing ) state in the Union.  I promise you won't be shot at by "paranoid, gun holding, white, American Patriots."  Statistically and demographically speaking I guarantee the people who actually would shoot you and your family won't be "white" and really don't care what your opinions are.

 

 

I'm a right wing atheist because I enjoy being hated by everyone.

"When a man loves cats, I am his friend and comrade, without further introduction." Mark Twain.

Brian37's picture

How is Chicago's murder rate

How is Chicago's murder rate an argument for more guns? I think it is an argument for LESS GUNS. Gun nutters argue rights, when that is not the argument we are making. 300,000,000 guns in circulation on in the stores, homes and streets of America, and the gun nutters think that is not enough guns.

The NRA is nothing but a heat shield for the gun manufacturing industry. They play off the fears of gun advocates to scare them into buying more guns. More gun sales, more profits for the manufactures. This has nothing to do with rights and everything to do with greed and profit.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37

ProzacDeathWish's picture

    Hi Brian !!!

    Hi Brian !!!

ProzacDeathWish's picture

        

I'm a right wing atheist because I enjoy being hated by everyone.

"When a man loves cats, I am his friend and comrade, without further introduction." Mark Twain.

ProzacDeathWish's picture

              

 

                                

                        15 year old son of Deputy Constable uses accurate fire from AR 15 to thwart home invasion attempt.

 

                                            www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-q2zHIovOE

 

 

I'm a right wing atheist because I enjoy being hated by everyone.

"When a man loves cats, I am his friend and comrade, without further introduction." Mark Twain.

Beyond Saving's picture

Brian37 wrote:How is

Brian37 wrote:

How is Chicago's murder rate an argument for more guns? I think it is an argument for LESS GUNS. Gun nutters argue rights, when that is not the argument we are making. 300,000,000 guns in circulation on in the stores, homes and streets of America, and the gun nutters think that is not enough guns.

The point is that Chicago has the fewest number of legal guns per capita than any other city in the country. They have passed every gun regulation and restriction that national anti-gun types come up with in their wet dreams. Yet despite being a city that is so hostile to gun owners that few law abiding gun owners will even consider driving through the city with a hunting shotgun in the trunk (which was actually illegal until just a few years ago) and no gun nut would consider living in the city- they have a murder rate that rivals war zones. This data would cause a rational person to conclude that gun regulations are not very effective and further, one might ask the question when these regulations fail so spectacularly in Chicago, LA, or DC- why would you expect them to work any better at a national level?

Besides, the argument isn't for more guns, it is for allowing law abiding citizens to purchase guns if they want to and to carry them when they want to. I definitely do not support you buying a gun.

I just usually go with my own taste. If I like something, and it happens to be against the law, well, then I might have a problem.- Hunter S. Thompson

Beyond Saving's picture

digitalbeachbum wrote:You

digitalbeachbum wrote:

You can Google the name Gregory Chad Wallin-Reed to understand my post.  There are too many articles concerning this case. 

But I think this case, while the extreme, is what I fear more than gun carrying drug pushing douches.

I know where those assholes are and I don't go in their neighborhood. They don't come in mine. 

It is these paranoid, gun holding, white, American Patriots who lie and cheat after shooting at people who,  while doing a stupid stunt, didn't deserve to be chased by the nut sack who I hope will serve the next 50 years behind bars.

My fear is that people like this will shoot me or my family just because their opinions differ from my own. 

He was convicted of murder as he should have been as this is a pretty clear case. Even if he was shot at as he claimed, you can't chase someone down in your truck and shoot them when they are clearly running away. If he had shot them while they were still on his property and in the process of stealing his shit, then it is less clear. 

The gun he used was already banned and illegal in the state- obviously banning it didn't help. Are you and your family in danger from a nut of this type? Well if you go onto his property and steal his solar lights you might be. My advice is to protect your family and don't bring them along when you go out stealing. Stealing significantly increases your risks of being shot.

I just usually go with my own taste. If I like something, and it happens to be against the law, well, then I might have a problem.- Hunter S. Thompson

Brian37's picture

ProzacDeathWish

ProzacDeathWish wrote:

 

                                

                        15 year old son of Deputy Constable uses accurate fire from AR 15 to thwart home invasion attempt.

 

                                            www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-q2zHIovOE

 

 

That is the not the majority. A gun introduced into most non law enforcement situations, you are 25 times more likely to injure or kill someone you know, or yourself. Oh and what about the cops in NY who hit 9 bystanders last year?

6,000 since Newton, not including kids.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/sep/10/guns-kids-casualties-america

300,000,000 guns. Only an idiot thinks that is not enough.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37

ProzacDeathWish's picture

Brian37 wrote:300,000,000

Brian37 wrote:

300,000,000 guns. Only an idiot thinks that is not enough.

                                    

                                         You speak blasphemy. There are never enough guns Brian.  Guns are my god and my god says "Be fruitful and multiply"

 

 

                                                                Here's a brief sermon...     www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUhU-ypDyus

 

 

 

I'm a right wing atheist because I enjoy being hated by everyone.

"When a man loves cats, I am his friend and comrade, without further introduction." Mark Twain.

Beyond Saving's picture

Brian37 wrote:That is the

Brian37 wrote:

That is the not the majority. A gun introduced into most non law enforcement situations, you are 25 times more likely to injure or kill someone you know, or yourself. Oh and what about the cops in NY who hit 9 bystanders last year?

Perhaps if the NYC police officers had private weapons they could take to a private range and practice more often their accuracy would have been better. Instead, they are limited to the hundred rounds or so a year they are allotted by the government. It is always a good idea to distrust government goons with guns though, at least until said goon has proven they are a good guy and a gun nut. 

 

And a disproportionate number of them happen in areas with extremely strict gun laws. I love how you focus on the hysterical numbers, but never look to see what causes them. Nor have you proposed any solution whatsoever. Remember last time we had a thread on the issue and I asked what policy you would support that would solve the problem? You never had an answer, so let us try again:

What law do you propose that would have prevented this yahoo Gregory Chad Wallin-Reed, from chasing down these thieves and shooting one of them?

 

Brian37 wrote:

300,000,000 guns. Only an idiot thinks that is not enough.

Only an idiot thinks that criminals are going to obey gun laws. Hell, 300,000,000 is less than one per person. That makes the Rationalresponders.com community above average in regards to gun ownership.

I just usually go with my own taste. If I like something, and it happens to be against the law, well, then I might have a problem.- Hunter S. Thompson

Brian37's picture

Criminals don't obey laws?

Criminals don't obey laws? I'm Wolf Blitzer in the Situation Room, our top story tonight, NO SHIT!

Stop dodging the issue. Do you really think that 300,000,000 guns is not enough guns? When you make guns like Skittles and hand them out like candy you are surprised that criminals get a hold of them? Your selfish narcissism is the problem and why crime, even without guns, remains a problem. If economic issues were addressed to the point where people could make ends meet, that stability would reduce crime, and that reduction of crime would lead to less people feeling the need to own guns.

GUNS GUNS WE NEED MORE GUNS, you sound like a theist GOD GOD WE NEED MORE GOD.

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37

ProzacDeathWish's picture

Brian37 wrote:GUNS GUNS WE

Brian37 wrote:

GUNS GUNS WE NEED MORE GUNS, you sound like a theist GOD GOD WE NEED MORE GOD.

 

                           

                                                                                                      We need more guns...

 

 

 

 

I'm a right wing atheist because I enjoy being hated by everyone.

"When a man loves cats, I am his friend and comrade, without further introduction." Mark Twain.

Beyond Saving's picture

Brian37 wrote:Criminals

Brian37 wrote:

Criminals don't obey laws? I'm Wolf Blitzer in the Situation Room, our top story tonight, NO SHIT!

Then why do you think that more laws will stop them?

 

Brian37 wrote:

Stop dodging the issue.

You are the one dodging. I will ask again: What law do you propose would have prevented this particular shooting?

It wasn't 300,000,000 guns involved. It was one.

 

Brian37 wrote:

Do you really think that 300,000,000 guns is not enough guns? When you make guns like Skittles and hand them out like candy you are surprised that criminals get a hold of them?

I agree, we have too many Skittles. There are billions (trillions?) of the fucking things. Diabetes kills more people than guns, we should ban all those Skittles. We need Skittle control and we need it NOW!

Do you believe that gun regulations will prevent criminals from getting them? The evidence presented in places like Chicago suggest that they do not.

 

Brian37 wrote:

Your selfish narcissism is the problem and why crime, even without guns, remains a problem.

Only if you count drug laws, gambling laws and the occasional traffic law. Other than that, my selfish narcissism does nothing to cause crimes.

 

Brian37 wrote:

If economic issues were addressed to the point where people could make ends meet, that stability would reduce crime, and that reduction of crime would lead to less people feeling the need to own guns.

Okay. So how do gun regulations fix the economic issues?

 

Brian37 wrote:

GUNS GUNS WE NEED MORE GUNS, you sound like a theist GOD GOD WE NEED MORE GOD.

Me and Prozac need more guns. You definitely do not.

 

I just usually go with my own taste. If I like something, and it happens to be against the law, well, then I might have a problem.- Hunter S. Thompson

Beyond Saving's picture

ProzacDeathWish wrote:Here's

ProzacDeathWish wrote:

Here's a brief sermon...     www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUhU-ypDyus

 

Hmm, I don't have one of those. Guess America needs 300,000,001 guns because they look like they are having too much fun to sell that one.

 

I just usually go with my own taste. If I like something, and it happens to be against the law, well, then I might have a problem.- Hunter S. Thompson

ProzacDeathWish's picture

Beyond Saving wrote: Hmm, I

Beyond Saving wrote:

 

Hmm, I don't have one of those. Guess America needs 300,000,001 guns because they look like they are having too much fun to sell that one.

 

                                Funny, after full-auto burst a friend off camera says "you hit it once" ...then laughs.

 

 

I'm a right wing atheist because I enjoy being hated by everyone.

"When a man loves cats, I am his friend and comrade, without further introduction." Mark Twain.

Beyond Saving's picture

ProzacDeathWish wrote:Beyond

ProzacDeathWish wrote:

Beyond Saving wrote:

 

Hmm, I don't have one of those. Guess America needs 300,000,001 guns because they look like they are having too much fun to sell that one.

 

                                Funny, after full-auto burst a friend off camera says "you hit it once" ...then laughs.

 

 

And that is how you make a gun nut as inaccurate as a NYC police officer shooting 9mms. That thing looks like it has a beastly kick.

I just usually go with my own taste. If I like something, and it happens to be against the law, well, then I might have a problem.- Hunter S. Thompson

Brian37's picture

You like guns and you cannot

You like guns and you cannot lie, only morons can deny, baby got nipple.

Only a moron thinks 300,000,000 guns is not enough. Guns are not candy and should not be made like candy and sold like candy.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37

Beyond Saving's picture

Brian37 wrote:You like guns

Brian37 wrote:

You like guns and you cannot lie, only morons can deny, baby got nipple.

Only a moron thinks 300,000,000 guns is not enough. Guns are not candy and should not be made like candy and sold like candy.

So are you now a supporter of banning all guns?

I just usually go with my own taste. If I like something, and it happens to be against the law, well, then I might have a problem.- Hunter S. Thompson

Brian37's picture

Beyond Saving wrote:Brian37

Beyond Saving wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

You like guns and you cannot lie, only morons can deny, baby got nipple.

Only a moron thinks 300,000,000 guns is not enough. Guns are not candy and should not be made like candy and sold like candy.

So are you now a supporter of banning all guns?

How do you jump from too many guns to banning all guns? Your projectionism and gap filling is on par with theists thinking.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37

Brian37's picture

I'll shut up when this

I'll shut up when this country can reduce it's gun death to Japan's level.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37

digitalbeachbum's picture

ProzacDeathWish wrote: 

ProzacDeathWish wrote:

  Move to Chicago, Illinois,

 

I hate Chicago. I hate the cold.

I'd rather move back to the South Pacific where I was born and get away from both the liberals and the conservatives.

Free will is an illusion. People always choose the perceived path of greatest pleasure.

-Scott Adams

digitalbeachbum's picture

ProzacDeathWish wrote:   

ProzacDeathWish wrote:

    Hi Brian !!!

I was scrolling down the replies and saw this post and nearly fell out of my chair laughing.

TBS funny.

Free will is an illusion. People always choose the perceived path of greatest pleasure.

-Scott Adams

digitalbeachbum's picture

Beyond Saving wrote:The

Beyond Saving wrote:
The point is that Chicago has the fewest number of legal guns per capita than any other city in the country. They have passed every gun regulation and restriction that national anti-gun types come up with in their wet dreams. Yet despite being a city that is so hostile to gun owners that few law abiding gun owners will even consider

I'm not sure if this logic works. I was born in a country with less than 1 murder per year and they have over 160,000 people. It is legal to own guns but possessing them is limited to your home or car, not on your person.

I know this is extreme but I see similar results in countries with similar laws. I see, for example, Japan where gun owner ship is almost completely extinct with the exception of a few rifles. They have a near "zero" percent murder rate and no deaths by guns.

There must be some connection between gun ownership and crime rates. America can't be the only country to be used in this conversation. Is there other variables being left out of the equation?

 

Free will is an illusion. People always choose the perceived path of greatest pleasure.

-Scott Adams

Brian37's picture

What do you know, another

What do you know, another school shooting 2 dead 4 injured. This time Nevada. Google it it is all over the media. GUNS GUNS WE NEED MORE GUNS.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37

Vastet's picture

"The point is that Chicago

"The point is that Chicago has the fewest number of legal guns per capita than any other city in the country. They have passed every gun regulation and restriction that national anti-gun types come up with in their wet dreams. Yet despite being a city that is so hostile to gun owners that few law abiding gun owners will even consider driving through the city with a hunting shotgun in the trunk (which was actually illegal until just a few years ago) and no gun nut would consider living in the city- they have a murder rate that rivals war zones. "

The problem with the argument you make is that Chicago is a city within a nation that has few restrictions. It's easy for someone in Chicago to procure a gun. Such a person need only cross state lines, which do not have enforced borders. Or perhaps only leave the city, travelling to another. Because it is so easy, there must be plenty of people who go and do so, selling their wares like a back room Ammunation in GTA. So plenty of gun nuts can easily be gun nuts.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.

Kapkao's picture

digitalbeachbum wrote:Beyond

digitalbeachbum wrote:

Beyond Saving wrote:
The point is that Chicago has the fewest number of legal guns per capita than any other city in the country. They have passed every gun regulation and restriction that national anti-gun types come up with in their wet dreams. Yet despite being a city that is so hostile to gun owners that few law abiding gun owners will even consider

I'm not sure if this logic works. I was born in a country with less than 1 murder per year and they have over 160,000 people. It is legal to own guns but possessing them is limited to your home or car, not on your person.

I know this is extreme but I see similar results in countries with similar laws. I see, for example, Japan where gun owner ship is almost completely extinct with the exception of a few rifles. They have a near "zero" percent murder rate and no deaths by guns.

There must be some connection between gun ownership and crime rates. America can't be the only country to be used in this conversation. Is there other variables being left out of the equation?

I was under the impression that the Yakuza have quite a bit of blood on their hands. Not sure of the implements used by them, but in either case, maybe I just misread.

“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)

Beyond Saving's picture

Brian37 wrote:Beyond Saving

Brian37 wrote:

Beyond Saving wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

You like guns and you cannot lie, only morons can deny, baby got nipple.

Only a moron thinks 300,000,000 guns is not enough. Guns are not candy and should not be made like candy and sold like candy.

So are you now a supporter of banning all guns?

How do you jump from too many guns to banning all guns? Your projectionism and gap filling is on par with theists thinking.

 

 

Well, you keep saying there are too many guns. So exactly which guns do you propose getting rid of?

I just usually go with my own taste. If I like something, and it happens to be against the law, well, then I might have a problem.- Hunter S. Thompson

Beyond Saving's picture

digitalbeachbum wrote:Beyond

digitalbeachbum wrote:

Beyond Saving wrote:
The point is that Chicago has the fewest number of legal guns per capita than any other city in the country. They have passed every gun regulation and restriction that national anti-gun types come up with in their wet dreams. Yet despite being a city that is so hostile to gun owners that few law abiding gun owners will even consider

I'm not sure if this logic works. I was born in a country with less than 1 murder per year and they have over 160,000 people. It is legal to own guns but possessing them is limited to your home or car, not on your person.

I know this is extreme but I see similar results in countries with similar laws. I see, for example, Japan where gun owner ship is almost completely extinct with the exception of a few rifles. They have a near "zero" percent murder rate and no deaths by guns.

There must be some connection between gun ownership and crime rates. America can't be the only country to be used in this conversation. Is there other variables being left out of the equation?

 

My argument is that crime rates don't rely on gun ownership. Countries like Switzerland or Israel enjoy low crime and states like Vermont also have low crime rates rivaling the lowest in Europe.While areas like Chicago have really high crime. The only logical conclusion is that gun ownership is not a primary determinate of crime rate. The vast majority of the US has a crime rate on par with European countries. A handful of cities account for murder rates that put us well above average and the consistent factor is gangs. Gun enthusiasts like me and Prozac are not the demographic causing problems.

I just usually go with my own taste. If I like something, and it happens to be against the law, well, then I might have a problem.- Hunter S. Thompson

Sage_Override's picture

It amuses me that gun

It amuses me that gun debates are still going on.  It won't matter in a few years once 3d printing becomes the standard.  Gun control will be a thing of the past.  Any felon can print out whatever model gun they want with whatever ammo they want.  No boundaries, folks.

"When the majority believes in what is false, the truth becomes a quest." - Me

ProzacDeathWish's picture

Beyond Saving wrote:Gun

Beyond Saving wrote:
Gun enthusiasts like me and Prozac are not the demographic causing problems.

 

  As a side note to gun owning demographics, I know lots of so called "gun nuts" ( some who even own legal full auto ) who don't hunt simply because they don't enjoy killing things.  I'm one of them.  I can assure you that I'm not a good old boy nor do I fit the typical "gun nut" stereotype that so many so-called progressives love to project onto us.  There is as much malicious typecasting against gun owners as their is against atheists and in both cases it's just underhanded, self-serving bull shit.

 

 

I'm a right wing atheist because I enjoy being hated by everyone.

"When a man loves cats, I am his friend and comrade, without further introduction." Mark Twain.

ProzacDeathWish's picture

digitalbeachbum wrote:You

digitalbeachbum wrote:

You can Google the name Gregory Chad Wallin-Reed to understand my post. 

 

  You can also Google the names of Wayne B. Williams, Andrew Cunanan, Jeffrey Dahmer, John Wayne Gacy, Bob Berdella, etc.  They were all homosexual serial killers.

 

digitalbeachbum wrote:
It is these paranoid, gun holding, white, American Patriots who lie and cheat....

 

   Your going with the broad brush approach ?   So should I likewise be afraid of male homosexuals because a relatively small number of them become serial killers ?

 

 

digitalbeachbum wrote:
My fear is that people like this...

 

     I fear people like you, too. Especially when they begin to legislate out of fear.

 

 

I'm a right wing atheist because I enjoy being hated by everyone.

"When a man loves cats, I am his friend and comrade, without further introduction." Mark Twain.

digitalbeachbum's picture

Across the world, having

Across the world, having more restrictions or having less restrictions doesn't seem to be the issue. You have some countries/cities with no guns but high knife killings, then you have countries/cities with max restrictions and you have high gun related murders.

There doesn't seem to be one main variable which decides on crime or less crime.

 

Free will is an illusion. People always choose the perceived path of greatest pleasure.

-Scott Adams

digitalbeachbum's picture

Kapkao wrote:I was under the

Kapkao wrote:
I was under the impression that the Yakuza have quite a bit of blood on their hands. Not sure of the implements used by them, but in either case, maybe I just misread.

Sure,  but killings in those formats are not recorded. I mean if they put a bullet in your head the body I'm sure the body is disposed of and never counted.

The point is that people in Japan don't go around shooting each other 1) because they have no guns and 2) their society has a different view on life.

Just because there are gun laws restricting guns in an area/city doesn't mean crime will go down. As Vas already stated, Chicago is a poor example of how gun control fails because you can get guns over any state line.

I just listened to a report on NPR about police in Camden NJ who are now walking their beat instead of riding in cars. They also dissolved an old contract which was draining the city of money (earmarked for union leaders), and put more cops on the street with higher pay.

So there isn't just one factor to consider when it comes to stopping crime. Certainly not getting rid of guns or giving every one guns is the answer.

 

Free will is an illusion. People always choose the perceived path of greatest pleasure.

-Scott Adams

harleysportster's picture

digitalbeachbum wrote: The

digitalbeachbum wrote:

 

The point is that people in Japan don't go around shooting each other 1) because they have no guns and 2) their society has a different view on life.

This article would definitely seem to hint that their way of life is quite different from ours. Cultural Relativity may play a part in the current crisis over here. But consider something else (I can post the link and article). According to the BBC news report. The United States has the record high for child abuse and child killings done by parents. There are much more deeper social issues at play than simply gun violence. Although the gun headlines may make the news, how often here lately do we here of yet another mother/father murdering their own children ? Anyway, here's an article about a new trend in Japan.  :

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/20/young-people-japan-stopped-having-sex?CMP=twt_gu

Why have young people in Japan stopped having sex?

What happens to a country when its young people stop having sex? Japan is finding out… Abigail Haworth investigates.

 

Japan's under-40s appear to be losing interest in conventional relationships. Millions aren't even dating, and increasing numbers can't be bothered with sex. For their government, "celibacy syndrome" is part of a looming national catastrophe. Japan already has one of the world's lowest birth rates. Its population of 126 million, which has been shrinking for the past decade, is projected to plunge a further one-third by 2060. Aoyama believes the country is experiencing "a flight from human intimacy

“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno

digitalbeachbum's picture

Beyond Saving wrote:My

Beyond Saving wrote:

My argument is that crime rates don't rely on gun ownership. Countries like Switzerland or Israel enjoy low crime and states like Vermont also have low crime rates rivaling the lowest in Europe.While areas like Chicago have really high crime. The only logical conclusion is that gun ownership is not a primary determinate of crime rate. The vast majority of the US has a crime rate on par with European countries. A handful of cities account for murder rates that put us well above average and the consistent factor is gangs. Gun enthusiasts like me and Prozac are not the demographic causing problems.

I see and understand your point.

If Chicago allowed guns, homicides with guns wouldn't/might go/down. So what other variables are being ignored? Crooked cops?  Gun stores dealing out the back door? Going over state lines?

As I mentioned in my other post, Camden NJ is using cops to walk a beat rather than drive in cars. Crime has already dropped 10%+/- in various areas. They also dissolved an old union contract which was wasting money.

There are too many variables which need to be considered when trying to lower crime.

Free will is an illusion. People always choose the perceived path of greatest pleasure.

-Scott Adams

harleysportster's picture

Here is the article

Here is the article that I was talking about. Photo slides and videos are included. It is reported by the BBC that child abuse/ child torture and child killings are higher here in the US than any other country that is currently in the Western World.

While someone would have to be blind to not see that all of the gun violence is a bit of a social problem, I have a feeling that we have a much deeper social problem underneath the surface.

Now of course, I have no answers, either to the gun problem or to this one. I don't pretend to. I am just saying that I do not think that more laws or less laws is going to really help the problem

It does not seem possible to cure societal problems, solely based on legislation:

I don't really see any real solutions in site to be honest. Grim news, but true nonetheless from my perspective.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/
world-us-canada-15288865

 

“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno

digitalbeachbum's picture

harleysportster wrote:Here

harleysportster wrote:

Here is the article that I was talking about. Photo slides and videos are included. It is reported by the BBC that child abuse/ child torture and child killings are higher here in the US than any other country that is currently in the Western World.

While someone would have to be blind to not see that all of the gun violence is a bit of a social problem, I have a feeling that we have a much deeper social problem underneath the surface.

Now of course, I have no answers, either to the gun problem or to this one. I don't pretend to. I am just saying that I do not think that more laws or less laws is going to really help the problem

It does not seem possible to cure societal problems, solely based on legislation:

I don't really see any real solutions in site to be honest. Grim news, but true nonetheless from my perspective.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/
world-us-canada-15288865

 

I can't believe that child abuse in America is higher than places in S.E. Asia (Thailand or Philippines)

Free will is an illusion. People always choose the perceived path of greatest pleasure.

-Scott Adams

harleysportster's picture

digitalbeachbum wrote:I

digitalbeachbum wrote:

I can't believe that child abuse in America is higher than places in S.E. Asia (Thailand or Philippines)

I believe that the BBC was referencing the Western World. IOW. Far higher here than Europe and such.

EDIT: Sorry, the link posted wrong :

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-15288865

“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno

iwbiek's picture

Beyond Saving wrote:You are

Beyond Saving wrote:

You are the one dodging. I will ask again: What law do you propose would have prevented this particular shooting?

have you ever seen brian make a constructive proposal.

he's just like an annoying alarm going THERE'SAPROBLEM!THERE'SAPROBLEM!THERE'SAPROBLEM!THERE'SAPROBLEM!THERE'SAPROBLEM!THERE'SAPROBLEM!THERE'SAPROBLEM!THERE'SAPROBLEM!THERE'SAPROBLEM!THERE'SAPROBLEM!THERE'SAPROBLEM!, but i've yet to see him offer a single practicable solution to any of the shit he keeps prating on about, and obviously when someone keeps demanding one, he just ignores those demands.

religion, guns, republicanism...all i've heard is pissing and moaning with no ideas about how to change things.  if you pin him to the wall, you might be lucky enough to get some of his cut-and-paste pablum about life being "a range, not a script" or evolution being the key to understanding x situation or some vague crap about the constitution.  in other words, hot air.

"I asked my father,
I said, 'Father change my name.'
The one I'm using now it's covered up
with fear and filth and cowardice and shame."
--Leonard Cohen

digitalbeachbum's picture

iwbiek wrote:Beyond Saving

iwbiek wrote:

Beyond Saving wrote:

You are the one dodging. I will ask again: What law do you propose would have prevented this particular shooting?

have you ever seen brian make a constructive proposal.

but i've yet to see him offer a single practicable solution to any of the shit he keeps prating on about, and obviously when someone keeps demanding one, he just ignores those demands.

religion, guns, republicanism...all i've heard is pissing and moaning with no ideas about how to change things.  if you pin him to the wall, you might be lucky enough to get some of his cut-and-paste pablum about life being "a range, not a script" or evolution being the key to understanding x situation or some vague crap about the constitution.  in other words, hot air.

I'd like to see a better mental health system for the sick. As i have traveled, specifically DC, Boston, Ny/Ny, etc, I have found that the major cities of this country have a serious issue with mentally ill/homeless people. I know that they aren't the ones buying guns and then shooting others, but I think it is a start.

As we build a new system for the mentally ill, then we can branch out and find people who are more likely to be sociopaths, psychopaths and other mental issues which might be cured with treatment/or at least be diminished by treatment.

 

Free will is an illusion. People always choose the perceived path of greatest pleasure.

-Scott Adams

Beyond Saving's picture

digitalbeachbum wrote:Beyond

digitalbeachbum wrote:

Beyond Saving wrote:

My argument is that crime rates don't rely on gun ownership. Countries like Switzerland or Israel enjoy low crime and states like Vermont also have low crime rates rivaling the lowest in Europe.While areas like Chicago have really high crime. The only logical conclusion is that gun ownership is not a primary determinate of crime rate. The vast majority of the US has a crime rate on par with European countries. A handful of cities account for murder rates that put us well above average and the consistent factor is gangs. Gun enthusiasts like me and Prozac are not the demographic causing problems.

I see and understand your point.

If Chicago allowed guns, homicides with guns wouldn't/might go/down. So what other variables are being ignored? Crooked cops?  Gun stores dealing out the back door? Going over state lines?

As I mentioned in my other post, Camden NJ is using cops to walk a beat rather than drive in cars. Crime has already dropped 10%+/- in various areas. They also dissolved an old union contract which was wasting money.

There are too many variables which need to be considered when trying to lower crime.

I think in Chicago's case the largest factor is economic deterioration. When large numbers of young males are not working they turn to crime out of desperation or boredom. Young males tend to be aggressive and restless which are great traits when channeled into something good and dangerous when not. 

Certainly culture plays a role too and police corruption, real or imagined. Many people in Chicago would never call the cops, especially in poor black neighborhoods because they don't want to snitch and/or they don't trust the police will protect them.

As far as buying guns in other states, I don't think that matters. The vast majority of guns used for crime are not legally purchased in the first place, and they are rarely new. Most guns used in crime are from private party sales and are typically old guns. So stopping new gun sales does little to nothing. If you could eliminate all guns, I would concede that gun crime would fall and maybe the successful murder rate.

But we are not Japan- a country where most private individuals never had access to guns since the 17th century, an island with easily controlled borders and a criminal justice system which doesn't recognize civil rights (there is no jury, a judge decides guilt and the conviction rate is 99%).

We are a country with 300 million plus guns, and no law is going to make them disappear. We have porous borders, and the crazy idea that citizens should have rights. Our justice system was built on the belief that it is better to let some guilty people off the hook to ensure the innocent get a fair trial. We have to work within the reality that exists, not in the reality we dream up.

I have said before, I think the quickest way to reduce crime in our country is to legalize drugs. Much of our violence comes from the drug trade. When you treat drug addicts like criminals, it is not surprising that they become criminals.

I just usually go with my own taste. If I like something, and it happens to be against the law, well, then I might have a problem.- Hunter S. Thompson

Beyond Saving's picture

digitalbeachbum wrote:I'd

digitalbeachbum wrote:

I'd like to see a better mental health system for the sick. As i have traveled, specifically DC, Boston, Ny/Ny, etc, I have found that the major cities of this country have a serious issue with mentally ill/homeless people. I know that they aren't the ones buying guns and then shooting others, but I think it is a start.

As we build a new system for the mentally ill, then we can branch out and find people who are more likely to be sociopaths, psychopaths and other mental issues which might be cured with treatment/or at least be diminished by treatment.

 

I agree 100%, all the shit we give away and we do virtually nothing to help those who are really incapable of caring for themselves.

I just usually go with my own taste. If I like something, and it happens to be against the law, well, then I might have a problem.- Hunter S. Thompson

ProzacDeathWish's picture

  Question for you digital,

  So digital, have you completed your transition to buddhism yet ?

digitalbeachbum's picture

Beyond Saving wrote:Young

Beyond Saving wrote:

Young males tend to be aggressive and restless which are great traits when channeled into something good and dangerous when not. 

But we are not Japan- a country where most private individuals never had access to guns since the 17th century, an island with easily controlled borders and a criminal justice system which doesn't recognize civil rights (there is no jury, a judge decides guilt and the conviction rate is 99%).

I have said before, I think the quickest way to reduce crime in our country is to legalize drugs. Much of our violence comes from the drug trade. When you treat drug addicts like criminals, it is not surprising that they become criminals.

I would agree with the young male issue and it might explain why there is a relation between unemployed young black males and the high rate of young black male shootings.

As I mentioned, my homeland has a murder rate of 1 (less than) per year. I think it is like .6, which is between Japan and Switzerland for comparison. It is an island and has (4) guns per man, woman and child (that is 160,000 people with almost 500,000 registered guns on the island). Yet, murders are very low, but other crimes are higher (such as rape and theft).

I am 100% for legalizing drugs and also prostitution (just threw that in there). New polls on CNN and Gallup show for the first time in 50 years Americans want weed to be legal. I see no problem in this and I believe you should tax the fuck out of it. I also think coke, opium, heroin and exctasy all need to be legal (to name a few). All of which should be taxed and controlled. Once you get legal store fronts or services offering it then the "black market" withers and dies because they won't be able to compete with the open market. Get rid of the black market you end all the bullshit in Mexico, Columbia and El Salvador where murder rates are in the 46.5 per 100,000 people.

 

 

Free will is an illusion. People always choose the perceived path of greatest pleasure.

-Scott Adams

digitalbeachbum's picture

ProzacDeathWish wrote:  So

ProzacDeathWish wrote:

  So digital, have you completed your transition to buddhism yet ?

How would you define transition but more importantly, how would you define buddhism?

 

Free will is an illusion. People always choose the perceived path of greatest pleasure.

-Scott Adams