Letter to Romans 13

luca
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Letter to Romans 13

Before effectively moving my ass for the first time in the church of my little village, here, this forum is apparently my last resource. What I wanted to ask is a simple question, I don't even need a debate. Dialoguing with christians for example on irc channels got me and another user a ban (from Ron^ on #christian^ or #catholic, don't remember, on DALnet), I've been insulted, nobody even tried to understand before writing to me. I am pretty disappointed from the lack of patience, of understanding and openness the religious people are supposed to possess because of the, you know, 'spiritual' path and all. Evidently if there's not a way to have a direct answer from a theist I have to ask here, and anybody wants to respond is welcome.
I still think this is a simple question.

From what I read on a catholic bible, starting from letter to romans 13:1, the text says the governments and authorities are enacted from 'above', do you agree?
Now what I see is that not only christians, but many other religions too despise human authorities. How does this connect with what have been said in the new testament, expecially for those who take the bible as the divine inerrant word?


Brian37
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luca wrote:Before

luca wrote:
Before effectively moving my ass for the first time in the church of my little village, here, this forum is apparently my last resource. What I wanted to ask is a simple question, I don't even need a debate. Dialoguing with christians for example on irc channels got me and another user a ban (from Ron^ on #christian^ or #catholic, don't remember, on DALnet), I've been insulted, nobody even tried to understand before writing to me. I am pretty disappointed from the lack of patience, of understanding and openness the religious people are supposed to possess because of the, you know, 'spiritual' path and all. Evidently if there's not a way to have a direct answer from a theist I have to ask here, and anybody wants to respond is welcome. I still think this is a simple question. From what I read on a catholic bible, starting from letter to romans 13:1, the text says the governments and authorities are enacted from 'above', do you agree? Now what I see is that not only christians, but many other religions too despise human authorities. How does this connect with what have been said in the new testament, expecially for those who take the bible as the divine inerrant word?

It does not matter when arguing theists or bible quotes, OF ANY version, whether I agree or not. Trying to nail a theist to meaning of scripture is like trying to nail jello to the wall.

They cant even agree amongst themselves as to what a particular verse means or which version of their book of myth they should use. To the Baptist/Catholic/Mormon the outsider outside their pet label is not a "true christian" and only they were, as individuals. lucky enough to get the interpretation right.

I would not advise you to go down this route. Or simply be aware that is nothing but goal post moving. The verse(whichever is being discussed) will mean what it means to them, until you bring up an objection then it will magically mean something else.

I value those who have the patience to go through that convoluted gang manual, whichever version being quoted, but ultimately to me, no matter how many different ways they can read the same verse, magic babies and zombie god/s(birth and death of Jesus) are silly claims.

I prefer to focus on the scientific absurdities of the bible and the immorality of the bible and the god character. That to me is much harder for a bible quoter to squirm out of than a general interpretation outside of those two issues I mentioned.

People here as atheists will give you their opinion. I really don't have one because I see it as an irrelevant distraction away from the core issue of the claim of a non-material magical super brain.

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


Jean Chauvin
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Hi OPIE

Hi OPIE,

Yes, of course. All those who are in power are due to God's Sovereignty. Even Obama's evil Marxism take over of America. This is awesome given that God is sovereign, even over China and other evil countries.

"Christians" who are not patient with you is due to our postmodern culture. Most Christians have been bitten by liberalism. the Bite is deep. Thus they are very impatient and very untrained in basic thinking skills.

If you are an apostate, fine. I've talked to many apostates. They are generally very absurd, but I still talk.

Luca, it comes down to this. The people that apostasize are usually the people that don't want to be accountable for their sin. So logically speaking the morality goes out the window BEFORE the theology of apostasy.

Oh, and Roman Catholicism is a cult. They are pagan and are NOT Chrisitan.

Respectfully,

Jean Chauvin (Jude 3).

A Rational Christian of Intelligence (rare)with a valid and sound justification for my epistemology and a logical refutation for those with logical fallacies and false worldviews upon their normative of thinking in retrospect to objective normative(s). This is only understood via the imago dei in which we all are.

Respectfully,

Jean Chauvin (Jude 3).


Antipatris
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It doesn't have to connect.

It doesn't have to connect. Being religious means you can have your cake and eat it it too. Of course, they don't like anyone to point out the essential dishonesty of their point of view. Hence the insults, etc, you've been experiencing. (See the troll Jean's post for yet another example)

Simple question, simple answer.

 

Edit : If you'd like a longer, more christian, more convoluted and completely batshit crazy answer to the same question, try this : http://www.twotlj.org/G-2-7-E.html

Warning, it's tldr and doesn't make a lick of sense.


Brian37
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Jean Chauvin wrote:Hi

Jean Chauvin wrote:

Hi OPIE,

Yes, of course. All those who are in power are due to God's Sovereignty. Even Obama's evil Marxism take over of America. This is awesome given that God is sovereign, even over China and other evil countries.

"Christians" who are not patient with you is due to our postmodern culture. Most Christians have been bitten by liberalism. the Bite is deep. Thus they are very impatient and very untrained in basic thinking skills.

If you are an apostate, fine. I've talked to many apostates. They are generally very absurd, but I still talk.

Luca, it comes down to this. The people that apostasize are usually the people that don't want to be accountable for their sin. So logically speaking the morality goes out the window BEFORE the theology of apostasy.

Oh, and Roman Catholicism is a cult. They are pagan and are NOT Chrisitan.

Respectfully,

Jean Chauvin (Jude 3).

Japan got what it deserved, gays are bad and now Obama's Marxism exists because god allows it? The only thing that would complete your prickish behavior Jean would be to call Jews names like Mel Gibson.

How about reality. Japan's tsunami was a result of nature. Gays are not bad, and Obama is not a Marxist.

And FYI Jean, my mother is a Catholic. Yes it is a cult but so is your sect and pet god. So is every god club. My mother however, is not an asshole like you.

Religions are merely cults on steroids which have political power. Christianity was a cult and still is, in all its sects, just like the Hebrews and Muslims. You want so desperately to demonize those who don't buy into your fear mongering.

Take your fear mongering hate and bigotry and shove it up your ass. You simply cannot stand that other people don't buy your myth.

 

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


Vastet
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Rofl. The most right leaning

Rofl. The most right leaning democratic president in history is an evil marxist. There isn't a smiley sufficient for that funny.

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Atheistextremist
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Hi, Luca.

 

luca wrote:

From what I read on a catholic bible, starting from letter to romans 13:1, the text says the governments and authorities are enacted from 'above', do you agree? Now what I see is that not only christians, but many other religions too despise human authorities. How does this connect with what have been said in the new testament, expecially for those who take the bible as the divine inerrant word?

 

Pretty obviously the idea authority derives from above is a totally baseless assertion. Religions certainly see secular authority as a threat - there's no doubt about that whatever. Given jesus says "Render unto Caesar" in the NT, I should think that actually endorses worldly authority. Mmmmm. I think muslims loathe secular authority which is funny because it's far less corrupt that the allah-endorsed despots of the muslim world.  

"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck


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Religion and politics

Religious authorities are bound to compete and collude with other authorities as they are in the same business: namely the business of telling people what to do. This can be seen throughout history.

Ideally they'd run a theocracy, but when that isn't possible, alliances with secular authorities are formed.

 


luca
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thanks to all

Quote:
People here as atheists will give you their opinion. I really don't have one because I see it as an irrelevant distraction away from the core issue of the claim of a non-material magical super brain.

I understand this, and I do not care di per sé on the bible. What I simply noticed is that that verses are in contrast with reality. So I asked, why? Someone said "the view of the author was his own", so I said "but its there, so?". So you're banned. I want to understand a theist's view, that's it.

--------

I'm reading the "tl;dr" link.

------------------

Quote:
Yes, of course. All those who are in power are due to God's Sovereignty

Okay. So, you have to, how to say it... owe them respect? and taxes?


luca
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tl;dr link read

the way of the lord jesus

LIVING A CHRISTIAN LIFE

Chapter 7: Equal Dignity, Communication, Interpersonal Relationships, and Resitution [sic]

So riassuming this link says:
-you don't need freedom
-"christians wash whiter"
-don't sin
-what would jesus do?

The answer in the end is "it depends".
It depends on the interpretation of "moral" and all that stuff that is given.
Essentially I would say that romans 13:1 ff is false-ish.