How do I beat an atheist in argument.

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How do I beat an atheist in argument.

Recently I have been having several arguments with atheists on the internet. When I have an argument with an atheist in real life, I usually just talk louder than them and tell them that they are going to hell. But there is no way to yell louder on the internet, and there certainly isn’t a function to make my typing louder.

On the internet they have all of these “theories” which I am pretty sure are from Satan. Either that or these deluded atheists just make them up. Some of them think we actually “evolved” from rocks. How stupid does that sound? They say that the earth revolves around the sun and that there isn’t a giant dome covering the earth. How do you argue with that?

I tried telling them there is amazing evidence for design in the universe. Take the eye for example. Even Darwin said that they eye couldn’t have evolved. I just don’t think that these wicked atheists will ever accept the biblical truth. Good thing they will all burn in hell with their satanic naturalism.

 

That does seem to be what they do. The established position is that God created everything - agreed upon over 5½ thousand years in all cultures and societies. Although of course we know that heresy blossomed among the vast majority, corrupting ideas about the nature of the divinity, but the central theme arising out of philosophical discussion and scientific investigation remained.

The Israelites had information and Laws supplied directly by God.

All of a sudden people start suggesting that what has been demonstrated over the mellennia is false and that there is no deity. Just because this or that group abandoned God and manufactured ridiculous stories about "him" or "her" or "them" in a new-found darkness of ignorance doesn't change the fact of their understanding that some deity existed.

The burden of proof is on the atheists. But they cannot comprehend that we are not expressing "opinions" which somehow they might change. We are stating what God says.

The question of whether fallen man may understand everything (or anything) about God is irrelevant in that context - but making things up as they go along depending on the outcomes of arguments is about as good as it gets for atheists I suppose. It is the hallmark of "debate" where there is no actual "substance".

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Darwin only said that it

Darwin only said that it seemed impossible that the eye could have evolved, as an opening rhetorical remark, before going on to discuss the various plausible paths by which it could have evolved via natural selection.

Wkipedia wrote:

...if numerous gradations from a perfect and complex eye to one very imperfect and simple, each grade being useful to its possessor, can be shown to exist; if further, the eye does vary ever so slightly, and the variations be inherited, which is certainly the case; and if any variation or modification in the organ be ever useful to an animal under changing conditions of life, then the difficulty of believing that a perfect and complex eye could be formed by natural selection, though insuperable by our imagination, can hardly be considered real.

The fact that you repeat this common lie about what Darwin actually wrote about the eye demonstrates you are either ignorant or dishonest, and so, on this point alone, deserve only to be ignored.

Oops - just saw you say

Quote:

 They say that the earth revolves around the sun and that there isn’t a giant dome covering the earth.

Ok - POE.

I guess I should thank you for including that bit, it does give your game away - you are parodying Believers, either consciously, or as an unintended self-parody.

Still worth responding to point out the lie about Darwin, since a lot of people might still take that as fact. 

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Nice way to parody

Nice way to parody Christianity


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"How do I beat an atheist in

"How do I beat an atheist in argument."

Simple really. Find a stupid atheist. I know they exist, but they're just as rare as smart theists.

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Perhaps

you aren't as enlightened as you need be. Not to worry, the Guradians have arrived. We know.  Be ready to be wrong.  Old Seer

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Perhaps you're delusional.

Perhaps you're delusional.

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Woah Hoss.

TRUECRISTIAN wrote:

Recently I have been having several arguments with atheists on the internet. When I have an argument with an atheist in real life, I usually just talk louder than them and tell them that they are going to hell. But there is no way to yell louder on the internet, and there certainly isn’t a function to make my typing louder.

On the internet they have all of these “theories” which I am pretty sure are from Satan. Either that or these deluded atheists just make them up. Some of them think we actually “evolved” from rocks. How stupid does that sound? They say that the earth revolves around the sun and that there isn’t a giant dome covering the earth. How do you argue with that?

I tried telling them there is amazing evidence for design in the universe. Take the eye for example. Even Darwin said that they eye couldn’t have evolved. I just don’t think that these wicked atheists will ever accept the biblical truth. Good thing they will all burn in hell with their satanic naturalism.

 

That does seem to be what they do. The established position is that God created everythinging - agreed upon over 5½ thousand years in all cultures and societies. Although of course we know that heresy blossomed among the vast majority, corrupting ideas about the nature of the divinity, but the central theme arising out of philosophical discussion and scientific investigation remained.

The Israelites had information and Laws supplied directly by God.

All of a sudden people start suggesting that what has been demonstrated over the mellennia is false and that there is no deity. Just because this or that group abandoned God and manufactured ridiculous stories about "him" or "her" or "them" in a new-found darkness of ignorance doesn't change the fact of their understanding that some deity existed.

The burden of proof is on the atheists. But they cannot comprehend that we are not expressing "opinions" which somehow they might change. We are stating what God says.

The question of whether fallen man may understand everything (or anything) about God is irrelevant in that context - but making things up as they go along depending on the outcomes of arguments is about as good as it gets for atheists I suppose. It is the hallmark of "debate" where there is no actual "substance".

You're entering a scientific bunch of guys. The first thing you need to know is that (according to my observations) Atheists developed out of evidence that "somebody is wrong". Then the 2nd is the evidence of the horrible record of suffering  and death of many peoples over the centuries brought on by religious authorities. This is what happens when people follow people blindly. The power of any leader is derived only from those that follow. Take away the followers and a leader is nothing. It is the followers that make a leader something. It is the leaders that are faulty, and if the leaders is faulty it transfers to the followers. Consider (from the book) as it has been said, as Nimrod a mighty hunter before the lord. Try  this translation of "hunter'" equals "predator" Nimrod, the leader. As it has been said-The people are saying that they became as Nimrod. Nimrod deceives the people into his idea of things, after that they enter into a system of being predators, like Nimrod himself. The Babylonians were known for their business dealing. Business is a system of predation.

I bring this up to show the effects of leaders. Leaders of religions and governments (same things) must lead by deception. It doesn't work any other way. That's why polotitians are always lieing, Once the initial lie creates the follows the lie is established and must be carried forward or the government collapses. The malfuction of the world is because the leaders keep it that way. After a while the new leaders do not realize that they operate under a lie, the times past are forgotten. Then the lie becomes the truth. everyone moves forward through time unaware that they're deceived.

Understand that I am not a Theist, Deist or Atheist. Ok, lets see whatcha got.

1. quite arguing. they don't want anyone's argument. Tell them what you got. But be understanding they may know the bible better then you if you want to bring up bible stuff. If they slander or insult you they invite argument. Go for it. You'd better be packing the proper side arm or you'll get shot to pieces.

2- Get off the hell thing, they don't care. They believe they'll all die someday so hell won't rate. Are you sure you have a proper understanding of hell. If you mean everlasting hell (no resurrection), don't bet on it. I know an Atheist whom I consider a better Christian  then the average Christian.

3- Of course they have a bunch of theories. Science works off theories. Theories are just the start of an investigation or research.

4- No, those theories they are not from Satan, Satan is deception, These guys are not deceived when it comes to the material sciences. They may be (we say they are or may be) deceived as to what man is. That goes for you too. But, it may be that they aren't deceived they just don't know.

5- Louder won't chip ice. Yelling only causes the ears to close

6- From your perspective they do sound stupid, but they're not. They deal in material study. What's found in rocks can be found in one's body.

7- I don't want to hurt your feelings but the earth does go around the sun. Now that could be a project of scientific study for you. There's no dome around the planet. There are detection devices that would confirm that. Satalites have gone all the way to mars---no dome. Sorry about that

8- Now hold on--- if they don't accept the biblical truth let that be their problem, They can handle it. It's not your job nor mine to save anyone. Its you job to say and tell. let them decide. It's not your responsibility to convince anyone.

9- On the eye thing Darwin could be wrong. I knew Einstien was wrong on some things when I was in the 9th grade. I was right.

10- Atheists are no more wicked then anyone else. It's not wise to play God unless you understand how you yourself are one. Judgment day comes sometime after today. There's a lot of snags one can get caught on by self righteousness.

11- Woah there- Don't do the hell thing, there's plenty of time for people to make decisions.

12- What's  agreed upon may not be true no matter how much time has passed. Keep in mind there was a deceiver loose on the planet a while back and is still around. And those who are given to make determinations for the people may have also been deceived. The evidence shows they are.

13- No-the burden of proof is not on the Atheist. If you came here the proof is on you. However, if anyone makes a flat statement of what they consider  an absolute the burden of that absolute is on them. If someone says a passage in the book is hooey, the burden of proof transfers to them. If someone says the whole bible is hooey, they have a lot of reading and study ahead of them. If you say their science is hooey you've got a lot of reading and study ahead of you. But not to fear, someone's have already done all that. Be patient.

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Old Seer wrote:Understand

Old Seer wrote:

Understand that I am not a Theist, Deist or Atheist. Ok, lets see whatcha got.

I'm only going to tell you about one of two funny things about your post.  This is the thing: Not a Theist, Deist, or Atheist?

Sorry, but if you don't get the other one I can't tell you.

 

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Too bad too. The other one

Too bad too. The other one is the funnier of the two. In my opinion at least.

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Sapient wrote:Old Seer

Sapient wrote:

Old Seer wrote:

Understand that I am not a Theist, Deist or Atheist. Ok, lets see whatcha got.

I'm only going to tell you about one of two funny things about your post.  This is the thing: Not a Theist, Deist, or Atheist?

Sorry, but if you don't get the other one I can't tell you.

 

Lost the debate aye. Try again.


 

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so you're an animal,

Vastet wrote:
Too bad too. The other one is the funnier of the two. In my opinion at least.

Now try the other option. Human ppfffft. get real.

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Old Seer wrote:Vastet

Old Seer wrote:

Vastet wrote:
Too bad too. The other one is the funnier of the two. In my opinion at least.

Now try the other option. Human ppfffft. get real.

Nonsensical response.

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 Was thinking the same

 Was thinking the same thing.  He must not get it. Smiling

 

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Try

Vastet wrote:
Old Seer wrote:

Vastet wrote:
Too bad too. The other one is the funnier of the two. In my opinion at least.

Now try the other option. Human ppfffft. get real.

Nonsensical response.

the other option

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The OP's problem has been

The OP's problem has been resolved.

Vastet wrote:
"How do I beat an atheist in argument." Simple really. Find a stupid atheist. I know they exist, but they're just as rare as smart theists.

Now the OP has (at the very least ) one other serious problem.

He still thinks there's a god, but can't find a way to know if he's wrong and wasting his life away hoping there is.

Apparently, stupidity loves company just as much as misery does...

 

 

 

I keep asking myself " Are they just playin' stupid, or are they just plain stupid?..."

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Old Seer wrote:Vastet

Old Seer wrote:

Vastet wrote:
Old Seer wrote:

Vastet wrote:
Too bad too. The other one is the funnier of the two. In my opinion at least.

Now try the other option. Human ppfffft. get real.

Nonsensical response.

the other option

Yep, doesn't get it. 

 

Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare


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I don't argue with people

I don't argue with people about whether there is a God or not. In the end I think this just causes tensions and pushes them away from religion if anything. I have rational conversations with people sometimes, no bible bashing is necessary, just your logical thoughts on religion and theirs. If they don't believe in God then yelling at the top of your lungs you're going to hell is going to end up making you look like a nut, and it really makes all Christians look like ignorant fools.

But anyway. My biggest case for there being A GOD is that science doesn't really disprove there being a religion. It can contradict the bible if you believe the bible is literal. If you think that not everything in the bible is supposed to be taken literally it doesn't disprove it at all. And do we really expect these guys to begin explaining how god created us through evolution beginning with single celled organisms?

Science tells us that no matter can be created or destroyed. Science tells us a big ball of matter was spinning around and got really hot and exploded creating the universe. What created the ball? Why'd it start spinning? Not sure if this is exactly what the science is, can't remember 8th grade science that well. Why don't you ask the atheists who created matter and the universe when science says no matter can be created or destroyed? At least you believe God did. Stupid to look down on people who believe in God when you offer no explanation.


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Quote:My biggest case for

Quote:
My biggest case for there being A GOD is that science doesn't really disprove there being a religion.

I think you meant science doesn't disprove god. But it certainly disproves some gods, and the christian god is near the top of the list.

Quote:
If you think that not everything in the bible is supposed to be taken literally

And who decides what is literal and what isn't? No manual accompanies the bible. As such, ANY interpretation is valid, which reduces the christian faiths' validity to nothingness.

Quote:
Science tells us that no matter can be created or destroyed.

That's not entirely accurate. There is at least one hypothesis which describes the forming of new matter without violating the laws of physics.

Quote:
Not sure if this is exactly what the science is, can't remember 8th grade science that well.

I recommend looking up the big bang theory.

Quote:
Stupid to look down on people who believe in God when you offer no explanation.

No....

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...what's stupid is to

...what's stupid is to insert magic to explain a process which hasn't been explained yet. It's effectively the same thing as a cave man thinking the sky is angry at him because a thunderstorm rolled through. From his perspective there was no way to know a storm is essentially just friction between warm and cold air.

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Poe vs Turing

The OP is a pretty good satire, but alas, it fails the Poe test, as it is readily distinguishable AS satire.

 

LC >;-}>

 

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Vastet wrote:Quote:My

Vastet wrote:
Quote:
My biggest case for there being A GOD is that science doesn't really disprove there being a religion.
I think you meant science doesn't disprove god. But it certainly disproves some gods, and the christian god is near the top of the list.
Quote:
If you think that not everything in the bible is supposed to be taken literally
And who decides what is literal and what isn't? No manual accompanies the bible. As such, ANY interpretation is valid, which reduces the christian faiths' validity to nothingness.
Quote:
Science tells us that no matter can be created or destroyed.
That's not entirely accurate. There is at least one hypothesis which describes the forming of new matter without violating the laws of physics.
Quote:
Not sure if this is exactly what the science is, can't remember 8th grade science that well.
I recommend looking up the big bang theory.
Quote:
Stupid to look down on people who believe in God when you offer no explanation.
No....

You decide whether you believe it is to be literal or not yourself. People shouldn't be forced to think anything. How does any interpretation being valid reduce the christian faith's validity to nothing? I believe there is a lot of wisdom in the bible. However I think it has probably been tampered with quite a bit over time, possibly some false prophets in there? Maybe some books that should've been included were left out? And I don't really believe the Vatican to be all that great of an organization. But that doesn't make me think the whole thing is necessarily a lie. Whether Christianity is the religion or not I don't know.

How is this new matter created? What created these laws? They make themselves? I'm just saying that complete nothingness turning into something as simple as a grain of dirt sounds pretty crazy let alone a whole universe that goes as far to support life. To me it takes just as much faith to believe that as it does to believe in a god. Either way you're believing in something you don't fully understand and cannot really be sure of.

Why do you recommend I look up the big bang theory? Was my brief statement about it inaccurate?


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Welcome to The Rational

Welcome to The Rational Response Squad.

Huntsman wrote:
But anyway. My biggest case for there being A GOD is that science doesn't really disprove there being a religion. It can contradict the bible if you believe the bible is literal. If you think that not everything in the bible is supposed to be taken literally it doesn't disprove it at all.

A religion that makes no claims about reality is definitively not a religion, but a fiction story, moral philosophy, social club, etc. No religion could survive an unbiased self-critique of all of its claims and practices. Even if a religion was correct, in the event that its claims were shown to be true, all of its adherents would just be believing a bunch of facts. Reality doesn't need a religion to support it.   

Regarding all supernatural claims in the Bible as metaphors would require you to hold that the Christian God doesn't exist, that reincarnation of Jesus Christ never happened, that the revelation never will happen, and that if someone similar to the figure described in Bible as Jesus actually existed, he was just a guy. I would think that disproves Christianity, if it were true. 

Huntsman wrote:
And do we really expect these guys to begin explaining how god created us through evolution beginning with single celled organisms? Science tells us that no matter can be created or destroyed. Science tells us a big ball of matter was spinning around and got really hot and exploded creating the universe. What created the ball? Why'd it start spinning? Not sure if this is exactly what the science is, can't remember 8th grade science that well.

Ignorance is not a good argument. If you don't understand it, that does not necessarily mean that the theory is absurd, merely that you don't understand it.   

Huntsman wrote:
Why don't you ask the atheists who created matter and the universe when science says no matter can be created or destroyed?

Does the Big Bang theory claim that all the matter in the universe was created? You don't know, do you?

Huntsman wrote:
At least you believe God did. Stupid to look down on people who believe in God when you offer no explanation.

Oh, so no matter can be created or destroyed, but god can create matter? That sounds like a contradiction to me.   

So, how does this 'god' exist as a consciousness before the existence of matter?

Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare


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Huntsman wrote:I'm just

Huntsman wrote:
I'm just saying that complete nothingness turning into something as simple as a grain of dirt sounds pretty crazy let alone a whole universe that goes as far to support life. To me it takes just as much faith to believe that as it does to believe in a god.

Do you believe in a god? Yes or no.

Hunstman wrote:
Why do you recommend I look up the big bang theory?

Because you're ignorant.

Hunstman wrote:
Was my brief statement about it inaccurate?

Ah, good guess. Of course it was. Physics is tough though. I doubt you even understand natural selection, so you should start with that first.

 

 

Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare


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Quote:You decide whether you

Quote:
You decide whether you believe it is to be literal or not yourself.

That makes it unreliable.

Quote:
How does any interpretation being valid reduce the christian faith's validity to nothing?

When you can interpret something to mean anything, it doesn't mean anything on its own.

Quote:
But that doesn't make me think the whole thing is necessarily a lie.

And yet the bible is the supposed word of god. Why would this god allow a book that has no meaning to be the focal point of his faith? Three people read the bible and three denominations of christians are born, each hating the others for their so-called misinterpretations. Which is the right one? There are hundreds of christian denominations.
Seems to me a wrathful, jealous god who wants people to worship him would at the very least create a message that wasn't subject to interpretation, in order to allow people to find him instead of fighting over details.

Quote:
How is this new matter created?

Maybe Bob or...

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...someone else can give you

...someone else can give you the name of the hypothesis, it isn't coming to me at the moment. But in laymans terms it effectively is the tearing of nothing into two parts: matter and antimatter. When combined, they annihilate each other (and there is nothing again).
If the net mass of the universe is zero, then this would adequately explain the creation of matter, and concurrently the creation of antimatter.

Quote:
What created these laws? They make themselves?

We don't know they were created, so presuming they were created is fallacious.

Quote:
I'm just saying that complete nothingness turning into something as simple as a grain of dirt sounds pretty crazy let alone a whole universe that goes as far to support life.

And an uncaused cause in nothingness makes more sense? Don't you see how you're just adding another process? One way or another the universe came to be. How about we figure that part out before proposing extra equations?

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Quote:To me it takes just as

Quote:
To me it takes just as much faith to believe that as it does to believe in a god.

And you're right! But we don't believe in things we don't know, so no faith is required. We're still testing the universe to figure it all out. We're comfortable in our ignorance, using it to feed our curiosity. To promote a greater understanding of how the universe ticks, so to speak.
Theists are not, generally, comfortable with their ignorance. They need answers, even if there is no basis for them.

Quote:
Why do you recommend I look up the big bang theory? Was my brief statement about it inaccurate?

Yes. But you did say it'd been awhile since you took it in school, so I'm not holding it against you. Besides, depending on how old you are, it may have changed since you last learned about it. That's the beauty of science. As we probe ever deeper into the cosmos, we find out new things. Sometimes the new things refute the old, as happened with gravity when Einstein came to the table.

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