Christian converting to Islam

Ktulu
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Christian converting to Islam

 This article on cnn.com.  I think it is noteworthy because it is such a rare occurrence.

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2011/03/25/a-change-of-faith/?hpt=C1

 

Here are a few quotes for those too lazy to follow the link:

Quote:

 

The actual conversion was brief. It only involved one sentence: “ I bear witness that there is no God worthy of worship but God, I bear witness that Mohammed is the messenger of God. ”

For 30-year-old Mathew Miller, those words represented the culmination of a long religious transformation from Christianity to Islam...

_____

....“When I put my head on the ground with them, it felt like I could say anything to God, and what I was asking for at the time was guidance. I wanted to know whether what I was doing was the right thing to do.”

His mother had long expected his change of religious faith. “I told my mother I was Muslim in Disneyland. She said ‘I don’t necessarily know if I feel good about it, but if it makes you happy and it’s what you feel is the right way, then there’s nothing I can do.’”

 

"Don't seek these laws to understand. Only the mad can comprehend..." -- George Cosbuc


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Hi KTULA

Hi Ktula,

I knew guy once who was born with no ears. You have no excuse. I shall educate you again.

A person does not leave Chrisianity. This would imply free will. If a person "leaves" Christianity, they were never a Chrisitan to being with (I John 1:19).

So it's logically impossible for a Christian to convert to Islam.

But a professing Christian who is actually a non-Christian, that is what you speak of.

You're getting sloppy, you need an education.

Respectfully,

Jean Chauvin (Jude 3).

 

 

A Rational Christian of Intelligence (rare)with a valid and sound justification for my epistemology and a logical refutation for those with logical fallacies and false worldviews upon their normative of thinking in retrospect to objective normative(s). This is only understood via the imago dei in which we all are.

Respectfully,

Jean Chauvin (Jude 3).


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  I'll be the first to

 Smiling I'll be the first to admit I don't keep the score on religion adherents, but I haven't heard of too many cases like this.  It may just be my ignorance.  My assumptions are not based on any research what so ever, not even a quick Google search.  

Jean, nobody is 'Christian to begin with', we're all born atheists, you become, convert, or are brainwashed into being a Christian. Your platonic Christianity is just as absurd as all the rest of your bible derived claims.

Sorry to hear about your earless friend by the way, I hope he's alright. 

"Don't seek these laws to understand. Only the mad can comprehend..." -- George Cosbuc


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Hi KTULA

Hi KTula,

Are you sure about that? Rednef adhere to Tabala Rasa when we're born. But you say, no, we are NOT Tabala Rasa, but instead, born atheists. (LOL).

Atheists are hilarious.

Anyway, the correct answer is that SOME are born atheists via being born as a reprobate or as degenerate. Yet, SOME are born as God's elect.

Either way, you're in a conflict with other empirical atheists. I thought you were an empiricists.

(LOL).

Respectfully,

Jean Chauvin (Jude 3).

A Rational Christian of Intelligence (rare)with a valid and sound justification for my epistemology and a logical refutation for those with logical fallacies and false worldviews upon their normative of thinking in retrospect to objective normative(s). This is only understood via the imago dei in which we all are.

Respectfully,

Jean Chauvin (Jude 3).


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Jean Chauvin wrote:Hi

Jean Chauvin wrote:

Hi KTula,

Are you sure about that? Rednef adhere to Tabala Rasa when we're born. But you say, no, we are NOT Tabala Rasa, but instead, born atheists. (LOL).

Atheists are hilarious.

Anyway, the correct answer is that SOME are born atheists via being born as a reprobate or as degenerate. Yet, SOME are born as God's elect.

Either way, you're in a conflict with other empirical atheists. I thought you were an empiricists.

(LOL).

Respectfully,

Jean Chauvin (Jude 3).

Yep, born with no opinion or belief in Gods or much of anything else - how does that violate tabula rasa?

It makes more sense then "God has decided that you are saved/damned before you can know anything at all".

It makes my job easier when you own yourself, Jean, but it's not as much fun.

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
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 I meant atheist as in not

 I meant atheist as in not a theist.  Not a rational atheist as you're debating here (insert rant how atheists are not rational).  But yes, every new born on this earth is neutral, or in other words does not hold a belief in any gods, hence an a-theist.

Let me break down the term for you because you seem to attach a lot of baggage to it.  You've studied Greek so I'm not sure why this is so difficult... 

Theism is the belief that at least one deity exists. A- something simply means the negation of that, or in English, Non-, un-, not a.

A-theism so someone that does not hold a theistic belief.  You can argue from authority and name people with different definitions that you consider leading atheists, but that doesn't change the basic definition.  As a side note, simply because someone is popular and of a category, does not make them leaders in said category, I'm sure that's some sort of a fallacy but I can't quite put my finger on what type Smiling you may enlighten me since you're the logician.

Now, as for my previous comment, I repeat, every new born, is NOT a theist, hence ATHEIST... I'm not sure why you assign a moral value to the word, it's like saying that bakers are evil.  Now if you want to touch on empiricism, that's a whole other topic, and yes, I am one.

"Don't seek these laws to understand. Only the mad can comprehend..." -- George Cosbuc


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http://us1.harunyahya.com/Det

http://us1.harunyahya.com/Detail/T/EDCRFV/productId/20736/THE_NUMBER_OF_PEOPLE_CONVERTING_TO_ISLAM_IN_TEXAS_IS_GROWING_BY_THE_DAY

Over here in europe it's mostly the kids from extremely religious christian families who make the switch. (Not many, though. About 10 a year in Holland, but it's growing)

What puzzles me more is when girls convert to islam. That just makes no sense to me at all.

 

 


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Anonymouse

Anonymouse wrote:

http://us1.harunyahya.com/Detail/T/EDCRFV/productId/20736/THE_NUMBER_OF_PEOPLE_CONVERTING_TO_ISLAM_IN_TEXAS_IS_GROWING_BY_THE_DAY

Over here in europe it's mostly the kids from extremely religious christian families who make the switch. (Not many, though. About 10 a year in Holland, but it's growing)

What puzzles me more is when girls convert to islam. That just makes no sense to me at all.

 

 

Perhaps it is ignorance coupled with masochism.

"Don't seek these laws to understand. Only the mad can comprehend..." -- George Cosbuc


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Jean Chauvin wrote:Hi

Jean Chauvin wrote:

Hi Ktula,

I knew guy once who was born with no ears. You have no excuse. I shall educate you again.

A person does not leave Chrisianity. This would imply free will. If a person "leaves" Christianity, they were never a Chrisitan to being with (I John 1:19).

So it's logically impossible for a Christian to convert to Islam.

But a professing Christian who is actually a non-Christian, that is what you speak of.

You're getting sloppy, you need an education.

Respectfully,

Jean Chauvin (Jude 3).

 

 

Your god must not have ears for you when you pray for people to keep your belief or convert to your belief. And if, according to you, nothing happens that god doesn't want happening, then this guy becoming a Muslim was part of god's plan.

Boo hoo, baby Jebus lost a fan member. Would you like a little whine with that cheese?

 

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 I am always perplexed by

 I am always perplexed by people who turn in one form of crazy for another. You would think that if they recognized that one faith was BS they would realize the newer one is too.

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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Beyond Saving wrote: I am

Beyond Saving wrote:

 I am always perplexed by people who turn in one form of crazy for another. You would think that if they recognized that one faith was BS they would realize the newer one is too.

Wait for it............the response is coming, like a bad train wreck.

 

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Beyond Saving wrote: I am

Beyond Saving wrote:

 I am always perplexed by people who turn in one form of crazy for another. You would think that if they recognized that one faith was BS they would realize the newer one is too.

I was looking up some conversion statistics and I can't find anything that's not presented by one group of wackos or other.  Does anyone have any half credible data?

"Don't seek these laws to understand. Only the mad can comprehend..." -- George Cosbuc


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Ktulu wrote:Anonymouse

Ktulu wrote:

Anonymouse wrote:

http://us1.harunyahya.com/Detail/T/EDCRFV/productId/20736/THE_NUMBER_OF_PEOPLE_CONVERTING_TO_ISLAM_IN_TEXAS_IS_GROWING_BY_THE_DAY

Over here in europe it's mostly the kids from extremely religious christian families who make the switch. (Not many, though. About 10 a year in Holland, but it's growing)

What puzzles me more is when girls convert to islam. That just makes no sense to me at all.

Perhaps it is ignorance coupled with masochism.

 

I would guess - and it is only a guess - that it is the "I'm so sexy I have to hide my body to keep the men from going wild over me" mystique.  Ayaan Hirsi Ali mentions it briefly in her first book.  She went the whole body covering for awhile and said she felt mysterious and sexy under it.  Didn't seem to last long for her, however, since she was used to not wearing one and they are darn cumbersome. 

I always thought the body covering was an insult to their men.  After all, it says men have no more self control than a 2 year old in a candy store. 

As for submitting and all that stuff - I can't comment as I have never been into S&M.  Sorry to ruin anyone's fantasies about me.

 

-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.

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cj wrote:I always thought

cj wrote:

I always thought the body covering was an insult to their men.  After all, it says men have no more self control than a 2 year old in a candy store. 

http://kafirgirl.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/forcefield.jpg


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Anonymouse wrote:cj wrote:I

Anonymouse wrote:

cj wrote:

I always thought the body covering was an insult to their men.  After all, it says men have no more self control than a 2 year old in a candy store. 

http://kafirgirl.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/forcefield.jpg

 

Sigh, except it isn't, not really.

http://www.iran-bulletin.org/women/RAPE.html

 

-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.

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cj wrote:Sigh, except it

cj wrote:

Sigh, except it isn't, not really.

http://www.iran-bulletin.org/women/RAPE.html

That particular lol-muslim was made by an ex-muslima, so I'm guessing bitter irony was her intention.

http://kafirgirl.wordpress.com/

 

Anyway, that stuff you linked to, most girls who convert know that kind of thing goes on.

But they still do it.

Whatever thrill they get from the veil, it doesn't seem worth it.

 


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cj wrote:Ktulu

cj wrote:

Ktulu wrote:

Anonymouse wrote:

http://us1.harunyahya.com/Detail/T/EDCRFV/productId/20736/THE_NUMBER_OF_PEOPLE_CONVERTING_TO_ISLAM_IN_TEXAS_IS_GROWING_BY_THE_DAY

Over here in europe it's mostly the kids from extremely religious christian families who make the switch. (Not many, though. About 10 a year in Holland, but it's growing)

What puzzles me more is when girls convert to islam. That just makes no sense to me at all.

Perhaps it is ignorance coupled with masochism.

 

I would guess - and it is only a guess - that it is the "I'm so sexy I have to hide my body to keep the men from going wild over me" mystique.  Ayaan Hirsi Ali mentions it briefly in her first book.  She went the whole body covering for awhile and said she felt mysterious and sexy under it.  Didn't seem to last long for her, however, since she was used to not wearing one and they are darn cumbersome. 

I always thought the body covering was an insult to their men.  After all, it says men have no more self control than a 2 year old in a candy store. 

As for submitting and all that stuff - I can't comment as I have never been into S&M.  Sorry to ruin anyone's fantasies about me.

 

Hey CJ I dont want to sound obnoxious but could you care to take a look at my blasphemy thread again?


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Anonymouse wrote:cj

Anonymouse wrote:

cj wrote:

Sigh, except it isn't, not really.

http://www.iran-bulletin.org/women/RAPE.html

That particular lol-muslim was made by an ex-muslima, so I'm guessing bitter irony was her intention.

http://kafirgirl.wordpress.com/

 

Anyway, that stuff you linked to, most girls who convert know that kind of thing goes on.

But they still do it.

Whatever thrill they get from the veil, it doesn't seem worth it.

 

well, to be fair, not all (or even most) muslim traditions require a burqa, and even a head scarf is not as common as you think.  i met plenty of muslim men and women while travelling across  the former yugoslavia, for example, and you'd never have known them from anyone else.  they even drank.  indonesia has the largest (and ironically, least noticed) population of muslims in the world, and the burqa is not by any means a typical part of their society.

the burqa is more of a cultural than a religious thing, and there's evidence of it being worn in persia and arabia centuries before islam.  tertullian talked about (and praised) arab women wearing a face-covering 400 years before muhammad.  the quran doesn't mention it specifically, only encouraging women to wear their head coverings (not face coverings) and robes closely about them and only show their beauty to their husbands (and it mentions these garments as though they were already a part of daily life).

the face covering seems to be most common in areas of the islamic world which were heavily influenced by arab or persian culture.  since the turkic peoples of central asia basically adopted persian culture wholesale, you see it a lot in countries like afghanistan--though ironically it does not seem to have ever caught on in turkey, even under the ottomans, though turkey also pulled much of its classical culture from persia.  it's not common in the balkan, india, or indonesia.

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Anonymouse

Anonymouse wrote:

http://us1.harunyahya.com/Detail/T/EDCRFV/productId/20736/THE_NUMBER_OF_PEOPLE_CONVERTING_TO_ISLAM_IN_TEXAS_IS_GROWING_BY_THE_DAY

Over here in europe it's mostly the kids from extremely religious christian families who make the switch. (Not many, though. About 10 a year in Holland, but it's growing)

What puzzles me more is when girls convert to islam. That just makes no sense to me at all.

 

 

Yeah I dont get that either. Most american christians would not rationaly convert to islam because they saw evidence for it. They didnt reason themselves into the religion in the first place but formed a bond with it emotionally. Have you heard a christian say "hmm it looks like jesus didnt fufill the role of messiah as prophesied" and then convert to judaism wating on the messiah. There is no recovering the fact that the jesus character doesnt fufill scripture.


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Jean Chauvin wrote:Hi

Jean Chauvin wrote:

Hi Ktula,

I knew guy once who was born with no ears. You have no excuse. I shall educate you again.

A person does not leave Chrisianity. This would imply free will. If a person "leaves" Christianity, they were never a Chrisitan to being with (I John 1:19).

So it's logically impossible for a Christian to convert to Islam.

But a professing Christian who is actually a non-Christian, that is what you speak of.

You're getting sloppy, you need an education.

Respectfully,

Jean Chauvin (Jude 3).

 

 

If we dont choose to come to god then why did god make people he doesnt like?


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Just to be on spot here,

Just to be on spot here, yeah, when I was Muslim we had tons of converts coming from Christian or non-practicing backgrounds. Last I heard, women outnumber male converts 2:1. Internalized misogyny and patriarchy that Western society has still left over is my top explanation. When we, as feminists, fight for institutions to become gender neutral, there are still women who have not changed themselves, causing them to look for an institution that can provide the positive reinforcement they feel they need to be... negative.

 

And, what always struck me about the conversion stories were the extent that people exaggerate to make their conversion so much more colourful. One young woman talked about how she was so bad she skipped classes, but Islam changed all that. Whenever people change their views, every single event in their past has to be reinterpreted in light of that. As atheists we tend to be a bit more honest about such things, but the religionists go batshit crazy with it.

 

PS: That Iranian expatriate is spot on about Islamic law and women. Ayatollah Khomeini had a very notorious fatwa stating that one who marries an infant girl cannot penetrate her, but may ejaculate between her thighs. I found the original Persian/Arabic (I forget which) somewhere online.


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wingless_sephiroth

wingless_sephiroth wrote:

Just to be on spot here, yeah, when I was Muslim we had tons of converts coming from Christian or non-practicing backgrounds. Last I heard, women outnumber male converts 2:1. Internalized misogyny and patriarchy that Western society has still left over is my top explanation. When we, as feminists, fight for institutions to become gender neutral, there are still women who have not changed themselves, causing them to look for an institution that can provide the positive reinforcement they feel they need to be... negative.

 

And, what always struck me about the conversion stories were the extent that people exaggerate to make their conversion so much more colourful. One young woman talked about how she was so bad she skipped classes, but Islam changed all that. Whenever people change their views, every single event in their past has to be reinterpreted in light of that. As atheists we tend to be a bit more honest about such things, but the religionists go batshit crazy with it.

 

PS: That Iranian expatriate is spot on about Islamic law and women. Ayatollah Khomeini had a very notorious fatwa stating that one who marries an infant girl cannot penetrate her, but may ejaculate between her thighs. I found the original Persian/Arabic (I forget which) somewhere online.

I don't know if you ever caught the video of Iran's PM "ImadumbassJerk" speaking at Columbia University. The caught alot of flack for allowing that puppet dictator to speak. But what the critics missed was that the Dean gave the opening speech blasting the dictator before he spoke.

AND the best part was the question answer period when someone stated that there were gays in Iran, "He said there were not" AND THE ENTIRE AUDIENCE LAUGHED IN HIS FACE.

 

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 wingless_sephiroth

 

wingless_sephiroth wrote:
And, what always struck me about the conversion stories were the extent that people exaggerate to make their conversion so much more colourful. One young woman talked about how she was so bad she skipped classes, but Islam changed all that. Whenever people change their views, every single event in their past has to be reinterpreted in light of that. As atheists we tend to be a bit more honest about such things, but the religionists go batshit crazy with it.

 

Well, this is personal observation here but probably every conversion story which I have ever heard had something similar. The formula seems to be pretty basic. A person connects with the invisible man in the sky and gets a bunch or rules dumped on them. Then they go around telling whomever will listen to them about how bad they “used to be” but are no longer.

 

I don't think it is all that important what the specific rules are or which invisible superhero is being invoked. It is pretty much the same deal. Whatever one had going on before but which is no longer going on is touted as proof that one has changed for the better.

 

As far as how atheists handle that, well not that atheists are perfect beings either but because we tend not to heap on new rules, there is not a whole lot of material to work with. I suppose that someone who made it out from a group which was into fairly vile things could tell people that they are no longer into the things that their specific flavor of theism seemed to be into. If that be the case, then I am happy for them That being said, I would not view such as having found atheism (which is not one thing anyway) so much as them having rejected a system that was bad in the first place.

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The title to this thread

The title to this thread could easily have read "from bad to worse" or "out of the frying pan and into the fire".

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