Calling all British citizens!

evilrabbit
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Calling all British citizens!

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/NoCreSciEd/

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/faithschools/

A petition to the British government to prevent the teaching of intelligent design in British schools. Sorry, you can only sign it if you're resident in Britain.


Vastet
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evilrabbit

evilrabbit wrote:
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/NoCreSciEd/ http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/faithschools/ A petition to the British government to prevent the teaching of intelligent design in British schools. Sorry, you can only sign it if you're resident in Britain.

Ack. This shit better not start in Canada, or I will SO sue god.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


Brian37
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evilrabbit

evilrabbit wrote:
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/NoCreSciEd/ http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/faithschools/ A petition to the British government to prevent the teaching of intelligent design in British schools. Sorry, you can only sign it if you're resident in Britain.

This site is primarly American and gets the most press here. I would suggest that since you have such a huge atheist population there, could you figure out some marketing tactics for Rational Responders and also Infidel Guy's Freethought Media.

One thing that has kinda frustrated me is that we hear so much about certain Europian countries having high concentrations of atheists, but why arnt the sites here able to effectively tap into that market?

This movement by all these atheist sites can grow faster if the sites here could market over there. Just an idea folks.

 

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


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Hmmm... I suppose atheists

Hmmm... I suppose atheists over here are just less likely to feel the need to have specialist sites.  It's strange, I never until recently realised how persecuted atheists are in America.


Brian37
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evilrabbit wrote: Hmmm... I

evilrabbit wrote:
Hmmm... I suppose atheists over here are just less likely to feel the need to have specialist sites. It's strange, I never until recently realised how persecuted atheists are in America.

As well intended as Europians are as far as "play nice" attitude their exicution by hate speach laws are going to backfire on them. It is utopian for any human to seek government forced politeness. It is in human nature to express emotions when we dont like something.

Europians have the right idea that hate and bigotry need to be challenged but I warn against laws that prevent people from having and expressing dissenting veiws that are hatefull.

Common law should already take care of preventing acts of violence. Some of the laws in Cannada and Europe frighten me from a free speech perspective. I think it is dangerous when government gets involved in playing thought police through forced politeness.

In America we already have laws on the books against inciting violence. We have laws against saying, "Go kill this person" whatever the reason is. If you ask someone to kill another person because they cheated on you that would be no different than asking someone to kill an atheist because they dont believe in god.

BUT, it should never be illegal to say, "I hate Muslims" or "I hate atheists" or "I hate Christians". WHY, because the people who ask to ban this kind of speach dont realize that HUMANs, not robots interpret law and what you may think is hatefull someone else may not see as hatefull. It is a bad idea to give government that kind of power because YOU may not be the one in power to determine what is or is not "offensive" or "hatefull"

This site exists because of the Constitution and it is the same with Christian sites critical and blasphemous of atheism. It would be determental to either voice to demand goverment to silence the other. Neither side would want the other in power making that decision on what is or is not hatefull or offensive.

Once you silence one voice through goverment it will eventually get to everyone.

Europe is great in that it knows its violent religious history and seeks to avoid that. The mistake it makes is using government force to attempt to be the brain of the individual mind.

If humans on both sides of any issue say, "No matter what is said we dont have to kill each other or harm each other" as long as humans agree to that everyone can have a voice without fearing their neighbor.

However we see demands by Muslims, Christians and atheists to seek government force to change the thoughts in peoples heads. The better tactic is for the individual to use their own voice without trying to control the thoughts of their neighbor. Leading, not dictating is how social progress works. 

Both the atheist and Christian should not be afriad of competition or the free market of ideas or dissenting views. We can agree that harming someone physically or harming their property should never be tollerated. BOTH CAN AGREE ON THIS.

If it frightens the atheist and Christian that a cartoonist would be threatened with death for dipicting Muhammed(sp) with a bomb in his turbin, emagine that person in a seat of power making laws.

Now think about being an atheist living under politically correct Christians making laws. SWITCH IT, Christians, think about politically correct atheists making laws. I HOPE BOTH SIDES ARE GETTING THE PICTURE!

Freedom comes with personal responsibility. Part of that responsibility is taking responsibilty for your own actions. That cannot be done by demanding the silence of someone who doesnt like you. You are responsible for how you react to things you dont like and no one has any right to tell the other side "YOU CANT SAY THAT". Both as a matter of public discorse can make a case through mutual exchange as to why something is not advantagous. But that is an act of concent, not force.

As progressive as Europe is it doesnt realize that Christians can if given the oportunity use those politically correct laws to protect Jesus from criticism. If it frightens you that a Muslim would kill  over a cartoon, do not give Christians the oportunity to use law to say, "You cant say that". Good intent doesnt equate to a good outcome and lots of people who have kind thoughts can shoot themselves in the foot.

That is my opinion of Europe. It has happened already. Amisty International blasted Itally for arresting an artist who dipicted Jesus on a surfboard. Cannada had a case where a priest was arrested for quoting Laviticus. The goverment of France forced a clothing company to take down photograph of  18 year olds in boxers and girls in panties and bras dipicting the Last Supper. THESE WERE NOT ATHEISTS DEMANDING GOVERNMENT PROTECTION FROM BLASPHEMY!

If it stands to reason that we value our right to say, "Jesus is a myth" we must value their right to say, "You are going to burn in hell". We should never silence them through goverment, but use our own voice to ridiculue their needless hate and bigotry. We have the power of free speech to put the pages of bigotry in the past, but that goal should never be done through OUR goverment playing thought police.

That is what Stalin, Hitler and the Christian Churches of the dark ages and the Muslim zeolots of today do. Freedom requires the individual to take responsibility for how they react to things they dont like without using goverment to dictate to others.

 

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


Vastet
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Brian37 wrote:evilrabbit

Brian37 wrote:

evilrabbit wrote:
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/NoCreSciEd/ http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/faithschools/ A petition to the British government to prevent the teaching of intelligent design in British schools. Sorry, you can only sign it if you're resident in Britain.

This site is primarly American and gets the most press here. I would suggest that since you have such a huge atheist population there, could you figure out some marketing tactics for Rational Responders and also Infidel Guy's Freethought Media.

One thing that has kinda frustrated me is that we hear so much about certain Europian countries having high concentrations of atheists, but why arnt the sites here able to effectively tap into that market?

This movement by all these atheist sites can grow faster if the sites here could market over there. Just an idea folks.

While not a political issue, it has many ties to politics. Especially American politics. I sometimes wonder if it isn't an intentionally created problem. One look at Bush, as the most prominantly advertised American today, should answer the question for you at least to some extent. There is a distance between other countries and the US today that wasn't there a decade ago.

Edit: I shold also add that there is a misconception I was personally subject to for a long time(and I'm not the only one by any stretch who it applies/ed to). I had no idea how many atheists there actually were and how mobilized they could be in the US until a couple years ago.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


Strafio
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Brian37 wrote: As well

Brian37 wrote:
As well intended as Europians are as far as "play nice" attitude their exicution by hate speach laws are going to backfire on them. It is utopian for any human to seek government forced politeness. It is in human nature to express emotions when we dont like something.

Europians have the right idea that hate and bigotry need to be challenged but I warn against laws that prevent people from having and expressing dissenting veiws that are hatefull.


The laws are a little more commonsense than they sound.
We used to have Muslim fundies preaching in public parks, encouraging their listeners to kill and persecute Jews, that they'd be rewarded in heaven. They weren't doing anything illeagal so we had to find excuses to deport them. These laws allow us to deal with these extreme trouble makers.

Quote:
That is my opinion of Europe. It has happened already. Amisty International blasted Itally for arresting an artist who dipicted Jesus on a surfboard. Cannada had a case where a priest was arrested for quoting Laviticus. The goverment of France forced a clothing company to take down photograph of 18 year olds in boxers and girls in panties and bras dipicting the Last Supper. THESE WERE NOT ATHEISTS DEMANDING GOVERNMENT PROTECTION FROM BLASPHEMY!

Hmmm... it seems like the laws are being abused.
The wording of 'hate' does rely on a common sense interpretation.
Obviously, if too many problems pop up then we'll have to change our laws. Until then, the problem isn't too serious.


triften
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Strafio wrote: The laws

Strafio wrote:


The laws are a little more commonsense than they sound.
We used to have Muslim fundies preaching in public parks, encouraging their listeners to kill and persecute Jews, that they'd be rewarded in heaven. They weren't doing anything illeagal so we had to find excuses to deport them. These laws allow us to deal with these extreme trouble makers.

Couldn't they charge them with inciting violence/riot instead of tap-dancing around with immigration laws? Unfortunately, that requires waiting until something bad happens.

-Triften 


Vastet
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Can someone point to an

Can someone point to an article on the Canadian case? I just spent 10 minutes looking, and the closest I came was for a link to the Infidel Guy site without taking me to the article, or showing me where it may have been.

Not that I have a problem with criminalizing hate speech.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


Strafio
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I presume not...I am certain

I presume not...
I am certain that's what the 'hate' laws were inspired by.
There was also the incedent by BNP members but that was racial rather than religious.