Mainly visiting

Pacioli
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Mainly visiting

Hello all. Someone from here popped into the forum at the Atheist Foundation of Australia so I thought I would return the favour to have a look around. I am not expecting to post much, mainly owing to lack of time, but it can be interesting to see other conversations, and I may not be able to resist entirely.

On reading a couple of threads, rationality does appear uppermost here so I hope to enjoy it.

For my views, I have found no reason to believe in any god or gods nor see any likelihood for them. As for facts, I do not live in Connecticut, nor a lot of other places.


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Hi

                               All are welcome do stick around,  most of us have had their shots, so we're safe.

 

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Hello

Welcome from Adelaide. 

Pacioli wrote:

Hello all. Someone from here popped into the forum at the Atheist Foundation of Australia so I thought I would return the favour to have a look around. I am not expecting to post much, mainly owing to lack of time, but it can be interesting to see other conversations, and I may not be able to resist entirely. On reading a couple of threads, rationality does appear uppermost here so I hope to enjoy it. For my views, I have found no reason to believe in any god or gods nor see any likelihood for them. As for facts, I do not live in Connecticut, nor a lot of other places.

 

I've just repaid the favour and registered at AFA. My brief examination of the site suggests that it has a slightly different, but equally important, focus on religion's impact on government. Looks like a good one to keep an eye on. 

 


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Welcome to the forum,

Welcome to the forum, Pacioli!


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Welcome to the forum. 

Welcome to the forum.

 


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Welcome to the forums. 

Welcome to the forums.

 


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Yah, welcome to the dark

Yah, welcome to the dark side.  We have dark beer, dark chocolate and dark roast coffee.  But you probably already know that.

 

The biggest difference you will probably notice is that we try to be attractive to theists so that we can get practice at dealing with them.

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Just be happy you don't live

Just be happy you don't live in North Carolina, where churches outnumber 7-11s and Wal Marts. Church is not a business like politicians dont lie.

 

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 Thank you for the welcome,

 Thank you for the welcome, people.

Dark chocolate, coffee and wine are definitely part of my lighter side. We won't go in to the rest of it.

In Australia, churches are actively touting amongst themselves that schools are their best target, to try to capture more of the market. Finding less experienced buyers beats re-examining your product.

I have stopped posting here for a bit, while I try to get my head around the concept of attracting theists. I am not sure that has been my forte so I have to watch to see how it is done. After they have been attracted, is it OK to jump up and down on them then? Just thought I had better check. Smiling


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Pacioli wrote: Thank you

Pacioli wrote:

 Thank you for the welcome, people.

Dark chocolate, coffee and wine are definitely part of my lighter side. We won't go in to the rest of it.

In Australia, churches are actively touting amongst themselves that schools are their best target, to try to capture more of the market. Finding less experienced buyers beats re-examining your product.

I have stopped posting here for a bit, while I try to get my head around the concept of attracting theists. I am not sure that has been my forte so I have to watch to see how it is done. After they have been attracted, is it OK to jump up and down on them then? Just thought I had better check. Smiling

Lol

Well, yes, but that's up to you and your style of engagement. I can give you one example of how you can lure theists into debates pretty effectively: Evidence Chicken. It's also great fun and a good way of learning new things, too.

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Evidence chicken?

I do believe I have played that game. Participation by the other party has been the problem. The "answering the question" bit is often more noticeable for its absence.


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Pacioli wrote:In Australia,

Pacioli wrote:
In Australia, churches are actively touting amongst themselves that schools are their best target, to try to capture more of the market. Finding less experienced buyers beats re-examining your product.

 

I think that that is nearly everywhere.  Religion, like other dangerous drugs, is best targeted at the young.  If you don't start it early, you are much less of a target.

 

The state of Tennessee pulled a boner a couple of months ago right along that line.  Fairly recently, we had a major court finding that intelligent design was pretty clearly creationism dressed in a cheap suit.  So they tried (and failed) to pass an "academic freedom" law that would make it legal for teachers to teach any controversial thing.  At the same time, they also tried to (and also failed) to pass a law banning the word gay from schools.  Which resulted in this:

NoMoreCrazyPeople wrote:
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Pacioli wrote:I do believe I

Pacioli wrote:
I do believe I have played that game. Participation by the other party has been the problem. The "answering the question" bit is often more noticeable for its absence.

That means you've won the game! Maybe just rub it in a little more, for the sake of the audience. Gloating over the chicken is half the fun.

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Answers in Gene Simmons

Answers in Gene Simmons wrote:

Pacioli wrote:
In Australia, churches are actively touting amongst themselves that schools are their best target, to try to capture more of the market. Finding less experienced buyers beats re-examining your product.

 

I think that that is nearly everywhere.  Religion, like other dangerous drugs, is best targeted at the young.  If you don't start it early, you are much less of a target.

 

The state of Tennessee pulled a boner a couple of months ago right along that line.  Fairly recently, we had a major court finding that intelligent design was pretty clearly creationism dressed in a cheap suit.  So they tried (and failed) to pass an "academic freedom" law that would make it legal for teachers to teach any controversial thing.  At the same time, they also tried to (and also failed) to pass a law banning the word gay from schools.  Which resulted in this:

Ha! Check this one out. George Takei as a nun on Broadway. Go George!

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George is fucking awesome.

George is fucking awesome. lol

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Welcome to the forums.

Welcome to the forums.

I happen to live in Memphis, TN. and the homophobic comments from all the " christians" in the local news forums when all of that  don't say gay started, were hilarious.

Having the pleasure of arguing with alot of christians down here, as an atheist, I always get the same stereotypical response.

"OH NO, YOUR AN ATHEIST ! YOU MUST BE ONE OF THOSE COMMUNIST, SECULAR, LEFT-WING, AMERICAN HATING, UNPATRIOTIC, ABORTION SUPPORTING, GAY-LOVING, IMMORAL, PEOPLE THAT WANTS TO TAKE PRAYER AWAY FROM MY CHILDREN AND TURN OUR GREAT NATION INTO A CESSPOOL OF FILTH, VIOLENCE, FORNICATION AND BURN OUR FLAG !!!!!!".

Hysterical Christians. They have no clue what secular really means. That I happen to be straight, but do not care at all what someone;s sexual orientation is, because it is nobody's right to judge anyone's sex life. That I had both a father and grandfather that served in the U.S. Army, one during WORLD WAR II and one during Vietnam. That I happen to be a patriot and love my country, and that is WHY I don't want prayer in the schools, nor do I want religion as a government institution, am not a communist and have no interest in burning the flag. But hey, I haven't met to many theists that had the capacity to listen. Most seem to be only capable of parroting what their leaders tell them to.

I actually almost feel sorry for most of the theists. (Almost). I came from a heavily indoctrinated Catholic background. But it is not them that I find so much fault with, as it is their leaders, that use their podiums to spread more ignorance, bigotry, division, fear and intolerance. It just disturbs me that so many people will vote and push for political agendas, simply because their preachers and their priests tell them too.

 

“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno


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If you cross Pacioli with Zeno you get Al Paxino

First Pacioli then Darwinsbulldog.

Whats up?

worldslaziestbusker wrote: "...watching [RDF] sink got me thinking about what it would mean to me if my favourite forum (AFA forum) went the same way, and have been putting some effort into making sure I have a lifeboat on the davits, ready to go..."

I enjoyed my time at AFA while it lasted.

 

 

 

 

 


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Lion IRC, don't tell me you are wrong again!

 "while it lasted"?

You know it is still there, Lion. Alas, you know also that you can not post any longer owing to the wibble you commit. Enjoy the other places Lion. I may even visit you somewhere, some day.

P.


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Yes - "While it lasted" Wheres the error?

"While it lasted"

You used to be good with semantics and nuance. Now you jump to conclusions. What happened?

Dont get paranoid. I never said "it" had shut down or turned into yet another graveyard of the graveyards of the godless forums (fora).

While "it" lasted was a reference to the cancellation of my AFA visa. (Its OK. I know what type of theists they prefer over there)

Of course its still there...for now.

 

But its unusual to see you and DB popping up like daisies here at RRS and WLB at rationalskeptics.  


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Evidence chicken LOL

Luring theists into debates then banning them.

Good one AFA!

 

PZ Myers unplonked me out of the dungeon at the new Pharyngula. (He's a great guy!)

Any chance Protium might rethink his "poultry in motion" approach to "evidence chicken" and take me off READ ONLY?


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What happened?Old age and a

What happened?

Old age and a year of house renovation can do that to a bloke. it's a sad story. Wait, no, I too am doing fine thank you. Sometimes I visit other fora in hope of a different argument.

I'll mention you again to adminibaby, to find out whether you have yet offered Pikkiwoki enough coconuts. Smiling


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it's all going over my

it's all going over my head.

 

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p { margin-bottom: 0.08in; }

p { margin-bottom: 0.08in; }

There has been some recent crossover between us and an Aussie atheist forum.

 

A few weeks ago, there was a new member here with some strange ideas (nothing new of course) who eventually admitted that she had registered over there the same day and was cross posting. So I headed over there to make sure that I had the whole story.

 

They are a nice bunch of people. Well, their server admin is a total douche but that is fairly minor. Anyway, my posting over there got a few of them curious about us (as they seemed to have a poor view of us based entirely on rumors). About 6 to 8 of them are now active here. And a few of us are active there.

 

I don't have the back story on lionirc but I rather gather that he is either banned or stuck in trollville (they call their version fantasy island).

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Pretty much right, AiGS. At

Pretty much right, AiGS. 

At the AFA forum, someone who persists in advancing ideas for which they can produce no evidence can be restricted to posting on Fantasy Island where their thread can continue. If they persistently break forum rules, one of which is "answer relevant questions", then they can be reduced to read-only status entirely. For these reasons AFA tends to have visiting theists rather than resident theists. Goddists of all forms usually wind up with questions they can not or will not answer, nor will grant they do not have an answer.

Lion engaged in a formal debate with Davo, if I recall correctly, before falling foul of the answer questions rule, IIRC again.

@Sapient: the reference to Pikkiwoki is to a supposed Papua - New Guinean god which offers to shower you with mud, pigs and all the coconuts you can carry, and likes receiving much the same.

I first encountered LionIRC on the old Richard Dawkins forum, and hold an amiable view of his antics (peace, Lion), up to a point.


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Well, then, welcome Lion

Well, then, welcome Lion IRC!

You're more than welcome to stay and chat here with no fear of banning, provided you don't break our forum rules (which is actually pretty hard to do and takes a concerted effort on the part of the person; still, a fair few have done so).

If you are interested in some clarity over where we draw the lines, you may want to read two posts/threads which were sparked by the recent AFA/RRS crossover: Am I being irrational? by kimsland with some commentary by RRS members including myself; and Still unapologetic, thanks for asking. by me, inspired both by kimsland's post and also by recent events in the atheo-sphere. (Did I just coin a new awesome word? I hope so. Off to google...) (Edit: Sadly, no.)

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Pacioli wrote:Pretty much

Pacioli wrote:

Pretty much right, AiGS. 

At the AFA forum, someone who persists in advancing ideas for which they can produce no evidence can be restricted to posting on Fantasy Island where their thread can continue. If they persistently break forum rules, one of which is "answer relevant questions", then they can be reduced to read-only status entirely. For these reasons AFA tends to have visiting theists rather than resident theists. Goddists of all forms usually wind up with questions they can not or will not answer, nor will grant they do not have an answer.

Lion engaged in a formal debate with Davo, if I recall correctly, before falling foul of the answer questions rule, IIRC again.

@Sapient: the reference to Pikkiwoki is to a supposed Papua - New Guinean god which offers to shower you with mud, pigs and all the coconuts you can carry, and likes receiving much the same.

I first encountered LionIRC on the old Richard Dawkins forum, and hold an amiable view of his antics (peace, Lion), up to a point.

If I supported rules, that would be a good one.

 

A belated welcome to the forum Pacioli and LionIRC.

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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Atheosphere - hmmm?

"Atheosphere." ®

It has a certain memetic ring to it.

I think its got legs.

 

 


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I might "manely" visit here too for a while.

I only joined here to lurk.

But since the folk at Friendly Atheist decided to apply some asymmetric rules of engagement and I truly dont want to get banned from AvT fora, I might hang out here and "answer relevant questions". 

 

Have you stopped beating your wife yet?  (Answer the question!)

How come only deluded people believe in God? (Answer the question!)

Where's the evidence for God? (Answer the question!)

How come Stephen Hawking knows what the laws of gravity were before the big bang? (Answer the question!)

 


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Lion IRC wrote:I only joined

Lion IRC wrote:
I only joined here to lurk.

But since the folk at Friendly Atheist decided to apply some asymmetric rules of engagement and I truly dont want to get banned from AvT fora, I might hang out here and "answer relevant questions". 

Thank you for the link, Lion. I could say it was instructive but it was more of a reminder.

Lurking does not appear to be your forte. I will watch what happens for a while.


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Lion IRC wrote: I only

Lion IRC wrote:

I only joined here to lurk.

But since the folk at Friendly Atheist decided to apply some asymmetric rules of engagement and I truly dont want to get banned from AvT fora, I might hang out here and "answer relevant questions". 

Sorry to hear about that. Very interesting reading. I didn't even know they had a forum.

I won't draw any immediate conclusions based only on my extremely limited knowledge of their forum and their rules. But the things you list in your post are exactly the kinds of things we try to avoid doing here. I won't say we always get it right, but we do try. I too dislike double-standards; it's a big pet peeve of mine. And so I'm especially self-skeptical of myself imposing double-standards on others. Hypocrisy is the mother of all double-standards.

It could be the case that they are imposing a different desired level of discourse, and so are less tolerant of what they see as disruptive behaviour. However, I would expect them to still present a clear, equitable, and consistent set of rules for what is acceptable and what is not. If your post's complaints are accurate (and I don't know enough at this point to say that they are or are not, so this is purely hypothetical for me), it would appear to me that they need to improve their rules and/or clarity of communication about the rules and/or consistency in applying their rules.

Quote:
Have you stopped beating your wife yet?  (Answer the question!)

Not married. Your source of information on me is unreliable.

Quote:
How come only deluded people believe in God? (Answer the question!)

I don't know. (Always a valid response to a question, even if it is facetious, as it is in this case. )

Quote:
Where's the evidence for God? (Answer the question!)

I would rephrase this as "What evidence can you demonstrate that supports your belief in a god or gods?" At the end of the day, it's really about beliefs, isn't it?

Quote:
How come Stephen Hawking knows what the laws of gravity were before the big bang? (Answer the question!)

Have you ever watched Rosencrantz & Guildenstern Are Dead where Gary Oldman and Tim Roth play 'the Game of Questions'?



 

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Lion IRC wrote:Have you

Lion IRC wrote:

Have you stopped beating your wife yet?  (Answer the question!)

 

I have a husband, but no wife.  I had to stop beating him after his double bypass.

 

Lion IRC wrote:

How come only deluded people believe in God? (Answer the question!)

 

Because god/s/dess is a delusion.

 

Lion IRC wrote:

Where's the evidence for God? (Answer the question!)

 

It must be under Ken Hovind's bed.  No one has found it anywhere else.

 

Lion IRC wrote:

How come Stephen Hawking knows what the laws of gravity were before the big bang? (Answer the question!)

 

Because he is Superman and can travel through time.

 

 

 

Duh.

 

-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.

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natural wrote:Have you ever

natural wrote:

Have you ever watched Rosencrantz & Guildenstern Are Dead where Gary Oldman and Tim Roth play 'the Game of Questions'?

Yes, I read the letter. It explains everything.