Where Are the Doves?

Beyond Saving
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Where Are the Doves?

 So Obama has been waging war number 7 for about 6 months now and has finally gotten around to asking for congressional authorization. Presumably because the bombing has been an epic fail and now we are going to throw our troops back into the fray. The argument is over how narrow or broad the language should be, why the fuck isn't anyone asking if we should be doing anything at all? Every country we have gotten involved in that section of the world is worse off, Syria, Libya, Iraq, Pakistan, Yemen and Somalia are all clusterfuck recruiting grounds for ISIS mostly thanks to our constant drone bombings murdering civilians and our ineffective use of special ops. 

Is ISIS likely to launch a full scale attack against us? No. The worst they do is recruit a few people to their cause within our population, which is aided by anyone who gives a shit enough to pay attention to the civilians killed directly and indirectly by our bombings. Bama promised to get us out of wars, yet every year he digs us in deeper. Where are they doves?

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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I've been against war since

I've been against war since I got out of the Marines with maybe the exception of Kosovo. What bothers me the most is the inflated, bullshit reasons they use to start the conflict. Then they have no clear plan on how to carry out the mission or the mission starts with one direction and time frame, only to be modified to fit political needs.

I'm against the idea of sending any troops in to fight again. I'm also against us using drones even if they are effective. Let Jordan and the rest of the other countries handle the shit. Maybe send advisors in to assist. Give some money or equipment.


Beyond Saving
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 Why Kosovo? Change of view

 Why Kosovo? Change of view over time, or would you consider supporting it if the same situation arose today?

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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Beyond Saving wrote: Why

Beyond Saving wrote:

 Why Kosovo? Change of view over time, or would you consider supporting it if the same situation arose today?

It is a change of view over time. Genocides are unique and deserve consideration for intervention. There are other genocides which I would reconsider. For example there is a 'genocide' or sorts in Tibet which I do not think military action would be acceptable.


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 You simply hate him. Get

 You simply hate him. Get the fuck over yourself Beyond. You have hated him since day one even before he took his first oath. Go fu. Bush put us in this mess with two wars he had no plan for stability or a way out.

Now the truth of the matter is long term and outside WW1 and WW2 our forgien policy has sucked. Now instead of going after one man, how about addressing our long term policy.

You are the same on every damned topic. You simply don't like losing. You think just like a theist. Unless you are the alpha male and you drive the bus, the world is going to end. 

You couldn't do any better and with your sucking the dick of global corportism, you'd protect the weapons industry just because it is part of the private sector. Obama is doing a great job considering the fucking right wing standing in his way shitting on everything he tries to fix. 

You are simply a sore loser. Typical male who cries like a fucking baby when they don't get everything they want.

 

 

 

 

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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Brian37 wrote: You simply

Brian37 wrote:

 You simply hate him. Get the fuck over yourself Beyond. You have hated him since day one even before he took his first oath. Go fu. Bush put us in this mess with two wars he had no plan for stability or a way out.

Now the truth of the matter is long term and outside WW1 and WW2 our forgien policy has sucked. Now instead of going after one man, how about addressing our long term policy.

You are the same on every damned topic. You simply don't like losing. You think just like a theist. Unless you are the alpha male and you drive the bus, the world is going to end. 

You couldn't do any better and with your sucking the dick of global corportism, you'd protect the weapons industry just because it is part of the private sector. Obama is doing a great job considering the fucking right wing standing in his way shitting on everything he tries to fix. 

You are simply a sore loser. Typical male who cries like a fucking baby when they don't get everything they want.

 

 

 

 

 

So war is great when Bama does it, but terrible when Bush does it. Got it. BTW, men don't cry, only liberal losers do that.

 

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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well, i voted for obama both

well, i voted for obama both times and i think this action is a load of bullshit. i don't care what bush left him, if you don't want to go into a country, you don't go in. you could also argue bush's iraqi misadventure was the inevitable result of clinton's undercover wars in the middle east. you could argue clinton's undercover wars were the inevitable result of bush sr.'s first iraq fuck-up. every fucking president can just pass responsibility to his predecessor.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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iwbiek wrote:well, i voted

iwbiek wrote:
well, i voted for obama both times and i think this action is a load of bullshit. i don't care what bush left him, if you don't want to go into a country, you don't go in. you could also argue bush's iraqi misadventure was the inevitable result of clinton's undercover wars in the middle east. you could argue clinton's undercover wars were the inevitable result of bush sr.'s first iraq fuck-up. every fucking president can just pass responsibility to his predecessor.

I agree, and foreign policy is probably the hardest to change course on without risking a lot when many lives are at stake. I can actually appreciate the argument that ISIS was our fault and therefore we have a moral obligation to clean up our mess (I actually supported putting a permanent military base in Iraq for that very reason, even though I opposed the initial war.) I could even get behind it if Obama came out and made that argument and committed to conquering the area and putting it under direct US control. But that isn't the argument being made, ISIS is some super group that us Americans should fear on a personal level.

 

 

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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Brian37 wrote: You simply

Brian37 wrote:

 You simply hate him. Get the fuck over yourself Beyond. You have hated him since day one even before he took his first oath. Go fu. Bush put us in this mess with two wars he had no plan for stability or a way out.

Now the truth of the matter is long term and outside WW1 and WW2 our forgien policy has sucked. Now instead of going after one man, how about addressing our long term policy.

You are the same on every damned topic. You simply don't like losing. You think just like a theist. Unless you are the alpha male and you drive the bus, the world is going to end. 

You couldn't do any better and with your sucking the dick of global corportism, you'd protect the weapons industry just because it is part of the private sector. Obama is doing a great job considering the fucking right wing standing in his way shitting on everything he tries to fix. 

You are simply a sore loser. Typical male who cries like a fucking baby when they don't get everything they want.

 

 

 

 

 


What the fuck are you doing? Don't you have any thing better to do?


digitalbeachbum
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Beyond Saving wrote:that

Beyond Saving wrote:
that ISIS was our fault and therefore we have a moral obligation to clean up our mess (I actually supported putting a permanent military base in Iraq for that very reason, even though I opposed the initial war.) I could even get behind it if Obama came out and made that argument and committed to conquering the area and putting it under direct US control. But that isn't the argument being made, ISIS is some super group that us Americans should fear on a personal level.

 

 

I have thought about that, putting a base in Iraq, then have total control over the area. However you'd have a lot of friction from the rent of the middle eastern countries.

ISIS is our fault. We should clean up the mess but are suggesting a joint or solo operation?


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All against war. But never

All against war. But all for the cause of war.. Thank you 'rational' responders.


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War is the natural state of

War is the natural state of the universe. I'm not against it.

I am against pointless wars, but I've been watching them happen all my life. I don't think I have much indignation left. Bush really pushed the limits of my credulity. And then Obama showed there's no real difference to the rest of the world who holds power in the white house. All America cares about is America.

People want to kill people. Fine. Just leave me alone. Or I'll kill you.

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