Nelson Mandela dead.

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Nelson Mandela dead.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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i don't have time to read

i don't have time to read this particular article, but i wonder if it mentions mandela's career as a guerilla fighter who attacked government installations and frequently hobnobbed with fidel castro.

not tha't i'm criticizing mandela's use of violence, but i'm sick of his fucking gandhi image.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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iwbiek wrote:i don't have

iwbiek wrote:
i don't have time to read this particular article, but i wonder if it mentions mandela's career as a guerilla fighter who attacked government installations and frequently hobnobbed with fidel castro. not tha't i'm criticizing mandela's use of violence, but i'm sick of his fucking gandhi image.

Of course it doesn't. Americans don't want to know about reality be it Guy, Che, or Mandela. History is much more pleasant when you ignore it. If it didn't make the movie, odds are that the journalist probably doesn't even know.

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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iwbiek wrote:i don't have

iwbiek wrote:
i don't have time to read this particular article, but i wonder if it mentions mandela's career as a guerilla fighter who attacked government installations and frequently hobnobbed with fidel castro. not tha't i'm criticizing mandela's use of violence, but i'm sick of his fucking gandhi image.

Said the guy with the a communist red flag and the 3 biggest minds that lead to Stalin. Or am I confused and they were actually decent minds whom Stalin simply twisted and hijacked?

So when white men are missunderstood, that is ok. But when a black guy is missunderstood, then they are a terrorist.

Of course the white majority is going to make those claims, paint the people you oppress as the villain.

 

 

 

 

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iwbiek wrote:i don't have

iwbiek wrote:
i don't have time to read this particular article, but i wonder if it mentions mandela's career as a guerilla fighter who attacked government installations and frequently hobnobbed with fidel castro. not tha't i'm criticizing mandela's use of violence, but i'm sick of his fucking gandhi image.

That was in Castro's early days fyi, I doubt the Mandela who came out of prison and got ellected president would support the old Castro. Or the current Cuban government. People do change over time.

You do know Jefferson supported the French Revolution which ended up with Napoleon. I am sure he didn't like the outcome.

If I remember some here support Putin whom Hitchens called a KGB thug. And And he also wrote a book about Mother Teresa called her a fraud and called her a friend to poverty (meaning perpetuating it).

 

 

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Brian37 wrote:So when white

Brian37 wrote:

So when white men are missunderstood, that is ok.

 

     Sure it's okay.  I would guess that the vast majority of atheists here at RRS are white people and yet you misunderstand 90 % of the posts you respond to....

 

     

 

  

Brian37 wrote:
  But when a black guy is missunderstood, then they are a terrorist.

 

                         I don't understand ?

 

 

 

Brian37 wrote:
Of course the white majority is going to make those claims, paint the people you oppress as the villain.

 

                  Mandela is from South Africa.  White people have never been the majority in that nation and they never will be.   Did you "missunderstand" that fact ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

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ProzacDeathWish

ProzacDeathWish wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

So when white men are missunderstood, that is ok.

 

     Sure it's okay.  I would guess that the vast majority of atheists here at RRS are white people and yet you misunderstand 90 % of the posts you respond to....

 

     

 

  

Brian37 wrote:
  But when a black guy is missunderstood, then they are a terrorist.

 

                         I don't understand ?

 

 

 

Brian37 wrote:
Of course the white majority is going to make those claims, paint the people you oppress as the villain.

 

                  Mandela is from South Africa.  White people have never been the majority in that nation and they never will be.   Did you "missunderstand" that fact ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

No shit, but there was a white political minority that invaded a poor country and oppressed the people they invaded. Much like white Europeans invaded the Americas because they had better weapons and more political funding.

Otherwise if the black majority had superior political power they would not have been oppressed.

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Brian37 wrote:iwbiek wrote:i

Brian37 wrote:

iwbiek wrote:
i don't have time to read this particular article, but i wonder if it mentions mandela's career as a guerilla fighter who attacked government installations and frequently hobnobbed with fidel castro. not tha't i'm criticizing mandela's use of violence, but i'm sick of his fucking gandhi image.

Said the guy with the a communist red flag and the 3 biggest minds that lead to Stalin. Or am I confused and they were actually decent minds whom Stalin simply twisted and hijacked?

So when white men are missunderstood, that is ok. But when a black guy is missunderstood, then they are a terrorist.

Of course the white majority is going to make those claims, paint the people you oppress as the villain.

 

 

 

 

you really are the stupidest, more uncomprehending, knee-jerkingest reader i've ever met. LOOK AT MY POST.

who said anything about "terrorist"? i said "guerilla." that's not the same, not that you would know anything about that because your constant, tiresome repetition on this site shows you have the vocabulary of a dustmite.

LOOK AT MY POST.

i'll quote the relevant sentence, because i have no hope you'll be able to find it. even then, i doubt you'll comprehend it.

iwbiek wrote:
not that i'm criticizing mandela's use of violence

would you like me to run that by you one more time?

iwbiek wrote:
not that i'm criticizing mandela's use of violence

i state QUITE CLEARLY FOR ANYONE WITH A FUCKING BRAIN that i have NO PROBLEM with mandela's tactics. MY ONLY PROBLEM is how his IMAGE has been cultivated since his release from prison and the INTENTIONAL BURYING of his violent past.

and trying to lump RACE in with that is just fucking childish, SURPRISE SURPRISE. i've always been an admirer of patrice lumumba (do a google search now because i know you have no fucking clue who that is) who was both a BLACK AFRICAN and OPENLY ADVOCATED VIOLENT REVOLUTION. so OBVIOUSLY (once again, for people who aren't DEFICIENT) i have no problem in principle with "black guys" being "violent revolutionaries".

i'm not painting ANYBODY as a villain. YOU, on the other hand, are attempting to make a FUCKING CAREER OF IT.

do me a favor. just stop fucking talking to me until you grow a modicum of fucking intelligence.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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Ok let me dumb this down for

Ok let me dumb this down for you.

Someone kicks you in the nuts long enough, if you think you have a shot at kicking them back, you are going to take that shot. Now if someone comes along and says "I can help you" being young, or naive you might take that help. Just like Jefferson fought a Revolution, saw the disparity in France and initially supported the Revolution in France. Then when it ended up with Napoleon, thought "shit, didn't see that coming".

Mandela is pictured with both Bush Jr and Clinton, so unless you want to equate all of our government as being like Castro I think you are kinda fucked.

 

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Brian37 wrote:iwbiek wrote:i

Brian37 wrote:

iwbiek wrote:
i don't have time to read this particular article, but i wonder if it mentions mandela's career as a guerilla fighter who attacked government installations and frequently hobnobbed with fidel castro. not tha't i'm criticizing mandela's use of violence, but i'm sick of his fucking gandhi image.

That was in Castro's early days fyi, I doubt the Mandela who came out of prison and got ellected president would support the old Castro.

for MY information??? motherfucker, do you want to talk castro with me, because i will BURY YOU and anyone else on this fucking site on that topic. i've made a study of castro and the cuban revolution for the last 8 years.

do a google image search for "castro mandela." it will be quite obvious that throughout the '90s and '00s, mandela did nothing to distance himself from the man. NOT THAT I EVEN SAID THAT WAS WRONG. i just like to point it out because the western press has always intentionally IGNORED it.

and stop waving jefferson at me. i don't give two fucks what jefferson did or did not do.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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Quote:i have NO PROBLEM with

Quote:
i have NO PROBLEM with mandela's tactics. MY ONLY PROBLEM is how his IMAGE has been cultivated since his release from prison and the INTENTIONAL BURYING of his violent past.

I haven't seen it? I've seen plenty of clips of Malcom X type statements from his early days saying "We don't want to do it, but if it comes to that".

But what the fuck does that have to do with Castro, and remember the avatar you have when you respond and the outcome that arose from those men.

 

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Brian37 wrote:Ok let me dumb

Brian37 wrote:

Ok let me dumb this down for you.

Someone kicks you in the nuts long enough, if you think you have a shot at kicking them back, you are going to take that shot. Now if someone comes along and says "I can help you" being young, or naive you might take that help. Just like Jefferson fought a Revolution, saw the disparity in France and initially supported the Revolution in France. Then when it ended up with Napoleon, thought "shit, didn't see that coming".

Mandela is pictured with both Bush Jr and Clinton, so unless you want to equate all of our government as being like Castro I think you are kinda fucked.

 

I'M NOT CRITICIZING MANDELA, AS I MADE QUITE CLEAR, YOU BRAINLESS

STUPID

FUCKING

CUNT.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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Brian37 wrote:remember the

Brian37 wrote:
remember the avatar you have when you respond and the outcome that arose from those men.

 

yeah, let's remember that, brian. let's talk the soviet union. you start.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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iwbiek wrote:Brian37

iwbiek wrote:
Brian37 wrote:

Ok let me dumb this down for you.

Someone kicks you in the nuts long enough, if you think you have a shot at kicking them back, you are going to take that shot. Now if someone comes along and says "I can help you" being young, or naive you might take that help. Just like Jefferson fought a Revolution, saw the disparity in France and initially supported the Revolution in France. Then when it ended up with Napoleon, thought "shit, didn't see that coming".

Mandela is pictured with both Bush Jr and Clinton, so unless you want to equate all of our government as being like Castro I think you are kinda fucked.

 

I'M NOT CRITICIZING MANDELA, AS I MADE QUITE CLEAR, YOU BRAINLESS STUPID FUCKING CUNT.

 

Yes you are. In American history, we have made deals with our enemies for political goals. We have glossed over our own violence and called it virtue. Many times we look back as a nation to those deals and think "What was I thinking".

I have seen nothing hidden about his life. I see a man who was oppressed, and like many in their youth will seek help where they can find it. Sometimes that help isn't what we think it is and then change our positions over time.

Hitchens political views and economic views in his youth is not the same as it was in his later years. He was a fan of the oppressed always, but would have admitted to his youthful naive views.

Mandela was not the same man in his youth as he was when he came out of prison.

 

 

 

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Brian37 wrote:  No shit,

Brian37 wrote:

 

 No shit, but there was a white political minority that invaded a poor country and oppressed the people they invaded.

 

              Even if I was an African American you still couldn't make me move to that shit-hole of a country.  I would post South African ( black majority ) crime stats compared to the U.S. ( white majority ) but I know you wouldn't take the time to actually examine them.

 

    Apartheid has been abolished for almost twenty years and they have little progress to show for it.  

 

 

Patrick is an edgy edgelord.


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Brian37 wrote: Yes you are.

Brian37 wrote:

 

Yes you are. In America....blah blah blah...was when he came out of prison.

 

 

 

 

   Ooops !  Brian, I'm just going to sit back for awhile and let iwbiek and Beyond take turns using actual facts to completely shred your feeble responses.  Please continue.

Patrick is an edgy edgelord.


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Brian37 wrote:Yes you

Brian37 wrote:
Yes you are.

IN WHAT WAY? WHY, brian? because you fucking WANT me to? so that you can have another fucking thing to argue about?

i stated FACTS. if you jump to explain or defend those FACTS, that says WAY more about YOUR perspective on violent revolution than MINE. i neither supported nor condemned those FACTS. i merely STATED them.

if i criticized ANYONE, it was the western press and those responsible for mandela's image, which i'm sure was quite a large group of people, as it is for most internationally known political figures.

you're wrong. have you ever admitted you're wrong on this site? be honest. ever?

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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iwbiek wrote:Brian37

iwbiek wrote:
Brian37 wrote:
remember the avatar you have when you respond and the outcome that arose from those men.

 

 

yeah, let's remember that, brian. let's talk the soviet union. you start.

You have men, on a red flag, that are rightfully or wrongfully associated with Stalin. You can shout until the cows come home that what they said was "missunderstood". Most in the west would not give you the time of day even if you are right.

The idea of social stability or "socialism" not as most see it in the west or the "Stalin" fearmongering, which is what most see in that avatar, isn't a bad idea. But with all ideas you still deal with humans and someone can take that idea and create a monopoly out of it, which is what Stalin did.

That was a violent revolution. The outcome simply shifted one monopoly to another and Stalin took empathetic ideas and simply used them to create his own political monopoly. Many people followed him not knowing how fucked they would become.

Now you are saying Mandela's guilt by association precludes him from his thoughts evolving.

 

 

 

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Brian37 wrote:Now you are

Brian37 wrote:
Now you are saying Mandela's guilt by association precludes him from his thoughts evolving.

 

 

 

WHERE DO I SAY MANDELA IS "GUILTY" OF ANYTHING?????? WHERE DO I TALK ABOUT HIS "THOUGHTS" AT ALL, EVOLVING OR OTHERWISE?????

FUCKING QUOTE ME, YOU INTENTIONALLY MISLEADING, MISREPRESENTING, DISHONEST, UNETHICAL, UNTRUSTWORTHY, DEMAGOGIC, HYSTERICAL, LYING SACK OF SHIT! IF ANYONE HERE IS ATTEMPTING A CHARACTER ASSASSINATION, IT'S YOU!

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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Brian37 wrote:That was a

Brian37 wrote:
That was a violent revolution.

oh btw, ignorant cunt, the russian october revolution was accomplished with virtually zero violence.

the russian civil war that followed was violent, but it was due to the reaction of the tsarist military establishment. it was not initiated by the bolsheviks.

oh woooow, brian knows jack shit of what he's talking about. imagine that...

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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FACT,  EUROPEANS INVADED

FACT,  EUROPEANS INVADED THE AMERICAS

FACT, WE HAD SLAVERY

FACT, WE INTERNED INNOCENT JAPANESE

FACT, REAGAN TRADED ARMS WITH OUR ENEMIES

That was glossed over.

 

It does not shock me when you say he allied with people who got violent. Martin Luther King and Malcolm X were competing at the same time. I am sure King at least thought "Don't do it that way, but I do understand if you do". And Malcolm X at the end of his life became disillusioned with those he had followed and came to the conclusion that humans were really in it together.

 

I see Mandela's path much the same. No human is perfect. Jefferson certainly was not.

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you truly are a delusional,

you truly are a delusional, despicable, sad little man with no intellectual integrity--indeed, no intellect at all. you put words into everybody else's fucking mouth and dance around any objections they have with irrelevant non sequiturs. you are utterly unable to move beyond your narrow view of the world and whatever argument you're in at the time. you spout banalities like a stuck tape recorder.

at first, i thought you were irritating.

then stupid.

now, right now tonight, i realize the depth of your dishonesty to yourself and others. you seriously need to go somewhere and take a long look at yourself. because currently, you are a bad fucking person.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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  It's obvious from Brian's

  It's obvious from Brian's inability to even answer a single question that you put to him that he can't maintain his mental focus for more than a few minutes at best.   It's no wonder that his career choice embodies absolutely no challenges whatsoever.  In both areas of his life it's truly the best he can do.

Patrick is an edgy edgelord.


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ProzacDeathWish

ProzacDeathWish wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

 

 No shit, but there was a white political minority that invaded a poor country and oppressed the people they invaded.

 

              Even if I was an African American you still couldn't make me move to that shit-hole of a country.  I would post South African ( black majority ) crime stats compared to the U.S. ( white majority ) but I know you wouldn't take the time to actually examine them.

 

    Apartheid has been abolished for almost twenty years and they have little progress to show for it.  

 

 

Ok, so then they should have kept Apartheid?

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Brian37

Brian37 wrote:

ProzacDeathWish wrote:

 

 

    Apartheid has been abolished for almost twenty years and they have little progress to show for it.  

 

 

Ok, so then they should have kept Apartheid?

 

   Oh yes, Brian that was exactly the point I was trying to make.  You are one sharp dude.  ( ...rolls eyes in disbelief )

Patrick is an edgy edgelord.


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iwbiek wrote:Brian37

iwbiek wrote:
Brian37 wrote:
Now you are saying Mandela's guilt by association precludes him from his thoughts evolving.

 

 

 

 

WHERE DO I SAY MANDELA IS "GUILTY" OF ANYTHING?????? WHERE DO I TALK ABOUT HIS "THOUGHTS" AT ALL, EVOLVING OR OTHERWISE????? FUCKING QUOTE ME, YOU INTENTIONALLY MISLEADING, MISREPRESENTING, DISHONEST, UNETHICAL, UNTRUSTWORTHY, DEMAGOGIC, HYSTERICAL, LYING SACK OF SHIT! IF ANYONE HERE IS ATTEMPTING A CHARACTER ASSASSINATION, IT'S YOU!

Said the guy with the communist red flag. 

Both you and Beyond complained that the media was leaving out the violence in the struggle. Which was absolute bullshit. The were honoring the man in his totality, the man he became. That was when the news broke, so it is going to take some time to put together an hour or two hour documentary and not just clips with talking heads talking about him.

Last night I watched a documentary on MSNBC about his life, they left nothing out. They showed footage of the resistance and even the tribal infighting among blacks. They didn't leave out Winnie(sp) murder scandal either.

 

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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Brian37 wrote: That was in

Brian37 wrote:

 

That was in Castro's early days fyi, I doubt the Mandela who came out of prison and got ellected president would support the old Castro. Or the current Cuban government. People do change over time.

 

 

 

 

                                         

 

                                  Congratulations Brian it appears that you have fucked up once again and shot your mouth off without knowing what you were talking about.

 

                           

Patrick is an edgy edgelord.


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                                   www.sweetspeeches.com/s/2405-nelson-mandela-speech-by-president-nelson-mandela-at-the-banquet-in-honor-of-president-castro-of-cuba

 

                                                                  All I had to do was "Google" it Brian.   It isn't hard ( even though you will just ignore it anyway )

 

                                                                   

Patrick is an edgy edgelord.


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Brian37 wrote:iwbiek

Brian37 wrote:

iwbiek wrote:
Brian37 wrote:
Now you are saying Mandela's guilt by association precludes him from his thoughts evolving.

 

 

 

 

WHERE DO I SAY MANDELA IS "GUILTY" OF ANYTHING?????? WHERE DO I TALK ABOUT HIS "THOUGHTS" AT ALL, EVOLVING OR OTHERWISE????? FUCKING QUOTE ME, YOU INTENTIONALLY MISLEADING, MISREPRESENTING, DISHONEST, UNETHICAL, UNTRUSTWORTHY, DEMAGOGIC, HYSTERICAL, LYING SACK OF SHIT! IF ANYONE HERE IS ATTEMPTING A CHARACTER ASSASSINATION, IT'S YOU!

Said the guy with the communist red flag.

blatantly and pathetically irrelevant to anything i've said. once again, attempted character assassination.

Brian37 wrote:
Both you and Beyond complained that the media was leaving out the violence in the struggle. Which was absolute bullshit. The were honoring the man in his totality, the man he became. That was when the news broke, so it is going to take some time to put together an hour or two hour documentary and not just clips with talking heads talking about him.

Last night I watched a documentary on MSNBC about his life, they left nothing out. They showed footage of the resistance and even the tribal infighting among blacks. They didn't leave out Winnie(sp) murder scandal either.

 

 

so, i ask yet again, where do i criticize mandela? quote me.

you're a coward. you're a liar. you're a narcissist who can never admit he's wrong.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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http://www.cnn.com/2013/12/06

http://www.cnn.com/2013/12/06/world/africa/nelson-mandela-other-side/

 

(CNN) -- Within minutes of the news of his death, the backlash started.

In the comments section of his CNN.com obituary, on Twitter feeds, in blog posts.

Nelson Mandela shouldn't be revered as a civil rights icon, the statements screamed: He should be exposed for what he is: A communist. A terrorist. A racist.

To be sure, Mandela can't be neatly grouped with Mahatma Gandhi or Martin Luther King, Jr. Unlike them, he wasn't always the pacifist he was known for in his later life.

But should that be grounds for such bile-spewing vitriol?
We take a look at the three most common sentiments in these online accusations and put them in context.

CONTENTION 1:

Nelson Mandela was a communist

What they're saying:

"Before you go all wet and runny over Mandela, remember he was a communist, and he never changed his views."

"So Nelson Mandela was a communist who supported Saddam Hussein and befriended Gadaffi apparently...."

What's the basis:

Mandela was branded a communist by the white apartheid government, which made it a crime to be one. And it was a label the United States was all too content to accept.

The Cold War between the United States and the Russian Soviet Union was in full swing. The Soviets had constructed the Berlin Wall just months before, and the world was dividing up into opposing camps -- allies of the United States or allies of the Soviet Union and China.

This included many African nations.

South Africa's government came down on the side of the West -- and communist or not, Mandela was squarely on the other side.

What's the truth:

Mandela's close association with Marxists goes back at least to the 1940s, when he was enrolled in law school.

He began a life-long friendship with Joe Slovo, "an ardent communist," the anti-apartheid icon wrote in his autobiography "Long Walk to Freedom."

Mandela described Slovo as of the people, "without whom I would have accomplished very little."

A watershed moment tightly bonded Mandela to Slovo and other communist allies.

Police gunned down 69 unarmed protesters in the town of Sharpville in March 1960. Then the government banned the communist party and the African National Congress, which fought for the freedom of black South Africans.

With Slovo and other Marxists, he co-founded the militia movement Umkhonto we Sizwe. It's meaning: "Spear of the Nation."

On December 16, 1961, the group carried out its first attacks on government installations and handed out leaflets announcing its existence.

 

But was Mandela a dyed-in-the-wool communist?

Not really, believes South African historian Sampie Terreblanche.

"You must understand it all against the apartheid struggle."

Mandela found the ANC too tame and had begun to push for a violent struggle in the 1940s, when he headed its youth league, the former professor of economics at Stellenbosch University said. The communists were for the use of violence, and Terreblanche believes it led to the alliance.

After his release from prison, Mandela made some high-profile appearances with communist leaders. He visited Fidel Castro in Cuba.

And to commemorate the relaunch of South Africa's communist party in 1990, he gave a speech.

But he also made a point of distancing his own party. "The ANC is not a communist Party," he said.

CONTENTION 2:

Nelson Mandela was a terrorist

What they're saying:

"It's amazing we forget he was a terrorist"

"Please explain how it is racist to point out that biographical articles about Mandela are leaving out his terrorist actions pre-1991."

What's the basis:

The United States government placed Mandela on a terror watch list, where he stayed until 2008 -- long after his term as President of South Africa, and even longer after his receiving the Nobel Peace Prize.

He was placed on it because of his group's militant fight against apartheid.

At the time that Umkhonto we Sizwe carried out its first attacks, Mandela was at its helm.

The next year, in 1962, he left for Morocco and Ethiopia, where he secretly studied guerrilla warfare.

When Mandela returned home later that year, he was arrested and charged with illegal exit of the country and incitement to strike.

Undeterred, Umkhonto we Sizwe built a militia and in 1963 made plans to start a civil war.

Police intercepted the plan and arrested Mandela and other ANC leaders. Mandela received a sentence of life in prison.

What's the truth:

It's true that Mandela once believed that civil disobedience was not enough to vanquish racism and apartheid. He felt he had to decide between the better of two evils -- submit or fight.

He may not have been directly behind the attacks, said Hermann Giliomee, a historian from South Africa. "He was on the run, so I don't think he had time for the planning on this."

Giliomee finds the 1963 plan amateurish, not exactly the design of a master terrorist. "I think it's a very naïve plan with very little outlook for success," the former professor of political science at the University of Cape Town said.

Mandela changed his views on violence during his 27 years of incarceration.

The rebel transformed into a pacifist.

"As I walked out the door toward the gate that would lead to my freedom, I knew if I didn't leave my bitterness and hatred behind, I'd still be in prison," Mandela said after he was freed.

CONTENTION 3:

Nelson Mandela was a racist

What they're saying:

"How convenient that we choose to ignore that he once sang, 'Kill white people'"

"If apartheid was racist toward blacks, Mandela was equally racist towards whites"

What's the basis:

Umkhonto we Sizwe beat the war drum against the "white supremacy" and "the white state." Its members often sang a song called "Bring Me My Machine Gun."

What's the truth:

Though he despised white minority rule that kept the black majority down, he didn't dislike whites.

"He was rather strong against racism," Terreblanche said. "The day before he was sent to Robben Island, he made a speech in parliament that he was against all forms of racism."

He was prepared to die for non-racialism, the historian said.

Joe Slovo, one of Mandela's best friends, was white -- as were many other revolutionaries who joined him in the militant group.

"Umkhonto we Sizwe is a new, independent body, formed by Africans, It includes in its ranks South Africans of all races," the group said in its manifesto.

Mandela has long espoused the way of reconciliation and called for there to be no racial violence in retribution for apartheid.

In transitioning from the segregationist regime to a non-racial democracy, he partnered closely with his white predecessor, former President Frederik Willem de Klerk, who shared the Nobel Peace Prize with him.

At a sports match in 1995, as President, Mandela made a gesture of support to white South Africans that drew gasps.

Rugby was the dominant sport of white South Africans of Dutch heritage -- Afrikaners -- and was reviled by blacks.

During a world championship match against New Zealand, Mandela walked onto the pitch wearing the jersey of his team's captain. The scene inspired the 2009 Hollywood movie "Invictus" directed by Clint Eastwood.

The crowd began chanting his name. They were almost all white.


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Brian37 wrote:Said the guy

Brian37 wrote:

Said the guy with the communist red flag.

What is your sudden problem with communism and Marxism? You sound like an ignorant republican pulling the red card.

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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digitalbeachbum

digitalbeachbum wrote:

http://www.cnn.com/2013/12/06/world/africa/nelson-mandela-other-side/

 

(CNN) -- Within minutes of the news of his death, the backlash started.

In the comments section of his CNN.com obituary, on Twitter feeds, in blog posts.

Nelson Mandela shouldn't be revered as a civil rights icon, the statements screamed: He should be exposed for what he is: A communist. A terrorist. A racist.

To be sure, Mandela can't be neatly grouped with Mahatma Gandhi or Martin Luther King, Jr. Unlike them, he wasn't always the pacifist he was known for in his later life.

But should that be grounds for such bile-spewing vitriol?
We take a look at the three most common sentiments in these online accusations and put them in context.

CONTENTION 1:

Nelson Mandela was a communist

What they're saying:

"Before you go all wet and runny over Mandela, remember he was a communist, and he never changed his views."

"So Nelson Mandela was a communist who supported Saddam Hussein and befriended Gadaffi apparently...."

What's the basis:

Mandela was branded a communist by the white apartheid government, which made it a crime to be one. And it was a label the United States was all too content to accept.

The Cold War between the United States and the Russian Soviet Union was in full swing. The Soviets had constructed the Berlin Wall just months before, and the world was dividing up into opposing camps -- allies of the United States or allies of the Soviet Union and China.

This included many African nations.

South Africa's government came down on the side of the West -- and communist or not, Mandela was squarely on the other side.

What's the truth:

Mandela's close association with Marxists goes back at least to the 1940s, when he was enrolled in law school.

He began a life-long friendship with Joe Slovo, "an ardent communist," the anti-apartheid icon wrote in his autobiography "Long Walk to Freedom."

Mandela described Slovo as of the people, "without whom I would have accomplished very little."

A watershed moment tightly bonded Mandela to Slovo and other communist allies.

Police gunned down 69 unarmed protesters in the town of Sharpville in March 1960. Then the government banned the communist party and the African National Congress, which fought for the freedom of black South Africans.

With Slovo and other Marxists, he co-founded the militia movement Umkhonto we Sizwe. It's meaning: "Spear of the Nation."

On December 16, 1961, the group carried out its first attacks on government installations and handed out leaflets announcing its existence.

 

But was Mandela a dyed-in-the-wool communist?

Not really, believes South African historian Sampie Terreblanche.

"You must understand it all against the apartheid struggle."

Mandela found the ANC too tame and had begun to push for a violent struggle in the 1940s, when he headed its youth league, the former professor of economics at Stellenbosch University said. The communists were for the use of violence, and Terreblanche believes it led to the alliance.

After his release from prison, Mandela made some high-profile appearances with communist leaders. He visited Fidel Castro in Cuba.

And to commemorate the relaunch of South Africa's communist party in 1990, he gave a speech.

But he also made a point of distancing his own party. "The ANC is not a communist Party," he said.

CONTENTION 2:

Nelson Mandela was a terrorist

What they're saying:

"It's amazing we forget he was a terrorist"

"Please explain how it is racist to point out that biographical articles about Mandela are leaving out his terrorist actions pre-1991."

What's the basis:

The United States government placed Mandela on a terror watch list, where he stayed until 2008 -- long after his term as President of South Africa, and even longer after his receiving the Nobel Peace Prize.

He was placed on it because of his group's militant fight against apartheid.

At the time that Umkhonto we Sizwe carried out its first attacks, Mandela was at its helm.

The next year, in 1962, he left for Morocco and Ethiopia, where he secretly studied guerrilla warfare.

When Mandela returned home later that year, he was arrested and charged with illegal exit of the country and incitement to strike.

Undeterred, Umkhonto we Sizwe built a militia and in 1963 made plans to start a civil war.

Police intercepted the plan and arrested Mandela and other ANC leaders. Mandela received a sentence of life in prison.

What's the truth:

It's true that Mandela once believed that civil disobedience was not enough to vanquish racism and apartheid. He felt he had to decide between the better of two evils -- submit or fight.

He may not have been directly behind the attacks, said Hermann Giliomee, a historian from South Africa. "He was on the run, so I don't think he had time for the planning on this."

Giliomee finds the 1963 plan amateurish, not exactly the design of a master terrorist. "I think it's a very naïve plan with very little outlook for success," the former professor of political science at the University of Cape Town said.

Mandela changed his views on violence during his 27 years of incarceration.

The rebel transformed into a pacifist.

"As I walked out the door toward the gate that would lead to my freedom, I knew if I didn't leave my bitterness and hatred behind, I'd still be in prison," Mandela said after he was freed.

CONTENTION 3:

Nelson Mandela was a racist

What they're saying:

"How convenient that we choose to ignore that he once sang, 'Kill white people'"

"If apartheid was racist toward blacks, Mandela was equally racist towards whites"

What's the basis:

Umkhonto we Sizwe beat the war drum against the "white supremacy" and "the white state." Its members often sang a song called "Bring Me My Machine Gun."

What's the truth:

Though he despised white minority rule that kept the black majority down, he didn't dislike whites.

"He was rather strong against racism," Terreblanche said. "The day before he was sent to Robben Island, he made a speech in parliament that he was against all forms of racism."

He was prepared to die for non-racialism, the historian said.

Joe Slovo, one of Mandela's best friends, was white -- as were many other revolutionaries who joined him in the militant group.

"Umkhonto we Sizwe is a new, independent body, formed by Africans, It includes in its ranks South Africans of all races," the group said in its manifesto.

Mandela has long espoused the way of reconciliation and called for there to be no racial violence in retribution for apartheid.

In transitioning from the segregationist regime to a non-racial democracy, he partnered closely with his white predecessor, former President Frederik Willem de Klerk, who shared the Nobel Peace Prize with him.

At a sports match in 1995, as President, Mandela made a gesture of support to white South Africans that drew gasps.

Rugby was the dominant sport of white South Africans of Dutch heritage -- Afrikaners -- and was reviled by blacks.

During a world championship match against New Zealand, Mandela walked onto the pitch wearing the jersey of his team's captain. The scene inspired the 2009 Hollywood movie "Invictus" directed by Clint Eastwood.

The crowd began chanting his name. They were almost all white.

communist, terrorist, racist--three terms i never used to describe mandela.

1. of course he was not a communist. anyone with even cursory knowledge of what "communism," i.e. marxism-leninism, is, and what mandela's political views and actions as SA's president were, knows mandela was not a "communist."

2. of course he was not a terrorist. only those who lump "guerilla" and "insurgent" in with "terrorist," i.e. those who are ignorant of what a terrorist actually is, would call him that. castro and guevara weren't terrorists either.

3. racist. so far the only person throwing the concept of race around on this thread is brian, surprise surprise. he has used it to brand mandela's detractors as racists. apparently, he also lumps me into that. even though i am neither a racist nor a mandela detractor.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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iwbiek wrote: communist,

iwbiek wrote:

 

communist, terrorist, racist--three terms i never used to describe mandela. 1. of course he was not a communist. anyone with even cursory knowledge of what "communism," i.e. marxism-leninism, is, and what mandela's political views and actions as SA's president were, knows mandela was not a "communist." 2. of course he was not a terrorist. only those who lump "guerilla" and "insurgent" in with "terrorist," i.e. those who are ignorant of what a terrorist actually is, would call him that. castro and guevara weren't terrorists either. 3. racist. so far the only person throwing the concept of race around on this thread is brian, surprise surprise. he has used it to brand mandela's detractors as racists. apparently, he also lumps me into that. even though i am neither a racist nor a mandela detractor.

I think the whole point of the original argument was that the icon that the American media has made him out to be is not correct and that was the whole contention of being "sick of that crap " about him. Had nothing really to do with the man himself or what he might have been.

Truth to be told, I have gotten to a point where I despise any icons of any types.

Orwell was an asshole homophobic British Nationalist that loved to paint the picture of being some sort of lone dissenter against tyranny and had the nerve to whine about hating the Burmese for forcing him to shoot an elephant.

But Orwell did write some good books as well.

The point being, is that there are no saints in history, there are no flawless icons, and the fact of the matter  is, if I like or admire anyone at all today, it is for the reason in which they are to be admired.

Sure Lovecraft was a fucked in the head neurotic and possible racist, but I like his horror stories and style of writing and do not give a flying fuck about his personal opinions nor his life.

William Faulkner was a liar and rightfully earned the nickname "count-no account" but I loved his stories and the depths of them.

My "heros" of both literature, politics, music, art and all else might have been complete and utter fuck ups in real life, just like me. They put their pants on one leg at a time, just like me.  But I admire the deeds that they have done and the work that they accomplished.

 

“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno


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harleysportster wrote:I

harleysportster wrote:
I think the whole point of the original argument was that the icon that the American media has made him out to be is not correct and that was the whole contention of being "sick of that crap " about him. Had nothing really to do with the man himself or what he might have been.

precisely, and i think it was obvious, because only brian has managed to misconstrue it so terribly, and he continues to misconstrue it. and it's obviously intentional. why?

because my real argument is fairly reasonable and while it might be open to some low-key argument, it certainly isn't open to histrionics, which is all brian knows. and if brian can't throw a bitch-fit about something one of his chosen enemies says, he'll fucking make something up. notice how in the last couple of days i automatically get mentioned alongside beyond in many of his replies.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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iwbiek wrote:communist,

iwbiek wrote:
communist, terrorist, racist--three terms i never used to describe mandela. 1. of course he was not a communist. anyone with even cursory knowledge of what "communism," i.e. marxism-leninism, is, and what mandela's political views and actions as SA's president were, knows mandela was not a "communist." 2. of course he was not a terrorist. only those who lump "guerilla" and "insurgent" in with "terrorist," i.e. those who are ignorant of what a terrorist actually is, would call him that. castro and guevara weren't terrorists either. 3. racist. so far the only person throwing the concept of race around on this thread is brian, surprise surprise. he has used it to brand mandela's detractors as racists. apparently, he also lumps me into that. even though i am neither a racist nor a mandela detractor.

I wasn't getting involved in your "discussion" with Brian. I found that article and thought I'd share.


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digitalbeachbum wrote:iwbiek

digitalbeachbum wrote:

iwbiek wrote:
communist, terrorist, racist--three terms i never used to describe mandela. 1. of course he was not a communist. anyone with even cursory knowledge of what "communism," i.e. marxism-leninism, is, and what mandela's political views and actions as SA's president were, knows mandela was not a "communist." 2. of course he was not a terrorist. only those who lump "guerilla" and "insurgent" in with "terrorist," i.e. those who are ignorant of what a terrorist actually is, would call him that. castro and guevara weren't terrorists either. 3. racist. so far the only person throwing the concept of race around on this thread is brian, surprise surprise. he has used it to brand mandela's detractors as racists. apparently, he also lumps me into that. even though i am neither a racist nor a mandela detractor.

I wasn't getting involved in your "discussion" with Brian. I found that article and thought I'd share.

i know you weren't, i just figured i'd jump on it before he did.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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Beyond Saving wrote:Brian37

Beyond Saving wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

Said the guy with the communist red flag.

What is your sudden problem with communism and Marxism? You sound like an ignorant republican pulling the red card.

My "sudden problem"? Bullshit! I'm 47 years old and I have always had a problem with any form of fascism.

I have a problem with "philosophy" in general. Biological life and humans are diverse. I do not have a problem with the idea of supporting labor. I will always have a problem with genocidal maniacs and Stalin took the ideas of good intent and created his own political monopoly. Marx and Lenin suffered from the same bullshit Ayn Rand suffered from. "One size fits all".

Fuck you, Stalin's Russia was not a paradise for dissent. Go live in Cuba or Iran if you think fascism is a good way to be humane to humans.

An economy is no different than the ecology of an ecosystem. Ecosystems are always diverse and cannot be monopolized by one species. If the balance gets upset the entire system can collapse.

For someone who masturbates over the private sector you sure sound fucking stupid yourself.  There is a huge difference between "good intent" and the pragmatism of reality.

I am neither for or against either the public or private sector. I am for BALANCE, and right now the top doesn't give a shit about the imbalance they are causing, just like Stalin didn't give a shit about the political monopoly he created.

You've read the Constitution and that is hardly a fascist document. It is however an anti trust anti monopoly concept, something you'd like to think should not apply to the private sector. You still fail to see that ALL institutions public and private are subject to abuse and monopolies of power. That is not a communist idea and you fucking know it!

And while you idiots bitched about Mandela "getting chummy" with Castro, would you like me to post pictures of Regan shaking hands with dictators, how about McCain with Castro, or Gaddaffi?

 

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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Brian37 wrote:Bullshit! I'm

Brian37 wrote:
Bullshit! I'm 47 years old and I have always had a problem with any form of fascism.



goddamn, you're such a stupid, ignorant, fucking moron prick. you have no fucking clue what "fascism" is. hint, dickwad: it ain't a synonym for "dictatorship." on the political spectrum, fascism is the polar fucking opposite of communism.


why do you always use words you don't know the fucking meaning of?


Brian37 wrote:
I have a problem with "philosophy" in general.



oh, really? do tell. if your knowledge of philosophy is as vast as your knowledge of politics and religion, this should be real fuckin' good. so now hegel gets lumped in with stalin? max weber too? what about wittgenstein? is he the new "fascist"?


Brian37 wrote:
Marx and Lenin suffered from the same bullshit Ayn Rand suffered from. "One size fits all".



well, since you've obviously read nothing either by or about marx and lenin, except a quick wikipedia browse (and i'm sure the same is true of ayn rand), your judgment carries exactly dick amount of weight.


actually, brian, with all your cavalier lumping together of wildly disparate ideologies and historical figures--ayn rand gets thrown in with stalin, communism with fascism, vishnu with allah--you are precisely the person taking a "one size fits all" approach.


Brian37 wrote:
Go live in Cuba or Iran if you think fascism is a good way to be humane to humans.



yeah, cuz you know all about cuba and iran, don't you? hint: cuba ain't fascist, dumbass.


Brian37 wrote:
An economy is no different than the ecology of an ecosystem.



woooow, as if we needed further proof we're dealing with a retard...


Brian37 wrote:
And while you idiots bitched about Mandela "getting chummy" with Castro, would you like me to post pictures of Regan shaking hands with dictators, how about McCain with Castro, or Gaddaffi?



NOBODY FUCKING "BITCHED" ABOUT IT, BRIAN, WE JUST FUCKING POINTED IT OUT! you are such a fucking deliberate liar!


as for the pictures you threaten to post, who the fuck gives a shit? nobody here has idealized reagan or gaddafi anymore than mandela. of course politicians everywhere hobnob with dictators! good fucking morning!

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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Brian37 wrote:My "sudden

Brian37 wrote:

My "sudden problem"? Bullshit! I'm 47 years old and I have always had a problem with any form of fascism.

Really? How is communism fascist in any way? Are you aware that the fascists followed an economic plan exactly as you suggest that blended privately owned business with government owned? They called it the "Third Position" and attempted to be neither marxist nor capitalist. Your views, in so far as anything coherent can be extracted, are much closer to what the fascists did than iwbieks.

 

Brian37 wrote:

I have a problem with "philosophy" in general.

Communism isn't philosophy.

 

Brian37 wrote:

Biological life and humans are diverse.

Nor is it biology.

 

Brian37 wrote:

I do not have a problem with the idea of supporting labor.

Nor is it necessarily about supporting labor.

 

Brian37 wrote:

I will always have a problem with genocidal maniacs and Stalin took the ideas of good intent and created his own political monopoly.

Nor does it have anything to do with genocide.

 

Brian37 wrote:

Marx and Lenin suffered from the same bullshit Ayn Rand suffered from. "One size fits all".

Lol. The irony.

 

Brian37 wrote:

Fuck you, Stalin's Russia was not a paradise for dissent.

I never said it was. Nor am I aware of anyone suggesting that Stalin's Russia should be mimicked. If you bothered to pick up a history book, you would know that one of the first things Stalin did was completely overhaul the economic policies put in place by Lenin. The two were not in lockstep.

 

Brian37 wrote:

Go live in Cuba or Iran if you think fascism is a good way to be humane to humans.

Define "fascism".

 

Brian37 wrote:

An economy is no different than the ecology of an ecosystem.

Of course they are different. That is like saying an elephant isn't different from a grain of salt because they both have sodium.

 

Brian37 wrote:

Ecosystems are always diverse and cannot be monopolized by one species. If the balance gets upset the entire system can collapse.

Ecosystems are not always diverse and are often monopolized by one or two species. Nor has any ecosystem been known to collapse simply because the "balance" is upset. (ecosystems are rarely if ever balanced, they oscillate constantly) Ecosystem collapses occur due to catastrophic damage from external sources.

 

Brian37 wrote:

For someone who masturbates over the private sector you sure sound fucking stupid yourself.

I probably am fucking stupid compared to Marx. Fortunately I have you to make me look like a fucking genius.

 

Brian37 wrote:

There is a huge difference between "good intent" and the pragmatism of reality.

There is. Marx, Engels and Lenin were very pragmatic. If you read their writings you would know that. Lenin in particular was widely criticized during his rule by idealists for compromising ideals too much with his "New Economic Policy". From what I have seen when iwbiek comments on specific issues, he is very pragmatic as well. A person can have an ideal in mind but still be pragmatic about getting close to the ideal. On the other hand, you routinely avoid talking about specific situations and focus on the CLIMATE. That is not very pragmatic of you.

 

 

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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It's official. Brian37 is

It's official. Brian37 is the dumbest person on the site, past present and future.

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