Propigation of nationalism under the guise of a nihilistic outlook...wow what a mouthful!

Chase
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Propigation of nationalism under the guise of a nihilistic outlook...wow what a mouthful!

 

 

Now i'm all for a philisophically nihilistic style of education (allignment with nothing, critique of everything kinda dealy [JUST LIKE SCIENCE!], but just take a look at this. 

www.anus.com

It's almost painful the contradictions. 

 

 

 

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I am NOT clicking on that

I am NOT clicking on that website >____>


Chase
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It is an acronym for

It is an acronym for American Nihilist Underground Society.

 

The contradiction is that they propose a caste system, then eugenics, and then an ethnic style nationalist agenda.

 

They call themselves one thing and propagate another. It's a massive connundrum.

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Could you elaborate on the condundrum?

Im guessing you dont really know what a nihilist is, and thats why you are confused. They explain it all in the philosophy section, might help make things clearer.

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The conundrum is that they

The conundrum is that they are claiming to adopt philisophical neutrality while at the same time advocating absurd social constructs that deeply conflict with a nihilistic  nature

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Ok I understand, your saying theres a conundrum because you dont understand nihilism, thank you for clarifying.

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I don't know what nihiliism

I don't know what nihiliism is supposed to look like in practice either. Can both of you elaborate on your positions?


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Nihilism is the philosophy that nothing has objective meaning, purpose, or value. 

The purpose of removing all value is to build a new values system based on reality alone.  If we start with nothing then we can look at what is real to create value, rather than a misconception.

Anus.com promotes caste systems and eugenics based on reality, that is people are not equal, there is the intelligent and unitelligent, strong and weak, healthy and unhealthy ect... and our current society is nuturing the unintelligent, causing dysgenics. Average world IQ is decreasing and it will keep decreasing if something isnt done to reverse this. People will use freedom and equality to disagree, but these concepts arent based at all on reality.

  If you begin to see and use nihilism as a thinking process and not as an end in itself, it will all make more sense. 

The powerful feed ideology to the masses like fast food while they dine on that most rarefied delicacy: impunity.


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These so-called nihilists

These so-called nihilists crack me up. They don't understand philosophical nihilism and so they think it is possible to base a belief system on nihilism, when clearly that's a logical contradiction. Here's a sample:

Quote:
The Nihilist Manifesto

 

"Civilization is a disease which is almost invariably fatal." - Dean Inge

This article attempts the impossible. It seeks to explain, in small form, a belief system that is at its heart not very complex, but to which the path from our current belief systems is complex and fraught with confusions, whether linguistic, or conceptual, or even image-oriented. There is no way it can succeed. However, all things must start somewhere, and so, for the sake of doing something where otherwise doing nothing is a path to certain failure, we sally onward in an attempt to provide another starting point for those seeking nihilism.

They immediately go wrong when they say "However, all things must start somewhere, and so, for the sake of doing something where otherwise doing nothing is a path to certain failure, we sally onward in an attempt to provide another starting point for those seeking nihilism."

They are at this point no longer philosophical nihilists, they are philosophical pragmatists. For what is the nihilistic justification for doing something rather than nothing and seeking success rather than failure, survival rather than death? There is no justification. The only justification is pragmatism. Hence, these 'nihilists' are just confused pragmatists who've decided to identify with the negative connotations of nihilism by making up an angsty philosophy and calling it 'nihilism'. Sorry, you're just deranged pragmatists. 

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Here's another

Here's another gem:

Quote:
You could even take on the junior form of nihilism, which is a lack of belief in anything, otherwise known as fatalism

Sorry, fatalism is the belief in fate. What you are calling the 'junior form' of nihilism is not fatalism, it is actually the real nihilism. Explain how to get from lack of belief in anything to belief in reality without taking a pragmatic step, and then I will agree that nihilism can be a positive belief. 

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Beautiful! They even use

Beautiful! They even use give-away concepts from pragmatism:

Quote:
Nihilism needs no justification. It follows the pattern of nature, which is evolution: successive replacement of previous forms of organization ("order","design&quotEye-wink with better ones. There is no moral imperative to do any given act, only a practical one, in that if a proposed design works better even in some small way, those design details can be incorporated into the status quo, thus forcing it to the next level of evolution.

All of the bolded text indicate forms of pragmatism. Why is it worth going for 'better' 'practical' solutions if you're not a pragmatist?

The reason I'm going on about this: To me there is a clear choice/distinction between two alternatives, nihilism, and pragmatism. Like Descartes, you start with no knowledge and try to determine what can be known.

Either something can be known/believed (pragmatism), or nothing can be known/believed (nihilism). It's simply a question of whether you can trust your experiences or not.

If these 'nihilists' try to claim that nihilism is a positive ideology, that would be the equivalent of some group making up an ideology and calling themselves the only true 'atheists'. Atheism is simply a lack of belief in god. Nihilism is simply a lack of belief in anything. I don't see how they can justify stealing a perfectly good word and claiming their version is the 'real' nihilism. Seems pretty ridiculous to me.

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From what I seen these are

From what I seen these are racists/neo-Nazis.


Wonderist
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I think they need a name for

I think they need a name for these kinds of pseudo-nihilistic cults. Maybe neo-nihilists (watered down nihilists just like the watered down neo-nazis) or maybe annihilists (they want to tear down the system). Or the nihilistics (like nihilists but not actually nihilists, just nihilistic). Or maybe the nihilites, as in nihilism-lite.

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Chase
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Merakon wrote:

Merakon wrote:

Nihilism is the philosophy that nothing has objective meaning, purpose, or value.

The purpose of removing all value is to build a new values system based on reality alone. If we start with nothing then we can look at what is real to create value, rather than a misconception.

Anus.com promotes caste systems and eugenics based on reality, that is people are not equal, there is the intelligent and unitelligent, strong and weak, healthy and unhealthy ect... and our current society is nuturing the unintelligent, causing dysgenics. Average world IQ is decreasing and it will keep decreasing if something isnt done to reverse this. People will use freedom and equality to disagree, but these concepts arent based at all on reality.

If you begin to see and use nihilism as a thinking process and not as an end in itself, it will all make more sense.

 

 

A nihilistic style of thinking would give way to the completely obvious holes in this manner of thinking. First off, where is your proof that the "worldly IQ" is dropping, second of all where are the methods of determining what the worldly intelligence quotient is?

 

ANUS.com runs it's mouth about a whole bunch of THESE THINGS ARE HAPPENING SO WE HAVE TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT THEM LYKE RIGHT NOW OMG PANIC! and then slips in irrational concepts and solutions that are just absolutely absurd.

 

A caste system? Use freedom to argue against it?

 

People are not cattle, nor can you raise yourself up on a podium just because you have alligned yourself with a belief. The way to solve these problems is education, not tyrannical political systems and divisive social constructs.         

Belief needs questioning and criticism, not respect.


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Quote:
These so-called nihilists crack me up. They don't understand philosophical nihilism and so they think it is possible to base a belief system on nihilism, when clearly that's a logical contradiction. Here's a sample:

 

Quote:
The Nihilist Manifesto

 

"Civilization is a disease which is almost invariably fatal." - Dean Inge

This article attempts the impossible. It seeks to explain, in small form, a belief system that is at its heart not very complex, but to which the path from our current belief systems is complex and fraught with confusions, whether linguistic, or conceptual, or even image-oriented. There is no way it can succeed. However, all things must start somewhere, and so, for the sake of doing something where otherwise doing nothing is a path to certain failure, we sally onward in an attempt to provide another starting point for those seeking nihilism.

They immediately go wrong when they say "However, all things must start somewhere, and so, for the sake of doing something where otherwise doing nothing is a path to certain failure, we sally onward in an attempt to provide another starting point for those seeking nihilism."

They are at this point no longer philosophical nihilists, they are philosophical pragmatists. For what is the nihilistic justification for doing something rather than nothing and seeking success rather than failure, survival rather than death? There is no justification. The only justification is pragmatism. Hence, these 'nihilists' are just confused pragmatists who've decided to identify with the negative connotations of nihilism by making up an angsty philosophy and calling it 'nihilism'. Sorry, you're just deranged pragmatists.

There are many types of nihilism, philosophical, political, active, passive, hedonistic are to name a few. Anus.com uses active nihilism so I dont know who exactly that rant was directed towards.

Quote:

Here's another gem:

 

Quote:
You could even take on the junior form of nihilism, which is a lack of belief in anything, otherwise known as fatalism

Sorry, fatalism is the belief in fate. What you are calling the 'junior form' of nihilism is not fatalism, it is actually the real nihilism. Explain how to get from lack of belief in anything to belief in reality without taking a pragmatic step, and then I will agree that nihilism can be a positive belief.

Is this directed towards Anus.com? Because they never said they were 'junior nihilists'or fatalists.

Quote:

Beautiful! They even use give-away concepts from pragmatism:

 

Quote:
Nihilism needs no justification. It follows the pattern of nature, which is evolution: successive replacement of previous forms of organization ("order","design"Eye-wink with better ones. There is no moral imperative to do any given act, only a practical one, in that if a proposed design works better even in some small way, those design details can be incorporated into the status quo, thus forcing it to the next level of evolution.

All of the bolded text indicate forms of pragmatism. Why is it worth going for 'better' 'practical' solutions if you're not a pragmatist?

The reason I'm going on about this: To me there is a clear choice/distinction between two alternatives, nihilism, and pragmatism. Like Descartes, you start with no knowledge and try to determine what can be known.

Either something can be known/believed (pragmatism), or nothing can be known/believed (nihilism). It's simply a question of whether you can trust your experiences or not.

If these 'nihilists' try to claim that nihilism is a positive ideology, that would be the equivalent of some group making up an ideology and calling themselves the only true 'atheists'. Atheism is simply a lack of belief in god. Nihilism is simply a lack of belief in anything. I don't see how they can justify stealing a perfectly good word and claiming their version is the 'real' nihilism. Seems pretty ridiculous to me.

Eh? Nihilism doesnt say that nothing can be known/believed, atleast not the active nihilism that Anus.com advocates. Things can and are known/believed, but anything that is believed shoud be based on reality, all false values should be destroyed, and make new values and believe things that are based on reality.

 Also, Nihilists dont claim there nihilism is the 'right' nihilism, they aren't a religion going around telling everyone that their philosophy is the right philosophy. Seems an awful lot like we got some strawman action going here I think.

Quote:
From what I seen these are racists/neo-Nazis.

Racists hate other races, or specific races. Nihilists dont 'hate' and they actually advocate keeping all races intact, rather than be completely assimilated into some uniform race.

As for Nazis, im sure your comparing their views on Eugenics, the difference is Nazis were for racial eugenics, and there means to that end was murder. Anus.com advocates intrinisic eugenics, with no violence of any sort, just trying to change society so that it stops diverting the course of nature and allowing the weak/unintelligent to out propogate the strong/intelligent. A dysgenic society leads no where good.

Quote:
I think they need a name for these kinds of pseudo-nihilistic cults.

Cult? They arent religious in the slightest.

Quote:
Maybe neo-nihilists (watered down nihilists just like the watered down neo-nazis)
Watered down nihilists? They call themselves active nihilists, and they use nihilism as a thinking process and not as an end in itself, which is the part I dont think you understand.

Quote:
or maybe annihilists (they want to tear down the system).
When the system is based on false values it should be torn down.

Quote:
Or the nihilistics (like nihilists but not actually nihilists, just nihilistic). Or maybe the nihilites, as in nihilism-lite.

Call them what you want, but they dont 'follow' or 'believe' in nihilism, they just use it as tool. 

 

 

 

 

 

The powerful feed ideology to the masses like fast food while they dine on that most rarefied delicacy: impunity.


Merakon
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Quote:
A nihilistic style of thinking would give way to the completely obvious holes in this manner of thinking. First off, where is your proof that the "worldly IQ" is dropping, second of all where are the methods of determining what the worldly intelligence quotient is?

You can find a few sites on the subject of a decreaasing world IQ, heres one although its not the best  http://oleeichhorn.com/articles/030831-IQ_and_populations.html

Even if there wasn't any 'proof' of a decreasing world IQ you have have to be fairly naive that think that intelligent people are propagating more than unintelligent people.

Quote:
ANUS.com runs it's mouth about a whole bunch of THESE THINGS ARE HAPPENING SO WE HAVE TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT THEM LYKE RIGHT NOW OMG PANIC! and then slips in irrational concepts and solutions that are just absolutely absurd.

Ofcourse they are happening now, and if we dont do something about it now, when should we do something about it? When its too late? How about we dont do anything about global warming too, not until the polar icecaps have almost completely melted, or the climate change has destroyed whole eco systems? You know the saying an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure (err something like that, I dont know the exact saying)

And what 'irrational concepts'? You think eugenics is irrational? Eugenics is basically natural selection, and the society we have now has completely diverted the course of nature. Imagine evolution, but instead of natural selection, the strong, smart, healthy, best adapted to their environment surviving, you have the opposite. 

Quote:
People are not cattle

Ofcourse people arent cattle, Anus.com doesnt say or imply that they should be treated as such, although the current trend shows we could become just as smart as cattle.

Quote:
nor can you raise yourself up on a podium just because you have alligned yourself with a belief.

Really? Do religious people not raise themselves up on podium because they know the truth and that they are going to heaven while they are going to hell? Or an Atheist that knows he is smarter than the average religious person, and that that person is wasting his life? People do it all the time, anyway what makes you think that they are 'raising themselves up on a podium' more than anyone else aligned with any other belief?

Quote:
The way to solve these problems is education, not tyrannical political systems and divisive social constructs.

Very naive, if only education was the answer...

And where did you get tyrannical political systems from? Even if it was tyrannical, which it isnt, its still alot better than the alternative. I think your problem is you just dont understand, you seem very similar to a theist arguing against evolution because he just doesnt understand it (just an observation, not an insult)

 

 

The powerful feed ideology to the masses like fast food while they dine on that most rarefied delicacy: impunity.


Wonderist
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I guess you don't see the

I guess you don't see the irony in a bunch of people taking a perfectly good word, nihilism, and twisting it to mean the exact opposite of what it originally meant.

Imagine a bunch of people saying, "I don't see why atheists can't believe in god. The atheists at esophagus.com believe in god. You must only be talking about the junior dont-believe-in-god atheists."

Nihilism means not believing in anything. The 'nihilists' at anus.com believe in something. They've taken a word that means believing in nothing and twisted it into the exact opposite. They are not real nihilists. They should stop calling themselves nihilists. It just makes them look silly. 

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Quote:

Quote:
I guess you don't see the irony in a bunch of people taking a perfectly good word, nihilism, and twisting it to mean the exact opposite of what it originally meant.

Yes, it is a good word, but I dont see how they have twisted it. Nihilism, with its rejection of assumed and false values comes to the vision that reality, inevitably, exists. Following on from this, because reality does actually exist we have a basis for values to be as objective as possible. Active nihilism not only says destroy falsehood, it also says that if there is truth then take it as such. Were there no truth then fatalism would be the only way. That is not the case.

Hard to articulate my thoughts in english but that should do.

Quote:
Imagine a bunch of people saying, "I don't see why atheists can't believe in god. The atheists at esophagus.com believe in god. You must only be talking about the junior dont-believe-in-god atheists."
Believing in objective and subjective values are 2 different things, so they arent contradicting themselves. Their subjective values are as close to objective as you will get.

Quote:
Nihilism means not believing in anything. The 'nihilists' at anus.com believe in something. They've taken a word that means believing in nothing and twisted it into the exact opposite. They are not real nihilists. They should stop calling themselves nihilists. It just makes them look silly.

The description that nihilism is the belief in nothing is misleading. It is faith in nothing, like moral faith and similar values that have no objective substance . But things surely do have subjective value, and an active nihilist bases this subjective value on observable reality, so this value is as objective as possible. Remember there are many types of nihilists, the thing they all have in common is that they argue that there is no objective meaning, purpose or value. Active Nihilism, which they use as a tool takes this one step further into creating new values based on reality.

The powerful feed ideology to the masses like fast food while they dine on that most rarefied delicacy: impunity.