Child abuse.

genepooldesign
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Child abuse.

Often, when I meet and subsequently debate with the religious types, I have a question for them that usually holds them for a good 15 minutes. "Do you make it a habit to let people threaten your kids?" followed by "Why do you feel it is o.k. for the man in robes at your church to do so?"

Anyone out there have any proven ways to really make them stop and think?


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Unfortunately, when

Unfortunately, when disagreeing with most religious types, you can often see a glaze come over their eyes when you are attempting to present a logical argument.  They usually don't even hear the question.

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I am working on something

I am working on something right now that might help - I dont know though.

I am doing 2 things looking for examples of "abuse " in the bible by god or other "holy" people. Also looking for examples of abuse in the way religion is practice. And comparing them to profiles done by psyciatrist on abusive people. I am still searching for a psyciatrist who dares to do a full study on the psycological trauma of religion.

 

I honestly have a working therory that when dealing with ANY religios fanatic you need to think of them as an abused spouse or child. The abused spouse will defend the actions of her husband/wife  to no end or find a way that she/he did something wrong.As others have pointed out to me the bases of religion is to break down our natural defences. The message from god being " You are nothing with out me " a classic tactic of an abuser. I must suffer to prove my love as in the story of Job.

I am of course working on establishing more basis for this theory as well as working out exactly how to get across what I am trying to say. 

 

 

 


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That theory actually sounds

That theory actually sounds very accurate.


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kaosgrl wrote: I honestly

kaosgrl wrote:

I honestly have a working therory that when dealing with ANY religios fanatic you need to think of them as an abused spouse or child. The abused spouse will defend the actions of her husband/wife to no end or find a way that she/he did something wrong.As others have pointed out to me the bases of religion is to break down our natural defences. The message from god being " You are nothing with out me " a classic tactic of an abuser. I must suffer to prove my love as in the story of Job.

I am of course working on establishing more basis for this theory as well as working out exactly how to get across what I am trying to say.

 

I am quite interested in that aspect of this theory. I'd rather you call it a hypothesis unless you have some examples of this based in fact not special case. For instance, if someone were to say that it was their fault that their spouse turned back to theism then how would it be proven otherwise.

I'd also like to know if you plan to address the abuser becomes abused with regard to religious adherence.

Many of the atheists agree that religion is a form of child abuse. However, I am interested in the adult aspect of this also. I have a special case in that my spouse is re-born right now. I would be happy to answer any questions that you may have as long as they are treated objectively.(No ooohs, Ahhhs, or gasps. Completely scientific in nature.) I would prefer to keep the more private question to private messaging, but I have very little to hide about my life anyway.

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genepooldesign
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In criminal law,

In criminal law, psychological or emotional abuse refers to a long-term situation in which one person uses his or her power or influence to adversely affect the mental well-being of another. Emotional abuse can appear in a variety of forms, including rejection, degradation, isolation, corruption, exploitation, and invoking terror. (from wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emotional_abuse)

Life experience, as well as much research, has shown me, without a doubt, that the religious institutions clearly and openly use their various descriptions of hell to invoke terror in people. Also, rejection is used quite frequently by the religious orginizations in instances where a potential follower isn't buying into their scheme. To me, it's very clear that psychological abuse of children and adults is, indeed, taking place.


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To the topic: A recently

To the topic:

A recently addressed one is this theistic delusion that morality comes from the bible. They point to the Ten Commandments as a source for the knowledge of morality.

The problem to confront is the fact that #5 through #10 were all laws that the Israelites had to live under in bondage in Egypt. Pharaoh's laws were the same laws except for the first four commandments. So in essence the only thing added to the judeo-christian morality was obedience to god.

For quick reference, the ten commandments are in Exodus 20

1. No other gods.

2. No graven images.

3. Name of god in vain.

4 Sabbath day.

5. Honor mom and dad.

6. Don't kill.

7. No adultery.

8. No stealing.

9. No lying.

10. No coveting.

 

Interestingly enough, these are the same basic tenets of buddhism as well. Add a god and VOILA! the ten suggestions, I mean commandments.

1. Don't take the life of anything living.

2. Don't steal.

3. Don't over-indulge in physical pleasure.

4. Don't lie.

5. Be mindful of all actions and emotions.

 

Just as the interviews in 'The god who wasn't there' movie illustrated, religious people haven't studied other religions any better than they have their own.

Sure, the initial reaction is a defensive stance, but a calm individual who presses forth into a sharing discussion after the shock wears off will only help the person see that his faith isn't so special after all.

 

I'm a bad example because I go in with both cranial hemispheres blazing and then go too calm afterward. lol.

 

A typical excuse/apology to the child abuse accusation has been that jesus commanded them 'not to hurt the little ones' which trumped the old testament 'family values' statutes. We see religion as mental abus, but the average theist hears 'abuse' and they think physical.

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I've always found it

I've always found it fascinating how the ten commandments and the buddhist tenets, along with the "basic rules of thumb" from other religions is in all actuality what should be considered plain old common sense. Of course, they usually throw in their self-protective elements...the "no other god" rules and such. I've taught my daughter from the day she could understand me, all of those basic things. Don't kill people, say please and thank you, don't lie, etc. We don't need some guy or a book to tell us that. If every single parent did that, every child would come out of the process knowing right from wrong. It is as sinple and straightforward as that. The book and the god could safely be taken out of the equasion with absolutely no ill effects.


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I am also very interested

I am also very interested in your findings.

If there is a list of people to notify when you publish I would like to be on it. 

We must favor verifiable evidence over private feeling. Otherwise we leave ourselves vulnerable to those who would obscure the truth.
~ Richard Dawkins


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kaosgrl wrote: I am

kaosgrl wrote:

I am working on something right now that might help - I dont know though.

I am doing 2 things looking for examples of "abuse " in the bible by god or other "holy" people. Also looking for examples of abuse in the way religion is practice. And comparing them to profiles done by psyciatrist on abusive people. I am still searching for a psyciatrist who dares to do a full study on the psycological trauma of religion.

 

I honestly have a working therory that when dealing with ANY religios fanatic you need to think of them as an abused spouse or child. The abused spouse will defend the actions of her husband/wife to no end or find a way that she/he did something wrong.As others have pointed out to me the bases of religion is to break down our natural defences. The message from god being " You are nothing with out me " a classic tactic of an abuser. I must suffer to prove my love as in the story of Job.

I am of course working on establishing more basis for this theory as well as working out exactly how to get across what I am trying to say.

 

 

 

 

I, too, am very interested on the results of this work.  May I suggest a regular posting as a forum topic to keep all interested parties abreast of your progress.  

As for the topic at hand, I know of nothing that actually makes them stop running at the mouth (mis)quoting scripture.  You need to shut up to listen, or in other cases they just refuse to listen and shut you out.  So frustrating!!!  These are the reasons I usually refrain from even bringing up the subject, or avoid it all together if possible.  As well, I was chastised by many a peer growing up about my non-religious viewpoints, so I gave up rationalizing with the closed minded a long time ago.  I think those with a strong enough mind will do some research and come to their own conclusions, or at least I hope, but my "faith" in humanity also ran out long ago.

 

The darkness of godlessness lets wisdom shine.


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so for my above post at the

so for my above post at the advice of others as well as actually looking up the diffrence http://physics.ucr.edu/~wudka/Physics7/Notes_www/node7.html

sub theory for Hypothesis.

 

as soon as I have anything substantial put together I assure you I will post it in hopes of it being critiqued. This may take some time as it’s a lot of reading to do and a lot of research.

Thanks


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kaosgrl wrote: I am still

kaosgrl wrote:
I am still searching for a psyciatrist who dares to do a full study on the psycological trauma of religion.

It would seem to me that the two likeliest places to find a group and or person to undergo such a study would be either a school or a think tank.

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Think tank eh? It might

Think tank eh?

It might work better if people work on that idea together. I have a few ideas on religious people and it seems others do as well. I really do think the future of study will have to deal with why people are religious not just why the religions fail.

There is a reason I want to look into sociology and psychology along with my philosophy and science courses.


Iruka Naminori
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kaosgrl wrote:

kaosgrl wrote:

I am doing 2 things looking for examples of "abuse " in the bible by god or other "holy" people. Also looking for examples of abuse in the way religion is practice. And comparing them to profiles done by psyciatrist on abusive people. I am still searching for a psyciatrist who dares to do a full study on the psycological trauma of religion.

I know a psychologist who dares, but I'm currently not very sure of her integrity or motives. She calls us ACoF (adult children of fundamentalists). As an adult child of fundamentalists, my "truster" is broken.

She recently did and said a rash of things that made me back off. The final straw was a somewhat snippy e-mail message that literally told me to "suck it up." Because my "truster" is broken, I took the e-mail she wrote me to three uninvolved people to ask their opinion. I wanted to make sure I wasn't overreacting. The first, a psychologist, said that what she said was "unfortunate." The second, a friend of mine who is also a psychologist, said he would only interact with her on an intellectual level and not share deep feelings. The third friend was not a psychologist and said, "She's a self-righteous, arrogant phony."

Great.

I'd thought I'd finally found someone who understands all the ins and outs of having been mind-raped by fundies and she doesn't "get" strong emotions. Sigh.

There was a psychologist interviewed on Dawkins' second installment of The Root of All Evil? who deals with ex-fundies. When I told the other psychologist that the woman still has some residual pain from being indoctrinated to believe in hell, the psychologist I know said, "She shouldn't be counseling other people." Oh really? I guess not everyone can be perfect. *shrug*

At this point, I'd get the name of the British psychologist who appeared with Dawkins. She seems more human and caring than the lady I know. For a long time the local lady's book was my bible of recovery. Now I'm confused as...well, as hell. Apparently, Christians don't have a monopoly on self-righteousness.

Of course, I could be wrong. Because my truster is broken, I could have partially or entirely misread the situation. I think I'm too gunshy to look into it further. I'm tired of being gutshot.

I just got a note from this lady that she wants to "use" some of my writings and drawings.  She's updating her book and is a film maker.  Right now, I think she just wants to use me and it pisses me off.  Of course, "pissed off" is my current modus operandi.

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