blasphemy

ymalmsteen887
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blasphemy

I would like to know what motivated you to take the blasphemy challenge if you believe that you cant be certain that it isnt real,

Im an atheist by the way its just this is something that has given me great anxiety and to you guys it seems like no big deal.

I would also like to know your opinions on it viewing it as a myth why would they say there was an unforgivable sin what was the motivation for writing this is why it has been so hard for me to fully know that it isnt real kind of like how theists believe in the gospels because they dont make since. and how come it is only mentioned once in the bible why doesnt paul mention it couldnt have been concieved after the epistles because they would have know it contradicted the message of jesus forgives all sins.

Seriously from a secular perspective what did it mean and who possible thought of it.

I dont understand why this isnt ever brought up.


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Personally, I didn't care

Personally, I didn't care for the Blasphemy Challenge. I think it just sterotypes atheists as "God Haters". I think Atheist activists should stick to rational and positive alternatives to religion.

 

“Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.” Seneca


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EXC wrote:Personally, I

EXC wrote:

Personally, I didn't care for the Blasphemy Challenge. I think it just sterotypes atheists as "God Haters". I think Atheist activists should stick to rational and positive alternatives to religion.

 

Whats wrong with hating bad claims?

Thats like saying, "It makes us look like flat earth haters"

Of course I hate the claim that there is a magical invisible super brain with magical super powers. I would also hate it if I had a friend who was 50 years old still claiming Santa was real. I may like the person, but that doesn't mean everything they claim deserves respect just because I agree they have the right to claim it.

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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cj wrote:When I was young,

cj wrote:

When I was young, my mom always said she wanted to raise us to be independent.  Able to think for ourselves.  She may have done too good of a job with me, or maybe I was just born that way.  It is interesting to talk about what we think, and I am interested in what someone else may think, but I have never had any inclination to change my mind based on what other people think. 

So I may solicit opinions, and sometimes those opinions may be important to me, but they are not so important I am going to be upset about what someone else thinks.

My very best friend in junior high was a preacher's kid.  Her dad was preacher for the local Foursquare Gospel church.  Heard of them?  They didn't roll around in the aisle's - at least not in this church - but speaking in tongues happened every service.  And because she was my best friend, I went to every service.

How to speak in tongues.  Turn off your brain - let it just get into a meditative state.  Start saying whatever nonsense syllables you can think of - la, blah, da-da-da, etc.  Half close your eyes to keep a watch on what other people are doing to be sure they are suitably impressed, but not so open people can guess you are not really in a trance.  I tried this a couple of times and the preacher's family would be all around me praising god, blah, blah.  I noticed the old lady who was the wealthiest in the congregation and who put the most money in the collection plate, would watch me and if she thought I was getting too much attention, she would deliberately raise her hands and start bla-bla-ing herself.

Score extra points if you can work yourself up to tears and/or hysterical screaming - megapoints for fainting.  They didn't do that in your church?  It wasn't all fake?  You weren't watching close enough.  I'm not saying it was all calculated and thought out, I'm saying, people can work themselves up and do the stupidest things.

It is a kind of group hypnosis.  Mob behavior.  We all get together and yell and scream, and later we don't know why we were such stupid jackasses.  Except for penecostals, they can feel all warm and fuzzy about how they were chosen by the holy spirit.  I just can't fool myself that far.

 

Is the more fanatical person more likely to speak in tounges and fall over. My grandma assures me that she is genuine an would never make mockery of the lord.

Also what about the people who act like they are speaking through god my grandma and her friend do this more than other people. One time my aunt who backslides and doesn't g to church hardly at all prophescied to me once and said watch the music you listen to(my cousin has got a similiar prophecy before about listening to rap) and I was listening to godsmack and disturbed at the time so that really bothered me and so it really bothers me. one time my cousins husband and other family were praying in the house when I was outside and they came outside and told me god needed me in there to be prayed for and I ended up feeling like shit when they were all praying on me and saying just let it go Jarod(first time I've mentioned my name) and afterwards when nothing happened I thought god couldn't have had anything to do with it cause it was a complete faliure didn't he already know that. About my grandma she said the people in haiti might wake up after that earthquake and turn back to god, what kind of christian do you think she is based on that thinking.


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EXC wrote:Personally, I

EXC wrote:

Personally, I didn't care for the Blasphemy Challenge. I think it just sterotypes atheists as "God Haters". I think Atheist activists should stick to rational and positive alternatives to religion.

 

Actually I am talking about the fear of doing it once you leave the religion everyone keeps saying blasphemy in general but I am talking about the holy ghost and saying more than just I deny it.


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ymalmsteen887 wrote:Is the

ymalmsteen887 wrote:

Is the more fanatical person more likely to speak in tounges and fall over. My grandma assures me that she is genuine an would never make mockery of the lord.

 

I would believe your grandma sincerely believes she is genuine.  People do believe - honestly, truly, that they are speaking tongues.  But I don't believe they are, I believe they are fooling themselves.  And I wouldn't argue with your grandma.  She is entitled to believe whatever she wants.  Nod, smile, thank you for caring, grandma.  If she or someone else offers to pray for you, say "thank you for caring".

It doesn't mean you have changed your mind, only that you are being respectful.  If you are old enough to be out of high school, you are old enough to have your own personal opinions and you don't have to justify them to anyone else. 

 

ymalmsteen887 wrote:

Also what about the people who act like they are speaking through god my grandma and her friend do this more than other people. One time my aunt who backslides and doesn't g to church hardly at all prophescied to me once and said watch the music you listen to(my cousin has got a similiar prophecy before about listening to rap) and I was listening to godsmack and disturbed at the time so that really bothered me and so it really bothers me. one time my cousins husband and other family were praying in the house when I was outside and they came outside and told me god needed me in there to be prayed for and I ended up feeling like shit when they were all praying on me and saying just let it go Jarod(first time I've mentioned my name) and afterwards when nothing happened I thought god couldn't have had anything to do with it cause it was a complete faliure didn't he already know that. About my grandma she said the people in haiti might wake up after that earthquake and turn back to god, what kind of christian do you think she is based on that thinking.

 

I wonder if some people think god texts them 2-3 times a day.  (It is a joke.)

They believe it - sincerely.  They are self-justifying - they have believed this way their entire lives.  If they change their beliefs all those years of wasted time in church, all that money they gave to someone who is a charlatan (fake magician), all that effort they put into not learning, not educating themselves is wasted.  It is much harder for an older person to change.  Not because they are old, but because they have so much time, money, effort invested in the belief.  It isn't easy to admit to yourself or anyone else just how much you have wasted on an imaginary friend when you should have outgrown imaginary friends when you were about six years old.  And now you are 50-70-90 and all those years -----

Remember, what someone else believes does not have to have an impact on you.  Your relatives can pray until they are blue in the face - and the only way they will have an effect on you is if you let them.

They are your buttons - you don't have to let anyone else push them.

 

-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.

"We are entitled to our own opinions. We're not entitled to our own facts"- Al Franken

"If death isn't sweet oblivion, I will be severely disappointed" - Ruth M.


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EXC wrote:Personally, I

EXC wrote:

Personally, I didn't care for the Blasphemy Challenge.

I think it was brilliant.

EXC wrote:

I think Atheist activists should stick to rational and positive alternatives to religion.

I can multitask, no problem.

 

EXC wrote:
I think it just sterotypes atheists as "God Haters".

 

Don't care.

They should just STFU with their indignations.

It's not like we're cutting off people's heads, and burning them at the stake, or pulling out their finger nails, because they openly disagree with us.

 

They can fcuking eat me.

 

I keep asking myself " Are they just playin' stupid, or are they just plain stupid?..."

"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy" : David Brooks

" Only on the subject of God can smart people still imagine that they reap the fruits of human intelligence even as they plow them under." : Sam Harris


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What I was trying to say is

What I was trying to say is I should be able to say fuck the holy spirit with no second thoughts what so ever but it still bothers me and even spelling it out even bothers me. So I would like to know how to make my self immune to this and think of it the same way as saying fuck barney. Sorry if I am not supposed to spell out cuss words but I feel that it helps for not to be superstitous about it.


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I don't know why you are

I don't know why you are trying to go against your nature.

Your nature isn't well suited to autonomy. You're too insecure.

 

Just sayin'...

I keep asking myself " Are they just playin' stupid, or are they just plain stupid?..."

"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy" : David Brooks

" Only on the subject of God can smart people still imagine that they reap the fruits of human intelligence even as they plow them under." : Sam Harris


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redneF wrote:I don't know

redneF wrote:

I don't know why you are trying to go against your nature.

Your nature isn't well suited to autonomy. You're too insecure.

 

Just sayin'...

What do you mean?


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You're struggling too much,

You're struggling too much, with something that should be natural.

We're all born as agnostics, and atheists.

You became religious.

And you cannot let go.

You are afraid of what other people are going to think, say, or feel, about you.

That's insecurity.

I doubt you'll get over it, even if you go see a therapist.

I'm sure that nothing anyone says here, is going to make you get over it, successfully.

That's what I mean...

 

I keep asking myself " Are they just playin' stupid, or are they just plain stupid?..."

"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy" : David Brooks

" Only on the subject of God can smart people still imagine that they reap the fruits of human intelligence even as they plow them under." : Sam Harris


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redneF wrote:You're

redneF wrote:

You're struggling too much, with something that should be natural.

We're all born as agnostics, and atheists.

You became religious.

And you cannot let go.

You are afraid of what other people are going to think, say, or feel, about you.

That's insecurity.

I doubt you'll get over it, even if you go see a therapist.

I'm sure that nothing anyone says here, is going to make you get over it, successfully.

That's what I mean...

 

How do you know I am afraid of what people say or think about me? I was never the religious in the sense that upheld its teachings and would try to convert people it was more like it scared me.

Also I am the one who is trying to be a somewhat tough atheist if you were trying to convince someone that chritianity was a lie and needs to be eradicated and they said yeah but would you blaspheme the holy spirit, would you I mean I was praticaly cured from religion until I saw this video by youtube user eperce

.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fh_kbZ4l550

After that I was like wow I am not that hardcore and then I it lowered my confidence in being an atheist because I attach to much taboo to that sorta thing.

Its like when brain said fuck jesus instead of fuck the holy spirit I was thinking about responding but I thought it would upset him which is also apart of my insecurity that it will bother other people. If more atheists did stuff like that then I would not be going through this I mean people say jesus fucking christ all the time so I have built up an immunity to it as have many christians but the holy spirit it has been mostly silent from blasphemers probably cause jesus is the main focus. When people did the blasphemy challenge I am suprised that they only denied it. There are only a few atheists Ive found who have resorted to slander and not just denial.

You dont know if I will ever get over this some days I am find it just creeps up on me alot. For example if my whole entire family deconverted I would finally be ok casue I attach my fear to my grandma and aunts and uncles who are confident in the teaching of the bible. So no its not impossible for me to get over this and this site has helped me abunch more than you know cause I am the only atheist I know. I have been lurking on this website for a few months and getting famialr with different people and it feels good to be getting responses from everybody. If you had know what I had been like a year ago you would say I have mad great progress.

 


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ymalmsteen887 wrote:How do

ymalmsteen887 wrote:

How do you know I am afraid of what people say or think about me?

Because I've seen the same thing hundreds of times, and it becomes easy to predict.

ymalmsteen887 wrote:
if my whole entire family deconverted I would finally be ok casue I attach my fear to my grandma and aunts and uncles who are confident in the teaching of the bible.

See?

What I predicted, is actually true, in your case.

ymalmsteen887 wrote:

I was never the religious in the sense that upheld its teachings and would try to convert people it was more like it scared me.

ymalmsteen887 wrote:
it lowered my confidence in being an atheist because I attach to much taboo to that sorta thing.

ymalmsteen887 wrote:
which is also apart of my insecurity that it will bother other people.

See?

What I predicted, is actually true, in your case.

You're insecure.

You're afraid.

ymalmsteen887 wrote:
Also I am the one who is trying to be a somewhat tough atheist

Ummm....you don't have to be tough, to be a 'non theist'.

Just sensible.

ymalmsteen887 wrote:
If more atheists did stuff like that then I would not be going through this

If less people were religious, you would never had gotten the idea of gods in your head.

That's the part you seem to keep missing.

It's an 'idea'.

Are everyone's ideas, yours as well?

Why have your own mind, then?

Being religious, is a personal decision to make.

I'm glad no one made the decision for me, to adopt the 'idea' that those folklores were true.

Maybe your situation was different, and the parents you trusted, told you those ideas were true, and now you can't get past that.

I don't know, exactly. I can't relate.

My experiences as a child, were completely different.

 

ymalmsteen887 wrote:
I mean people say jesus fucking christ all the time so I have built up an immunity to it as have many christians but the holy spirit it has been mostly silent from blasphemers probably cause jesus is the main focus.

Ok.

Fuck God. He can fucking eat me.

Fuck Jesus. He can fucking eat me.

Fuck the Holy Spirit. He can fucking eat me.

They can all fucking eat me.

And their mothers, too.

I would rather go to hell, than give a shit, if they lived, or were thrown into a meat grinder, and fed to dogs.

 

Is that good?

Did I leave anyone out?

 

 

I keep asking myself " Are they just playin' stupid, or are they just plain stupid?..."

"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy" : David Brooks

" Only on the subject of God can smart people still imagine that they reap the fruits of human intelligence even as they plow them under." : Sam Harris


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redneF wrote:Ok.Fuck God. He

redneF wrote:

Ok.

Fuck God. He can fucking eat me.

Fuck Jesus. He can fucking eat me.

Fuck the Holy Spirit. He can fucking eat me.

They can all fucking eat me.

And their mothers, too.

I would rather go to hell, than give a shit, if they lived, or were thrown into a meat grinder, and fed to dogs.

Is that good?

Did I leave anyone out?

yes thats good now I dont feel like the only one.

You forgot muhammad.


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redneF wrote:ymalmsteen887

redneF wrote:

ymalmsteen887 wrote:

How do you know I am afraid of what people say or think about me?

Because I've seen the same thing hundreds of times, and it becomes easy to predict.

ymalmsteen887 wrote:
if my whole entire family deconverted I would finally be ok casue I attach my fear to my grandma and aunts and uncles who are confident in the teaching of the bible.

See?

What I predicted, is actually true, in your case.

ymalmsteen887 wrote:

I was never the religious in the sense that upheld its teachings and would try to convert people it was more like it scared me.

ymalmsteen887 wrote:
it lowered my confidence in being an atheist because I attach to much taboo to that sorta thing.

ymalmsteen887 wrote:
which is also apart of my insecurity that it will bother other people.

See?

What I predicted, is actually true, in your case.

You're insecure.

You're afraid.

ymalmsteen887 wrote:
Also I am the one who is trying to be a somewhat tough atheist

Ummm....you don't have to be tough, to be a 'non theist'.

Just sensible.

ymalmsteen887 wrote:
If more atheists did stuff like that then I would not be going through this

If less people were religious, you would never had gotten the idea of gods in your head.

That's the part you seem to keep missing.

It's an 'idea'.

Are everyone's ideas, yours as well?

Why have your own mind, then?

Being religious, is a personal decision to make.

I'm glad no one made the decision for me, to adopt the 'idea' that those folklores were true.

Maybe your situation was different, and the parents you trusted, told you those ideas were true, and now you can't get past that.

I don't know, exactly. I can't relate.

My experiences as a child, were completely different.

 

ymalmsteen887 wrote:
I mean people say jesus fucking christ all the time so I have built up an immunity to it as have many christians but the holy spirit it has been mostly silent from blasphemers probably cause jesus is the main focus.

Ok.

Fuck God. He can fucking eat me.

Fuck Jesus. He can fucking eat me.

Fuck the Holy Spirit. He can fucking eat me.

They can all fucking eat me.

And their mothers, too.

I would rather go to hell, than give a shit, if they lived, or were thrown into a meat grinder, and fed to dogs.

 

Is that good?

Did I leave anyone out?

 

 

You left out FSM and the 69 Mets

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ymalmsteen887 wrote:You

ymalmsteen887 wrote:

You forgot muhammad.

Who?

Doesn't matter.

He can fucking eat me too. After his mother is done.

Oh, and Allah can fucking eat me, after fucking Muhammad and his fucking bitch mother do.

 

Shall we start from the top again?

They can all fucking eat me.

 

Fuck, this is fun...

 

 

I keep asking myself " Are they just playin' stupid, or are they just plain stupid?..."

"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy" : David Brooks

" Only on the subject of God can smart people still imagine that they reap the fruits of human intelligence even as they plow them under." : Sam Harris


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I do like to remind people

I do like to remind people who believe reading this, I cant speak for all of us, but certainly most of us. This is merely a demonstration that there is nothing to fear when blaspheming fictional beings. To us saying "fuck this god, or that god" is like saying "fuck Micky Mouse or fuck Thor".

We really cant hate something that doesn't exist. We do hate that people go around claiming absurd things demanding their claims be treated with kid gloves.

You can look at it this way, "Love the claimant, not the claim".

We can like someone without liking everything that comes out of their mouth.

I hate the claim that there is a cosmic dictator who put us on this crappy home full of disease, natural disaster, crime and war. I hate that people twist their minds with this junk and falsely call it moral. But what I hate the most is that people demand that it deserves automatic respect just because they have the right to claim it.

NO,

We are all entitled to our own beliefs, but not our own facts. I can agree to the human right's aspect of the ability of humans to make any claim they want. I do not agree that ANY CLAIM on ANY subject deserves taboo status.

Until a claim can be independently tested and falsified, it is merely a claim.

Popularity of a claim doesn't make it true, otherwise the once popular belief that the earth was flat would be true.

Popularity of tradition doesn't make something true, otherwise the sun really is a god because the Egyptians believed for 3,000 years that the sun was a god.

We say "fuck god" as a demonstration that life will continue with or without this belief. We don't need to believe that Thor makes lighting, and I don't see a need for humans to cling to their current popular myths either.

All god beliefs will die when our species goes extinct because there will be no future generation to pass the myth down to. God belief is nothing but a superstition gap answer created by mundane human flaw of projecting human qualities on the world around them. It is nothing but mere wishful thinking.

Yes, it is a slap in your face, but not out of hate. You could look at it as a bucket of ice cold water being splashed on your face in order to wake you up out of your delusion.

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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Well, the whole thing is a

Well, the whole thing is a joke.

Terrorizing people with rumours that a god will mess you up after your life is over, is like saying that he'll beat you up after school.

Sounds like a pussy to me.

Why not do it in front of everyone, while I'm still on earth?

Come out, and show everyone what a fucking tough guy you are.

What's his problem anyway?

Why so bitter?

This clown is supposed to be the man!

 

The bottom line is, they (the priests) are not telling you that tripe so that you'll behave the way a god wants you to, it's so that you'll behave the way they scripted it.

It's all a script, and we're supposed to be the pawns. 

I keep asking myself " Are they just playin' stupid, or are they just plain stupid?..."

"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy" : David Brooks

" Only on the subject of God can smart people still imagine that they reap the fruits of human intelligence even as they plow them under." : Sam Harris


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redneF wrote:America is not

redneF wrote:

America is not "One Nation Under God".

American law does not follow the bible.

Nor do most of it's citizens.

Slavery is illegal.

Evolution is taught in American schools, not the accounts of Genesis.

Homosexuality is not condemned.

Premarital sex is not condemned.

Sodomy is not condemned.

Abortion is not condemned.

Drunkenness is not condemned.

Heresy is not condemned.

Rejecting gods are not condemned.

Adopting another faith is not condemned.

Blasphemy is not condemned.

Making graven images is not condemned.

We need not honour our mother and father.

Coveting is not condemned.

Sunday is not a national holy day.

Adultery is not condemned.

 

I'm pretty sure those are correct.

 

 

Certainly the Constitution which our laws are based on are not bible based. But our historical Christian majority, since the ink dried on it, has tried everything within it's power DESPITE "No Religious Test" to piss on a bush like a lion marking it's territory.

We have had HUMANS write bible based laws which later generations rightfully struck down because they violate the Constitution.

Having words written on paper doesn't mean the people reading them will do the right thing and keep it neutral. Our species did evolve to attempt to become the alpha male. The Constitution to me at least, is the first attempt at recognizing that any type of monopoly is bad. And it was written by a diverse group of people who valued common law over common dogma.

It just pisses off believers that we keep reminding them that there is no entitlement to Christianity to hog the drivers seat.

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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US laws, christianity, and put in practice

The Treaty of Tripoli, approved unanimously by Congress in 1797 which  composed of an essential "Who's Who" of those widely held to be the "Fathers of Our Country" in the US, unequivocally stated "As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion".  That means just what it says.

However, the US is, and always has been, a Christian nation because the plurality of the people consider themselves to be Christian, to whatever degree. The State though is non-theistic. The majority of people do not follow the Bible, just as the majority of Christians don't follow it, and none follow all of it. The laws of the State are voted into existence, hopefully based on peoples' sense of right and wrong, which is a function of our being primates, and secondarily laws are ratified which meet the wants or needs of some corporation or wealthy individuals.

The "Under God" got added to the Pledge of Allegiance during the 1950s, as part of the reaction to defend against "godless communists".

Homosexuality is condemned in many communities. There are still laws against homosexuality. The Supreme Court made most of those laws unenforcable with Lawrence vs. Texas in 2003. Most states do not allow same-sex marriages to be performed in their state, and will not recognize one performed in some other state. In Oklahoma, the parties of a same-sex marriage are subject to arrest, even if they are only visiting the state or passing through. So much for states recognizing one another's vital statistics! Of course, there are other issues where a couple (with one very young partner) being legally married in one state, entering another state, and having the elder spouse arrested for statutory rape (of their legal spouse, who that state does not recognize as being over the age of consent). Different matter though.

Abortion is legal in the US, but some states make it nearly impossible to get within their state.

Drunkenness alone is no longer condemned, since "drunk and disorderly" laws have been deemed unconstitutional. Still, drunkenness is heartily condemned if one gets behind the wheel of an automobile while drunk.

Evolution is taught in most schools. The Christian Right though, is trying to replace it with "Intelligent Design", claiming that it's as "scientific" as evolution, which is of course laughable. They are making inroads in some states and some communities, and with the christian fundamentalist homeschool movement. Where it's not, the whole topic of science education at an elementary or secondary level is being turned into a religious debate. Some science teachers are leaving the field because they just want to teach, not debate endlessly. This is such a problem that many university programs are having to put in remedial courses to bring their students up on just what IS in science (and what is not). What a disgrace! This is not only costing us our technological edge, but national security, and it won't be that much longer until the US is relegated to another quaint theocratic state that is very warlike.

There are "blue laws" in some communities which restrict what sort of businesses may or may not operate on Sunday. Essentially, churches and emergency services, or things required for life or convenience - like hospitals and utility companies.

Adultery is not illegal, but it can make for a nasty divorce settlement against the adulterer/adultress. Bigamy is illegal throughout the united states. It is widely held to be "biblically" mandated as such.

 

I can just hope that the "silent majority", many of whom consider themselves "Christian" although they go to church for weddings, funerals, and Christmas every 3rd year, can eventually stand up to this pro-theocratic nonsense that a very vocal and politically active minority are trying to shove through, and keep the US in the 21st century.

How's my proselytizing? Call 1-800-FANATIC

Beth


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Many years ago, I had an SO

Many years ago, I had an SO who was ridiculing the Catholic practice of saying the Rosary. I was recently ex-Catholic at the time. He was saying it as "To Hell with Mary, full of ....". I was aghast and shocked by it. Although I didn't believe in Catholic or Christian teachings anymore, and hadn't even held them that long, it really bothered me at the time. He asked me why it bothered me since I no longer believed in any of those religious figures or their power.

I think about that now, decades later, and can see what a knee-jerk reaction it was. I didn't believe it, but I was not yet "sure" in my unbelief of those things. Some people who I liked and trusted had assured me they were real, and some authorities whom I had read assured me of the miraculous things that can happen as a result. It's lost its power over me, but it took awhile.

I could see my now-SO look kind of shocked when I stated that I denied the Holy Spirit. But, he thought it over, and realized that he too, had a knee-jerk reaction to something he'd believed was wrong in the past, and continued to believe a part of it. He soon joined me in doing it in front of a fundie.

Hanging onto residual effects of beliefs happens to all of us, and it can take years or a lifetime to eradicate them all.

Beth

How's my proselytizing? Call 1-800-FANATIC

Beth


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BethK wrote:Hanging onto

BethK wrote:

Hanging onto residual effects of beliefs happens to all of us, and it can take years or a lifetime to eradicate them all.

An ounce of prevention, is worth a pound of cure...

I keep asking myself " Are they just playin' stupid, or are they just plain stupid?..."

"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy" : David Brooks

" Only on the subject of God can smart people still imagine that they reap the fruits of human intelligence even as they plow them under." : Sam Harris


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BethK wrote:Many years ago,

BethK wrote:

Many years ago, I had an SO who was ridiculing the Catholic practice of saying the Rosary. I was recently ex-Catholic at the time. He was saying it as "To Hell with Mary, full of ....". I was aghast and shocked by it. Although I didn't believe in Catholic or Christian teachings anymore, and hadn't even held them that long, it really bothered me at the time. He asked me why it bothered me since I no longer believed in any of those religious figures or their power.

I think about that now, decades later, and can see what a knee-jerk reaction it was. I didn't believe it, but I was not yet "sure" in my unbelief of those things. Some people who I liked and trusted had assured me they were real, and some authorities whom I had read assured me of the miraculous things that can happen as a result. It's lost its power over me, but it took awhile.

I could see my now-SO look kind of shocked when I stated that I denied the Holy Spirit. But, he thought it over, and realized that he too, had a knee-jerk reaction to something he'd believed was wrong in the past, and continued to believe a part of it. He soon joined me in doing it in front of a fundie.

Hanging onto residual effects of beliefs happens to all of us, and it can take years or a lifetime to eradicate them all.

Beth

Its not so much as saying I deny the holy spirit but saying profane things about it and cursing it. Like fuck the holy spirit. Have you seen youtube user eperce video blasphemy of the holy spirit. I could say I deny the holy spirit all day even to christians but the other stuff is a little more difficult and trying to become desensitised to it.


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Still looking for a mommy,

Still looking for a mommy, to help you through life, huh?...


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redneF wrote:BethK

redneF wrote:

BethK wrote:

Hanging onto residual effects of beliefs happens to all of us, and it can take years or a lifetime to eradicate them all.

An ounce of prevention, is worth a pound of cure...

An ounce of utopias is worth a lifetime of pain.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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Brian37 wrote:redneF

Brian37 wrote:

redneF wrote:

BethK wrote:

Hanging onto residual effects of beliefs happens to all of us, and it can take years or a lifetime to eradicate them all.

An ounce of prevention, is worth a pound of cure...

An ounce of utopias is worth a lifetime of pain.

What do you mean?


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ymalmsteen887 wrote:Its not

ymalmsteen887 wrote:
Its not so much as saying I deny the holy spirit but saying profane things about it and cursing it. Like fuck the holy spirit. Have you seen youtube user eperce video blasphemy of the holy spirit. I could say I deny the holy spirit all day even to christians but the other stuff is a little more difficult and trying to become desensitised to it.

I actually don't like using those words either. But, it's not because I respect the Holy Spirit, at all, but because I don't like throwing those types of words around. I have used curse words on this forum before, but, you know, I feel like you got to use them sparingly so they hold more weight. 

 

Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare


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butterbattle

butterbattle wrote:

ymalmsteen887 wrote:
Its not so much as saying I deny the holy spirit but saying profane things about it and cursing it. Like fuck the holy spirit. Have you seen youtube user eperce video blasphemy of the holy spirit. I could say I deny the holy spirit all day even to christians but the other stuff is a little more difficult and trying to become desensitised to it.

I actually don't like using those words either. But, it's not because I respect the Holy Spirit, at all, but because I don't like throwing those types of words around. I have used curse words on this forum before, but, you know, I feel like you got to use them sparingly so they hold more weight. 

 

Well I agree with you that I don't want that to be my entire character but the saying "profanity is for the simple mind that wants to express itself" I dont agree with cause profanity is a human stigma that shouldnt exist. I would like to know how those things developed in our evolution. I always laugh when someone says "fuck" and my sister is like watch your mouth. Its just a word that society has put such a taboo on that alot of my family says its a sin even though they have never shown a bible verse saying it is.


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ymalmsteen887 wrote:Well I

ymalmsteen887 wrote:
Well I agree with you that I don't want that to be my entire character but the saying "profanity is for the simple mind that wants to express itself" I dont agree with cause profanity is a human stigma that shouldnt exist. I would like to know how those things developed in our evolution. I always laugh when someone says "fuck" and my sister is like watch your mouth.

I completely agree. The word is just a unit of communication. We make a sound with our mouths, and we match that to something in writing; we give it a meaning. Then, there are a few words, in essentially every language, that are arbitrarily labeled as offensive i.e. it is offensive because we decided that it is. The average person seems to forget that the word itself is nothing. The word itself does not have "meaning." It is correlated to a meaning that we associate with it. 

Some words, like "nigger," are so stigmatized that people are genuinely afraid to use them. When I was in elementary school, I accidentally said it by mispronouncing Niger when looking at a map of Africa. It is quite sad that adults cannot use this word, but that little kids can say it in their innocence and then, become confused when they're told that they said something bad. It's good to be opposed to racism, of course, but being afraid of the word is irrational.

ymalmsteen887 wrote:
Its just a word that society has put such a taboo on that alot of my family says its a sin even though they have never shown a bible verse saying it is.

Lol. Well, considering that the Bible wasn't written in English and "fuck" didn't exist yet, it's kind of hard to make a case for that specific word. The Bible might condemn profanity in general though. 

 

Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare


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Hey I just ran into my

Hey I just ran into my grandma, aunt , and cousin out in town and they didn't lay hands on me cause they suspected I had a demon. So that was a relief but when I was with them I was shaking the whole time thinking my aunt was going to say you should come to church. If she had said that I would have wanted to say something along the lines of I dont believe that stuff is real but I probably would have said yeah and thats it. I think this is the reason why religion still survives cause people dont speak up. I mean just the thought =of telling them this makes me think I am a bad person I have yet to look at them as delusional people who havent a clue whats going.

Before a certain someone posts on here when I say shaking I jsut mean I had butterflies and was extremely withheld back from having confidence in saying somthing like religion is bullshit. I have long way to go before I can risk ostracizing myself plus if I do this I need to be prepared that they will want to try to convince me its real so that will be an oppurtunity to show them why it isnt real.

Basically my grandma was real nice to me and it just broke my heart(I never use language like that I just couldnt think of anything esle to say) thinking I could try to take down the sanction of religion. So I need to stop getting my confidence from the fact that they are still ok with me cause I haven't said anything about my unbelief(my grandma knows but everyone else I think still deson know)

If you are confused my grandma knows I dont believe but she is probable praying hoping I come back and has no idea I want to take down religion as a whole and think it is evil.

I know this comment is strange just wanted to know what everyone thought.

I realize I am running the risk of getting attacked by rednef.


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ymalmsteen887 wrote:I

ymalmsteen887 wrote:

I realize I am running the risk of getting attacked by rednef.

You could always pray that doesn't happen...

I keep asking myself " Are they just playin' stupid, or are they just plain stupid?..."

"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy" : David Brooks

" Only on the subject of God can smart people still imagine that they reap the fruits of human intelligence even as they plow them under." : Sam Harris


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butterbattle

butterbattle wrote:

ymalmsteen887 wrote:
Well I agree with you that I don't want that to be my entire character but the saying "profanity is for the simple mind that wants to express itself" I dont agree with cause profanity is a human stigma that shouldnt exist. I would like to know how those things developed in our evolution. I always laugh when someone says "fuck" and my sister is like watch your mouth.

I completely agree. The word is just a unit of communication. We make a sound with our mouths, and we match that to something in writing; we give it a meaning. Then, there are a few words, in essentially every language, that are arbitrarily labeled as offensive i.e. it is offensive because we decided that it is. The average person seems to forget that the word itself is nothing. The word itself does not have "meaning." It is correlated to a meaning that we associate with it. 

Some words, like "nigger," are so stigmatized that people are genuinely afraid to use them. When I was in elementary school, I accidentally said it by mispronouncing Niger when looking at a map of Africa. It is quite sad that adults cannot use this word, but that little kids can say it in their innocence and then, become confused when they're told that they said something bad. It's good to be opposed to racism, of course, but being afraid of the word is irrational.

ymalmsteen887 wrote:
Its just a word that society has put such a taboo on that alot of my family says its a sin even though they have never shown a bible verse saying it is.

Lol. Well, considering that the Bible wasn't written in English and "fuck" didn't exist yet, it's kind of hard to make a case for that specific word. The Bible might condemn profanity in general though. 

 

 

I think it is very Pavlovian.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_conditioning

 

I think that sums the reality of this entire continuing idea about ex-theists feeling bad even after they renounce their theism.  I don't know why people are confused about this issue when it is so elegantly explained by taking away the theism question and looking at it in a stripped down conditioning way.

It isn't about religion, it could be about *anything* and people would behave in the same way.  Language use, sports teams, politics, religion, nudity, food preference, etc....It's all the same.  I'm not sure why, red for example, is surprised by this behavior tied to religion but (I assume) is not surprised by the average American's aversion to eating cat but not cow, or the typical aversion to the word Communist.  An atheist feeling weird/guilty/whatever about saying fuck off to the holy ghost is the same thing.

Once a 'pathway' is laid down in our brain, it takes work to make that pathway fade and sometimes it never will completely.

Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.


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mellestad wrote:butterbattle

mellestad wrote:

butterbattle wrote:

ymalmsteen887 wrote:
Well I agree with you that I don't want that to be my entire character but the saying "profanity is for the simple mind that wants to express itself" I dont agree with cause profanity is a human stigma that shouldnt exist. I would like to know how those things developed in our evolution. I always laugh when someone says "fuck" and my sister is like watch your mouth.

I completely agree. The word is just a unit of communication. We make a sound with our mouths, and we match that to something in writing; we give it a meaning. Then, there are a few words, in essentially every language, that are arbitrarily labeled as offensive i.e. it is offensive because we decided that it is. The average person seems to forget that the word itself is nothing. The word itself does not have "meaning." It is correlated to a meaning that we associate with it. 

Some words, like "nigger," are so stigmatized that people are genuinely afraid to use them. When I was in elementary school, I accidentally said it by mispronouncing Niger when looking at a map of Africa. It is quite sad that adults cannot use this word, but that little kids can say it in their innocence and then, become confused when they're told that they said something bad. It's good to be opposed to racism, of course, but being afraid of the word is irrational.

ymalmsteen887 wrote:
Its just a word that society has put such a taboo on that alot of my family says its a sin even though they have never shown a bible verse saying it is.

Lol. Well, considering that the Bible wasn't written in English and "fuck" didn't exist yet, it's kind of hard to make a case for that specific word. The Bible might condemn profanity in general though. 

 

 

I think it is very Pavlovian.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_conditioning

 

I think that sums the reality of this entire continuing idea about ex-theists feeling bad even after they renounce their theism.  I don't know why people are confused about this issue when it is so elegantly explained by taking away the theism question and looking at it in a stripped down conditioning way.

It isn't about religion, it could be about *anything* and people would behave in the same way.  Language use, sports teams, politics, religion, nudity, food preference, etc....It's all the same.  I'm not sure why, red for example, is surprised by this behavior tied to religion but (I assume) is not surprised by the average American's aversion to eating cat but not cow, or the typical aversion to the word Communist.  An atheist feeling weird/guilty/whatever about saying fuck off to the holy ghost is the same thing.

Once a 'pathway' is laid down in our brain, it takes work to make that pathway fade and sometimes it never will completely.

After the month or two I said I have gotten used to it I do think it is possible to diminish it completely though given how much progress I have made.


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redneF wrote:Ok.Fuck God. He

redneF wrote:

Ok.

Fuck God. He can fucking eat me.

Fuck Jesus. He can fucking eat me.

Fuck the Holy Spirit. He can fucking eat me.

They can all fucking eat me.

And their mothers, too.

I would rather go to hell, than give a shit, if they lived, or were thrown into a meat grinder, and fed to dogs.

 

Is that good?

Did I leave anyone out?

 

You left out Cthulhu, Yog-Sothoth and so forth  - Now if they existed, they would fucking eat you.

<i/>Supposedly, there was a teen-aged girl named Mary who did fuck the Holy Spirit - even though she wasn't to the age of consent in most jurisdictions, so he therefore belongs on the Sex Offender Registry. He won't even pay his child support! I guess that's why believers feel they have to give the child of this teenaged mother and the Holy Spirit so much money to support them.

 

 

 

How's my proselytizing? Call 1-800-FANATIC

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BethK wrote:redneF

BethK wrote:

redneF wrote:

Ok.

Fuck God. He can fucking eat me.

Fuck Jesus. He can fucking eat me.

Fuck the Holy Spirit. He can fucking eat me.

They can all fucking eat me.

And their mothers, too.

I would rather go to hell, than give a shit, if they lived, or were thrown into a meat grinder, and fed to dogs.

 

Is that good?

Did I leave anyone out?

 

You left out Cthulhu, Yog-Sothoth and so forth  - Now if they existed, they would fucking eat you.

<i/>Supposedly, there was a teen-aged girl named Mary who did fuck the Holy Spirit - even though she wasn't to the age of consent in most jurisdictions, so he therefore belongs on the Sex Offender Registry. He won't even pay his child support! I guess that's why believers feel they have to give the child of this teenaged mother and the Holy Spirit so much money to support them.

 

 

 

Yeah its that kind of stuff that makes me uneasy I should just laugh at it no problem I guess it will take some conditioning. I wont stop until I can say that stuff without feeling nervous or like I have to throw up. I appreiciate the response.


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I urge you to not initiate a

I urge you to not initiate a talk about it with your family members until you are really comfortable with it. If they ask you questions, just try to be really polite and honest.

ymalmsteen887 wrote:
Yeah its that kind of stuff that makes me uneasy I should just laugh at it no problem I guess it will take some conditioning.

Well.....deconditioning. I don't want anyone to be "conditioned" to be an atheist.

Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare


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butterbattle wrote:I urge

butterbattle wrote:

I urge you to not initiate a talk about it with your family members until you are really comfortable with it. If they ask you questions, just try to be really polite and honest.

ymalmsteen887 wrote:
Yeah its that kind of stuff that makes me uneasy I should just laugh at it no problem I guess it will take some conditioning.

Well.....deconditioning. I don't want anyone to be "conditioned" to be an atheist.

What do you not want me to talk about it with my family?

I meant conditioned to not react to blasphemy like its a bad thing.


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ymalmsteen887 wrote:What do

ymalmsteen887 wrote:
What do you not want me to talk about it with my family?

Well, maybe I said that prematurely. I don't know your family.

A lot of times, when people become atheist in a religious environment, they want to come out and talk about it very openly with the people they know, particularly with their family. But, in my opinion, that's often not a good idea because their family and friends will usually not be receptive. Conversations will become too emotional, especially if the person very recently became an atheist, and their relationships will suffer. It's just practical, I think, to be more careful....

 

Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare


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butterbattle

butterbattle wrote:

ymalmsteen887 wrote:
What do you not want me to talk about it with my family?

Well, maybe I said that prematurely. I don't know your family.

A lot of times, when people become atheist in a religious environment, they want to come out and talk about it very openly with the people they know, particularly with their family. But, in my opinion, that's often not a good idea because their family and friends will usually not be receptive. Conversations will become too emotional, especially if the person very recently became an atheist, and their relationships will suffer. It's just practical, I think, to be more careful....

 

Well my grandma took it well and my sister cried but got over it and my mom and dad just thought it was a phase and my mom has gotten over it after thinking its not a phase.

But I am talking about my entire family and church members and anyone I encounter. I have to start somewhere right or I will never make any progress.


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butterbattle

butterbattle wrote:

ymalmsteen887 wrote:
What do you not want me to talk about it with my family?

Well, maybe I said that prematurely. I don't know your family.

A lot of times, when people become atheist in a religious environment, they want to come out and talk about it very openly with the people they know, particularly with their family. But, in my opinion, that's often not a good idea because their family and friends will usually not be receptive. Conversations will become too emotional, especially if the person very recently became an atheist, and their relationships will suffer. It's just practical, I think, to be more careful....

 

Well my grandma took it well and my sister cried but got over it and my mom and dad just thought it was a phase and my mom has gotten over it after thinking its not a phase.

But I am talking about my entire family and church members and anyone I encounter. I have to start somewhere right or I will never make any progress.


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Hi ymalm

 

You've used the word 'fuck' and the words 'holy spirit' in the same post. I think that's positive. You'll be an atheist when you're too bored to care whose fantasy head man caricature does what.   

 

 

 

"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck


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Not following you?

Not following you?


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I guess your family is not

I guess your family is not too bad then. There are families and communities that will shun and exile people for doing what you've done.

Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare


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butterbattle wrote:I guess

butterbattle wrote:

I guess your family is not too bad then. There are families and communities that will shun and exile people for doing what you've done.

What did I do the blasphemy stuff I have only done by myself and revealed on here.


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An atheist does not believe in god,

ymalmsteen887 wrote:

Not following you?

 

is not afraid of god, is not worrying about blasphemy, does not care about holy ghosts, is bored of god. Don't worry - you'll know when you get to the point the idea of god is flat out stupid and you are sick of hearing about it.

An atheist who worries about getting into trouble with god is still in transition.

"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck


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Atheistextremist

Atheistextremist wrote:

ymalmsteen887 wrote:

Not following you?

 

is not afraid of god, is not worrying about blasphemy, does not care about holy ghosts, is bored of god. Don't worry - you'll know when you get to the point the idea of god is flat out stupid and you are sick of hearing about it.

An atheist who worries about getting into trouble with god is still in transition.

One of the hardest things I have saying is "I fucked the holy spirit" even typing that was awkward. If I could say this in front of a christian who asked me to blaspheme the holy spook I mean ghost without hesitation I think by then I would be completely num to it.


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ymalmsteen887 wrote:One of

ymalmsteen887 wrote:

One of the hardest things I have saying is "I fucked the holy spirit" even typing that was awkward. If I could say this in front of a christian who asked me to blaspheme the holy spook I mean ghost without hesitation I think by then I would be completely num to it.

 

I couldn't say that out loud - I'd be laughing so hard I couldn't catch my breath.

 

-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.

"We are entitled to our own opinions. We're not entitled to our own facts"- Al Franken

"If death isn't sweet oblivion, I will be severely disappointed" - Ruth M.


ymalmsteen887
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I have improved quite abit

I have improved quite abit and don't worry about the blasphemy anymore at least its not paralyaing anymore but every since getting on these forums and getting confidence I have been thinking about making life be the way I want it to and I have had some crazy intense dreams lately and they are really giving me a hard time is this normal when going through changes in perspective. One time I was dozing off and shut my eyes for a second and a bird came flying at me and I tried to dodge it and woke back up and was freaked out about it for awhile cause it was so vivid and just the other night I had what felt like a lucid dream I had some control over what I was doing.

I have heard fear is just another word for lack of knowledge so if I understood how dreams worked and how the imagery is generated I would think less about it but I have had a dream where I was looking at a cd case that was called hell and the album booklet had a girl with pale skin and she was kinda pretty but was in a depressing place and the back of the case said track 1 jesus drug on it but before that happened I was with some friends going to see transformers 3 which is weird cause I dont think about those movies so any info on how that works would be appreciated. I also wanted to know if anyone else has had intense dreams from changing your world view.


mellestad
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Well, you often dream about

Well, you often dream about things that are on your mind, so to speak.  If this stuff is taking a lot of your waking mental cycles I'm not surprised you dream about them.

 

If you're dozing off when you close your eyes though you probably need to focus on getting a solid 8-9 hours of sleep every night.  Try to do that for a week or two and see how your mental state is with decent rest.

 

Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.


Jeffrick
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Yes.

 

 

 

                My world view has not changed much since childhood but  I did go through intense and eratic dreams in the early 80's I was going through a marrige break up at the time. My personal world was turning upside down and covered every emotion you can name. All of this certainly effected my dreams, meny nights I couldn't sleep. 

 

 

                 The good news is that you do get over it. I am middle age and comfortable now and married for 23 years to Sally. Things are going well.

"Very funny Scotty; now beam down our clothes."

VEGETARIAN: Ancient Hindu word for "lousy hunter"

If man was formed from dirt, why is there still dirt?


ymalmsteen887
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Jeffrick

Jeffrick wrote:

 

 

 

                My world view has not changed much since childhood but  I did go through intense and eratic dreams in the early 80's I was going through a marrige break up at the time. My personal world was turning upside down and covered every emotion you can name. All of this certainly effected my dreams, meny nights I couldn't sleep. 

 

 

                 The good news is that you do get over it. I am middle age and comfortable now and married for 23 years to Sally. Things are going well.

Well even when I was a christian I was terrified of scary movies like the supernatural ones. I am thinking to get over it I am giong to have to expose myself to alot of disturbing imagery in order to get over it. But I fear that I cold cause my mind to become overwhlemed and develop paronia what do you think. Is that the best method to go about it or is that dangerous.

Someone said I am having these dreams becuase I am worrying about this stuff and trying to suppress the thoughts.