Galen and Celcus accounts of Jesus

AnarchyMell
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Galen and Celcus accounts of Jesus

How accurate are they?  Are there any sources questioning their authority?


Jeffrick
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????????????

 

 

 

             Do you  have the names right?    Galen lived in the second and third centurys C.E. {129 to 199/217 C.E.} he wrote mostly on medicine and other sciences.  His very few tracts on Jesus & christianity where of course based on 2 century's  after the "facts".  Ergo no more nor less acurate then any other church writer of his era.   As for Celcus,  did you mean Celcius?   Anders Celcius lived in the 18th century. He was a scientist and any tract he may have written  on Jesus was 1700+ years out of date.

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These are the names a friend

These are the names a friend of mine gave me.  Here is the link he provided.

 

Galen (c.150; De pulsuum differentiis 2.4; 3.3)


Celsus (True Discourse, c.170).
http://www.doxa.ws/Jesus_pages/HistJesus7.html

 

Anarchism is the only philosophy which brings to man the consciousness of himself; which maintains that God, the State, and society are non-existent, that their promises are null and void, since they can be fulfilled only through man's subordination. Anarchism is therefore the teacher of the unity of life; not merely in nature, but in man.

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AnarchyMell wrote:These are

AnarchyMell wrote:

These are the names a friend of mine gave me.  Here is the link he provided.

 

Galen (c.150; De pulsuum differentiis 2.4; 3.3)


Celsus (True Discourse, c.170).
http://www.doxa.ws/Jesus_pages/HistJesus7.html

 

 

My source for information on the actual date and contents of the actual documents is http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/

For these two,

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/galen.html

Quote:

"If I had in mind people who taught their pupils in the same way as the followers of Moses and Christ teach theirs--for they order them to accept everything on faith--I should not have given you a definition."

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/celsus.html

Quote:

Celsus ridiculed Christians because they advocated blind faith instead of reason.

 

So what was the point?  That some Romans thought blind faith was not productive?

-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.

"We are entitled to our own opinions. We're not entitled to our own facts"- Al Franken

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He thinks they are proof

He thinks they are proof that jesus existed.  I had never seen them before and I wnted to get other opinions of them.

Anarchism is the only philosophy which brings to man the consciousness of himself; which maintains that God, the State, and society are non-existent, that their promises are null and void, since they can be fulfilled only through man's subordination. Anarchism is therefore the teacher of the unity of life; not merely in nature, but in man.

Emma Goldman


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AnarchyMell wrote:He thinks

AnarchyMell wrote:

He thinks they are proof that jesus existed.  I had never seen them before and I wnted to get other opinions of them.

Oh the " there had to be a Jesus Christ because people wrote about his followers" thing.
 

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
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Well, it was part of there

Well, it was part of there is more evidence for the existence of jesus than of caesar.

He says there are 8 writings about jesus and all he could find about caesar was plutarch, suetonius and Appianus.  And the earliest manuscripts we have of them are 900 ad.  Plus he doesnt accept Caesars writing because the earliest manuscripts we have of them are 1000 ad.

 

Anarchism is the only philosophy which brings to man the consciousness of himself; which maintains that God, the State, and society are non-existent, that their promises are null and void, since they can be fulfilled only through man's subordination. Anarchism is therefore the teacher of the unity of life; not merely in nature, but in man.

Emma Goldman


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Celcus ... Celsus..

AnarchyMell wrote:

These are the names a friend of mine gave me.  Here is the link he provided.

 

Galen (c.150; De pulsuum differentiis 2.4; 3.3)


Celsus (True Discourse, c.170).
http://www.doxa.ws/Jesus_pages/HistJesus7.html

 

 

                  Thanks for correcting the spelling.   I can respond to the link you made.  J.P.Holding commenting on Harris analysis of earlier Greek writing {talk about hearsay evidence}  When a Greek speaking Roman is talking about the head agitator as the Christos/Christus do NOT think of religion,  DO think in terms of sociology.   A Greek useing the term CHRISTOS { the annointed one} was refering to the head speaker before a mob, i.e. the head/named/annointed spokesman for the protest.   This makes perfect sense when you realize a non-Jew/non-Christian is useing the term Christos/christus.

"Very funny Scotty; now beam down our clothes."

VEGETARIAN: Ancient Hindu word for "lousy hunter"

If man was formed from dirt, why is there still dirt?


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Thanks everyone!Jeffrick, I

Thanks everyone!

Jeffrick, I like your vegetarian quote!


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Okay...!!??

 

 

 

                  Thanx;    Sorry about the quote function in #7.  I hope you understand the response.

"Very funny Scotty; now beam down our clothes."

VEGETARIAN: Ancient Hindu word for "lousy hunter"

If man was formed from dirt, why is there still dirt?


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Jeffrick wrote:Thanx;   

Jeffrick wrote:
Thanx;    Sorry about the quote function in #7.  I hope you understand the response.

 

fixxored.

 

And yah, those two guys were born rather late to be making any claim other than the fact that there were christian back then.

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I like your vegetarian quote, too

We have a friend who was raised in Singapore but is of East Indian parentage and culture.  When we repeated your quote to her, she about coughed a lung out.  BTW, she isn't vegetarian.

-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.

"We are entitled to our own opinions. We're not entitled to our own facts"- Al Franken

"If death isn't sweet oblivion, I will be severely disappointed" - Ruth M.


Atheistextremist
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Mell

 

I run into this argument a lot - especially from my ancient text loving elder brother - but fundamentally those who argue this case are attempting to prove the existence on earth of the son of god using the literary historical method. Personally, I struggle with this argument. There are virtually no comtemporary accounts of Jesus outside the NT and those that exist are dubious and/or rank forgery. While I don't think jesus existed, even if some one did exist called jesus these writings don't prove his divinity.

Caesar was a roman leader and the proof required for his existence is at a whole different level from what you'd want for the son of god. Now if jesus had gone to egypt and by way of a miracle stood the great pyramids on their points, where they stood to this day, then I'd be impressed. Something I dislike about this way of arguing from the god people is that they are prepared to interpret dubious texts with great energy yet refuse to read the comparatively inviolate historical record contained in sedimentary rocks.

"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck


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Atheistextremist wrote: I

Atheistextremist wrote:

 

I run into this argument a lot - especially from my ancient text loving elder brother - but fundamentally those who argue this case are attempting to prove the existence on earth of the son of god using the literary historical method. Personally, I struggle with this argument. There are virtually no comtemporary accounts of Jesus outside the NT and those that exist are dubious and/or rank forgery. While I don't think jesus existed, even if some one did exist called jesus these writings don't prove his divinity.

Caesar was a roman leader and the proof required for his existence is at a whole different level from what you'd want for the son of god. Now if jesus had gone to egypt and by way of a miracle stood the great pyramids on their points, where they stood to this day, then I'd be impressed. Something I dislike about this way of arguing from the god people is that they are prepared to interpret dubious texts with great energy yet refuse to read the comparatively inviolate historical record contained in sedimentary rocks.

 

Well put!  Thanks

Anarchism is the only philosophy which brings to man the consciousness of himself; which maintains that God, the State, and society are non-existent, that their promises are null and void, since they can be fulfilled only through man's subordination. Anarchism is therefore the teacher of the unity of life; not merely in nature, but in man.

Emma Goldman