When a hero is a traitor

Beyond Saving
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When a hero is a traitor

 http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-snowden-20130624,0,1088900.story?page=1&sc=2875186350857097532

Snowden has managed to evade US officials over the weekend and is now apparently headed to Ecuador of all places. I think it is complete bullshit that he is charged and I hope he manages to evade and can hopefully come back home sooner rather than later. After we ditch scumbag in chief, I hope whatever slime we get next should pardon him. Snowden is not a criminal. He is a patriot who knowingly put his well being on the line to tell us something that we should know. It is a complete outrage that our government is doing this kind of monitoring without ever having a public debate on the topic. Whether you support the monitoring or not, you should at least agree it is something that should be debated and voted on, not just implemented by dictocrats.

He didn't put anyone at risk, he didn't tip the terrorists off to something they didn't already know. Anyone with half a brain knows that if you are involved in that kind of criminal activity you get prepaid phones, use them for a limited time (often only one phone call) and then throw them away. Plus, being a terrorist you are always going to be wary that the government will be able to get a warrant on you. So the terrorists aren't going to do anything different now than before this news came out. The government was spying on us in direct contradiction to our laws and Constitution and now the person who pointed out they broke the law is being chased around the world.

We should hold our representatives to account and I hope that the American public has a long enough memory to throw the asses of the traitors calling for Snowden's arrest.

John Boehner, Erick Erickson, Saxby Chambliss, Eric Cantor, Lindsey Graham, Mike Rogers, Ron Johnson, Dianne Feinstein, Bob Menendez, Peter King, and Harry Reid should all be recalled or at the very least run out of office in the next election. Even for politicians they are slimy. This isn't an all inclusive list, just a list of those who have been more public than most in their calls to punish Snowden and attempts to defend the program.

I should also give a shout out to those who have stood up and spoken out against the program. Props to Jeff Merkley, Mark Udall, Ron & Rand Paul, Thomas Massie, Ted Cruz, Dennis Kucinich and Al Gore. They are all still slimy, but at least they have some sense that our rights shouldn't be trampled on by government on a whim.  

 

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


Vastet
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I fully agree. Sad when

I fully agree. Sad when China of all places shows up the US on human rights. And maybe Russia too, but the juries still out on that one. The guy is a national treasure. The founding fathers would have honoured him.

The US is now the land of the oppressive and oppressed. I'd literally go to China before I'd ever set foot on US soil at this point.

Fucking idiots in the government even have the nerve to suggest his choices in seeking refuge demonstrate he's a traitor, when the FACT is that if he'd stepped foot in ANY so-called 'free' country he'd have been picked up and sent home in seconds, no questions asked.

My respect for China, Russia, Ecuador, Cuba, and other nation's has skyrocketted with this mess. The US is officially the worst country in the world. Even North Korea is better.

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Brian37
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Quote:After we ditch scumbag

Quote:
After we ditch scumbag in chief,

Oh you mean the guy who simply used what was set up by the prior administration?

 

YOU ARE OUT OF YOUR FUCKING MIND.

 

If you are going to go that route the dear old Abe should be on your hit list too for suspending Habus Corpus, and you should have the entire government during WW2 on your hit list too for interning Japanese Citizens.

 

If you were to go through every de classified government security data in our history, especially since wire taps, you'd find lots of shit to be paranoid about.

 

I actually agreed with what he did, BUT NOT the way he did it. And you are stuck in short term thinking as well. It has never been the case that a new president scraps everything a prior president does. Bush certainly used whatever Clinton gave him, and Clinton used whatever Bush Sr left him and so on and so on.

 

It IS good to keep an eye on government. It is not good to not know what you are doing, and this guy did not.

 

Fuck your conspiracy crap. If you think Obama sucks, that is one thing. But our government is based on the PEACEFUL transfer of power. You don't have to like Obama anymore than I liked Bush. But to single out one person in a government run by hundreds in Congress alone, with a Supreme Court, and multiple law enforcement agencies such as the CIA, FBI, HOMELAND SECURITY, consisting of hundreds of thousand of personal, is patently absurd.

 

You are seriously one step away from a tin foil hat.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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You're a fucking idiot. Just

You're a fucking idiot. Just because he didn't make the law doesn't mean he is then granted immunity when he uses it.

*Edited for clarity

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Vastet
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Furthermore, exactly what

Furthermore, exactly what was Snowden to do hmm? If he'd gone to ANY local media his story might not have even become public, and he'd be locked away in a military prison right now.

Your incapabilty to see the evil in every level of both parties in the US shows you're the one wearing a tin foil hat. And blinders too, sticking your fingers in your ears yelling like a 6 year old so you don't have to be confronted by the truth. Just as bad as any fundamentalist nut case.

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SNOWDEN IS A TRUE AMERICAN

SNOWDEN IS A TRUE AMERICAN PATRIOT AN HERO!!!!


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Brian37 wrote:Quote:After we

Brian37 wrote:

Quote:
After we ditch scumbag in chief,

Oh you mean the guy who simply used what was set up by the prior administration?

 

Well since Bush and Cheney are already out of office, it doesn't do much good to get rid of them again. If scumbag had any integrity at all he would have made the program public and shut it down immediately, then sought a Supreme Court decision ruling the program unconstitutional. As a candidate, he spoke out against the (un)Patriot Act, then as President he not only supported it but also kept this and most likely other unconstitutional programs we haven't heard of running when he had absolute power to end them at any time. 

 

Brian37 wrote:

YOU ARE OUT OF YOUR FUCKING MIND.

See Vastet's post above.

 

Brian37 wrote:
 

If you are going to go that route the dear old Abe should be on your hit list too for suspending Habus Corpus, and you should have the entire government during WW2 on your hit list too for interning Japanese Citizens.

 

If I had been alive back then, they would have been. The interning of Japanese citizens was a terrible crime committed by our government on par with legalized slavery. Everyone involved in that decision and who defended that decision deserved to be thrown out of office and it is absolutely disgusting that so many think of FDR as a heroic historical figure. It is a tragedy that so many Americans were motivated by fear and so many innocent people suffered for it. It is something that we should all recognize as a huge mistake and seek to never do again. Yet here we are, being motivated by the same fear and infringing on the rights of innocent people. 

 

Brian37 wrote:

If you were to go through every de classified government security data in our history, especially since wire taps, you'd find lots of shit to be paranoid about.

 

No doubt. There is a lot that government does that is immoral and unconstitutional. That is why we should demand transparency and throw scumbags out of office as we find them. 

 

Brian37 wrote:

I actually agreed with what he did, BUT NOT the way he did it. And you are stuck in short term thinking as well.

How was he supposed to do it?

 

Brian37 wrote:

It has never been the case that a new president scraps everything a prior president does. Bush certainly used whatever Clinton gave him, and Clinton used whatever Bush Sr left him and so on and so on.

 

I never said he should scrap everything. He should scrap everything that is unconstitutional. And yeah, Bama is not the only guilty person around. I listed several of the guilty people who knew this was going on and said nothing. 

 

Brian37 wrote:

It IS good to keep an eye on government. It is not good to not know what you are doing, and this guy did not.

???????

 

Brian37 wrote:
 

Fuck your conspiracy crap. If you think Obama sucks, that is one thing. But our government is based on the PEACEFUL transfer of power. You don't have to like Obama anymore than I liked Bush. But to single out one person in a government run by hundreds in Congress alone, with a Supreme Court, and multiple law enforcement agencies such as the CIA, FBI, HOMELAND SECURITY, consisting of hundreds of thousand of personal, is patently absurd.

 

You are seriously one step away from a tin foil hat.

What conspiracy? The government has completely admitted to all of this. Snowden wasn't making shit up. I didn't single out one person. I made a list of those politicians who are publicly supporting the program and seeking to arrest Snowden. It is not an all inclusive list, just those who are the most prominent. Feel free to add your own names. And if you don't know where your local politicians stand, find out. All of my representatives here are on the scumbag side, and every single one should be thrown out. I am hardly on a witch hunt for the scumbag in chief, he is one of many that should be thrown out of office. If you notice, my list includes many prominent republicans. And my shout out list includes many prominent democrats.

This is hardly a party issue. I am on the same side as Al Gore?!?! and Dennis Kucinich?!?! Me and Dennis are so far away politically that we met on the other side of the circle. Although, I have to say that while I don't agree with him on anything politically, I did have the opportunity to have an in depth ideological conversation with Kucinich at a dinner several years ago and he is a very intelligent and principled man. Less slimy than your typical politician. He actually has thought behind his political views, which is more than I can say for most.    

 

Edit: Your post doesn't even make sense. I barely mentioned Obama except to say that after the scumbag is replaced Snowden should get a full pardon. You do know that he can't run for office again? Which is why I did not include him on my list of people to be thrown out. Most of the people on that list are people who were in office throughout both Bush and Obama administrations- and many even longer. The divide seems to have more to do with the long term Washington Dc'ers and the people recently elected than party line. 

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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I'm unsure of what else to

I'm unsure of what else to say, but...this whole situation just really pisses me off. 

 


harleysportster
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Vastet wrote:I fully agree.

Vastet wrote:
I fully agree. Sad when China of all places shows up the US on human rights. And maybe Russia too, but the juries still out on that one. The guy is a national treasure. The founding fathers would have honoured him. The US is now the land of the oppressive and oppressed. I'd literally go to China before I'd ever set foot on US soil at this point. Fucking idiots in the government even have the nerve to suggest his choices in seeking refuge demonstrate he's a traitor, when the FACT is that if he'd stepped foot in ANY so-called 'free' country he'd have been picked up and sent home in seconds, no questions asked. My respect for China, Russia, Ecuador, Cuba, and other nation's has skyrocketted with this mess. The US is officially the worst country in the world. Even North Korea is better.

I agree with you 100% on that one. My country is currently an embarassment after all of this.

“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno


iwbiek
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i voted for Obama, not

i voted for Obama, not because I swallowed all the hope and change bullshit but because I didn't want a fucking Mormon republican in office.  that being said, he is just as criminally active in this shit as bush ever was.  he's a criminal, unqualifiedly, and should face prosecution.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


harleysportster
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iwbiek wrote:i voted for

iwbiek wrote:

i voted for Obama, not because I swallowed all the hope and change bullshit but because I didn't want a fucking Mormon republican in office.  that being said, he is just as criminally active in this shit as bush ever was.  he's a criminal, unqualifiedly, and should face prosecution.

I totally agree.

“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno


iwbiek
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why is the son of a bitch

why is the son of a bitch silent is what I want to know?  he was one of the most vocal presidents in history when it came to his campaigns and his first term, and now suddenly he's a fucking recluse like bush in his last two years.  come on, Obama, you were all loud and proud about your bullshit ideals before, now the world is crying out for answers and our chief executive, who's supposed to be the face of our national policy (not to mention the protector of our constitution, hardy-har-fuckin'-har), can't be bothered with it.

speak, mr. president, you fucking coward!  if what this man did deserves hounding him across the globe and blatantly flouting the majority of world opinion (sorta like the Iraq war did), tell us WHY.  don't send Hillary or Kerry or Pelosi or any of your other fucking lapdogs in congress to do it--we elected you, you piece of shit, and we want answers from YOU.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson