Mari-Ju-wanna

Angelic_Atheist
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Mari-Ju-wanna

I seen one of dem ejumakashanal tVEE shoes.....wait wait wait...lets try that again...

I saw some program on tv that said marijuana was made illegal based on massive fear tactics. Saying perfectly sane and non homicidal people were very likely to stab someone to death, or kill their mother by beating her with a frying pan...OMFG!

Marijuana was tried and found guilty based on purgery. I think it deserves a new trial.
It is no more a "gateway drug" than caffeine or nicotine!

Let us compare...
1. It is not physically addictive, alcohol is.
2. To my knowledge, it has never caused a single fatality, alcohol has caused thousands if not millions of deaths, and serious injuries. (I read or heard the somewhere several years ago)
3. If your at a party and high as a kite, and you decide to bring someone home for "fun and games", your not likely to pick someone you wouldn't choose while sober...AND you actually remember the "fun and or games" the next morning!!! With alcohol you have your beer goggles on and there's no telling what you may bring home, and remembering what you did, HA!
4. When your high and you run out, you will probably say something like "eah, we'll get more tomorrow" and resume counting the dots on the ceiling! Drunk and fresh out of booze?? "heeeeeeeeeyyyyy (sputter spit) lezzz go get more!!!!"
5. High and your partner pisses you off?? "Here, take a hit, (so i don't have to hear your nagging)" and everyone is happy. Drunk? Can you say DV?

Disclaimer: the above is my opinion, based on personal experiences, and observations, not published reports and charts.

We must favor verifiable evidence over private feeling. Otherwise we leave ourselves vulnerable to those who would obscure the truth.
~ Richard Dawkins


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http://www.druglibrary.org/sc

http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/library/mjfaq1.htm

from the link:
The Drug Education Project (DEP) is an attempt to clear up the misinformation being propagated in the U.S. by organizations and individuals more interested in creating works of propaganda and fear than objective pieces of education. DEP is founded upon the same two basic principles Andrew Weil bases his book, From Chocolate to Morphine, upon: (1) "People make decisions on the basis of information available to them. The more accurate the information, the better their decisions will be" [68, p. 179]; and (2) "There are no good or bad drugs; there are only good and bad relationships with drugs" [68, p. 27]. This leaflet is the first in a series of sixteen that will attempt to summarize for everyone what science has to say about drug use. The grunt work has been done for you. DEP only requests of you an open mind and the time required to read these leaflets.

"In depriving myself of the acorns... what have we learned? Nothing! Not one of us has learned!
"Which isn't my point, but very well could have been."
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It should be legal and

It should be legal and regulated with the same restrictions and laws of alcohol.

I haven't myself done it since college about 10 years ago.

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Brian,

Brian,
That is very close to my opinion. As a matter of fact, I wrote an essay saying what I posted and ending with what you said about 15 years ago! I think I got a B on it
Legalize it, tax it, and if you insist, restrict it to adults age 19-21 and above.

averyv, Thanks a lot for the link

We must favor verifiable evidence over private feeling. Otherwise we leave ourselves vulnerable to those who would obscure the truth.
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marijuana is difficult to

marijuana is difficult to tax because the ease involved in just growing enough for yourself.

definitely cheaper than buying a bag at the local busyard, and you know what youre getting.

there are also chemical, plastics, paper manufacturer lobbies to worry about. the farmers, theoretically,should be all for it. im not sure its ever really been brought up. very easy plant to grow, natural pesticides, good with soil, grows like...a weed.

it is already kentucky's largest cash crop. very valuable plant outside of being a drug.

bad bad science surrounding that research, and quite an interesting case regaurding science and the state, actually.

"In depriving myself of the acorns... what have we learned? Nothing! Not one of us has learned!
"Which isn't my point, but very well could have been."
— Ashley Raymond, Olympia, 1989


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A very pleasant narcotic. I

A very pleasant narcotic. I dislike the associated subculture, though I do enjoy it from time to time. It is roughly as harmful as caffeine in my experience.

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Some people still seem to

Some people still seem to think that "Reefer Madness" was a legitimate documentary on the affects of marijuana.

averyv wrote:
marijuana is difficult to tax because the ease involved in just growing enough for yourself.

definitely cheaper than buying a bag at the local busyard, and you know what youre getting.


That would be no different than having a home brew kit for making your own beer. Or more like having a home garden where you grow veggies even though there are commercial farms and you can buy them from Acme. Tax or regulate the sale of seeds and any large sales of final product you make beyond personal use. Large commercial farms and sales can still easily be taxed.
Quote:

there are also chemical, plastics, paper manufacturer lobbies to worry about. the farmers, theoretically,should be all for it. im not sure its ever really been brought up. very easy plant to grow, natural pesticides, good with soil, grows like...a weed.

it is already kentucky's largest cash crop. very valuable plant outside of being a drug.

bad bad science surrounding that research, and quite an interesting case regaurding science and the state, actually.


True, hemp has tons of applications.

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Technically - marijuana isnt

Technically - marijuana isnt a narcotic


Yellow_Number_Five
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Angelic_Atheist wrote:I seen

Angelic_Atheist wrote:
I seen one of dem ejumakashanal tVEE shoes.....wait wait wait...lets try that again...

I saw some program on tv that said marijuana was made illegal based on massive fear tactics. Saying perfectly sane and non homicidal people were very likely to stab someone to death, or kill their mother by beating her with a frying pan...OMFG!

Marijuana was tried and found guilty based on purgery. I think it deserves a new trial.
It is no more a "gateway drug" than caffeine or nicotine!

Yeah, well, clearly, pot isn't the monster they so much want you to believe it is. I cannot imagine a less effective marketing scheme. The target audience isn't stupid and has used the drug - they know what you are trying to feed them is bullshit. Morons.

Still, I have a few quibbles:

Quote:
Let us compare...
1. It is not physically addictive, alcohol is.

I hate that word addiction/addictive, etc. There can be physical withdrawl symptoms from alcohol that pot does not have - specifically the DTs, which is actually extremely rare.

IMHO, addiction is a state of mind, it can have phyical properties that interfere, but it is primarily mental. In the end, I think addiction is a choice. I know that is not PC, and I honestly don't care. It is fundamentally a lifestyle choice I think. This is coming from a man who comes from a long line of "alcoholics" and would probably be considered an "alcohlolic" by quite a few people.

WTF is an alcoholic? I drink, I drink a lot. That does not make mean I'm addicted, nor does it mean I have any sort of physical dependence.

Quote:
2. To my knowledge, it has never caused a single fatality, alcohol has caused thousands if not millions of deaths, and serious injuries. (I read or heard the somewhere several years ago)

Yeah, you are probabaly included deaths from DUI in those numbers. If you do the same for pot, I'm SURE people have died because people decided to toke up and take a drive. I've driven drunk before, high before and drunk and high before, and ultimately, yeah it's totally irresponsible. I no longer do it, but only with weed did I ever go for a drive with people for the specific purpose of toking up.

Quote:
3. If your at a party and high as a kite, and you decide to bring someone home for "fun and games", your not likely to pick someone you wouldn't choose while sober...AND you actually remember the "fun and or games" the next morning!!! With alcohol you have your beer goggles on and there's no telling what you may bring home, and remembering what you did, HA!

Eh, no, at least not for me. I couldn't keep it in my pants drunk, high or sober. It really never mattered.

Quote:
4. When your high and you run out, you will probably say something like "eah, we'll get more tomorrow" and resume counting the dots on the ceiling! Drunk and fresh out of booze?? "heeeeeeeeeyyyyy (sputter spit) lezzz go get more!!!!"

We drove to get more weed in the middle of a hurricane, because we didn't want to be without when we ran out of coke.

Quote:
and your partner pisses you off?? "Here, take a hit, (so i don't have to hear your nagging)" and everyone is happy. Drunk? Can you say DV?

Eh, I would say that domestic violence is more likely to occur while on the sauce than the herb. Still, it isn't because weed makes you a nice guy, it's simply that it makes you lazy.

Quote:
Disclaimer: the above is my opinion, based on personal experiences, and observations, not published reports and charts.[/i]

Yeah, basically true, but ultimately it is different for everyone.

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aiia
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Angelic_Atheist wrote: Let

Angelic_Atheist wrote:

Let us compare...
1. It is not physically addictive, alcohol is.

Is addiction an issue? Sniffing glue is not addictive either.
Quote:
2. To my knowledge, it has never caused a single fatality, alcohol has caused thousands if not millions of deaths, and serious injuries. (I read or heard the somewhere several years ago)
Comparatively alcohol has caused more deaths simply because alcohol is used by more people. Grass has in fact been attributed to many accidental deaths.
Quote:
3. If your at a party and high as a kite, and you decide to bring someone home for "fun and games", your not likely to pick someone you wouldn't choose while sober...AND you actually remember the "fun and or games" the next morning!!! With alcohol you have your beer goggles on and there's no telling what you may bring home, and remembering what you did, HA!
It is because you are still high the next morning.
Quote:
4. When your high and you run out, you will probably say something like "eah, we'll get more tomorrow" and resume counting the dots on the ceiling! Drunk and fresh out of booze?? "heeeeeeeeeyyyyy (sputter spit) lezzz go get more!!!!"
Doesn’t the fact that you are counting dots on the ceiling an indication that there is something wrong?
Quote:
5. High and your partner pisses you off?? "Here, take a hit, (so i don't have to hear your nagging)" and everyone is happy. Drunk? Can you say DV?
When did you realize your partner pissed you off? The next day? Intellectual incapacity isn’t an achievement.

Long term use of grass has been proven to lead to schizophrenia. In some cases schizophrenia developed from a single use of grass.

People who think there is something they refer to as god don't ask enough questions.


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AiiA wrote: Is addiction an

AiiA wrote:

Is addiction an issue? Sniffing glue is not addictive either.

Well considering we sell alchohol and cigarettes(which ARE addictive), and owning glue isn't a criminal offense..... Yeah, it is an issue.

Quote:
Comparatively alcohol has caused more deaths simply because alcohol is used by more people. Grass has in fact been attributed to many accidental deaths.

Maybe, but you could never take enough marijuana to kill you by overdose. Plus, I read in my local paper about a month ago that THC has cancer retardant properties.
You can drink enough alchohol to kill you. And people can die from stupid accidents while not on any drugs/alchohol.... see Darwin Awards.

Quote:
It is because you are still high the next morning.

I have only been high the next morning ONCE and that was when I ATE weed in brownies the night before and only slept for 3 hours(I had to work the next morning). Otherwise, it wears off after a few hours..... Have you ever smoked pot yourself? Or do you just believe the stuff the US government tells you?

Quote:
Doesn’t the fact that you are counting dots on the ceiling an indication that there is something wrong?

Why is that bad? Ever take the time to look around you and see everything? Pot makes you notice little things......although *I* personally have never counted ceiling dots, LOL.

Quote:
When did you realize your partner pissed you off? The next day? Intellectual incapacity isn’t an achievement.

I have to agree on this one....... If my partner pisses me off I generally tell them I'm feeling cranky, rather than drown them out, drug them up, or hit them..... *shudder*

Quote:
Long term use of grass has been proven to lead to schizophrenia. In some cases schizophrenia developed from a single use of grass.

There is evidence for an association between cannabis and psychosis. It is clear that cannabinoids can cause acute transient psychotic symptoms or an acute psychosis. Also it is clear that cannabis can exacerbate psychosis in individuals with an established psychotic disorder. However, whether cannabis causes a persistent de novo psychosis independent of any other risk factors is not supported by the existing literature. More likely, cannabis is a component cause that interacts with other factors (e.g., genetic risk) to induce psychosis. (Malik & D'Souza, 2006)

What should you do based on this research? If schizophrenia runs in your family, then you should avoid marijuana. If you react to marijuana with extreme paranoia or any schizophrenic-like symptoms you should also consider avoiding this drug.

Source: Research summary of Ashtari and Kumra, paper presented at the Radiological Society of North America's annual meeting in Chicago, November, 2005; Asif R. Malik, MD, and Deepak Cyril D'Souza, MD - Gone to Pot: The Association Between Cannabis and Psychosis. Psychiatric Times April 2006, Vol. XXIII, No. 4.


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AiiA wrote:Is addiction an

AiiA wrote:
Is addiction an issue? Sniffing glue is not addictive either.

Addiction is one of the factors I would expect law-makers to take into consideration when deciding on legalization of a drug. However, through your analogy, you have just incorporated a clearly negative connotation. Sniffing glue is very harmful to the brain, whereas the negative health effects of marijuana are minimal. Whether this is a deliberate attempt to mischaracterize marijuana as very harmful to one's health I do not know.

Quote:
Comparatively alcohol has caused more deaths simply because alcohol is used by more people. Grass has in fact been attributed to many accidental deaths.

Bullshit.

Quote:
It is because you are still high the next morning.

What? In my experience, highs last at most 40-60 minutes. I am unable to locate empirical data so support this, however.

Quote:
Doesn’t the fact that you are counting dots on the ceiling an indication that there is something wrong?

Not at all. Furthermore, what one does while intoxicated depends entirely upon the person in question. At the moment I am debating with you, after all! Eye-wink

Quote:
When did you realize your partner pissed you off? The next day? Intellectual incapacity isn’t an achievement.

You mischaracterized his argument. He wanted to point out that unlike alcohol, which often causes violent, erratic, and generally harmful behavior, marijuana makes one docile and calm. The intellectual incapacity persists only while under the effect (short term memory is hampered), and I have found no studies that suggest it has any long-term effects on intellectual capacity or long-term memory.

Quote:
Long term use of grass has been proven to lead to schizophrenia. In some cases schizophrenia developed from a single use of grass.

Marijuana use is correlated with schizophrenia, but correlation does not equal causation.

It seems to me that you have taken a dogmatic approach to this subject, or you are simply benighted. The majority of your arguments are either logically or factually fallacious. Please ameliorate this problem.

An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded.


aiia
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Use it if you want to.I'm

Use it if you want to. I dont think anybody should go to jail for smoking it.
I'm simply saying that it is worse then you think and the research shows it.

People who think there is something they refer to as god don't ask enough questions.


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AiiA wrote:Use it if you

AiiA wrote:
Use it if you want to. I dont think anybody should go to jail for smoking it.
I'm simply saying that it is worse then you think and the research shows it.

Really? Then why can you not produce any sources? I've provided several, as well as some anecdotal evidence. You have provided solely rhetoric. This is bad form.

Furthermore, the majority of your post consisted of delusions and misconceptions, so I conclude that you have not looked at the research, yet have formulated an opinion. Personal experience also counts for something, since it affects different people in different ways. There have been periods in my life where I would smoke about an 8th per week, but there were no significant negative side effects to speak of.

An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded.


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AiiA wrote:Use it if you

AiiA wrote:
Use it if you want to. I dont think anybody should go to jail for smoking it.
I'm simply saying that it is worse then you think and the research shows it.

Insidium Profundis and I showed research! You, on the other hand, have not provided ANY! You made vaugue references to "Grass has in fact been attributed to...", "In some cases....", and "Long term use of grass has been proven to..."
We provided sources. Can you send us some of your proof?

It is no worse than cigarettes, caffiene or alcohol. Which are legal.
It's not the demon weed the DEA wants you to think it is....


aiia
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You guys must be the first

You guys must be the first ones on the planet to be banned from google!

But ok here's a few:
http://www.technologyreview.com/read_article.aspx?id=16994&ch=biotech

http://medicine.plosjournals.org/perlserv/?request=get-document&doi=10.1371/journal.pmed.0030039

http://pn.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/41/3/23?maxtoshow=&HITS=20&hits=20&RESULTFORMAT=&searchid=1138973291692_2412&FIRSTINDEX=0&tocsectionid=Clinical*&displaysectionid=Clinical+and+Research+News&journalcode=psychnews

http://schizophrenia.com/prevention/streetdrugs.html

This last link includes links to the following subject matter and much more:

Recent news on Marijuana / cannabis and schizophrenia (from schizophrenia.com newsblog)
Marijuana Doubles Risk of Schizophrenia - March, 2005
Interview with Dr. Andrew Campbell on Schizophrenia and Cannabis - Feb, 2005
25% of cannabis users faces a ten-fold higher risk of mental illness - Jan, 2005
True Story of Cannabis-Induced Schizophrenia - January, 2005
Marijuana and Psychosis Link - December, 2004
Another Study Links Marijuana to Schizophrenia - News, April 2004
Psychotic Symptoms More Likely with Cannabis - New Scientist, 2004
The Link between Cannabis and Psychosis - Robin Murray, MD
Cannabis link to mental illness strengthened - New Scientist Magazine
If cannabis is safe, why am I psychotic? - Times Online
My Son and Cannabis - a anecdotal story from a parent convinced that his son's use of cannabis caused the development of schizophrenia. BBC News, June 2005
Drug Abuse and Risk of Developing Schizophrenia - (News)
Marijuana and Schizophrenia - (News)
Cannabis mental health risks 'must be taught' - Guardian Newspaper
Powerpoint Presentation "Canabis: The Facts" by British Toxicology Society
Review shows that cannabis use is a risk factor for schizophrenia
Psychiatrists say "No" to Marijuana
The National Institute on Drug Abuse Adds Warning of Major Depressive Disorders (MDD’s) Experienced by Marijuana Users
Causal association between cannabis and psychosis: examination of the evidence. (British Journal of Psychiatry, 2004)
Cannabis use as a probable causative factor in the later development of schizophrenia
Cannabis and neurological soft signs in schizophrenia: absence of relationship and influence on psychopathology
Self reported cannabis use as a risk factor for schizophrenia in Swedish conscripts of 1969: historical cohort study
Cannabis and schizophrenia: impact on onset, course, psychopathology and outcomes
Marijuana Mental Disturbances

People who think there is something they refer to as god don't ask enough questions.


Insidium Profundis
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Your first article

Your first article says:

Quote:
For example, smoking marijuana appears to precipitate symptoms of schizophrenia. Furthermore, schizophrenics seem to have higher levels of cannabinoids in their brains. But animal studies of these diseases have produced conflicting results, says Andrea Giuffrida, a neuroscientist at the University of Texas Health Science Center in San Antonio. The new imaging method, he says, "will be useful to understand exactly what's going on."

The same is true for Parkinson's disease. Some scientists speculate that cannabinoids play a protective role in the brain, slowing the rate of disease. But knowing exactly what happens to patients as the disease progresses is crucial, says Giuffrida

In other words, the scientists have discovered a method of obtaining more accurate information about the effect of marijuana (cannabinoids in general) on the brain. This article does not help your case.

The second article explores the dangers of early cannabis use, and I agree: kids shouldn't be using it (since they are also less likely to be responsible while intoxicated).

Quote:
As a rule of thumb, adolescents who use cannabis more than weekly probably increase their risk of experiencing psychotic symptoms and developing psychosis if they are vulnerable—if they have a family member with a psychosis or other mental disorder, or have already had unusual psychological experiences after using cannabis. This vulnerability may prove to be genetically mediated.

This further suggests that it is dangerous to some, as opposed to all. I guess my view on this is libertarian, because I am willing to take my chances.

Quote:
"An episode of short-lived psychotic symptoms following cannabis use seems to have great prognostic value."

Interesting.

I stand corrected: marijuana is indeed linked to schizophrenia. This should be presented in high schools, along with other relevant data.

An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded.