Moon Spliting in Islam?

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Moon Spliting in Islam?

[NOTE: I am a new agnostic here. Please cut me some slack if I make any mistakes such as posting in the wrong forums. ]

 

Recently I discovered the Muslims believe their prophet, Muhhamed, split the moon in half as a miracle. I instantly thought I should debunk this, so I did some Googling around and found that it almost certainly never was split, that if it was split that we would all freeze to death, etc.

I came across this: http://www.islamic-life.com/forums/anti-islamic-refutations/nasa-moon-split-795

In it I discovered a post by a user who was Muslim that stated:

 

"In 2002 during the Islamic month of Ramadan on CNN, Americas number one news station, there was a panel composed of four people. 1) Jew 2) Christian 3) Muslim 4) NASA representative. On such month it was discovered by NASA that the MOON seemed as though it was two pieces and it was suggested that if it was so that man could have not done it but God Himself. The question was posed to all members if there was anything in their scripture to support the idea that the MOON could have been two pieces. No one but the Muslim was able to give an account on the matter. So, whoever does not accept the idea that The Moon was two pieces once does not accept CNN, NASA, or even GOD."

Deep down, I KNOW there must be a rational explanation to this.

I appreciate everyone's help in advance!


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iGetWood wrote:[NOTE: I am a

iGetWood wrote:

[NOTE: I am a new agnostic here. Please cut me some slack if I make any mistakes such as posting in the wrong forums. ]

 

Recently I discovered the Muslims believe their prophet, Muhhamed, split the moon in half as a miracle. I instantly thought I should debunk this, so I did some Googling around and found that it almost certainly never was split, that if it was split that we would all freeze to death, etc.

I came across this: http://www.islamic-life.com/forums/anti-islamic-refutations/nasa-moon-split-795

In it I discovered a post by a user who was Muslim that stated:

 

"In 2002 during the Islamic month of Ramadan on CNN, Americas number one news station, there was a panel composed of four people. 1) Jew 2) Christian 3) Muslim 4) NASA representative. On such month it was discovered by NASA that the MOON seemed as though it was two pieces and it was suggested that if it was so that man could have not done it but God Himself. The question was posed to all members if there was anything in their scripture to support the idea that the MOON could have been two pieces. No one but the Muslim was able to give an account on the matter. So, whoever does not accept the idea that The Moon was two pieces once does not accept CNN, NASA, or even GOD."

Deep down, I KNOW there must be a rational explanation to this.

I appreciate everyone's help in advance!

Cut you some slack? Did you think this was Mayberry? Did you think I was Andy and we were at the barber shop?

No no no, my job is to make you scream like a banshee. My job is to make you feel like a long tail cat in a room full of rocking chairs. My job is to make you feel like a Muslim at a Southern Baptist revival . My job is to record the NFL without their permission.  I also rip the tags off my mattress. I am a rebel, ok, a rebel without a clue, but who's counting?

In all seriousness, everyone here is an individual. You will find people who like the library and people who like the boxing ring. But none of us here literally are out for blood. So take all of us as individuals and separate you from your claims, and you should be fine.

But, we do require you barbecue at least one kitten and pillage one city.

 

 

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cj
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hi

I don't know exactly what they are talking about.  I can't find the video - maybe someone else will hunt for it.  What I saw are pictures of a canyon on the moon that is sort of straight.  It does not circumnavigate the moon.  It is not very deep from what I could tell.  All the videos I found had Arabic and English text. 

I'm guessing the NASA expert said, yes, there is a canyon.  I'm also guessing he may have also said something along the lines that some Muslims believe this is evidence of the splitting moon miracle.  I'd be way surprised if he said anything about it being definitive evidence for said miracle.

 

-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.

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All kidding aside. I do not

All kidding aside. I do not put any weight into any argument from a theist that attempts to use science. I don't care if it is a Muslim or Christian or Jewish argument,

The "moon splitting" is ONE of a few I have heard before.

I have also heard "mountains moving" quoting the Koran.

I have seen links to pictures of a Red Nebula linked to quotes from the Koran

I have even had Muslims argue quotes talking about "Congealed blood" quoting the Koran as Allah picking the sex of the baby.

Right now I am battling a Jew here and now on this forum. I like her as as person, but her "scientific" claims for why the Jewish god is the one true god drive me as batty as the Muslim arguments I quoted above.

I once spent 3 days with no sleep, line for line, debunking a post  on Infidel Guy's website debating a Christian and his bible quotes that proved science.

Even today there is an epic thread from a guy named Caposkia who claims his "metaphysics" science leads to the Christian god.

And even our former "pantheist" Captain Pineapple" has given up on her former position that the universe itself was a thinking being of some sort.

Others here will walk down the Yellow brick road with claims. Me, I don't mince words. I wont hate the person making the claim I find absurd, but I will hate the claim itself.

 

 

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Well first, there is no way

Well first, there is no way any body as large as the moon could split in two pieces.  The only way anything remotely like that could have occurred would have been if another large body crashed into it.  This would have resulted in massive meteorite strikes all over the Earth and probably would have wiped out most species on Earth.  Not to mention how it would destabilize the Moon's orbit, cause utter havoc with the oceanic tides, etc.

Also, something so large as to literally split the moon in half would have resulted in a molten surface of the moon for at least a couple hundred thousand years.  Since Muhammad was walking around less than two thousand years ago then this doesn't make any sense.

Now let's say that some Muslim responds, "All is possible in Allah." or some crap and he negated all of this.  That he just gently cracked the sucker in two and gently stuck them back together.  Yeah right.

If the moon had separated this would have been seen ALL OVER the entire Earth.  Does China have a record of this?  Anybody in Europe?   Anyone anywhere except in the Quran and related books from Islam?

Nope.

We have astronomical observations from China from several thousand years ago.  Yet they didn't feel like the moon breaking in half was worthy of any note?

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Astronomy in China has a very long history, with historians considering that "they [the Chinese] were the most persistent and accurate observers of celestial phenomena anywhere in the world before the Arabs." Star names later categorized in the twenty-eight mansions have been found on oracle bones unearthed at Anyang, dating back to the middle Shang Dynasty (Chinese Bronze Age), and the mansion (xiù:宿) system's nucleus seems to have taken shape by the time of the ruler Wu Ding (1339-1281 BC).

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Brian37 wrote:Right now I am

Brian37 wrote:
Right now I am battling a Jew here and now on this forum. I like her as as person, but her "scientific" claims for why the Jewish god is the one true god drive me as batty as the Muslim arguments I quoted above.

I've made no such "scientific" claims about G-d being G-d.  G-d's existence falls outside the domain of Science.  I've told you that before and I'll tell you that again.

"Obviously I'm convinced of the existence of G-d. I'm equally convinced that Atheists who've led good lives will be in Olam HaBa going "How the heck did I wind up in this place?!?" while Christians who've treated people like dirt will be in some other place asking the exact same question."


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Follow the yellow brick road...

FurryCatHerder wrote:

Brian37 wrote:
Right now I am battling a Jew here and now on this forum. I like her as as person, but her "scientific" claims for why the Jewish god is the one true god drive me as batty as the Muslim arguments I quoted above.

I've made no such "scientific" claims about G-d being G-d.  G-d's existence falls outside the domain of Science.  I've told you that before and I'll tell you that again.

Yep, squarely in the realm of fantasy.

 

LC >;-}>

Christianity: A disgusting middle eastern blood cult, based in human sacrifice, with sacraments of cannibalism and vampirism, whose highest icon is of a near naked man hanging in torment from a device of torture.


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Louis_Cypher

Louis_Cypher wrote:

FurryCatHerder wrote:

Brian37 wrote:
Right now I am battling a Jew here and now on this forum. I like her as as person, but her "scientific" claims for why the Jewish god is the one true god drive me as batty as the Muslim arguments I quoted above.

I've made no such "scientific" claims about G-d being G-d.  G-d's existence falls outside the domain of Science.  I've told you that before and I'll tell you that again.

Yep, squarely in the realm of fantasy.

LC >;-}>

A lot of things that aren't fantasy also aren't Science.

To me, "Metaphysics" is as real as "Physics".  One is Science, one isn't.

Hey -- where are you?  I passed through Cajun Country recently and thought of you.  And I didn't even think of strangling you or forcing you to eat a bagel.

"Obviously I'm convinced of the existence of G-d. I'm equally convinced that Atheists who've led good lives will be in Olam HaBa going "How the heck did I wind up in this place?!?" while Christians who've treated people like dirt will be in some other place asking the exact same question."


Brian37
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FurryCatHerder wrote:Brian37

FurryCatHerder wrote:

Brian37 wrote:
Right now I am battling a Jew here and now on this forum. I like her as as person, but her "scientific" claims for why the Jewish god is the one true god drive me as batty as the Muslim arguments I quoted above.

I've made no such "scientific" claims about G-d being G-d.  G-d's existence falls outside the domain of Science.  I've told you that before and I'll tell you that again.

If we are going to be married we cant fight in front of the kids.(Did I think that, or type it)

Ok, to the newbie OP poster, put your ear plugs on and pretend we have gone out to the car in the driveway and gotten into it to have our "discussion".

Ok Furry, the newbie has gone inside.(Rolls windows up, turns up stereo)

Now, bull and own eeeee.

You say that science has nothing to do with God but you keep bringing it up constantly.

FURRY, read Victor Stinger's New Atheism. It explains your dodge and it's fallacy quite aptly.

Now if you insist on fighting in front of the kids I am going to have to sue you for custody.

(Note to Brian37: I love it, and I know it)

 

 

 

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But, NASA says it looks as

But, NASA says it looks as if it was split into two pieces and could've only been done by a god. So what if it did split into two pieces?


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Quote:But, NASA says it

Quote:
But, NASA says it looks as if it was split into two pieces and could've only been done by a god. So what if it did split into two pieces?

 

Ehh, ok, either you mixed some findings up or you're misinformed; not sure which.  NASA has never been very accurate, especially with the moon missions, but they produce results when not hindered.  My confusion is when in the hell did they EVER mention a god splitting the moon in half?  That sounds like some whack-a-doo shit you'd hear from someone that was skitzophrenic, drank a bottle of Robitussin and took two tabs of acid.  

 

If the moon split, it would cause a lot of problems; tidal disruption for one thing.  There is still a lot of mystery surrounding the moon, but no supernatural causes are linked to it.  I'm sure it's a nice little fairy tale to tell your child or children about the "man in the moon" or any other wild imagination-based story, but what mankind should be worried about is reality and the reality is that the moon is slowly moving away from the Earth.  Been going on for a long time.  Theoretically, the moon wasn't always around.  If I remember right, there are like three major theories floating around as to how the moon got into our orbit, but because it isn't natural to be there, it is VERY SLOOOOOOOOWLY being pulled AWAY from our orbit until one day, it won't be there.  Not any time soon, mind you, but it'll happen; could be hundreds or thousands of years away.

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iGetWood wrote:But, NASA

iGetWood wrote:

But, NASA says it looks as if it was split into two pieces and could've only been done by a god. So what if it did split into two pieces?

But what you fail to realize is that what you wrote is a complete idiocy.  NASA makes no such claim, and neither does anyone that has successfully negotiated a grade four public school education.

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iGetWood wrote:But, NASA

iGetWood wrote:

But, NASA says it looks as if it was split into two pieces and could've only been done by a god. So what if it did split into two pieces?

This is not true.  This is a naked assertion without a shred of evidence to back it up.  I researched this claim for a couple hours this afternoon and I can not find a single source for this myth that NASA thinks the moon ever split in two.

And NASA would NEVER EVER say a god did anything.  That's so utterly ridiculous I can't believe you bought into it for a second.

The ONLY websites that make this claim are websites about Islam.  Sites like followislam.com, allahonetruegod.com, all websites that have names similar to those.

If anyone can point to NASA based online information stating this directly from one of their websites I would be grateful. 

It's a flat out lie.

A NASA based page does mention this:

Quote:
The dramatic passage in question appears in the medieval chronicles of Gervase of Canterbury.

About an hour after sunset on June 18, 1178 A.D., a band of five eyewitnesses watched as the upper horn of the bright, new crescent Moon "suddenly split in two. From the midpoint of this division a flaming torch sprang up, spewing out . . . fire, hot coals and sparks. . .The body of the moon, which was below writhed. . .throbbed like a wounded snake." The phenomenon recurred another dozen times or more, the witnesses reported.

A geologist suggested in 1976 that this account is consistent with the location and age of the 22-kilometer (14-mile) lunar crater Giordano Bruno, the youngest crater of its size or larger on the Moon.

Based on the size of the crater, it must have been a one-to-three kilometer wide (a half-mile to almost 2-mile wide) asteroid that blasted Giordano Bruno into the Moon's northeast limb. Such an impact on the Earth would be "civilization threatening" -- so it is important to know if such an event happened on the Moon less than a millennium ago, Withers noted.

Note that NASA is not saying the moon actually did split in two.  Also this happened well over 800 years after Mohammed's death.

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Sage_Override wrote:If the

Sage_Override wrote:

If the moon split, it would cause a lot of problems; tidal disruption for one thing.  There is still a lot of mystery surrounding the moon, but no supernatural causes are linked to it.  I'm sure it's a nice little fairy tale to tell your child or children about the "man in the moon" or any other wild imagination-based story, but what mankind should be worried about is reality and the reality is that the moon is slowly moving away from the Earth.  Been going on for a long time.  Theoretically, the moon wasn't always around.  If I remember right, there are like three major theories floating around as to how the moon got into our orbit, but because it isn't natural to be there, it is VERY SLOOOOOOOOWLY being pulled AWAY from our orbit until one day, it won't be there.  Not any time soon, mind you, but it'll happen; could be hundreds or thousands of years away.

 

Without getting too technical, it is moving away at 3.8 cm a year.  It would take it about 15 billion years to escape Earth's orbit fully.  In about another 5 billion years the sun will likely become a red giant and, from our best estimates, do away with both moon and earth.  Here's a good layman article on space.com regarding the whole thing:

http://www.space.com/3373-earth-moon-destined-disintegrate.html

Otherwise, for more information see wikipedia's moon article, very good info there Smiling

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Yeah, you're right about the

Yeah, you're right about the time it would take.  Good article, by the way.


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I thought I'd read something

I thought I'd read something similar on this site before. Check out this thread...

http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/the_rational_response_squad_radio_show/general_conversation_introductions_and_humor/8607

The general consensus then, as it is now, was that stories of the moon splitting in half are complete and utter bullshit. 

Ktulu (in response to a comment from Answers in Gene Simmons) gave the best explanation IMO:

Answers in Gene Simmons wrote:
OK, so you found a straight line on the moon. There are straight lines all over the moon running in every direction. There are also curvy lines and wiggly lines. Thing is that none of them run for more than a few hundred kilometers. So you certainly have not found god's great cosmic zipper or anything even close.

ktulu wrote:
Moon's circumference as found from answers.com is 10,921 Km.  What NASA calls 'rilles' are believed to have been ancient lava flows or surface cracks.  The most prominent one is 160 kms long.  Here's a good website on rilles http://www.rense.com/general71/p1.htm.

So 160 Kms is a little more then 1% of the moon's surface.  Let me put this in perspective.  Imagine the moon to be the size of a basketball.  Now take your pinky's nail and make an indent in the ball.  If your pinky is about .3 inches then that's roughly over 1% of the circumference of the ball's 28 inches.

 

 

 


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This was the result of

This was the result of fractures in the moon found in the early years of the century, which were later determined to be the result of the moon shrinking over billions of years as it cooled and travelled further from Earth. There is no evidence for a split moon.

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Vastet wrote:This was the

Vastet wrote:
This was the result of fractures in the moon found in the early years of the century, which were later determined to be the result of the moon shrinking over billions of years as it cooled and travelled further from Earth. There is no evidence for a split moon.

You are such a fuddy duddy. I can look at a full moon and see a face on it. There is a man in the moon. You are just in denial.

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iGetWood wrote:But, NASA

iGetWood wrote:

But, NASA says it looks as if it was split into two pieces and could've only been done by a god. So what if it did split into two pieces?

No, a guy told you that he had seen on CNN that NASA says it looks as if...

 

If their truly had been a segment on CNN like that, don't you think it would be easier to find on the internet? I mean, the way he presents it, it sounds like a pretty big deal.

 

Now, let's give this fellow the benifit of the doubt and say that maybe he didn't flat out lie to you about the CNN segment. In the quote from him that you cite, his English is a bit off at times, and maybe his grasp of the language isn't that great, so maybe he DID see a segment on CNN, but misunderstood what was said there. I mean, I can understand German well enough, but I could easily imagine seeing a news-segment in German and completely missing the point (especially if I was desperately trying to hear MY side of a given story)

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Welcome to Rational

Welcome to Rational Responders.

iGetWood wrote:

"In 2002 during the Islamic month of Ramadan on CNN, Americas number one news station, there was a panel composed of four people. 1) Jew 2) Christian 3) Muslim 4) NASA representative.

Source please.

Quote:
On such month it was discovered by NASA that the MOON seemed as though it was two pieces and it was suggested that if it was so that man could have not done it but God Himself.

Was the moon in two pieces or not? This is just an assertion.

Quote:
The question was posed to all members if there was anything in their scripture to support the idea that the MOON could have been two pieces. No one but the Muslim was able to give an account on the matter.

Says who? Where's the evidence?

Quote:
So, whoever does not accept the idea that The Moon was two pieces once does not accept CNN, NASA, or even GOD."

Lmao.

Are you agnostic? Or are you a Muslim pretending to be agnostic? 

Let's see here.

Google search

Ah, epic fail. Is that you? Hakim?

Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare


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iGetWood wrote:"In 2002

iGetWood wrote:

"In 2002 during the Islamic month of Ramadan on CNN, Americas number one news station, there was a panel composed of four people. 1) Jew 2) Christian 3) Muslim 4) NASA representative. On such month it was discovered by NASA that the MOON seemed as though it was two pieces and it was suggested that if it was so that man could have not done it but God Himself. The question was posed to all members if there was anything in their scripture to support the idea that the MOON could have been two pieces. No one but the Muslim was able to give an account on the matter. 

Apart from the obvious logical fallacies, the other question I'm wondering about is what is NASA's 'scripture'? If you don't have a 'holy book', you are unlikely to be able to point to it when asked. If there are no 'scientific articles' (~scripture?) on the topic, then it's more likely that there is no evidence of such a significant event ever happening. 

iGetWood wrote:

So, whoever does not accept the idea that The Moon was two pieces once does not accept CNN, NASA, or even GOD."

So I don't accept CNN. So NASA does not accept NASA. Assuming you've portrayed this gentlemen's argument correctly, I think I'd be looking at the errors in his logic before worrying about the voracity of his claims. 


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HumanVuvuzela wrote:.......

HumanVuvuzela wrote:

....... before worrying about the voracity of his claims. 

 

Veracity?

Or are his claims really hungry?

 

 

Now what did I start?

 

-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.

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I stand corrected -

I stand corrected - thanks. 

Of course, what I wrote made about as much sense as the opinions expressed in the original post...