Debate on evolution

Jeffrick
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Debate on evolution

 

 

 

                            I was asked by my local atheist group to appear on TV to  debate evolution with a Muslim scholer, I said yes, and now the results are on youtube. Don't expect to see fire works,  The scholer was an MD  and the only thing we disagreed on was god/religion. After that it was histrionics and keep religion out of science class rooms.

 

                            btw  I'm introduced has  Jim Frederick of Halton Peel Humanist Association and Rational response squad, but the name plate comes up as J.Jackson,  that's the president of the HPH association.  I was asked to tone down my real voice because the technition couldn't recalibrate the single microphone,   the clear edit was becaused I flubbed a name, then got it right with my normal voice,which sounded like a bomb went off, then did it again in the reserved voice.  I could only find Parts 1 to 4 out of 5. Does any one else want to try for #5?

 

 

                          Tell me what you think gang.   

 

 

                          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxlbpjWbJu4&feature=related

     

                          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvKPn55xRkc&feature=related

 

                          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCJMlOYkF8Y&feature=related  

 

                          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDWeuUKHjzo&feature=related 

 

 

                         

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Ken G.
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Jeffrick wrote: Tell me what you think gang.

  Well, right now I'm watching "Inside Job" its on Starz5 ,but after that I would be honored to give you my two bits. O'yeah ,I almost forgot, I gotta feed my Dog, but after that OK.

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I could not get past the

I could not get past the Muslims opening argument.

"I agree evolution is fact like gravity"

SO THE FUCK WHAT

We've heard that from Christians too.

Again, this Apu Slurpee salesman is doing the same damned thing any believer of any label does.

"You cant explain everything so therefor Allah"

He conceded that evolution was fact like gravity. SO THE FUCK WHAT.

How does he jump from "Evolution is fact' to "Therefore Allah is the one true god".

It doesn't matter what label of religion is arguing for a cognition as a start. WHy? He can accept gravity as natural. And I am sure he can also observe doing things like taking a shit or walking his dog as not being the result of Allah or Mickey Mouse.

Like Christians he simply wont let go of the idea of Superman doing all this when the reality is that all religions make up super heros.

 

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Great job buddy.... so far

Great job buddy.... so far they seem like nice fellas... I hope it lasts as I watch more segments hahaha


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p { margin-bottom: 0.08in; }

I agree with Brian on this one. The opening was a tactical move to punk you. I did not bother watching after that.

 

I also did a search on the account and they do not have part five up or at least not yet.

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Atheistextremist
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Hey Jim - good man taking this on.

 

Tend to think the right way to respond to this guy would have been to ask him for empirical proof of divine intervention that matches the rigour of the data supporting the evolutionary theory he claims to accept. What is the man's standard for evidence? Essentially he makes an argument from complexity and his introduction of quantum theory seemed designed to allow him to posit mysteries within fundamentals that can be labelled 'god'. 

If all cellular biochemical processes are natural and take place in this space time and are composed of known molecules and compounds then it makes sense the processes involved are simply very complex, not divine. 

Felt you argued past each other a bit - I guess not unexpectedly. Giving him the opportunity to claim an arab wellspring for the whole European enlightenment, while showing there were plenty of empiricist arabs, seemed to allow him to veer further off topic.

He seemed a decent chap all in all and very comfortable with pushing his central yet wholly unsupported assertion. I admit that I like it when theists retreat all the way to an unprovable external agency as prime mover and instigator of abiogenesis. There's nowhere to go once they are in this corner and their argument is inevitably based on what is not known, not what can be proved using testable explanation. 

But yeah - he punked you at the outset by claiming to accept all the evidence bar first cause. All you can do there is call the fallacy and ask him to admit his position is an unsupported personal hypothesis that flouts the very scientific process he claims to respect. 

I'm surprised he claimed to speak for all muslims yet claimed he accepted evolutionary theory right up to the point of RNA strand replication. Do muslims really all think this way? 

 

"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck


Jeffrick
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update

 

 

 

                        I got a write up in the Muslim times, if anyone is still interested.

 

 

                       http://www.themuslimtimes.org/2011/08/religion/debate-is-evolution-blind-or-guided

 

 

                       The man who wrote the article is the same Dr.Shah I was debating with.   Has anyone else here been written up in The Muslim Times without a fatwah attached?  

 

 

 

"Very funny Scotty; now beam down our clothes."

VEGETARIAN: Ancient Hindu word for "lousy hunter"

If man was formed from dirt, why is there still dirt?


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Neato!

 

 

I like Dr Shah, but after reading this article I'm again struck by his stout defense of biogeography and molecular biology as proof of a single origin of species - just as we'd all believe - but with an immaterial first cause only comprehensible through embracing the supernatural through 'metaphysics'. How Dr Shah defines metaphysics is uncertain but personally, I'd rank the quantum physicist more highly than the theologian as a metaphysician. This guy's position is very like my big brother's - 'science knows everything except first cause - and somehow I can personally know an external agency'. Again, it seems to me that his standard of evidence is fundamentally inconsistent.  

"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck


Recovering fund...
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Why are we still "debating

Why are we still "debating evolution" at all? Maybe we should start debating the round earth theory with the Flat Earth Society while we're at it.

The fact that we honor these guys with a debate when they do not have a "debate" is what disturbs me. It's really just giving them a platform to spread their pseudoscience crap.

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Jeffrick
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Dear recovering.

Recovering fundamentalist wrote:

Why are we still "debating evolution" at all? Maybe we should start debating the round earth theory with the Flat Earth Society while we're at it.

The fact that we honor these guys with a debate when they do not have a "debate" is what disturbs me. It's really just giving them a platform to spread their pseudoscience crap.

 

 

 

 

                                 Clearly you did not see the videos at all.   The ONLY thing Dr.Shah and I disagreed on was the GOD concept.  I did not disagree on his science,  and I said as much at least three times.  How an educated man, like Dr.Shah,  could seperate his education and experience from a god concept, baffles me  -  no end. My mother  had a medical degree and she did the same thing and I do not understand their point of view. 

 

 

                                  Further to that my mother told me back in about 1969,   "don't let anyone prey for me if I end up here!!!" (ICU Unit) She was an ICU specialist [20 years or so].  ICU = Intensive Care Unit.  She saw with her own eyes  exactly what the Templeton foundation found out 20+ years later,  preying for a patient WAS detrimental to recovery.  Basicly they have  the ideal that God will cure them so they do not have to worry about recovery.

 

 

                                  She even laughed about the fact that "the  effing atheist"  did better then "REAL people".  I was about 14 then,  less then a year later she realized that I was an 'effing'  atheist.  But she could still NOT reconcile her science from her beliefs. Mom never did give me a hard time about my disbelief, which was sort of a left handed recognition {for her} that I was right.  I am left-handed,  in spite or her best effort to make her 7 children RIGHT handed.

 

 

                                  Just as an aside  there are 3 types of people in this world.   Right-handed,   Left-Handed,  and cross-handed.  I am,  -by licence -, a machanical engineer, but my specialty is human Mechanics.   After 30+ years of study and experience I can say that there is no such thing as a AMBIDEXTEROUS human being.    Ambidexterous means 'do all things EQUALY with eather hand' ,  I have never seen THAT.  I HAVE seen people who do certain things with Left hand and certain things with their right hand.     Imagine if you would a baseball player who - throws righthanded BUT bats lefthanded or switch hits,  that person IS ,  by nature, left handed BUT raise right handed.

 

 

                                    Put it another way; like it or not mother nature creates half the babys born in this world female;  the other half are male;  it's a 50/50 proposition.  The same damn thing applys to handedness.   Do I have your curiosity yet or am I just blowing in the wind?

"Very funny Scotty; now beam down our clothes."

VEGETARIAN: Ancient Hindu word for "lousy hunter"

If man was formed from dirt, why is there still dirt?


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 This may be a little off

 This may be a little off topic, but I am interested.  Perhaps a new thread?


Jeffrick
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bump

 

 

 

 

                           For those with the interest.   The videos are of Prof.John Jackson's TV debate with Dr.Shah. Taped on the same day my show was. Jackson was debating Humanist morality vs. Muslim morality.  I have all 5 parts.  Yet I still can't find part 5 of 5 for my segment.

 

 

 

                           http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUShoqU-6HY

                           

                           http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUdQ9_MsVY4

 

                          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrmbW5gfSoE

 

                          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQL-ULeA9xU

 

                           http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hum5sRUE9F8

"Very funny Scotty; now beam down our clothes."

VEGETARIAN: Ancient Hindu word for "lousy hunter"

If man was formed from dirt, why is there still dirt?