Way beyond tea-bagging

cj
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Way beyond tea-bagging

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100329/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/us_fbi_raids

Quote:

Nine suspects tied to a Christian militia in the Midwest are charged with conspiring to kill police officers, then attack a funeral in the hopes of killing more law enforcement personnel, federal prosecutors said Monday.

U.S. Attorney Barbara McQuade said agents moved on the group because the Hutaree members were planning a violent reconaissance mission sometime in April — just a few days away.

Members of the group called Hutaree are charged in the case, including their leader, David Brian Stone, also known as "Captain Hutaree."

Once other officers gathered for a slain officer's funeral, the group planned to detonate homemade bombs at the funeral, killing more, according to newly unsealed court papers.

According to the indictment, the idea of attacking a police funeral was one of numerous scenarios discussed as ways to go after law enforcement officers. Other scenarios included a fake 911 call to lure an officer to his or her death, or an attack on the family of a police officer.

After such attacks, the group allegedly planned to retreat to "rally points" protected by trip-wired improvised explosive devices, or IEDs, for what they expected would become a violent standoff with law enforcement personnel.

"It is believed by the Hutaree that this engagement would then serve as a catalyst for a more wide-sread uprising against the government," the indictment charges.

It includes charges of seditious conspiracy, possessing a firearm during a crime of violence, teaching the use of explosives, and attempting to use a weapon of mass destruction — homemade bombs.

The indictment charges members of the group conspired "to levy war against the United States, (and) to oppose by force the authority of the government of the United States."

The charges follow FBI raids over the weekend on locations in Michigan, Ohio, and Indiana.

According to investigators, the Hutaree view local, state, and federal law enforcement personnel as a "brotherhood" and an enemy, and planned to attack them as part of an armed struggle against the U.S. government.

Eight suspects have been arrested by the FBI, and one more is being sought. Of the eight captured, seven are due in court later Monday.

Andrew Arena, head of the FBI's field office in Detroit, said the case "is an example of radical and extremist fringe groups which can be found throughout our society. The FBI takes such extremist groups seriously, especially those who would target innocent citizens and the law enforcement officers who protect the citizens of the United States."

On its Web site, Hutaree quotes several Bible passages and states: "We believe that one day, as prophecy says, there will be an Anti-Christ. ... Jesus wanted us to be ready to defend ourselves using the sword and stay alive using equipment.".............................

And here I thought all the whack jobs were in the North West.  Silly me.

Can anyone tell me what this accomplishes?  Besides disgusting most reasonable people.

-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.

"We are entitled to our own opinions. We're not entitled to our own facts"- Al Franken

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mellestad
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Christ.  Of course it is

Christ.  Of course it is light on specifics, they might not be tea party people.

 

The problem is, I talk to a lot of tea party people.  Right now they are literally waiting for something to happen that will force the government to impose martial law.  Any time a story comes up about right wingers doing or saying something stupid they say it is a 'leftist conspiracy' and yadda-yadda armed rebellion....I don't know what you are supposed to tell these people.  My usual response is to point out that failing to get your way in politics does not equal being violated.  As long as the system still allows citizens to elect their representatives, work with the system.

 

I am young enough I don't know whether this is normal or if the current rash of doomsday hyper-rhetoric is something new.

 

Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.


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To demonstrate, I went to

To demonstrate, I went to one of these forums and found a thread about this very topic.  Right out of the gate there were people talking about how it was a leftist frame job, they even continued after a Michigan Militia member came on and said these guys were genuine whack jobs.

 

Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.


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What is wrong with fighting

What is wrong with fighting for Jesus? The Muslims and Jews fight for their gods too? And if your soccer team or NFL team loses, you have the right to beat the shit out of an apposing fan. Come on, you can't be honorable unless you beat someone up because they called your sister a whore.

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cj
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mellestad wrote:Christ.  Of

mellestad wrote:

Christ.  Of course it is light on specifics, they might not be tea party people.

 

The problem is, I talk to a lot of tea party people.  Right now they are literally waiting for something to happen that will force the government to impose martial law.  Any time a story comes up about right wingers doing or saying something stupid they say it is a 'leftist conspiracy' and yadda-yadda armed rebellion....I don't know what you are supposed to tell these people.  My usual response is to point out that failing to get your way in politics does not equal being violated.  As long as the system still allows citizens to elect their representatives, work with the system.

 

I am young enough I don't know whether this is normal or if the current rash of doomsday hyper-rhetoric is something new.

 

No, I don't think they are tea-baggers, I meant to imply they are way worse than tea-baggers.  And being not so young, I think anytime you have people rabble rousing, the rabble will rouse and you will have consequences you do not intend.  Which is a backwards way of saying if some of the more extreme commentators had not gotten everyone riled up, this probably would not be happening. 

-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.

"We are entitled to our own opinions. We're not entitled to our own facts"- Al Franken

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cj
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Brian37 wrote:What is wrong

Brian37 wrote:

What is wrong with fighting for Jesus? The Muslims and Jews fight for their gods too? And if your soccer team or NFL team loses, you have the right to beat the shit out of an apposing fan. Come on, you can't be honorable unless you beat someone up because they called your sister a whore.

You asked for it - your sister is a whore.  Glad to oblige, any time.  Your welcome.  Really, no need to thank me. 

-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.

"We are entitled to our own opinions. We're not entitled to our own facts"- Al Franken

"If death isn't sweet oblivion, I will be severely disappointed" - Ruth M.


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cj wrote:Brian37 wrote:What

cj wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

What is wrong with fighting for Jesus? The Muslims and Jews fight for their gods too? And if your soccer team or NFL team loses, you have the right to beat the shit out of an apposing fan. Come on, you can't be honorable unless you beat someone up because they called your sister a whore.

You asked for it - your sister is a whore.  Glad to oblige, any time.  Your welcome.  Really, no need to thank me. 

YOU ME, AT THE QUAD AFTER 6TH PERIOD!

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


cj
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Brian37 wrote:cj

Brian37 wrote:

cj wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

What is wrong with fighting for Jesus? The Muslims and Jews fight for their gods too? And if your soccer team or NFL team loses, you have the right to beat the shit out of an apposing fan. Come on, you can't be honorable unless you beat someone up because they called your sister a whore.

You asked for it - your sister is a whore.  Glad to oblige, any time.  Your welcome.  Really, no need to thank me. 

YOU ME, AT THE QUAD AFTER 6TH PERIOD!

-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.

"We are entitled to our own opinions. We're not entitled to our own facts"- Al Franken

"If death isn't sweet oblivion, I will be severely disappointed" - Ruth M.


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cj wrote:Can anyone tell me

cj wrote:

Can anyone tell me what this accomplishes?  Besides disgusting most reasonable people.

These people are experiencing some kind of disconnect in their cognitive function.

Right-wingers are generally pro-military - to the point of placing the military on a pedestal. It's interesting that this militia group thought that "law enforcement" was the enemy. I certainly fail to see how law enforcement could somehow turn on the American people (as if it were some kind of independent entity) without the military doing something about it. The military would be either pro-law enforcement or anti-law enforcement. If the military is pro-law enforcement, then these militia guys can't be pro-military.

Total disconnect. They're delusional.

Nobody I know was brainwashed into being an atheist.

Why Believe?


Kapkao
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mellestad wrote:The problem

mellestad wrote:

The problem is, I talk to a lot of tea party people.  Right now they are literally waiting for something to happen that will force the government to impose martial law.

 

There's always a conspiracy theory of an organization or some such out to get the extremists of any particular vocal minority. Of course, most of it also has as much clout as the "Four-sided Earth" theory.

Rarely, someone who has a somewhat firm grasp of reality becomes a part of these politically fringe groups and adds a few salient points to the entire clusterfuck, and the general message of the group becomes somewhat credible.

Quote:
I don't know whether this is normal or if the current rash of doomsday hyper-rhetoric is something new.

No, it isn't something new. Ted Kazenski's group bore a similar warning back in 1995, before killing a bunch of people with a fertiziler-bomb truck.

“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)


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I'd just like to thank the

I'd just like to thank the nice Michigan citizens for making my home state of Texas look grounded for the first time since Oklahoma City. It's awfully cute when you from the North bring out your nutjobs to play with. They're like that old first pressing of Dark Side of the Moon that you rediscover once a decade and show off to your friends. Only less awesome. But seriously, it sounds like they named their Christian militia after a mating ritual from Avatar.


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...

cj wrote:
And here I thought all the whack jobs were in the North West.  Silly me.

HEY! We're not all whack jobs here in the NW.   XD

But if you want to hear some grade A bat shit crazy, the NW isn't the worst place to look:

http://www.fairycongress.com/

Now THAT is some crazy shit!

kapkao wrote:
No, it isn't something new. Ted Kazenski's group bore a similar warning back in 1995, before killing a bunch of people with a fertiziler-bomb truck.

I think you're mistaking Ted Kazenski with Timothy McVeigh. Both nut jobs, but with completely different motives.

"This may shock you, but not everything in the bible is true." The only true statement ever to be uttered by Jean Chauvinism, sociopathic emotional terrorist.
"A Boss in Heaven is the best excuse for a boss on earth, therefore If God did exist, he would have to be abolished." Mikhail Bakunin
"The means in which you take,
dictate the ends in which you find yourself."
"Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government! Supreme leadership derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony!"
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Kapkao
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B166ER wrote:kapkao wrote:

B166ER wrote:

kapkao wrote:
No, it isn't something new. Ted Kazenski's group bore a similar warning back in 1995, before killing a bunch of people with a fertiziler-bomb truck.

I think you're mistaking Ted Kazenski with Timothy McVeigh. Both nut jobs, but with completely different motives.

I think you're right... dammit.

What can I say... I have the keywords "unabomber" and "Oklahoma City bomber" wired closely together in my head. (pun!)

“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)


cj
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Howdy neighbor

B166ER wrote:

cj wrote:
And here I thought all the whack jobs were in the North West.  Silly me.

HEY! We're not all whack jobs here in the NW.   XD

But if you want to hear some grade A bat shit crazy, the NW isn't the worst place to look:

http://www.fairycongress.com/

Now THAT is some crazy shit!

I forget not everyone has seen all of my posts - I've seen all of my posts. 

I grew up in Yuma, AZ, have lived in Kansas and Hawaii, but most recently moved to Spokane, WA (where my in-laws live), then Ritzville and Ephrata (central WA hell for the uninitiated), and finally landed in Portland, OR which must be one of the nicest places in the world.  I fit right in with the other aging hippies, and enjoy the myriad wackos as long as they are non-violent.

-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.

"We are entitled to our own opinions. We're not entitled to our own facts"- Al Franken

"If death isn't sweet oblivion, I will be severely disappointed" - Ruth M.


mellestad
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cj wrote:B166ER wrote:cj

cj wrote:

B166ER wrote:

cj wrote:
And here I thought all the whack jobs were in the North West.  Silly me.

HEY! We're not all whack jobs here in the NW.   XD

But if you want to hear some grade A bat shit crazy, the NW isn't the worst place to look:

http://www.fairycongress.com/

Now THAT is some crazy shit!

I forget not everyone has seen all of my posts - I've seen all of my posts. 

I grew up in Yuma, AZ, have lived in Kansas and Hawaii, but most recently moved to Spokane, WA (where my in-laws live), then Ritzville and Ephrata (central WA hell for the uninitiated), and finally landed in Portland, OR which must be one of the nicest places in the world.  I fit right in with the other aging hippies, and enjoy the myriad wackos as long as they are non-violent.

 

Holy crap, small world!  My house is about ten minutes from Ephrata, and I work in Moses Lake.

 

And come on, didn't you like living in a teensy rural town with nothing to do and a high crime rate with a muddy lake surrounded by an endless sea of barren wasteland, where the summers are are bone dry with 120 degree weather and the winters are 20 below?

Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.


cj
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uh, yeh

mellestad wrote:


Holy crap, small world!  My house is about ten minutes from Ephrata, and I work in Moses Lake.

 

And come on, didn't you like living in a teensy rural town with nothing to do and a high crime rate with a muddy lake surrounded by an endless sea of barren wasteland, where the summers are are bone dry with 120 degree weather and the winters are 20 below?

Thrilling.  I worked at ASiMi for 5 years.  Did the Ritzville to Moses Lake trip for 2, Ephrata to ML for three.  One of my co-workers nearly died on black ice in fog.  I rolled two cars on ice.  I now never drive on ice, it's obvious I am not competent.  Memories of freezing fog all. day. long. for. six. weeks. one winter.  Snow drifts 10 feet high in our driveway another winter.  The hill down into the Columbia River (I switched to working in Wenatchee for 4 years still living in Ephrata), two feet deep in snow and semi's jackknifed all across the road.  Sure.  Lovely place to be from.

I knew someone living and working in Wenatchee who said she had moved from Seattle to get away from the rain.  There was two inches of glare ice on the streets and sidewalks that morning.  I said, "And this is better?"  "hm" was all the response I got.  People are weird sometimes.

-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.

"We are entitled to our own opinions. We're not entitled to our own facts"- Al Franken

"If death isn't sweet oblivion, I will be severely disappointed" - Ruth M.