US and UK admit to seeking and keeping records on citizens without warrant or justification

Vastet
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US and UK admit to seeking and keeping records on citizens without warrant or justification

I'm not going to bother with links because this is being covered everywhere.
About 7 years ago, under Bush, the US government started keeping all data they could get their slimy hands on from every single Verizon user. Couple that with Google, Microsoft, and other organisations reporting the same on internet activities over the last few months.
Bush started this, but Obama never shut it down, making him equally complicit in the violation of your rights and freedoms as guaranteed via charter and constitution.
It has come to light that the UK government has had access to this data and also collects it.
You no longer have any right to privacy in the US or the UK.
How many other companies have given all their data to these governments? And how many other governments have participated in this illegal and immoral scheme? And how the FUCK is there not already a class action lawsuit against the government and both parties in the US, with every single American citizen demanding the immediate resignation of the govt?

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"And how the FUCK is there

"And how the FUCK is there not already a class action lawsuit against the government and both parties in the US, with every single American citizen demanding the immediate resignation of the govt?"

Because people care more about feeling safe and secure than they do about protecting their rights.


Beyond Saving
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RatDog wrote:"And how the

RatDog wrote:

"And how the FUCK is there not already a class action lawsuit against the government and both parties in the US, with every single American citizen demanding the immediate resignation of the govt?"

Because people care more about feeling safe and secure than they do about protecting their rights.

Sad but true. Beyond the whole Verizon thing there have been numerous stories about the government seeking records from Google and doing wide scale monitoring. Unfortunately, most Americans don't seem to care. Those of us who suggest that people in the government should be impeached and possibly imprisoned are accused of calling for such things for purely political reasons while those who share political sympathies with the current powers that be will close ranks and defend the assholes no matter what. 

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


Cpt_pineapple
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Looks like our first atheist

Looks like our first atheist president keeps missing the mark


Vastet
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Cpt_pineapple wrote:Looks

Cpt_pineapple wrote:

Looks like our first atheist president keeps missing the mark

Every branch of government was involved in this. Neither Bush nor Obama get more than 30% of the credit, combined.

This is the kind of thing that justifies revolution, and killing everyone involved in the illegal activity. And I don't give a fuck that some desk jockey in the NSA is certain to read this and be able to figure out who I am. I'd shout it loud and clear in a court of law. The government is demonstrably criminal and needs to be recalled. By any means necessary.

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Vastet wrote:This is the

Vastet wrote:
This is the kind of thing that justifies revolution, and killing everyone involved in the illegal activity. And I don't give a fuck that some desk jockey in the NSA is certain to read this and be able to figure out who I am. I'd shout it loud and clear in a court of law. The government is demonstrably criminal and needs to be recalled. By any means necessary.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


RatDog
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Beyond Saving wrote:Sad but

Beyond Saving wrote:

Sad but true. Beyond the whole Verizon thing there have been numerous stories about the government seeking records from Google and doing wide scale monitoring. Unfortunately, most Americans don't seem to care. Those of us who suggest that people in the government should be impeached and possibly imprisoned are accused of calling for such things for purely political reasons while those who share political sympathies with the current powers that be will close ranks and defend the assholes no matter what. 

I wonder if people would have had the same reaction to this 10 years ago or 20 years.  Maybe we are like a frog in slowly heating water, and because we are getting used to it we don't know when to jump out.

At any rate it seem no one wants to go against their political affiliations which means nothing could be done even if people were more outraged.  Neither party is going to give up the power.  They'll just keep tossing the blame back and forth between them like a hot potato.  

If we weren't stuck in a two party system maybe the voters would have some options, but people have let their fear and apathy rob them of their power of choice.   Sentiments like "voting for a third party is just throwing away your vote" and "If you vote for a third party then that other evil party will gain power." bind us to the current system.  In a way I suppose we are getting what we deserve for our own weakness.   

I'm going to keep voting third party.  Not because I think I'll really be making much of a difference with my one little vote, but because as a lone powerless individual it is the only form of protest I'm really capable of. 

 


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Vastet wrote:Cpt_pineapple

Vastet wrote:
Cpt_pineapple wrote:

Looks like our first atheist president keeps missing the mark

Every branch of government was involved in this. Neither Bush nor Obama get more than 30% of the credit, combined. This is the kind of thing that justifies revolution, and killing everyone involved in the illegal activity. And I don't give a fuck that some desk jockey in the NSA is certain to read this and be able to figure out who I am. I'd shout it loud and clear in a court of law. The government is demonstrably criminal and needs to be recalled. By any means necessary.

You likely are not a threat beyond mere words on a messageboard, so why would they care?

Also, what's with the high-horsed, self-righteous indignation? You aren't amongst those directly effected by this.

“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)


Vastet
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Trolling as all you can do

Trolling is all you can ever do eh? If the UK and US are keeping records on everyone, Canada is too. Crawl back under your bridge shit-for-brains.

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Kapkao
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RatDog wrote:I wonder if

RatDog wrote:
I wonder if people would have had the same reaction to this 10 years ago or 20 years.  Maybe we are like a frog in slowly heating water, and because we are getting used to it we don't know when to jump out.

I think the problem is that many of those outraged and/or cynical about see little choice but to accept the current affairs of state. I think your last sentence...

Quote:
Not because I think I'll really be making much of a difference with my one little vote, but because as a lone powerless individual it is the only form of protest I'm really capable of.

...describes the position of nearly everyone else who is burnt out on civil policy.

“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)


Kapkao
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Vastet wrote:Trolling is all

Vastet wrote:
Trolling is all you can ever do eh? If the UK and US are keeping records on everyone, Canada is too. Crawl back under your bridge shit-for-brains.

If accusations of trolling is all you do then you have nothing. Feeling's mutual, ol sport.

“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)


Vastet
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Kapkao wrote:Vastet

Kapkao wrote:

Vastet wrote:
Trolling is all you can ever do eh? If the UK and US are keeping records on everyone, Canada is too. Crawl back under your bridge shit-for-brains.

If accusations of trolling is all you do then you have nothing. Feeling's mutual, ol sport.

When I want your opinion I'll give it to you, scum.

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My response to Snowden tends to this

 

“The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.” 4th Amendment

The debate centres around this: 'The right of people to be secure...in their papers and effects...shall not be violated' as well as what might be considered 'unreasonable searches' in 2013. 

If we take the first phrase literally, then Snowden is right and government is in breach of the constitution. Personally, I think we need a vigorous and wide ranging debate on this topic, a debate that can be undertaken without fear of censure.

We need to ensure that western nations under pressure from a handful of terrorists aren't creating a form of government which we all generally abhor. 

At the same time, it would be foolish to ignore the fact that sieved data records have stymied multiple terror attacks - not just in the US and Europe, but here in Australia, too. It's the lack of acceptable public debate that's the worrying thing.  

 

 

 

 

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