@theists: are you trying to change us or understand us?

digitalbeachbum
atheistRational VIP!
digitalbeachbum's picture
Posts: 3064
Joined: 2007-10-15
User is offlineOffline
@theists: are you trying to change us or understand us?

Before I ask my question to the theists I will admit that I've done similar things when visiting a theist website, but with a very specific agenda. I was very curious at how some types of theists thought so I would log in and watch their posts.

As for my question to the theists, what exactly are you doing here? Are you trying to convert us? test us? test yourself? or maybe you are unsure of your belief system and are searching for other possibilities?

@atheists, feel free to post if you have an opinion.

 

Free will is an illusion. People always choose the perceived path of greatest pleasure.

-Scott Adams


x
Bronze Member
Posts: 591
Joined: 2010-06-15
User is offlineOffline
Not currently

Old Seer wrote:
What one believes is also ones religion. Religion is that which one is ruled by as religion and belief are the same.  

That just isn't what a religion is defined as.

You are making up your own definitions.

Maybe in time the word religion will come to mean 'what one believes in', but it doesn't now.

If it does ever get that meaning, tax breaks here we come!


A_Nony_Mouse
A_Nony_Mouse's picture
Posts: 2880
Joined: 2008-04-23
User is offlineOffline
.

Old Seer wrote:
one that is of the civilized mind does not understand the Christian mind.
 

Are you not trying to read a whole lot into what little illiterate, backwater Galileans could possibly have conceived?

 

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


A_Nony_Mouse
A_Nony_Mouse's picture
Posts: 2880
Joined: 2008-04-23
User is offlineOffline
.

Old Seer wrote:

or belongs to one kind/type or another.

Quote:

Mere assertion does not make fact.

What one believes is also ones religion. Religion is that which one is ruled by as religion and belief are the same. Civilization is a religion of belief in the superiority of a few over the many. Religion is the rules one follows. If one believes in those that make the rules then they are God, as God is that which rules the person. God and force are one and the same. God is the forces one is under and surrounded by. Everyone exists within these forces. Government "is" force. One can be governed by their own inner forces or you can choose external forces-or you can be of either. There are always external forces that one is under. Christianity is an understanding of the "forces" and comprehending the affects of those forces upon the self and others. Force on it's own has no intelligence, but force can be a product of intelligence. There-fore then---God has no intelligence and can only exist within the framework of own own as "we" are the ones that are the intelligent, and from ones intelligence force upon others can be reasoned to- on how one can have an affect others. It's isn't the material and physical forces that Christianity is about. Christianity is about ones forces upon others and understanding the consequences of applying force on others. In total, It is about the inner forces of ones self and social forces that are inherent within, and of, a society and it's values.

   There are only two concepts by which relations are base upon. They are- human characteristics and animal characteristics. It is impossible for there to be any other as only two kinds of "being" exist within the universe, That is "human", which means being human toward each other. The other is animal being, which is being animalistic toward each other. These two sets of characteristics are of ones  given automatically by nature and not by authority of any person, one is naturally mentally formed with them. These two concepts are what make up one's "person". No one can get out of it---that's it---no place else tp go. ONE of these concepts is "Christianity/Adam". From the knowing of these two you can now make a choice to be a person "you" elect to be. At this time you are a product of the "State", civilized for the purposes of the "State". Civilization exists and functions on the "animal" entity, it's traits and characteristics. (IE- competition is an animal trait). You went to school (by force of the "State&quotEye-wink to be made into what they say you should be. You are going to have a tuff time believing that you are made by the State, but, you are, and the only way out of it is to become a -----Proper Christian, that exists (or tries to at this time) soley on the Human" characteristics. There's nothing wrong with "being" human, and nothing wrong with "being" animal (the only two states of mind that exist). What you have to decide is---what consequences you wish to undergo by "being" one or or the other. The consequences are what you see in the world today. The State promotes the animal, focres it's direction, then regulates how much  of an animal it will allow one to be. Laws are just cages

Your personage is now up to you. There is no such thing as a "human animal". at any given instant you are one or the other. Everything you do is to facilitate one side or the other. In one instance you're human, in the next you can be animal. Your choice now is---which of these do you want to serve, and which do you want to serve you.

Nor does stringing words together without regard to their established definitions.

I really have never understood what people find attractive in spouting gibberish.

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


Old Seer
Theist
Posts: 769
Joined: 2011-11-12
User is offlineOffline
It's up to you

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

Old Seer wrote:

or belongs to one kind/type or another.

Quote:

Mere assertion does not make fact.

What one believes is also ones religion. Religion is that which one is ruled by as religion and belief are the same. Civilization is a religion of belief in the superiority of a few over the many. Religion is the rules one follows. If one believes in those that make the rules then they are God, as God is that which rules the person. God and force are one and the same. God is the forces one is under and surrounded by. Everyone exists within these forces. Government "is" force. One can be governed by their own inner forces or you can choose external forces-or you can be of either. There are always external forces that one is under. Christianity is an understanding of the "forces" and comprehending the affects of those forces upon the self and others. Force on it's own has no intelligence, but force can be a product of intelligence. There-fore then---God has no intelligence and can only exist within the framework of own own as "we" are the ones that are the intelligent, and from ones intelligence force upon others can be reasoned to- on how one can have an affect others. It's isn't the material and physical forces that Christianity is about. Christianity is about ones forces upon others and understanding the consequences of applying force on others. In total, It is about the inner forces of ones self and social forces that are inherent within, and of, a society and it's values.

   There are only two concepts by which relations are base upon. They are- human characteristics and animal characteristics. It is impossible for there to be any other as only two kinds of "being" exist within the universe, That is "human", which means being human toward each other. The other is animal being, which is being animalistic toward each other. These two sets of characteristics are of ones  given automatically by nature and not by authority of any person, one is naturally mentally formed with them. These two concepts are what make up one's "person". No one can get out of it---that's it---no place else tp go. ONE of these concepts is "Christianity/Adam". From the knowing of these two you can now make a choice to be a person "you" elect to be. At this time you are a product of the "State", civilized for the purposes of the "State". Civilization exists and functions on the "animal" entity, it's traits and characteristics. (IE- competition is an animal trait). You went to school (by force of the "State&quotEye-wink to be made into what they say you should be. You are going to have a tuff time believing that you are made by the State, but, you are, and the only way out of it is to become a -----Proper Christian, that exists (or tries to at this time) solely on the Human" characteristics. There's nothing wrong with "being" human, and nothing wrong with "being" animal (the only two states of mind that exist). What you have to decide is---what consequences you wish to undergo by "being" one or or the other. The consequences are what you see in the world today. The State promotes the animal, focres it's direction, then regulates how much  of an animal it will allow one to be. Laws are just cages

Your personage is now up to you. There is no such thing as a "human animal". at any given instant you are one or the other. Everything you do is to facilitate one side or the other. In one instance you're human, in the next you can be animal. Your choice now is---which of these do you want to serve, and which do you want to serve you.

Nor does stringing words together without regard to their established definitions.

I really have never understood what people find attractive in spouting gibberish.

to comprehend it or leave it be. You have to work on it.  

 

The only possible thing the world needs saving from are those running it.


Old Seer
Theist
Posts: 769
Joined: 2011-11-12
User is offlineOffline
No assertions

Old Seer wrote:

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

Old Seer wrote:

or belongs to one kind/type or another.

Quote:

Mere assertion does not make fact.

What one believes is also ones religion. Religion is that which one is ruled by as religion and belief are the same. Civilization is a religion of belief in the superiority of a few over the many. Religion is the rules one follows. If one believes in those that make the rules then they are God, as God is that which rules the person. God and force are one and the same. God is the forces one is under and surrounded by. Everyone exists within these forces. Government "is" force. One can be governed by their own inner forces or you can choose external forces-or you can be of either. There are always external forces that one is under. Christianity is an understanding of the "forces" and comprehending the affects of those forces upon the self and others. Force on it's own has no intelligence, but force can be a product of intelligence. There-fore then---God has no intelligence and can only exist within the framework of own own as "we" are the ones that are the intelligent, and from ones intelligence force upon others can be reasoned to- on how one can have an affect others. It's isn't the material and physical forces that Christianity is about. Christianity is about ones forces upon others and understanding the consequences of applying force on others. In total, It is about the inner forces of ones self and social forces that are inherent within, and of, a society and it's values.

   There are only two concepts by which relations are base upon. They are- human characteristics and animal characteristics. It is impossible for there to be any other as only two kinds of "being" exist within the universe, That is "human", which means being human toward each other. The other is animal being, which is being animalistic toward each other. These two sets of characteristics are of ones  given automatically by nature and not by authority of any person, one is naturally mentally formed with them. These two concepts are what make up one's "person". No one can get out of it---that's it---no place else to go. ONE of these concepts is "Christianity/Adam". From the knowing of these two you can now make a choice to be a person "you" elect to be. At this time you are a product of the "State", civilized for the purposes of the "State". Civilization exists and functions on the "animal" entity, it's traits and characteristics. (IE- competition is an animal trait). You went to school (by force of the "State&quotEye-wink to be made into what they say you should be. You are going to have a tuff time believing that you are made by the State, but, you are, and the only way out of it is to become a -----Proper Christian, that exists (or tries to at this time) solely on the Human" characteristics. There's nothing wrong with "being" human, and nothing wrong with "being" animal (the only two states of mind that exist). What you have to decide is---what consequences you wish to undergo by "being" one or or the other. The consequences are what you see in the world today. The State promotes the animal, forces it's direction, then regulates how much  of an animal it will allow one to be. Laws are just cages

Your personage is now up to you. There is no such thing as a "human animal". at any given instant you are one or the other. Everything you do is to facilitate one side or the other. In one instance you're human, in the next you can be animal. Your choice now is---which of these do you want to serve, and which do you want to serve you.

Nor does stringing words together without regard to their established definitions.

I really have never understood what people find attractive in spouting gibberish.

to comprehend it or leave it be. You have to work on it.  

 

The info is fact. You can't be a human animal. You are of both sets of characteristics. If one can consciously choose between the two then they are separate. If they are the same one cannot make the choice. If you care not to think about it then you remain the same as you are. One of these sets is Christianity, using both is the world you have- with emphasis on the animal. Knowing this you are now trapped to deal with the facts. If it's not fact, you're not thinking. One of these solves the world's social problems, the other is the problem.

The only possible thing the world needs saving from are those running it.


danatemporary
danatemporary's picture
Posts: 1539
Joined: 2011-01-12
User is offlineOffline
Ruled by

+  Religions faiths dogma and beliefs are can be composed in a single framework.

    I have witnessed in others from the family sustain a big fall (morally). A dilema. If they refuse to turn back, pains to be ruled by something other is this what you mean ? Didnt you specify one is more animal like, if so, would that indicate what you believe ???  OS  said, What one believes is also ones religion. So, Ted Haggard belief or action speak to what he is "ruled by"? Or a generation earlier the Pentecostal's Jimmy Swaggart is belief or action speak to what he is "ruled by" ? Some of your statements led to the colorful exchange with one of the mods in the last five weeks. It was so heated I doubt you could have forgotten what. It further prompted some questions about what you were trying to communicate, Old Seer. Did these two come to a cross-roads do they serve to help to understand the phrase you use of being ruled by animal desires ?

 

Old Seer wrote:
  ..  is ruled by    ..  as religion and belief are the same. Civilization is a religion of belief in the superiority of a few over the many. Religion is the rules one follows. If one believes in those that make the rules then they are God, as God is that which rules the person. God and force are one and the same. God is the forces one is under and surrounded by. Everyone exists within these forces.

Old Seer wrote:
The animal drives in its' sociology are by application of police forces (external). [u]Christianity is the giving up of animal behavior.. JC said- What God (natural personal forces) has joined let no man put assunder. What we have the two [the external and internal] are joined by natural forces under Christianity.. He said--they are as Angles, that is- as in and of the spiritual forces (angels is a misinterpretation). And each one another and joined by their own inter-forces of the internal not of the external, civil forces being the external. There is no authority over one another in true Christianity.

 What are we taking about, who has given up the animal drives .. Life's tests are given to show what you are ruled by ?

 

:

 


Atheistextremist
atheistSilver Member
Atheistextremist's picture
Posts: 5099
Joined: 2009-09-17
User is onlineOnline
Boy

 

Old Seer wrote:

The info is fact. You can't be a human animal. You are of both sets of characteristics. If one can consciously choose between the two then they are separate. If they are the same one cannot make the choice. If you care not to think about it then you remain the same as you are. One of these sets is Christianity, using both is the world you have- with emphasis on the animal. Knowing this you are now trapped to deal with the facts. If it's not fact, you're not thinking. One of these solves the world's social problems, the other is the problem.

 

This assertion-go-round doesn't prove anything whatever. The biggest boundary in all living organisms is that which divides prokaryotes and eukaryotes. This arbitrary division of labels you are dishing up is based on claims that are unsupported by the known facts and unsupported empirically by you, Seer. From you it's nothing but assertions with a nice little fallacious appeal to consequences sitting like a cherry on top... 

"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck


danatemporary
danatemporary's picture
Posts: 1539
Joined: 2011-01-12
User is offlineOffline
Known by you Seeker .. clarify the appeal .. ..

Seekers wrote:
The info is fact. You can't be a human animal. You are of both sets of characteristics. If one can consciously choose between the two then they are separate.

 

   Seeker on Seeker, The two centers of being. Elsewhere Seeker said, "One's human side and one's animal side . . if you are superficial and .. (paraphrasing) 'more of the animal side'  you will not understand [the mysteries]". Dont leave Extreme unaddressed, please. Nice to hear your thoughts 

Now if you could explain your position while you are at it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


A_Nony_Mouse
A_Nony_Mouse's picture
Posts: 2880
Joined: 2008-04-23
User is offlineOffline
.

Old Seer wrote:

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

Old Seer wrote:

or belongs to one kind/type or another.

Quote:

Mere assertion does not make fact.

What one believes is also ones religion. Religion is that which one is ruled by as religion and belief are the same. Civilization is a religion of belief in the superiority of a few over the many. Religion is the rules one follows. ...

Nor does stringing words together without regard to their established definitions.

I really have never understood what people find attractive in spouting gibberish.

to comprehend it or leave it be. You have to work on it.

You are saying I must take on faith you are posting other than gibberish and then spend to the time to discover what part of it is not gibberish. Why would I do that?

 

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


A_Nony_Mouse
A_Nony_Mouse's picture
Posts: 2880
Joined: 2008-04-23
User is offlineOffline
.

Old Seer wrote:
The info is fact. You can't be a human animal. You are of both sets of characteristics. If one can consciously choose between the two then they are separate. If they are the same one cannot make the choice. If you care not to think about it then you remain the same as you are. One of these sets is Christianity, using both is the world you have- with emphasis on the animal. Knowing this you are now trapped to deal with the facts. If it's not fact, you're not thinking. One of these solves the world's social problems, the other is the problem.

More gibberish. You make assertions without foundation. If one cannot be a human animal does that make you an inhuman animal? 

Christianity has been around in Europe for some 2000 years and if that is what you mean by solving social problems then I must suggest two millenia of failure to do so is dispositive.

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml