Types of Theism

Graffito
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Types of Theism

Many posts in this website's forums are about how irrational theist beliefs are to certain atheist or agnostic individuals. To illustrate this point they frequently attack the bible or draw attention to dark spots in the history of Christianity.

I have no problem with this, BUT It seems that many times that they forget that theism extends beyond Christianity, Islam, or any other organized religion. I myself believe in a God, but I define him in my own way, and do not consider myself a Christian because like many of you there are things about it that do not add up in my eyes. I have several friends who are among the most rational human beings I have ever met who believe in Deism (the belief that the universe is like a giant clock and that God was a force or being who simply wound it up, does not interfere in our lives, and simply watches it tick).

I would just like to remind people that theism is not by any means one belief structure, and to keep that in mind here and elsewhere any time they refer to theist as a single homogeneous group.

 


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The great majority of us are

The great majority of us are well aware of this.  And though we don't strongly oppose a deistic view of the world, for example, we still feel that it is still irrational believe in something for which there is no evidence.  For simplicity, it is easier to use the term theist since it is the most encapsulating and I believe sufficiently allowable considering the great minority of deists.  You'll notice that we even have a special tag for agnostic deists due to the distinctive difference in their views and how that plays into the majority of discussions here.


magilum
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Welcome to the forum.

Welcome to the forum.

Graffito wrote:

Many posts in this website's forums are about how irrational theist beliefs are to certain atheist or agnostic individuals. To illustrate this point they frequently attack the bible or draw attention to dark spots in the history of Christianity.

I have no problem with this, BUT It seems that many times that they forget that theism extends beyond Christianity, Islam, or any other organized religion. I myself believe in a God, but I define him in my own way, and do not consider myself a Christian because like many of you there are things about it that do not add up in my eyes.

Would your god then be what remains after a rejection of one, or a series, of organized religions? I tend to assume this is how the vaguer category of "theism" comes about, rather than through an individual thought process conjuring the idea from nothing. Such a process would have to take place in a vacuum.

Graffito wrote:
I have several friends who are among the most rational human beings I have ever met who believe in Deism (the belief that the universe is like a giant clock and that God was a force or being who simply wound it up, does not interfere in our lives, and simply watches it tick).

I think Deism retains much of the improbability of theism, simply removing the phenomenological question of how we're meant to see a god at work.

Graffito wrote:

I would just like to remind people that theism is not by any means one belief structure, and to keep that in mind here and elsewhere any time they refer to theist as a single homogeneous group.

Sure. Organized religions aren't as homogenous as they appear. You'll find they're factionalized all the way down to the individual.

 


I AM GOD AS YOU
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Theism is seperation

   Theism is seperation and doubt, XXXXXXX  [ Heck with that ]  ... religion is god crap .... Religion or Science , pick one, I said ONE  , you can't have both.

 

[MOD EDIT: KEWK reminder. No profanity.]

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 [[[ Sorry wasn't paying good attention, AND / but profanity is hard to define for me, anyway XXXXXXX means Heck with that .... 

KILL them ???? I say XXXXXX KINDLY !  Yeah KILL KILL KILL god of abe, kindly please !!!!!!!!!!!!!! Save a Xain <<<<<<


Brian37
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You make the mistake of

You make the mistake of assuming that atheists only attack Christianity. No, most criticize and point out the errors of all God/god/deity/super natural/ superstitious claims.

You misinterpret the fact that the website is based in America and most of the theists atheists encounter are Christians. I don't think you have spent enough time here to KNOW that we DO criticize everything from Islam, to Scientology to pantheism and deism.

To us, superstition is superstition and claims of Ouija boards are the same as claims of Thor or Allah. Do not mistake the fact that we deal mostly with Christian claims, that we ignore other superstitious claims. It merely means we encounter Christians more than others in this setting.

I can only speak for myself on the issue of Thomas Jefferson. As brilliant as he was in helping write our Constitution, even his deism to me, is as absurd a claim as any specific deity claim and for the same reason. Lack of evidence is why atheists reject any claim. Jefferson would welcome questioning, even when it came to something as personal as a deity claim.

"Question with boldness even the existence of God, for if there be one, surely he would pay more homage to reason than to that of blindfolded fear" Thomas Jefferson.

Don't mistake our criticisms for hate of all religious people. We DO have the ability to separate the issue of the person (one issue), and the separate issue of the claims the person makes.

It never occurs to the theist that they may be wrong and that the atheist is trying to help them break the shackles of their mental mistakes.

If a position is worth holding it is worth examining and testing.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


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Graffito wrote: I myself

Graffito wrote:
 I myself believe in a God, but I define him in my own way

Can you see how someone might think that you're being irrational here?

Saint Will: no gyration without funkstification.
fabulae! nil satis firmi video quam ob rem accipere hunc mi expediat metum. - Terence


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I have a Billion dollars...

I have a Billion dollars... I define it in my own way.

On a completely unrelated topic, some people think I'm irrational.....

Imagine the people who believe such things and who are not ashamed to ignore, totally, all the patient findings of thinking minds through all the centuries since the Bible was written. And it is these ignorant people, the most uneducated, the most unimaginative, the most unthinking among us, who would make themselves the guides and leaders of us all; who would force their feeble and childish beliefs on us; who would invade our schools and libraries and homes. I personally resent it bitterly.
Isaac Asimov


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Graffito wrote: I myself

 Graffito wrote: I myself believe in a God, but I define him in my own way

-----------------------------------

  Well half? "Awake" atheist me too, God being ALL and ONE. Nothing is separate. Sky daddy God of abe seems more silly than god Thor. At least many of the greek gods represented tangible things. 

You say HIM, .... don't you mean IT ? WORDS are  XXXXX MESSY,  aye ?! 

Hey wow wait, look you are right ! GOD is a HIM, " I am God"

Gisburne2000

   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QYx3m-piLA    , giggles

 

[MOD EDIT: KEWK forum reminder]

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Sorry , XXXXX = are messy

 


LosingStreak06
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1. Get yourself to the

1. Get yourself to the Introductions board and introduce yourself properly. That's an order.

Not really.

But for real. Do it.

2. The fine folks here are well aware that theism extends beyond the realms of the Abrahamic and Dharmic theology, thanks to the ever pestering presence of several outside-the-box theists (such as myself, wavefreak, and Captain Pineapple) who simply don't leave. Granted, from time to time they use the term "theist" in such a way that reveals their Abrahamic bias, but that's certainly forgivable given that Christianity is the most popular religion in the world, and is especially prominent in Western culture, which produces the vast majority of the users of this website.

3. They don't really care. Crazy is crazy to them.

4. If you're looking for criticisms of theism in general, you'd want to check out the "rational content" section. I would recommend reading some of the things by todangst. I'd recommend you start with this, this, and this. You can check out stuff from the other authors as well. Keep in mind that a good deal of it is addressed at Christianity in particular, but for good reason; Christianity presents the largest target.

5. Stay classy.


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Great post LosingStreak.I

Great post LosingStreak.

I would like to add one thing...

Not only is there a focus on Christianity due to it being the frequent source of theists, but also it is the source of most Atheists here.  I am pretty sure that the majority of the active Atheists on here were former Christians of some type so they are far more familiar with the teachings and influence of Christianity.

I know I have a particular bias in my blog posts regarding Christianity for this reason.  I am also very open and accepting of that because my target audience is also Christians for the most part.


I AM GOD AS YOU
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  Yeah stop the Xain

  Yeah stop the Xain theists god, .... that is rediculos,

"god of abe" is a bad bad bad idea , so un-healthy   

didn't ancient jesus say "I am god" ,

what's that about ?

I like my Jesus ! He was so atheist .... !!!!

so they killed him .....  


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http://religions.pewforum.org

http://religions.pewforum.org/

 

Pew report. Take a look at the number of Protestant cults alone!

 

(BTW, atheists almost outnumber Jews!  woohoo! We have arrived!  Almost 2%, BABY!!!!!!!)

Imagine the people who believe such things and who are not ashamed to ignore, totally, all the patient findings of thinking minds through all the centuries since the Bible was written. And it is these ignorant people, the most uneducated, the most unimaginative, the most unthinking among us, who would make themselves the guides and leaders of us all; who would force their feeble and childish beliefs on us; who would invade our schools and libraries and homes. I personally resent it bitterly.
Isaac Asimov


ART (not verified)
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science and God

Hey, I just wanted to comment on that fact that someone said you had to choose between science and religion. I just found your site on accident while doing a worldview paper on my view as a theist. Please do not get upset with me, but if you really check your facts, there is fast coming proof for a God or creator in science. I encourage you to read the books: Case for a Creator by Lee Strobel, Case for Christ, and Case for Faith. Also both by Lee Strobel. He is an ex-atheist who went to scientists trying to disprove christianity, and ended up finding proof for it. It is a very interesting set of books.


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ART wrote:Hey, I just wanted

ART wrote:

Hey, I just wanted to comment on that fact that someone said you had to choose between science and religion. I just found your site on accident while doing a worldview paper on my view as a theist. Please do not get upset with me, but if you really check your facts, there is fast coming proof for a God or creator in science. I encourage you to read the books: Case for a Creator by Lee Strobel, Case for Christ, and Case for Faith. Also both by Lee Strobel. He is an ex-atheist who went to scientists trying to disprove christianity, and ended up finding proof for it. It is a very interesting set of books.

Strobbel is a hack. It's the worst stuff I've seen since McDowell. It isn't logical except to people who want to believe it is.

BTW, he never explains to what degree he was an atheist, and his book is written with a clear bias. It is another religious propaganda piece. He didn't find "proof", he made a lot of money by selling his crappy book to gullible people.

 

The arguments for God have been the same for 100's of years and they all fail.

 

If you would like, present one of the arguments that you think is most powerful from one of the books. Feel free to throw in McDowell and C.S. Lewis too - they're all the same. Any number of people here could walk you through the problems in his reasoning that ultimately puts him in the rest of the heap.

 

Think about it. After 2,000 years, this guy is the one who comes up with proof for God?  If so, what were people believing before?  If so, why did so many other people claim to have proof?

 

Basically, Strobbel was convinced by the same, tired arguments that have always existed and can write a nice story. None of it is original or even profound.

 

Sorry, I don't mean to upset you, but I get frustrated when theists bring up the worst of the bunch, simply because they are an easy read and emotionally satisfying.

 

Read some William Lane Craig. He is about the best thing Xian's have and he still falls short of proving a god, or even making a powerful case.  There are many other more qualified theist thinkers than Lewis, Strobbel and McDowell.

Imagine the people who believe such things and who are not ashamed to ignore, totally, all the patient findings of thinking minds through all the centuries since the Bible was written. And it is these ignorant people, the most uneducated, the most unimaginative, the most unthinking among us, who would make themselves the guides and leaders of us all; who would force their feeble and childish beliefs on us; who would invade our schools and libraries and homes. I personally resent it bitterly.
Isaac Asimov


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ART wrote:Hey, I just wanted

ART wrote:
Hey, I just wanted to comment on that fact that someone said you had to choose between science and religion.

Some people think that, but science is protected by belief systematically, so you can believe whatever you want and your bias shouldn't mess with your data (too much). 

Saint Will: no gyration without funkstification.
fabulae! nil satis firmi video quam ob rem accipere hunc mi expediat metum. - Terence