Miracles and witchcraft

curl
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Miracles and witchcraft

I was looking at the videos and I can see why many people are getting upset at the way its being presented to the public.  But I guess making people upset is what moves people.  So anyways.

I'm curious to know what you all think about miracles and witchcraft?

How about ghost?

Or about aliens?


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I personally feel there are

I personally feel there are no ghosts or miracles, and while there are wiccans they have no actual power. There may be aliens somewhere, but none have travelled to Earth.

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I personally do not believe

I personally do not believe in miracles, ghosts or magical powers (witchcraft).  There are people who practice witchcraft, but I think that these are just rituals, just like praying is a ritual. 

I can't imagine we are the only lifeforce around.  I think it would be safe to think that there are other life forms out there. 

If god takes life he's an indian giver


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As far as I am concerned,

As far as I am concerned, it is safe to assume that I do not believe in magic of any kind.

Now, would you please list what you DO believe? 


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Very generally, you can say

Very generally, you can say that anything that is claimed to be "supernatural" is something I don't believe in.  Once you've been around the site for a while, I think you'll see that's pretty much what most atheists think.

Aliens?  I have a hard time considering the possibility that there isn't life elsewhere in the universe, but I see no evidence that compels me to believe they've been here.

Witches, witchcraft, voodoo, prayer, exorcism, faith healing, holy water, anything like this... placebo effect at best, scam artist at worst.

 

Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin

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Welcome, curl! When you get

Welcome, curl!

When you get a minute, we'd like to get to know you a little better. Please hop on over to the General Conversation, Introductions and Humor forum and introduce yourself!

By the way, I do not believe in miracles, witchcraft, ghosts, Tarot cards, ouija boards, etc. etc. etc.  The jury is still out on extraterrestrials. 

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curl
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I like your quote its

I like your quote its pretty funny. 

i guess the word mircles would be an inappropriate word to use.  since mircles are usually related with religion.  how about something out of the norm of science.  doctors on a continueing bases have dignose people for dead and then when the get to live and over come certain disablitiy that scientificly it can not be proven but it happens.that's what i'm trying to get to. i call it mircle because that is a socially used word.  what about stuff like that? do you believe?


curl
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a repsonse to the alien

a repsonse to the alien comment... scientificlly and mathematically there are other life forms out there, taking probablity into account there are billions of galaxies with billions of stars which gives a pretty high probablity that other life forms excit.  (of course what we call aliens)


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Of course there is other

Of course there is other life out there. If the life on this planet is the universe's piece de la resistance, then I am really, really disappointed.

As for witchcraft, I am no Judge Hathorne and see not witches behind every corner.

I think the only thing we can be certain of it  the Force.  Yoda gives some very compelling arguments for it.  I know for a fact that when 900 years I am, not so good will I look.  So, we can probably rely on his word.

"Tis better to rule in Hell than to serve in Heaven." -Lucifer


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curl wrote: how about

curl wrote:

how about something out of the norm of science. doctors on a continueing bases have dignose people for dead and then when the get to live and over come certain disablitiy that scientificly it can not be proven but it happens.that's what i'm trying to get to.

What do you believe? If you are asking what we don't believe, we want to know what crazy magical stuff you buy into, enlighten us.

 

This description of a 'miracle' usually has a more prozaic explanation but those who want to believe in magic and miracles take a leap with an assumption (god/magic did it) and stop looking. 

 

 


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i'm trying to figure out

i'm trying to figure out the forums and how the replies get posted. and i'm trying to read some of the other comments so i won't repeat what somebody already said.  excuse my spelling, i'm a real bad speller, i was religous for the first 13teen years of my life and an athiest for the next 13teen years and for the past five years i've been a reader and analyzer.  i don't think there is a name for that.  i'm don't consider myself an agnotisc or an athiest or religous.  what I do is that i try to educate myself as much as possible with what ever resource i have available.  i don't believe in the bible.  I do believe we were created from something, maybe some type of energy.  because energy is proven to excist all around us. I do believe that we have to be in harmony with nature because its where we came from.  The sad part is that we don't even take care of our planet.  So i see the human species as a cancer to the earth.  eating it little by little.

as the unexplainable, i would have to call it  spirituality.. sometimes there are things that happen and even if you try to look at it inside out as scientificly as possible, things sometimes just happen.  I'm probably not explain myself correctly.  i just have many thoughts in my mind and i am trying to put them together to make sense out loud and that sometimes can be diffcult to do. 

here is an example that maybe someone can help me see in a scientific point of view.  there have many time that i have either have had no food in my refrigerator to take lunch to work or money to buy lunch.  the first time that happened to me, was wierd because all i can think of all day was how i going to get something to eat for lunch.  a friend/co-worker at the time had gone to lunch before me.  when she returned from lunch she brought me back half of her lunch, with out her knowing my situation.  yeah i know what you are probalby thinking why i just didn't ask some one if i can borrow money.  some people are just to private and sensitive about money. (this happened to me many times as an athiest.) at first i thought it was just coincedence.  it probably sounds dumb. (explain this one to me scientificly)

I have had many situations that when i really need somehting i get. i'm not talking about luxuries.  but when i real need of something. that's when i came to believe in energy.. that the energy you give out is what you get. i guess what is inside your heart, metaphoricly speaking. somehow life entertwines itself to give us what we really need at the time.  

 as for ghost i know people in my family that grew up in mexico and have seen some wierd stuff out there in the boonies. i'm not talking about a simple appearances but noises and visual effects as anyone else may call it.  they're just crazy stories.. i try to analyze what they say that they saw and there is no way aroung that stuff it's there and it excist.  i have have only minor experience, but i still doubt them as being supernatural.  my television had the habit of lower and raising the volume many times and once in a while turning off on its own.  i've been told appliance to that sometimes.  so who knows...           

and of course i do believe in other type of life forms in other planet.

I also believe in curtousy, love, humbleness, kindness, forgiveness, rational thinking and understanding. 


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The lack of a quick

The lack of a quick explanation does not immediately infer spirits or ghosts, it just means an answer is not known yet.

Coincidence also does not infer anything supernatural. 

 

Like I said before, when some people arrive at an explanation that makes them comfortable, a lot of times they quit looking for something more prosaic. Rather they stick with a magical explanation that makes them feel warm and fuzzy inside, even though it conflicts with the actual naturalistic explanation from the real world. 

 

 


iluvc2h5oh
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Yeah you are right...

It is sorta like a miricle if someone gives you have a PBJ...Im convinced.


curl
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I guess for

I guess for some situations i just have to wait for answers...i'm not looking for comfort...i'm looking for understanding of situations.... in a rational way.... to me feeling fuzzy inside doesn't mean anything...as time has gone by i continue to analyze any past situations with current situations in life...

 all i have to say is that i like this site.... very interesting... just a little hard to go through all the stuff when some people are just stuck on one thing...the only problem i could see from this is that some people that do not have enough rational thinking would take the RRS site as extreme to hate on religous people just the same way religious people hate on the RRS... but i guess it will be a continous battle....


curl
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iluvc2h5oh LOL.. that was

iluvc2h5oh

LOL.. that was funny... Smiling


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curl wrote: doctors on a

curl wrote:

doctors on a continueing bases have dignose people for dead and then when the get to live and over come certain disablitiy that scientificly it can not be proven but it happens.

Folks frequently being dead and coming back to life?  Proof please.  (By the way, religious websites do not count.)  I would suspect that if that actually happened, it would be on the 10 o'clock news.

 

As for the quote function, if you only want to quote one post, just click on "quote" below that particular comment.

For multiple quotes, there is a tutorial here.  

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curl wrote: I guess for

curl wrote:

I guess for some situations i just have to wait for answers...i'm not looking for comfort...i'm looking for understanding of situations.... in a rational way.... to me feeling fuzzy inside doesn't mean anything...as time has gone by i continue to analyze any past situations with current situations in life...

Since BGH took my answer, I will have to change mine to "keep searching".  There are some things you may never be able to answer rationally, but as you have already discovered, attributing these occurances to the supernatural is not the right answer. 

curl wrote:
all i have to say is that i like this site.... very interesting... just a little hard to go through all the stuff when some people are just stuck on one thing...the only problem i could see from this is that some people that do not have enough rational thinking would take the RRS site as extreme to hate on religous people just the same way religious people hate on the RRS... but i guess it will be a continous battle....

Rational thinking is in short supply these days.  Maybe it always has been.  I do not hate relgion personally, but I do fight against it's infiltration into government and my rights.  Keep reading, keep asking questions, keep learning.  That is the best any of us can do.


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curl wrote:

curl wrote:
here is an example that maybe someone can help me see in a scientific point of view. there have many time that i have either have had no food in my refrigerator to take lunch to work or money to buy lunch. the first time that happened to me, was wierd because all i can think of all day was how i going to get something to eat for lunch. a friend/co-worker at the time had gone to lunch before me. when she returned from lunch she brought me back half of her lunch, with out her knowing my situation. yeah i know what you are probalby thinking why i just didn't ask some one if i can borrow money. some people are just to private and sensitive about money. (this happened to me many times as an athiest.) at first i thought it was just coincedence. it probably sounds dumb. (explain this one to me scientificly)
People are perceptive, and when you're desparate for something like food, it really shows. Haven't you ever done similar for a friend that wouldn't outright ask? It doesn't take magic or psychic powers to read body language and expressions. You might think you hid it well, but when you're desparate for a necessity like food, it will show. In a way it's a bit selfish to send out signals for a handout, rather than just honestly coming clean and asking to borrow a couple bucks. Wouldn't you freely lend a hungry friend a couple bucks until payday, knowing they will be likely to do the same for you the next time it happened? You'll also find the results a lot more reliable Eye-wink

To be honest it sounds a bit like denial. Rather than accept that you're sending out signals for a handout, you deny that you were and chalk it up to magic. I'm not criticizing you because I did similar a couple times when I was younger. The fact is, though, that people would much prefer if you just ask and move on - it's just more honest. You'd be a lot better off just asking to borrow, and paying it back promptly. If it's really that much of an issue, then start putting spare change in a jar for those days. It happens, and yes.. people will help.

Why would the person offer you food if they knew you already had your own? It sounds to me like they knew you didn't.

Edit: And yes, I agree there are other life forms out there, probably even intelligent. I don't see any reason to believe that they are visiting, however. 


curl
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ABx wrote: People are

ABx wrote:
People are perceptive, and when you're desparate for something like food, it really shows.

We are all in cubes so we can't see each others faces and most of the time we are busy with students.  the time we are not busy with students we are processing paperwork so there is very little time to even have a conversation with someone around here.  but i understand what you are talking about on body language.  that specific day I hadn't talk to her until she came to the back where i sit to bring me lunch.  When she gave me the food I even told her i didn't have any money for lunch and i thanked her.  all she said was oh how wierd.

ABX wrote:
 In a way it's a bit selfish to send out signals for a handout, rather than just honestly coming clean and asking to borrow a couple bucks.  Wouldn't you freely lend a hungry friend a couple bucks until payday, knowing they will be likely to do the same for you the next time it happened?  
I think you are getting ahead of yourself to assuming i gave out signals asking for a handout.  there are some people you can't ask money for because of the way they are with there money.  Money to me has no value, only to what its needed, rent, utilities, food, cloths, shoes and car repairs.  I have had too many incidents with money; people that i've lent money in large amounts to; because they so freely ask for it, I would think that it would be okay to borrow even $5; but then you realize not everyone is the same. to some people 5 bucks is a lot.  It’s a only a handful of people I can say I can borrower money from.  this is just a whole other subject. Smiling   

ABX wrote:
To be honest it sounds a bit like denial. Rather than accept that you're sending out signals for a handout, you deny that you were and chalk it up to magic.
 

I never said it was magic.  I did ask if someone could explain this one to me.  I've had many other incident not with food that are so complex I can't even understand (from something mechanical as a car to life situations), and I try not to look at it as something majestic.  But rather analyze it and then hopefully one day I’ll understand, so I just leave it as is. 
ABX wrote:
If it's really that much of an issue, then start putting spare change in a jar for those days. It happens, and yes.. people will help.
Smiling its not an issue... its like everything when someone first moves out of their parents house, trying to budget yourself to pay the necessities and other unexpected expenses sometimes puts you in a tight spot. example, a friend will ask me to borrow $500 for two weeks, i lent it to them thinking okay i have enough in my savings account to cover me if i run out of my expense money.  lets say my car brakes down a week after I lent the money, considering that some mechanics are thieves. you analyze your situation and think. okay can i fix this before i go off and give my money away to some one that might want to sucker me. so then i realize it’s an electrical problem, which is something i don't know how to fix.  I ask around to see if anybody can help, and get no results.  then you just realize that you just have to send it to the electrical shop and get it fixed.  This needs to be fixed as soon as possible because i need to get to and from work and to other responsibilities that i have.  After I get it fixed, and then realize that i'm short on cash after that.  That’s when my situation came about with the food.  by the time my friends pays me back i've already gotten my pay check.  There’s so many factors taken into account in a situation. Smiling  


curl
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Susan wrote: Folks

Susan wrote:
Folks frequently being dead and coming back to life?  Proof please.  (By the way, religious websites do not count.)  I would suspect that if that actually happened, it would be on the 10 o'clock news.

I worded myself wrong.  I was trying to say two different things and i ended up writing two things as one.  what i meant to say that there is cases that doctors will say that the person will not over come there disability and just be a vegetable or that they only give them a week or a month to live, but they recover and they end up having a normal life.  and I've also heard of cases of people being pronounced dead and they've come back to life.  For that i have to find a case, as soon as i get it i'll present it to you. oh and remember not everything that is on the 10 o'clock news is fact. anything in the media is questionable.


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curl wrote: Susan

curl wrote:

Susan wrote:
Folks frequently being dead and coming back to life? Proof please. (By the way, religious websites do not count.) I would suspect that if that actually happened, it would be on the 10 o'clock news.

I worded myself wrong. I was trying to say two different things and i ended up writing two things as one. what i meant to say that there is cases that doctors will say that the person will not over come there disability and just be a vegetable or that they only give them a week or a month to live, but they recover and they end up having a normal life.

There's a reason the phrase is "practice medicine". That means that nothing is a certainty. There's also such a thing as a mis-diagnosis. There are also times that a disagnosis is made when limited medical history is available. And sometimes, the human body overcomes very high obstacles.

curl wrote:
and I've also heard of cases of people being pronounced dead and they've come back to life. For that i have to find a case, as soon as i get it i'll present it to you.

Again, there are things such as incompetent doctors and mistaken doctors.

curl wrote:
oh and remember not everything that is on the 10 o'clock news is fact. anything in the media is questionable.

[sarcasm]

Surely you don't think the media ever slants a story!

[/sarcasm]

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Raki
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I don't believe in

I don't believe in ghosts,spirits,prayer,or any shit of that nature.


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Well, I sure as hell don't

Well, I sure as hell don't believe in miracles. Nor do I believe in any "magic powers".

I have friends who are Wiccan, so I'm not against them in any way. I do find their religious beliefs fascinating, however. It seems to be more gender balanced and peaceful in nature. Their dogma seems to be extremely flexible Smiling "An it harm none, do as thou wilt" and all that.

Can't say I believe in ghosts either. It would be cool if we could come back and haunt people!

Aliens?? I'm sure they're out there. But like god, I can't prove or disprove them. It seems highly illogical that we're the only sentient life in the universe.

I can say I love being an Atheist. I feel so much more free since I finally fessed up to myself. I wanted to be a christian, I even wanted to be Wiccan. But I know that I can't believe in that stuff.

"Killing for peace is like fucking for chastity"