How does Theism or Atheism play into your Job?
Offline Im curious to know how religious beliefs or atheism plays into you guys lives at work. We spend so much time at work, at least 40 hours every week, so eventually our notions on religion play some sort of role in our interactions at work. This thread is not designed to be a debate thread (we have enough of those), more of just a survey on social activity. I'll start below.
I work as an emergency medical technician for a company that covers an area ranging from suburbs to a run down former industrial center. Naturally, death is an everyday subject at work, as myself and my co-workers encounter it on a fairly regualr basis. I find there are many different beliefs at work, my thursday partner is a buddhist, my wednesday partner a wiccan, my saturday an atheist, and the rest are mostly non church going Christians. All these different beliefs lead to people dealing with tragedy and "bad calls" in different ways. From my non scientific observations I have found that the religious folk seem to cope with the "bad calls" more quickly and have more solace in knowing that they did all they could. (im not talking about on scene performance here, im talking about the after effcts of a highly disturbing call). A ways back I did a multiple fatal. Nobody got away from that one clean, but as I said before, the more religious the emt, the more at peace they seemed to be. I asked on of my coworkers how they dealt with it, he answered "I know he was just an innocent little boy and his soul is with God now". My agnostic coworker seemed to be more shaken by the prospect of death in such a visceral manner, he said that he was bothered that these young kids lives were crushed in their infancy, he noted that it would be nice if there was an afterlife, if only just for these kids. Granted there are a lot of factors at work behind the scenes in any person's mind, these are just my observations, I have an immense amount of respect for the people I worked with on this particular scene, however I can't give any specifics as to what when or where the call was.
Share your stories guys, Im interested to hear what you have to say.
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I currently work at a Catholic Hospital, Christus Santa Rosa. Well every morning they Say a Prayer over the announcement system which reaches every part of the hospital. Almost everyone bow's their heads or say's amen after the prayer. I outright refuse each and every time. It has bothered some of my co-workers. I don't hide my Atheism. One day I was called into my supervisors office and she asked me about my Atheism. She said I obviously wouldn't be fired but I should try to keep it to myself as much as possible and that I should try to respect the beliefs of others, And it wouldn't hurt me to just bow my head in respect. I told her that when she prays to mecca each day out of respect to muslims then I will gladly bow my head. Needless to say she was kinda pissed about that. I actually like talking to the Nuns who work here at the hospital, they all know I am atheist and I have even had 1 of them tell me she doesn't believe in God. She was pushed into the religion by her parents and as she grew and studied and around the age of 60 she realized that God wasn't real. She simply feels an obligation to the people because of her position. She is also 70 years old so it's kinda hard to start over. The most annoying part is seeing patients claim miracles. For example if a Patient comes in with a heart attack and the doctor has to go through the procedure to restart the Patients heart, and then the person lives, well I gotta hear about how God saved them and they experienced a Miracle. I just want to say to them, "Next time this happens don't do anything except pray, then see if a miracle occurs. No doctors, no EMT's, Just prayer.
Co-Founder of the Atheist/Freethought website Pathofreason.com
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Hi guys. Since you both work in hospitals/med tech, can you answer a question of mine? I am quite sure that what I described was accurate, since I have training in academic, but not medical, neuroscience. In this thread. 2nd last post:
http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/sapient/atheist_vs_theist/10479?page=1#comment-113306
I was arguing with this guy about NDE and OBE. I have the neuroscience training to be able to put forth plausable explanations for this in terms of sensorysomatic cortex, neurotransmitters etc.
In the previous post, I deliberately loaded a question for him where I goaded him into saying there have been cases where the EEG (not EKG) for cardiac arrest patients was flatlined.
He responded that yes, there have been such cases.
From an academic neuroscience standpoint, I know this is complete nonsense. Brain death is irreversible and once the action potentials in neurons shut down, they cannot be jump-started. The brain's electrical transduction is just a tad more complex than that of the heart, with its relatively simple PQRST pattern.
At any rate, I am just checking with you guys whether it is accurate to state that EEGs are not part of the standard package in hospital patients. They are used for epillespy monitoring, specific EEG-related testing (on order), and sometimes for carotid endarterectomy. However, a cardiac patient will not have an EEG attached along with his BPM monitor and EKG unless there is some specific neurological condition under diagnosis at the same time. Am I correct? Is EEG usage common in clinics? I know it is common in research, but I know very little about clinicians and practical medicine. What I mean to say is: Average patient in a hospital bed will not have an EEG, right?
Thanks in advance
DG
"Physical reality” isn’t some arbitrary demarcation. It is defined in terms of what we can systematically investigate, directly or not, by means of our senses. It is preposterous to assert that the process of systematic scientific reasoning arbitrarily excludes “non-physical explanations” because the very notion of “non-physical explanation” is contradictory.
-Me
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The average PT in a hospital bed would not be hooked up to an EEG machine unless the Dr. Ordered it. They would only order it on a person who has signs/symptoms or previous history of Neurological disorders such as Epilepsy.
Co-Founder of the Atheist/Freethought website Pathofreason.com
www.pathofreason.com
Check it out
Thanks very much! I am still quite astonished that I managed to goad the idiot into saying something so ridiculous...your answer has proved very valuable.
"Physical reality” isn’t some arbitrary demarcation. It is defined in terms of what we can systematically investigate, directly or not, by means of our senses. It is preposterous to assert that the process of systematic scientific reasoning arbitrarily excludes “non-physical explanations” because the very notion of “non-physical explanation” is contradictory.
-Me
Books about atheism
In regards to public prayer, I would bring up Matthew 6:5 - 7.
5. And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites [are]: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen [do]: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.
It's funny (but not really) how some people think they are asking us to "respect" their religion, when really, all they want is for everyone to agree with them, or at least pretend to. "You could just bow your head and pretend like you agree!" F--- that! And then you're supposed to keep your beliefs to yourself, unless you agree with her religious beliefs, and then it's ok to parade those beliefs around. What she essentially said was, "Your lack of belief is wrong and you need to keep it to yourself." Poor oppressed Christians.
Some people say that religion doesn't hurt anyone as long as they keep it to themselves. Well, the belief that prayer works and miracles happen amounts to voluntary ignorance. It's just a way to refuse to learn cause and effect relationships. In many cases, that can mean not learning from experience at all. It also means, "Hey, I'm not taking responsibility for myself, cause I've got God taking care of me!" This really is dangerous. I don't want to be surrounded by ignorant and irresponsible people.
When I was in the Army, I was offended when I found out about Chaplains. What? You get paid tax dollars to spout religion? I remember a Chaplain giving me one of Lee Strobel's books, in an attempt to convert me. From the very beginning of the book, Strobel was whining about how there wasn't any universal justice without a god and no one to watch over him, and how sad that made him. It was just another case of a guy "needing" religion for emotional reasons. "I can't face reality! I need a god! Therefore I must trick myself into believing!" It's like a drug, right? That's why so many ex-addicts end up as Christians-- from one crutch to another.
The same Chaplain also told me about "ungodly" things, such as self improvement. How backwards.
In Basic Combat Training, I remember the Drill Sergeants announcing that Wiccans would be given a time to meet up... except they called them, "God haters". Just one of the many ways authority is abused in the military.
During my Counter-Intelligence training, we were learning about terrorism, and one of the teachers said, "We're supposed to be a God-fearing country."
I was very pissed off and often wondered why I should submit myself to the command of people who don't even respect me. I wouldn't participate in the prayers, which wasn't a big deal due to the amount of different religions there.
Currently, I work in a very mature workplace where religion has yet to come up.
At the small company I co-own, no one is religious. (not exactly by design, but it's pretty nice) So can't really say this type of thing enters into my work much. However, I do encounter it when I'm a part of other peoples' weddings or show up at family/holiday dinners.
I don't make a big deal over it, but I do not bow or pray with them. I think some of my family found that leads down an uncomfortable path where I sound right, but they want with all their hearts that I'm not.
Behold the miracle of good cpr and cardiac meds.
That is a pretty ballsy move on the part of your boss to bust your stones about your religious beliefs, even if it is at a catholic hospital. What does she care, just as long as it doesn't interfere with your pt care.
I laughed a little about the EEG thing, the moron probably didn't even realize what he was saying. You are correct, brain death is just that brain death, there is currently no means by which Dr's, etc, can restart that. Maybe he was talking about the miracle of getting a code save on someone who was braindead and that unfortunate pt was able to sit in a wheelchair on a ventilator and a feeding tube for the remainder of their existence.
My beliefs have no effect on my work environment today. I can't say that it was even an issue in previous jobs either. Presently, I'm self-employed and have a business in a specialized field of veterinary medicine. I have been one of the lucky ones who's not been fettered to work for anyone else for quite a few years. That said, when I was employed by others, the bigger issue that challenged my coworkers and boss(es) was my sexual orientation, not my beliefs. I guess on the scale of "evilness", being gay outranks being an atheist. I've been released from employment simply for being gay. (That is the reason why I work for myself now). I was assaulted one night at my front door by gay bashers. People could not look past my orientation to even see what I believed.
Today, my orientation and my atheism are non-issues. My staff knows - it's no big deal. All of my staff is straight but the majority are atheists anyways. Everyone is accepting of everyone else and I will not tolerate discrimination of any kind against anyone for any reason.
My partner is an Emergency Medical Physician. He deals with death at a level 1 trauma center every day. He sees the DOA's, orders the EEGs, calls codes, pronounces people dead, and talks to the families, etc. It's routine for him. He's also an atheist. When he comes home, he needs someone to talk to so I become the sounding board for him. That's therapeutic for him, otherwise the stress would get to him. I think some stories he tells bother me more than they do him - probably because he has to be the one that goes back to work the next day and face it all over again. I can't and won't speak for him. Someday if he joins, he can share his own thoughts.
Crocoduck - A missing transitional link that theists have been hoping does not exist...
Minimum wage factory worker,
let's see 2 Filipinos Catholics, 1 lady from Northern Ireland Protestant, 1 atheist, 1 Church of England and lot's of I'm not sure,although I'm not entirely sure myself whether there are other strong believers, as I never raise the subject of religious belief myself
I occasionally tease the strong believers, I mean strong believers in the traditional sense, not the devout sense, and they occasionally tease me
When times are busy we get in agency/temp workers to help out
So far 2 born-again evangelical Christian's, 1 Jehovah's Witness, and they all decided to try to convert me
then they all decided after consultation, I was the devil himself, and they should avoid conversations with the evil father of lies, and their earlier invitations to go to their places of worship were canceled
I'm a college professor, teaching writing (and some literature) to severly disadvantaged and underprepared inner-city college students in a large U.S. city. Because of my science and technical background, I teach some classes in an interdisciplinary program with the Biology department.
It's always really depressing to me how all my students have consistently managed to come through the public school system unburdened by any kind of knowledge whatsoever of science. So in my interdisciplinary courses, I use history of science and science methodologies as a tool to teach critical thinking, argument, logic, fallacies, and persuasion. I always have a couple of fundie students, and issues like abortion, euthanasia and evolution always come up, so I have the chance to try to get them to think for themselves.
Because of my position of authority in the classroom, I believe it would be unethical for me to step on anybody for his or her beliefs, even if I do think they're deluded. But it's great to have the chance every day to try to challenge all the students to think outside their habitual, conditioned boxes--whatever the source of those boxes. It's a dream job in a lot of ways.
"After Jesus was born, the Old Testament basically became a way for Bible publishers to keep their word count up." -Stephen Colbert
I'm working on placement as a student nurse, and I come across many patients who are dying, and they say things to me like 'I wish Jesus would take me'. It's quite sad really, mind you, they are all quite old, so it is inevitable.
The other week I went to chat to a lady from 'spritual care services'. I wasn't going there to debate, just to find out what she and her team do(makes a good thing to write about). She was very helpful, and asked me if I had any questions, I said 'what if a patient asks you why is God doing this to me'. The reply was 'I say he isn't, it is the way of the world etc etc.
I was good and didn't get in to a heated debate with her, it made me cringe when she said 'we are not all religious, but we are all spritual'. I resisted.
E.V
I do finance in a large PR firm. The co-workers who I actually interact with know that I'm an atheist, or at least that I'm not religious. It's not really a big deal. In fact, my supervisor has all this satan-y looking stuff in her cube. No one cares.
If god takes life he's an indian giver