Pope wants meeting with atheists.........He he he.....

Brian37
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Pope wants meeting with atheists.........He he he.....

Yea thats sooo cute, thats like kid with the crayons throwing a tantrum, then when called on it asks for ice cream and wants to sit at the adult table.

Sure, we'll talk to you. But we won't lie to you to placate your emotions, nor will we treat you special above any other superstition.

I bet he thinks we forgot about Galileo or church complicity during WW2. Not to mention this pesky problem with children.

http://www.catholic.net/index.php?option=zenit&id=28904

How about this for a start, stop blaming media or atheists for what your club covered up?

 

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vatican wrote:Religion

vatican wrote:
Religion addresses "the fundamental answers" to the questions that "all men have about life, death, pain, justice and truth," he affirmed.

 

If only I'd know that before I became an atheist!

 

I wonder if the higher up Catholics would be good at debating atheists, or if apologetics is left to specific parts of the church?

 

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mellestad wrote:vatican

mellestad wrote:

vatican wrote:
Religion addresses "the fundamental answers" to the questions that "all men have about life, death, pain, justice and truth," he affirmed.

 

If only I'd know that before I became an atheist!

 

I wonder if the higher up Catholics would be good at debating atheists, or if apologetics is left to specific parts of the church?

 

I don't see how their club can be any different than politics. Maybe a few smart ones can get to the top, but the more important thing to gain power is marketing appeal. Powell certainly had more brains than Bush. I think however with the Pope, he is only going to face atheists as a discussion, not a debate and is too much of a coward to debate. Not only would he get schooled, even if smart, but it would put his power at risk. It isn't about truth, it is about maintaining your marketing ability to maintain power.

I hope someday the actual Vatican building will be full of tour guides and janitors like the Coliseum, and the Popes will not exist other than in the artwork and writings, much like we keep the Pyramids around even though Pharaohs don't exist today.

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Can anyone say they're

Can anyone say they're surprised by RCC behavior anymore? The entire organization is just a big-ass martyrdom complex.

(good find, b37!)

“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)


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mellestad wrote:vatican

mellestad wrote:

vatican wrote:
Religion addresses "the fundamental answers" to the questions that "all men have about life, death, pain, justice and truth," he affirmed.

If only I'd know that before I became an atheist!

I wonder if the higher up Catholics would be good at debating atheists, or if apologetics is left to specific parts of the church?

I may indeed address those issues. However, it totally fails to address them in an intelligent way.

It certainly has nothing useful to say about 'truth' - you don't really successfully address truth with bullshit delusions.

It has historically been able to address 'death', just look at all the witches and heretics it succeeded with. Its attitude to condoms has probably been responsible for more than a few deaths from AIDS.

Ask those molested boys about church 'justice'.

Pain? It is certainly a monstrous pain in the butt for people genuinely concerned with truth, justice, and freedom of thought.

It's approach doesn't even work all that well for members of the church itself, let alone those who don't swallow its bullshit dogma.

Favorite oxymorons: Gospel Truth, Rational Supernaturalist, Business Ethics, Christian Morality

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Repent and you will be saved!

Now El Papa has said that the church must repent for it's sins. So all will be fine, eh? As we know, everything can be forgiven except denial of the holy spirit! It really would make a great board game with a "get out of sin" card. It would be great if Hitchens et al managed to get him arrested as he arrives on British soil. "Right son (sorry - father! You're nicked!"


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Brian37 wrote:[I hope

Brian37 wrote:

[I hope someday the actual Vatican building will be full of tour guides and janitors like the Coliseum, and the Popes will not exist other than in the artwork and writings, much like we keep the Pyramids around even though Pharaohs don't exist today.

I agree. I hope I'm alive to see it happen. Personally, I can't wait until the church fails and its "secret archives" are opened up to all scholars. this might give us back maybe one hundredth of a thousandth of a percent of all the knowledge they have suppressed, all of the books they have burned, and scientists they have killed over the last 2000 years. Its the least they can do.

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Don't count on it....

liberatedatheist wrote:

I agree. I hope I'm alive to see it happen. Personally, I can't wait until the church fails and its "secret archives" are opened up to all scholars. this might give us back maybe one hundredth of a thousandth of a percent of all the knowledge they have suppressed, all of the books they have burned, and scientists they have killed over the last 2000 years. Its the least they can do.

That would be nice outcome over the next century, wouldn't it?

Well... we've still got 17.8% of the world population to..... "sanitize" from their asinine, Catholic beliefs.

Nice avatar, btw!

“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)


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In fairness

Brian37 wrote:

I bet he thinks we forgot about Galileo or church complicity during WW2.

There were some standout churchmen during world war 2 and some of the bravest were in Germany. Hundreds were killed for their opposition to hitler. The dutch reform church pastors, too, were dangerously vociferous in their criticism. Specifically, it's worth bearing in mind that despite being hitler's ally, catholic italy was the one country in western europe that fiercely refused to deport jews, gypsys and disabled folks for 'resettlement' by the jerries. Even spain, which stayed out of the war, used to actively return captured jews to the gestapo if it caught them trying to escape to portugal. But not the italians and this infuriated hitler. When the germans finally took control of italy after the allied landings, the then pope hid 500 jews and gypsys in the vatican city. It was the same elsewhere in the churches, monasteries and private houses of italy. With support from Rome the italians managed to save 70 per cent of italian jews by hiding them despite being threatened with death on the spot for doing so. The moral guts this took is pushed into sharper relief when you consider it's something the french were far less prepared to risk.

Of course the largely atheist vikings were the ballsiest with the mass murder thing. When it became apparent germany would violate danish neutrality late in the war and deport danish jews, swedish fisherman and baltic traders ignored german threats and staged a mini dunkirk, evacuating every last one of them to safety in sweden in a single weekend. Meanwhile, the behaviour of many catholic nations in central and eastern europe doesn't bear thinking about. Ukraine and Hungary spring horrifically to mind.  

 

 

 

 

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"Benedict XVI is working to

"Benedict XVI is working to further the dialogue between faith and reason..."

Everything makes sense now. The church holds faith and reason to be mutually exclusive.

Nobody I know was brainwashed into being an atheist.

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Atheistextremist

Atheistextremist wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

I bet he thinks we forgot about Galileo or church complicity during WW2.

There were some standout churchmen during world war 2 and some of the bravest were in Germany. Hundreds were killed for their opposition to hitler. The dutch reform church pastors, too, were dangerously vociferous in their criticism. Specifically, it's worth bearing in mind that despite being hitler's ally, catholic italy was the one country in western europe that fiercely refused to deport jews, gypsys and disabled folks for 'resettlement' by the jerries. Even spain, which stayed out of the war, used to actively return captured jews to the gestapo if it caught them trying to escape to portugal. But not the italians and this infuriated hitler. When the germans finally took control of italy after the allied landings, the then pope hid 500 jews and gypsys in the vatican city. It was the same elsewhere in the churches, monasteries and private houses of italy. With support from Rome the italians managed to save 70 per cent of italian jews by hiding them despite being threatened with death on the spot for doing so. The moral guts this took is pushed into sharper relief when you consider it's something the french were far less prepared to risk.

Of course the largely atheist vikings were the ballsiest with the mass murder thing. When it became apparent germany would violate danish neutrality late in the war and deport danish jews, swedish fisherman and baltic traders ignored german threats and staged a mini dunkirk, evacuating every last one of them to safety in sweden in a single weekend. Meanwhile, the behaviour of many catholic nations in central and eastern europe doesn't bear thinking about. Ukraine and Hungary spring horrifically to mind.  

 

 

 

 

 

Yea, it makes me wonder why they didn't oppose the worst parts of the final solution out in the open, most of them seem to have been against it.  It has given them a huge amount of bad press in the long run, no amount of individual action can spare the lack of official response from criticism.

Maybe they were just worried about retribution?

Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.


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geirj wrote:"Benedict XVI is

geirj wrote:
"Benedict XVI is working to further the dialogue between faith and reason..."

 

Everything makes sense now. The church holds faith and reason to be mutually exclusive.

 

Yah, that matches with my first thought on the matter. Anyone who would participate in such a “discussion” (and I use the tern lightly), does so at the cost of granting some validity to the whole idea that religion has some type of merit that it does not really deserve.

 

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

 

Secondly, what does it even mean to have this conversation? Really, while Brian makes a fair point that the elite in the church are likely to be composed largely of people who are better at seeking power than at actually being smart, it still bears noting that smart people can and do get power.

 

Since the RCC is general and the college of Cardinals specifically tends to keep to themselves, we don't really know who holds what cards. I am sure that many Cardinals are only in power because they are good at getting power. However, there are certain to be many Cardinals who are also people who hold many advanced degrees.

 

Anyone who walks into a meeting such as this where specific terms have not been fully hammered out ahead of time is likely walking into a trap. You will be going up against the very people who are probably the “best of the best” as far as such discussions.

 

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

 

That being said, I would wonder if the Pope would be willing to take on such a discussion if there was an understanding that he did not get to set the deal up himself. Something like the old Nightline debate with Brian/Kelly on one side and Ray/Kirk on the other.

 

He could bring his chosen second with him to appear on live television and whomever takes the deal gets to appoint a second themselves.

 

IN THIS CORNER WE HAVE Pope Benedict and the Camerlingo. IN THE OTHER CORNER WE HAVE Christopher Hitchens and Michael Shermer.

 

Simulcast this on a few different video services such as YouTube and similar. Let the whole world TIVO it from several services so that no one person can edit stuff out later on.

 

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

 

Nah, never gonna happen. The Pope will surely pussy out on that one.

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But how great would it be if

But how great would it be if after a meeting with Dawkins & Hitchens, in the hopes of converting them...... the Pope came out of it and said "Jesus Fucking Christ they're right... my whole life has been a sham...wake up people...there *is* no God"....


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ClockCat wrote:  Rofl.

ClockCat wrote:

 

 

Rofl.

Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.