Karl Rove is an atheist? Huh? Whaaaaaaat? {Edited title}

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Karl Rove is an atheist? Huh? Whaaaaaaat? {Edited title}

This really does not make sense, but I usually trust Hitchens information.

 

 

Is Karl Rove an Atheist?

Could it be that one of the most powerful men in America's most overtly religious political administration is actually an atheist? According to Christopher Hitchens, Turdblossom is a non-believer.

In a recent interview with New York Magazine, Hitchens was asked whether anyone in the Bush administration has reported atheism. He replied,

Well, I don’t talk that much to them—maybe people think I do. I know something which is known to few but is not a secret. Karl Rove is not a believer, and he doesn’t shout it from the rooftops, but when asked, he answers quite honestly. I think the way he puts it is, “I’m not fortunate enough to be a person of faith.”
Interesting. According to Hitchens, Bush is aware of Rove's lack of belief, however, he thinks this is unlikely to be an issue since Bush's own faith may be something less than sincere. Could it be that the pair rode to power simply because they were able to skillfully manipulate legions of uneducated Christians with gay marriage and abortion?


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New RRS mission: break in to

New RRS mission: break in to Karl Rove's house and search it for copies of The God Delusion.


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Tilberian wrote: New RRS

Tilberian wrote:
New RRS mission: break in to Karl Rove's house and search it for copies of The God Delusion.

LMAO 


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Karl Rove wrote: “I’m

Karl Rove wrote:
“I’m not fortunate enough to be a person of faith.”
If Rove actually said that, I wonder why he thinks it would be fortunate?

Quote:
Could it be that the pair rode to power simply because they were able to skillfully manipulate legions of uneducated Christians with gay marriage and abortion?
I've often asked myself that question.

 

People who think there is something they refer to as god don't ask enough questions.


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AiiA wrote: If Rove

AiiA wrote:
If Rove actually said that, I wonder why he thinks it would be fortunate?

If he said that and is an atheist, he's likely bought into the theist claptrap about respecting irrespectable beliefs and other up is down logic.

I frankly wouldn't be surprised if many of the biggest theists were actually atheists.

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This reminds me of

This reminds me of something from the Richard dawkins fourm

 

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If I were truly an immoral Atheist, I would pretend to be a priest; so you wouldn't even know I was an Atheist anyway. Remember that the next time you're due for a confessional.

-Bluezy Bunny

 

Of course, if this is true, this would be the ultimate slap to christians.

This would show how dumb you can be if you vote on someone just becuase you think they are a good christian just like you. As if the whole bush thing isn't enough.

Then the ending to "The advocate" comes to mind. 

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I'm not surprised. There's

I'm not surprised. There's more to the Republicans than just the religious right.


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MrRage wrote: I'm not

MrRage wrote:
I'm not surprised. There's more to the Republicans than just the religious right.

 

Well, search through NPR archives and you'll find a story about him..He's a self-described agnostic.  Also, very interesting here, his step father (who took care of him from a young age and loved him like a son) was gay...That's right.  When he was dieing from a terminal illness Rove actually went to California and stayed with him through the end.  

He said that he's done what he's done to win, the particulars of it are not that interesting to him... 

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really not that suprising if

really not that suprising if you've ever read any of the material on Rove's career. contradicting his personal beliefs with his professional life is not the least unexpected, the man will do and/or say ANYTHING to win. he's human slime, true undiluted scum of the earth. nothing is too underhanded or despicable for Rove, so fighting for a cause that he doesn't even believe in simply to gain power? nah, i'm not suprised. not one bit.

oh, and bush? of course he's not as religous as he claims. but he would have a cross branded on his chest if that's what it took to get the support of evangelical christians, the largest active voting force in america. 

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It's all pretty

It's all pretty disgustipating. I can't seem to wrap my head around the falsity of portraying yourself as a theist when you know it to be silly. I guess some people have no problem deceiving others.


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i know what you mean; i

i know what you mean; i won't even bow my head if a visiting in-law insists on saying grace before dinner. simply cannot do it.

but if any of the history i've read on Rove is even half true, integrity is irrelevant. he'll lie, cheat and steal, from anyone, anywhere, anytime. 

www.derekneibarger.com http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=djneibarger "all postures of submission and surrender should be part of our prehistory." -christopher hitchens


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djneibarger wrote: i know

djneibarger wrote:

i know what you mean; i won't even bow my head if a visiting in-law insists on saying grace before dinner. simply cannot do it.

I don't do that either, I have noticed that you can tell who else is a-religous b/c you end up looking at each other all through the prayer...It's kind of a bonding moment really... 

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This doesn't surprise me

This doesn't surprise me about Rove, also known as "Bush's Brain." According to David Kao, author of "Tempting Faith" and part of the Faith Based Initiative staff, said Rove and other White House staff (I didn't read the book) often referred to their religious base as "crazy," "nuts," and "ridiculous."

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BGH wrote: It's all pretty

BGH wrote:
It's all pretty disgustipating. I can't seem to wrap my head around the falsity of portraying yourself as a theist when you know it to be silly. I guess some people have no problem deceiving others.

Well, when you think about it, Rove has become quite a master at deception and control of the masses.  He clearly knows all of the basic buttons to push to manipulate human behavior:

Security/Safety/Fear

Love

Self esteem

Beliefs/Spirituality

It doesn't surprise me that he sees thu the B.S. of christianity but at the same time I would expect him to truly admire its power and emulate it.

And if "disgustipating" was an intentional Tool reference....you the man !!

"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."
George Orwell


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AmericanIdle wrote: And if

AmericanIdle wrote:

And if "disgustipating" was an intentional Tool reference....you the man !!

It was, and you are the man for getting it! 


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As cynical as I have become

As cynical as I have become regarding polititions, they still never cease to make me stop with jaw dropping awe. Awe of their stupidity, arrogance, deception, manipulation.... etc.


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BGH wrote: This

BGH wrote:

This really does not make sense, but I usually trust Hitchens information.

 

 

Is Karl Rove an Atheist?

Could it be that one of the most powerful men in America's most overtly religious political administration is actually an atheist? According to Christopher Hitchens, Turdblossom is a non-believer.
 

I've already heard this, and have no problem believing Hitchens on the matter (he's an atheist as well).

The white house uses religious people, just like every other government uses religion as a means of weilding power. I'm sure there are more than a few close bushies who revel in laughter over the fundies....

As for Bush himself, I'm fully prepared to believe that he's the typical hypocritical christian, he pays lip service to religion (as Rove did in the "I'm not fortunate enough to be a person of faith&quotEye-wink but acts in a contrary manner to his carefully worded claims about his beliefs....

Bush is a fantastic example of Adler's old observation: "It's easier to fight for what you believe in than it is to live up to it."

 

 

Those who know the good, do the good. - Socrates

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BGH wrote: It's all pretty

BGH wrote:
It's all pretty disgustipating. I can't seem to wrap my head around the falsity of portraying yourself as a theist when you know it to be silly. I guess some people have no problem deceiving others.

That does it!  I am starting an RRS dictionary.  You are too funny!

Well, as BGH knows my first reaction to this was, "Karl Rove is a name I should recognize?  Whaaaaaa???"  And then after a crash-course on who/what/where/when I think this probably is not a unique thing.  People like Rove and Bush are interested in one goal - power.  Integrity does not even come into the equation.  I agree with Todangst, I can see them shaking their heads and chuckling at the extreme religious right folks and then turning around to kiss their asses in order to further their own agendas - i.e. power, money, fame (infamy). 


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NinjaTux

NinjaTux wrote:
djneibarger wrote:

i know what you mean; i won't even bow my head if a visiting in-law insists on saying grace before dinner. simply cannot do it.

I don't do that either, I have noticed that you can tell who else is a-religous b/c you end up looking at each other all through the prayer...It's kind of a bonding moment really...

LOL, Ninja!  My nephew and I have shared some of these bonding moments.  He was mostly raised by his whackjob fundy mother.  When he was about ten years old, he told me his favorite color was red because it reminded him of the blood of Jesus.  I died a little inside.  During the past five years or so, I have been open with him about my lack of belief in a god and I'm pretty sure he has discarded religion based on the eye contact we've made during prayer.  Smiling  

I'd like to talk to him about NOT joining the army (something he's considering), but I don't want to be pushy.  Now is not a good time to put yourself at the mercy of the government. 

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BGH wrote: As cynical as I

BGH wrote:
As cynical as I have become regarding polititions, they still never cease to make me stop with jaw dropping awe. Awe of their stupidity, arrogance, deception, manipulation.... etc.

Hear, hear.  I must very sadly agree with you.  I also find myself often agreeing with a Douglas Adams quote: "Anyone who can get himself elected president of the galaxy should by no means be allowed to serve."  What goes for Mr. Beeblebrox goes doubly for Mr. Bush.

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Iruka Naminori

Iruka Naminori wrote:

 Now is not a good time to put yourself at the mercy of the government. 

There's a good time?


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THat Karl Rove is an atheist

THat Karl Rove is an atheist should not be of a big surprise to anyone, I've even mention the fact that most leaders of the church are in fact, non believers.  Karl Rove is a neocon.  Let me talk about Leo Strauss for a second, Leo Strauss is the Karl Marx of the intellectual wing of neoconservatism.  His philosophies stem from platonic views.  Neocons believe in an esoteric and and exoteric message.  The esoteric message or the true message, should be kept from the masses because it is assumed , according to neocons that we are too stupid and we shoul let the elitists rule wihtout  question.  One way to appease the masses is by using religion as a tool to control.  This is why you see many people of faith (especially  the most outspoken leaders) doing things that are not quite, well, christian.   But there is an agenda here and the neocons will use whatever techniques necessary to keep the people blind and dumb.  That is why most people vote on issues like abortion and gay marriage, because the neocons know that is what people will eventually emotionally, succumb to.  Karl Rove appeals to the xtian right not because he is one, but because he knows he needs their votes.  It's a very good technique..and as we are seeing it works.

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Rove appeals to the

Rove appeals to the christian right's fear of homosexuals and abortion for support in much the same way Hitler appealed to the already existing anti-semitism in Germany, Italy and, in fact, even America (I'm thinking here of influential people like Henry Ford, Father Coughlin and Charles Lindbergh) to mold people into a group which hated in unison. By Carl Rove, homosexuals and abortion doctors are the Jews of the 21st century, and he is using them in exactly the same way. One would expect this of fundy christians. Atheists generally are better than that. Rove, though, is simply evil.


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To clarify, I'm not saying

To clarify, I'm not saying that christians are evil. They are merely wrong in their belief that their god hates homosexuals and abortion doctors. No, Rove is evil because he knows better, but uses the prejudices of gullible people to further his own agenda.


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More info about

More info about Rove.

 

Monday, April 30, 2007

Karl Rove Is An Atheist: More Evidence and Implications

It seems that there is tremendous interest in the possibility that Karl Rove is an atheist. The recent post in which I quoted Christopher Hitchens, author of God Is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything, as saying that Rove "is not a believer" generated more hits than any other post in the history of Atheist Revolution. In this post, I'll consider other evidence that confirms Hitchens' statement and discuss the implications of Rove's atheism.

Hitchens' on Karl Rove and Bush

We start with Christopher Hitchens. What exactly did he say, and what was the context of his statement. During an interview with New York Magazine, Hitchens was asked whether he thought an openly atheistic candidate would ever be elected in the United States. He answered in the affirmative and was then asked whether anyone in the Bush administration has ever disclosed atheism to him. He replied,
Well, I don’t talk that much to them—maybe people think I do. I know something which is known to few but is not a secret. Karl Rove is not a believer, and he doesn’t shout it from the rooftops, but when asked, he answers quite honestly. I think the way he puts it is, “I’m not fortunate enough to be a person of faith.”
Hitchens' response to the next question was almost as interesting. The question was, "What must Bush make of that?" Hitchens replied,
I think it’s false to say that the president acts as if he believes he has God’s instructions. Compared to Jimmy Carter, he’s nowhere. He’s a Methodist, having joined his wife’s church in the end. He also claims that Jesus got him off the demon drink. He doesn’t believe it. His wife said, “If you don’t stop, I’m leaving and I’m taking the kids.” You can say that you got help from Jesus if you want, but that’s just a polite way of putting it in Texas.
So Rove, and to a a lesser degree Bush himself, may not be the believers the American public thinks they are. In Rove's case, it appears that he has been willing to admit his lack of theistic belief to those close to him. In Bush's case, it sounds like the whole born-again thing may be little more than a public relations strategy.

David Kuo's Account of Rove

While Hitchens' statements may be new for the majority of the American people, Rove's atheism may be unsurprising to political insiders. David Kuo, former second-in-command of Bush’s Office on Faith-Based Initiatives, wrote a book detailing how the Bush administration has used Christianity to win votes. In Kuo's Tempting Faith: An Inside Story of Political Seduction, he alleges that Bush created his faith-based office to manipulate evangelical Christians.

An excerpt from the book posted by ThinkProgress in October of 2006 states,

Three days later, a Tuesday, Karl Rove summoned [Don] Willett [a former Bush aide from Texas who initially shepherded the program] to his office to announce that the entire faith-based initiative would be rolled out the following Monday. Willett asked just how — without a director, staff, office, or plan — the president could do that. Rove looked at him, took a deep breath, and said, “I don’t know. Just get me a f—ing faith-based thing. Got it?” Willett was shown the door.

Kuo's allegations were also reported by MSNBC. According to MSNBC, Kuo "says some of the nation’s most prominent evangelical leaders were known in the office of presidential political strategist Karl Rove as 'the nuts.'"
“National Christian leaders received hugs and smiles in person and then were dismissed behind their backs and described as ‘ridiculous,’ ‘out of control,’ and just plain ‘goofy,’” Kuo writes.

Implications of Rove's Atheism

Does it matter that Karl Rove is an atheist? Yes and no. In one sense, it should matter greatly to all Americans because the Bush administration has long attempted to equate itself with righteous born-again Christianity. Bush himself is especially fond of speaking about his god and how he believes he is carrying out the will of his god. To find out that Rove is an atheist and that Bush is perhaps not far behind should therefore be of great interest. As Austin Cline notes,

One of the most prominent and defining characteristics of the Bush administration has been its commitment to the promotion of religion — and not just religion generally, but conservative evangelical Christianity in particular.
In another sense, whether it matters will be shaped by who you are. Atheists who despised Rove before are not suddenly going to embrace him now. We might share a lack of theistic belief, but I'm fairly confident that this is all we share. By itself, a lack of belief in gods unites us no more than a lack of belief in Santa Claus.

On the other hand, I would expect this to matter a great deal to Christians, especially those who voted for Bush. I would think that they might feel betrayed, used, and perhaps even humiliated. Such feelings would be understandable. They elected an administration who makes fun of them behind their backs, plays on their fears, makes promises which are not honored, and essentially exploits their willingness to trust someone who claims to be one of them.

 


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LeftofLarry wrote: Leo

LeftofLarry wrote:
Leo Strauss is the Karl Marx of the intellectual wing of neoconservatism. His philosophies stem from platonic views. Neocons believe in an esoteric and and exoteric message. The esoteric message or the true message, should be kept from the masses because it is assumed , according to neocons that we are too stupid and we shoul let the elitists rule wihtout question. One way to appease the masses is by using religion as a tool to control.

The other thing taught by Strauss was that in order to maintain a cohesive society, we must have a common enemy. It used to be communism. Now it's Muslims, gays, and feminists.

Oh, and secularists! 

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rab wrote:   The other

rab wrote:

 

The other thing taught by Strauss was that in order to maintain a cohesive society, we must have a common enemy. It used to be communism. Now it's Muslims, gays, and feminists.

Oh, and secularists!

Gotta have a bad guy, otherwise you cannot have a good guy. 

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Then we hand that hero a

Then we hand that hero a bible and wrap him in the American flag.


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rab wrote: Then we hand

rab wrote:
Then we hand that hero a bible and wrap him in the American flag.

 Let's not forget how many people are making lots of money, defense contracts...etc..etc.. Military Industrial Complex works quite well.

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todangst wrote: The white

todangst wrote:
The white house uses religious people, just like every other government uses religion as a means of weilding power. I'm sure there are more than a few close bushies who revel in laughter over the fundies....

As for Bush himself, I'm fully prepared to believe that he's the typical hypocritical christian, he pays lip service to religion (as Rove did in the "I'm not fortunate enough to be a person of faith&quotEye-wink but acts in a contrary manner to his carefully worded claims about his beliefs....

Ever see the movie "Elmer Gantry". GW and company are perfect examples of that charater. And the Ted Haggard, Rick Warren, etc. league. Tell people what they want to hear to get their money and support. It does not matter what you believe. Only requires a sick mind that is greedy, power hungry, and, as it seems with GW, a need for personal deification. His "History will show I am right, not the polls." Harry Truman he is not.

When I heard GW say in a TV interview during the 2000 Prez primary "God told me (said?) I would be president and it was my destiny to change the world", I wanted to head to Canada, or China, if he won. After reading stories in 2002/03 on how Billy Graham helped GW get sober, then GW's antics in trying to invade Iraq, I wondered what Graham had taught him. And now, wonder how much influence Rove had. Graham has been the El Primo of scam artist since the day he picked up a bible.

If any one noticed, most did not, especially in Congress, GW pulled every trick in the crooked saleman/preacher handbook to attack Iraq: appeal to emotions, fear, evidence that is not up-to-date and not verfiable. Keep the heat on with "have to do it now, tomorrow will be too late" to not give anyone time to think or question the scam. Straight down the line with no deviation.

Did GW learn how to do that through Graham, or Rove, or both? He did not get it from his daddy.

Considering GW's long drinking/drug history, I have felt he is brain damaged enough that he really believes what he says. But, that he does not like the fundamentalist and is only using them. They know that and did not vote in 2004 and 2006.

This country is gullible as hell. And that ain't good. . .

 

"Facts mean nothing when they are preempted by appearances. Do not underestimate the power of impression over reality."

- Crown Prince Corrino, the Rudiments of Power, "Dune"

 

"What the world needs is an enema." Jack Nicholson, "Batman"