Some Ray Comfort stuff for you to debunk (YOU RESPOND)

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Some Ray Comfort stuff for you to debunk (YOU RESPOND)

YOU RESPOND:

Quote:

From: believersbattlecry@yahoo.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 8:43 AM
Subject: [General Question] Is there a God?

How can you ask people to deny a God that you believe does not exist? In
reality, Atheists do not exist.
If you would take the time to examine the evidence, there can be no doubt
that God exists. Every building has a builder. Everything made has a
maker. The existence of the Creator is axiomatic (self-evident). The Bible
says, "The fool has said in his heart, ‘There is no God’" (Psalm 14:1).
A professing atheist denies the common sense given to him by God.
Right now I am praying that the blood of JESUS CHRIST be poured over your
website and I rebuke this website in the name of the Father, the Son and
the HOLY SPIRIT! Remember, as it says in the Bible, "For it is written,
As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue
shall confess to God." Romans 14:11 One day you will meet this God who
you so ignorantly deny. I pray that you wake up before it is to late.
Where are you going to spend eternity after you die? We all are going to
die. Prove to me that there is no Heaven or no Hell. May God have mercy
on your souls! Take this following test:

http://www.needgod.com/index.shtml

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MattShizzle
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Fucking A. This is so

Fucking A. This is so overloaded on irrationality it boggles the mind.


cannibal213
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took the test, looks like

took the test, looks like i'am going to hell


Ophios
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Quote: The Bible says, "The

Quote:
The Bible says, "The fool has said in his heart, ‘There is no God’" (Psalm 14:1).

 

Luckly I'm not saying there is no god. But I could other wise say "The fool says in his heart, 'There is no loki!', and you would be a fool as you have no choice but to say there is no loki.

 

But wait, are you calling people fools? Yes? Well, I'll see you in hell you hateful bigot! 

AImboden wrote:
I'm not going to PM my agreement just because one tucan has pms.


D-cubed
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Since souls don't exist the

Since souls don't exist the possibility of an afterlife is impossible therefore rendering the entire issue moot doesn't it?  The dualistic nature of the brain/soul has been debunked (otherwise how else would people hallucinate on LSD and shrooms if the 'soul' wasn't physical).  "After death" experiences can be recreated in a lab by depriving the brain of oxygen at high G forces.

 Then there's the issue of the absolute statement that everything needs a builder.  A builder is a thing therefore the builder needs a builder and you have infinite regression.  So it's an illogical argument.  Since one of the laws of thermodynamics states that matter and energy is neither created or destroyed the theist is arguing against the laws of thermodynamics, but they never presented anything why it's wrong other than wishful thinking.

Therefore there's really nothing to respond to unless the theist cares to actually present an argument rather than unsupported assertions. 


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Quote: Right now I am

Quote:

Right now I am praying that the blood of JESUS CHRIST be poured over your website...

Puke! What a disgusting image. I don't think it would make for an attractive looking website, except for all those vampires out there.


BobSpence
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'Evidence'??

'Evidence'?? What evidence????

Then we get "everything needs a maker", but of course except God, so its that old explicit logical contradiction right there.... no point going any further.

Favorite oxymorons: Gospel Truth, Rational Supernaturalist, Business Ethics, Christian Morality

"Theology is now little more than a branch of human ignorance. Indeed, it is ignorance with wings." - Sam Harris

The path to Truth lies via careful study of reality, not the dreams of our fallible minds - me

From the sublime to the ridiculous: Science -> Philosophy -> Theology


MisterDax
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"How can you ask people to

"How can you ask people to deny a God that you believe does not exist?"

When denying gods, the situation is not the same as denying eg. your own parents or friends. Apparently they exist. When people deny god, they are actually denying the consept of god.

" If you would take the time to examine the evidence, there can be no doubt
that God exists. Every building has a builder. Everything made has a
maker. The existence of the Creator is axiomatic (self-evident)."

The existance of a creator being is not axiomatic, because you have not displayed any support for the idea that everything in this universe is made by a maker. It is easy to take human-made objects and argue that they have a maker, but can you apply it to non-human-made objects?

" Right now I am praying that the blood of JESUS CHRIST be poured over your
website and I rebuke this website in the name of the Father, the Son and
the HOLY SPIRIT!"

Sorry, I'm not really into vampirism.

"Where are you going to spend eternity after you die?"

I don't know and neither do you. For the knowledge that I possess, my existance will cease at the moment of my death.

"Prove to me that there is no Heaven or no Hell."

Because neither the existance of Heaven or Hell have not been proven, the burden of proof on them who claim their existance.


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Quote: How can you ask

Quote:
How can you ask people to deny a God that you believe does not exist?

Looks like you just answered your own question.

Quote:
In
reality, Atheists do not exist.

Is this some kind of "I know you are but what am I?" ploy?  Because it's not working.

Quote:
If you would take the time to examine the evidence, there can be no doubt
that God exists.

If there was evidence to examine than this would be true.

Quote:
Every building has a builder. Everything made has a
maker. The existence of the Creator is axiomatic (self-evident).

If everything needs a creator, than who created the creator?  What about the creator's creator?  Or the creator's creator's creator?  As soon as you say something cannot exist unless an intelligent force put it there, than you are opening the question of what intelligent force created the intelligent force that created us. 

Quote:
The Bible
says, "The fool has said in his heart, ‘There is no God’" (Psalm 14:1).

The bible has negative things to say about athiests?!  Well shit, that's a new one to me.

Quote:
Right now I am praying that the blood of JESUS CHRIST be poured over your
website and I rebuke this website in the name of the Father, the Son and
the HOLY SPIRIT!

Eww.  Please keep your bodily fluids away from us.

Quote:
Remember, as it says in the Bible, "For it is written,
As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue
shall confess to God." Romans 14:11

......And the bible says we should believe in god?!  Wow, the plot thickens.

This isn't a Chic Tract.  Quoting the bible isn't going to convert anyone.  Hell, the bible is the cause of much athiesm here.

Quote:
One day you will meet this God who
you so ignorantly deny. I pray that you wake up before it is to late.

Is it ignorant to deny something that has no evidence to support it?  I think it's clear who is sleeping here.

Quote:
Where are you going to spend eternity after you die?

A coffin.

Quote:
We all are going to
die. Prove to me that there is no Heaven or no Hell.

Here's something you need to get used to hearing:  You cannot prove a negative.  The burden of proof lies on the shoulders of theists.

Quote:
May God have mercy
on your souls! Take this following test:

http://www.needgod.com/index.shtml

Hey, this test was a blast.  Funny shit, seriously.  I failed at not needing god.  Was this suppose to scare me or something?

Jesus died for somebody's sins, but not mine


Faithless1981
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There is one born everyday,

There is one born everyday, lol. Everything needs a creator, or maker, ok, then lets take this up to it's logical conclusion. Who made your god? You did say EVERYTHING. And if your god is excluded from this, then not everything needs a creator, and hence, no longer need a god to explain our existance. But of course, somethind did create me, a human female after an encounter with a male human Smiling Why do you take your bible so literally there, where we are fools, but you have ignored passages about stoning your misbehaving children? Or promoting slavery.....or would you rather cherry pick your perfect bible?


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that quiz is hilarious. I

that quiz is hilarious. I decided that I would answer all the questions as a 'christian' should and see what it said...

One of them is 'have you broken the 1st commandment'
(the no other gods one) and I said no..
According to them, if you answered no you were lying because psalm 14(verses 2-3) says so. and therefore were breaking the 9th commandment by lying.
  uhhh okay? 


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Amazing.  My reply would

Amazing.  My reply would be to read the related thread started by another member of this forum, but I won't go that far.

 

Ray Comfort is, in my mind, around the same level of sanity as say, Michael Jackson; not necessarily as physically or mentally harmful, but just as nonsensical.  Search for "proof of god banana" to see what I'm talking about.  What I always find most amazing is the leap to the CHRISTIAN god.  I'm sure the Hindu equivalent of Ray Comfort(though I doubt there is such a thing) would conclude that some incarnation of the Hindu god exists, the Muslim equivalent would say the same of Allah;  By what measure is any one of them correct?  They cannot all be correct, since they do not all agree.


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Hey gents... extracts from

Hey gents... extracts from this test of faith...

Quote:
8. Have you ever broken the first Commandment?
YOUR SCORE ON QUESTION #8:
The First of the Ten Commandments is "You shall have no other gods before me." That means that we should love God with all of our heart, mind, soul and strength. The Bible tells us that no one has kept this commandment (see Psalm 14:2-3) -- if you said you had, you have also broken the 9th Commandment by lying.

Believe me, however experienced I am at debating the Bible, I've not known this until now. Shouldn't this all mighty God know that I didn't know there was no possibility to fulfill the 10th commandment? I am not lying, I just didn't know. That doesn't matter, according to the Psalms, however.

Nevermind. OK now... going forth:

Quote:
1. Have you ever told a lie?
YOUR SCORE ON QUESTION #1:
The Ninth of the Ten Commandments is "You shall not lie." Telling just one lie, according to God's standards, makes you a "liar." In Revelation 21:8, God says, "...all liars, shall have their part in the lake of fire...

And we thus conclude:

- we are obliged to keep all 10 commandments, otherwise we will burn in hell

- it is impossible to keep the first commandment

- if we consider to have kept the first commandment, we have automatically broken the ninth commandment

- the penalty of lying is burning in hell

Therefore: we will all burn in hell.

Furthermore, we are being told what will happen:

Quote:
While it may seem that God's goodness will cause Him to overlook your sins, the opposite is actually true. Perhaps the following illustration will add some clarity: Imagine you're standing before a judge, guilty of multiple crimes. The judge is about to pass sentence when he asks, "Do you have anything to say for yourself?" You stand up, look the judge in the eye and say, "Yes Your Honor, I believe that you're a good man... and because you're good, you will let me go." The judge will probably say something like, "Well, you're right about one thing... I am a good man. And it's because I'm good that I'm going to see that you are punished for your crimes." The very thing you are counting on to save you on the Day of Judgment -- namely God's goodness -- is going to be the very thing that will see to it that justice is done. Because God is so good He will make sure that every murderer, rapist and thief receives justice... but He won't stop there. He will also make sure every liar, blasphemer, and adulterer is punished. While this is something that is extremely tragic and far from God's ultimate desire for any person, the Bible is clear that the place of punishment for those who do not turn from their sins is Hell.

We furthermore have an adequate description of Hell:

Quote:
There are three words translated “Hell” in Scripture:
Gehenna (Greek): The place of punishment (Matthew 5:22,29; 10:28; and James 3:6)
Hades (Greek): The abode of the dead (Matthew 11:23; 16:18; Luke 16:23; Acts 2:27)
Sheol (Hebrew): The grave (Psalm 9:17; 16:10)

There are those who accept that Hell is a place of punishment, but believe that the punishment is to be annihilated—to cease conscious existence. They can’t conceive that the punishment of the wicked will be conscious and eternal. If they are correct, then a man like Adolph Hitler, who was responsible for the deaths of millions, is being “punished” merely with eternal sleep. His fate is simply to return to the non-existent state he was in before he was born, where he doesn’t even know that he is being punished.

However, Scripture paints a different story. The rich man who found himself in Hell (Luke 16:19-31) was conscious. He was able to feel pain, to thirst, and to experience remorse. He wasn’t asleep in the grave; he was in a place of “torment.” If Hell is a place of knowing nothing or a reference to the grave into which we go at death, Jesus’ statements about Hell make no sense. He said that if your hand, foot, or eye causes you to sin, it would be better to remove it than to “go into Hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: where their worm dies not, and the fire is not quenched” (Mark 9:43-48).

The Bible refers to the fate of the unsaved with such fearful words as the following:

“Shame and everlasting contempt” (Daniel 12:2)
“Everlasting punishment” (Matthew 25:46)
“Weeping and gnashing of teeth” (Matthew 24:51)
“Fire unquenchable” (Luke 3:17)
“Indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish” (Romans 2:8,9)
“Everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord” (2 Thessalonians 1:9)
“Eternal fire...the blackness of darkness for ever” (Jude 7,13)
Revelation 14:10,11 tells us the final, eternal destiny of the sinner: “He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone...the smoke of their torment ascended up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day or night."

We do not enjoy speaking in detail about the torments of Hell. It is, however, a real place and God in his love and mercy does not want you to go there.

OK, clear steps until now. We repent our sins, and we might be saved. Slim chance, but might.

Now, here it gets tricky. We are told:

Quote:
Now read your Bible daily, and obey what you read. God will never let you down.

Obet what we read. Note that it doesn't say "interpret, then obey at will", but "obey". Let me paste something that I read:

- "So they are no longer two but one flesh.  What therefore God has joined together, let no man put asunder" - about marriage... no divorce.

- "Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?" - Corinthians, 1, 11:14... well, so much for our Jeezus with long hair...

- "If any man come to me, and not hate his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sister, yet, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple" - Luke 14:26

- "And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven" - Metthew 23:9 - "Forgive me, FATHER, for I have sinned..."

- "...that women should adorn themselves modestly and sensibly in seemly apparel, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or costly attire" - Timothy 2:9 - This should be pretty obvious...

... and the rest of the Deuteronomy (and for those who think the Deuteronomy is no longer active, read Luke 16:17 & Matthew 5:18-19)

Quite a bit hard, isn't it ?

I anticipate a Christian telling me that these are so interpretable, that surely their meaning isn't literal. But...

"Know this first of all, that there is no prophecy of scripture that is a matter of personal interpretation, for no prophecy ever came through human will; but rather human beings moved by the holy Spirit spoke under the influence of God" - Peter 2, 1:20,21.

 

So much for your religiosity test...

Inquisition - "The flames are all long gone, but the pain lingers on..."
http://rigoromortis.blogspot.com/


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Quote: If you would take

Quote:
If you would take the time to examine the evidence, there can be no doubt that God exists. Every building has a builder. Everything made has a maker.

I would therefore have to ask you what made your God - some kind of super-duper God, who is infinitely more complex?  Well, if that God exists, what made it?  So on and so forth?  The premise of your argument is that everything needs a creator, except for your God, which renders your argument invalid.

 

Quote:
A professing atheist denies the common sense given to him by God.

Important question.  How does God give me common sense?  Did he send it by mail?  Did he come down the chimney with it gift wrapped and leave it under the tree?  Did he start a cable-access TV show and beam it into my head?  Do I need an aluminum foil hat to receive this message?  What I'm driving at is that no matter how fervent your belief is, you can't show how your nonexistant God performs ANY action.  You just claim it does.

Quote:
 Right now I am praying that the blood of JESUS CHRIST be poured over your website and I rebuke this website in the name of the Father, the Son and the HOLY SPIRIT!

You might not want that - when they poured blood all over Carrie, she used her telekinetic powers to set her entire school on fire.  Wouldn't want you to get all toasty.

Quote:
One day you will meet this God who you so ignorantly deny. I pray that you wake up before it is to late. Where are you going to spend eternity after you die? We all are going to die.

Yes, we are.  Now show me how my dead carcass, which has no capacity to think, feel, or care, will matter should I meet your nonexistant Sky Daddy.  You can use me for cordwood, baseballs, target practice or porno - it's not like I'll notice - I'M DEAD.  So even if I do die and your God exists, the worst He can do to me is desecrate my corpse.  Giant loss.

Quote:
 Prove to me that there is no Heaven or no Hell.

I'll get right on that as soon as you prove that there isn't an invisible unicorn that created the Universe on your left shoulder.

 

"Like Fingerpainting 101, gimme no credit for having class; one thumb on the pulse of the nation, one thumb in your girlfriend's ass; written on, written off, some calling me a joke, I don't think that I'm a sellout but I do enjoy Coke."

-BHG


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Quote: The Bible says,

Quote:
The Bible says, "The fool has said in his heart, ‘There is no God’" (Psalm 14:1).

The fool says in his heart, "there is no FSM"
This is more reasonable: "When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things." 
-Paul of Tarsus I Corinthians 13.11 (KJV)
Use your reason, don't turn it on its head.

"Every true faith is infallible -- It performs what the believing person hopes to find in it. But it does not offer the least support for the establishing of an objective truth. Here the ways of men divide. If you want to achieve peace of mind and happiness, have faith. If you want to be a disciple of truth, then search." - Nietzsche


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Family_Guy wrote: I would

Family_Guy wrote:
I would therefore have to ask you what made your God - some kind of super-duper God, who is infinitely more complex?

I call this super-duper God, Metagod. Our Ray Comfort fan is clearly an ametatheist.


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Well, loved that quiz.  I

Well, loved that quiz.  I especially loved the bit at the end when I said I wasn't that concerned about hell.

  Perhaps you feel safe because you don't believe in Hell. This can be likened to standing in the middle of a busy highway and shouting, "I don't believe in trucks!" Your belief or disbelief in trucks will not change reality.

Well, certainly if I stood in the middle of a highway and did that, I would be crazy.  My own eyes can see the bloody things.  I can hear them as they woosh past and feel the wind as they pass (or the short sensation of 2 tones or more of metal as they hit me).  I have evidence for the trucks before I even get near the highway, and ample data to confirm that getting near the highway would endanger me.  However, I haven't seen any hell fire, demons, or evidence of hell... so I don't really see how the two are the same.  Maybe this guy can tell me how this analogy works. 

The Regular Expressions of Humanistic Jones: Where one software Engineer will show the world that God is nothing more than an undefined pointer.


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RationalResponseSquad

RationalResponseSquad wrote:
YOU RESPOND: From: believersbattlecry@yahoo.com Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 8:43 AM Subject: [General Question] Is there a God? How can you ask people to deny a God that you believe does not exist?

Very easily.

Quote:

In reality, Atheists do not exist.

No, in reality, atheism exists.

Quote:

If you would take the time to examine the evidence, there can be no doubt that God exists. Every building has a builder.

Fallacy of begging the question.This begs the question that the universe is an artifact.

Those who know the good, do the good. - Socrates

Books on atheism.


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HumanisticJones

HumanisticJones wrote:

Maybe this guy can tell me how this analogy works.

I've heard this analogy a lot when I was a christian, and even then I thought it was the dumbest thing.

I think they use it because they they that we don't want to believe. They think we're guilty of wishful thinking. They think that we want to be free to have lots of sex and drugs, turn kids gay, save the whales, and cause the downfall of society all without having to be judged by God at the end of the world.


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One sometimes wonders why

One sometimes wonders why it's so bloody easy to refute some of these.

Quote:
How can you ask people to deny a God that you believe does not exist?

Because the belief in said god has been responsible at least indirectly, though sometimes directly as well, for more ignorance and senseless violence than any other cause in history.

Quote:
In
reality, Atheists do not exist.

This is a laughable assumption with no basis in reality.

Quote:

If you would take the time to examine the evidence, there can be no doubt
that God exists.

On the contrary. Study of reality shows that a god cannot exist.

Quote:
Every building has a builder. Everything made has a
maker.

True.

Quote:
The existence of the Creator is axiomatic (self-evident).

Ah, but only when you assume everything was created. Which makes you guilty of believing in something you don't know.

Quote:
The Bible
says, "The fool has said in his heart, ‘There is no God’" (Psalm 14:1).

The bible is irrelevant.

Quote:

A professing atheist denies the common sense given to him by God.

No. An atheist allows the common sense that there is no god to give common sense.

Quote:
Right now I am praying that the blood of JESUS CHRIST be poured over your
website and I rebuke this website in the name of the Father, the Son and
the HOLY SPIRIT!

Great! That means it's even more proof that your god doesn't exist, because this site isn't going anywhere. Smiling

Quote:
Remember, as it says in the Bible, "For it is written,
As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue
shall confess to God." Romans 14:11 One day you will meet this God who
you so ignorantly deny. I pray that you wake up before it is to late.
Where are you going to spend eternity after you die? We all are going to
die. Prove to me that there is no Heaven or no Hell. May God have mercy
on your souls! Take this following test:

http://www.needgod.com/index.shtml

That's not a test. It's a laughable religious tool of dogma, fear, egotism, and hatred.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


deludedgod
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How can you ask people to

How can you ask people to deny a God that you believe does not exist? In reality, Atheists do not exist.

 

That doesn't make any sense. Care to elaborate?

If you would take the time to examine the evidence, there can be no doubt that God exists.

I am a scientist. I have examined more evidence than you can possibly imagine. The explanation for life arising without a designer is completely sound.

Every building has a builder. Everything made has a
maker. The existence of the Creator is axiomatic (self-evident).

The only thing that Aquinas' cosmological argument proves is that there was a first cause. It does not prove an anthropomorphic, supernatural, male, deity. The idea of the Judeo-Christian-Islamic God, or any other man-made deity, has absolutely no basis in reality whatsoever. The first cause is a question for theoretical physic, not some idiot theists spouting arguments from seven centuries ago. And obviously a more powerful designer would have had to design the first designer, which is impossible by your idiotic logic because God is supposedly completely transcendant, which means that you believe that He appeared spontaneously, which means your argument is totally invalid.

A professing atheist denies the common sense given to him by God.

Common sense comes from electroneurochemistry and cognitive neuroevolution. This is fact which has been proven by the neurology branch. Care to present with some real evidence that your claims are not just idiotic assertions.

Right now I am praying that the blood of JESUS CHRIST be poured over your website and I rebuke this website in the name of the Father, the Son and the HOLY SPIRIT!

Typical Christian response. I wonder if Jesus would appreciate his blood being poured over our website (Oh wait, he's dead, his blood has long since coagulated and dissolved, so good luck with that)

Remember, as it says in the Bible, "For it is written,
As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God."

I would rather trust a drunker crack addict who sold his mother than the Bible. It is a document that took fourteen centuries to collate properly with various random documents from random scholars still unknown to us and many known to each other. It is a story book, and one with great literary tradition, not a text of truth. The bible says some completely ridiculous things that have been totally disproven, like the Earth was created 6000 years ago in six days, Abraham lived for nine centuries, adam and eve for two, Jesus was born out of immaculate conception (Explain to me exactly: At what stage of embryogenesis does a haploid start self-assembling?)

Romans 14:11 One day you will meet this God who
you so ignorantly deny. I pray that you wake up before it is to late.
Where are you going to spend eternity after you die? We all are going to die. Prove to me that there is no Heaven or no Hell.

When I die, I shall be as I was in the time of the unborn. The fact that life only comes once is what makes me appreciate it every day. You want me to prove there is no heaven and hell? No problem: It is a concept we pulled out of thin air. Every truthful statement must have an observation to back it up. Where have we observed heaven and hell? The same goes for the God hypothesis. For instance, if somebody claimed that fluffy pink unicorns were floating around in the sky, I would be very suprised if a tough scientific and philisophical panel were appointed to rigorously debate and evaluate the possibility of fluffy pink unicorns in the sky. The God Hypothesis, is just that: FAILED. Science works like this. You make an observation, hypothesize, test, evaluate. The God Hypothesis looks like this.

Observation: The universe and life in particular is beautiful, complex, and elegant.

Hypothesis: the universe was brought about by a transcendant, omnipotent intelligent designer.

Experiment: We never bothered with this stage, and that is why the idea of God is just as fallacious as the idea of fluffy pink unicorns in the sky.

May God have mercy
on your souls! Take this following test:

Unsuprisingly, I took the test and it told me I was going to hell. I'll see you there.

-Future generations will smile amusedly at a religion, a force that came and went, comforting as we stared ignorantly at the cosmos, fuelling our primal instinct when we killed each other over our Gods, and then, as scientific reason strangled it, vanished from the face of the earth

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"Physical reality” isn’t some arbitrary demarcation. It is defined in terms of what we can systematically investigate, directly or not, by means of our senses. It is preposterous to assert that the process of systematic scientific reasoning arbitrarily excludes “non-physical explanations” because the very notion of “non-physical explanation” is contradictory.

-Me

Books about atheism