Intro and exit

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Intro and exit

 Hello. Been on here for less than a week and felt I should explain myself before I leave forever. Was always atheist for most of my life. I guess it was cause my childhood was rough. My dad beat my mom and older brother all the time before my parents got divorced. Me and my younger brother were to young at the time. After the divorce my mom began to drink heavily and her boyfriends took up where my dad left off. This time I was not spared. As I got older I began to drink and do drugs and my older brother was imprisoned for finally halting the abuse. During high school I was getting in trouble with the law for various things. After my first and only felony at 16 I changed. Not due to religion just my own determination from observations. Friends died or went to prison and I didn't want to follow that path. I was the only person from my group of friends to make it through high school. After wards I worked and drank. Nothing more really.

As the years progressed I sobered up and went back to school. I got BAs in history and interdisciplinary social science with a minor in anthropology. I got a great girlfriend and a dog and couldn't have been happier. For the first time in my life everything was peachy. Then something unexpected happened.

Believe this or not, it happened. Sometime in January 2009 I had a dream in which a luminous, almost transparent Jesus face appeared and merely uttered "the 13th." I brushed it off but that fact that Feb 13th was a Friday and coming up had me wondering. Nothing happened. Same with March 13. Again nothing happened. I forgot about the dream and was researching creation stories, snake symbology, and deluge stories for a book that was going to explain them as the result of a global natural disaster that scarred the human psyche, possibly a meteor hitting the north polar region. One night during the course of my research I came to accept Christianity and repented. I was filled with a feeling that words can't describe. That night I awoke from consciousness and was experiencing sleep paralysis for the second time in my life. This time I was not afraid and I saw some kind of cloud of energy that looked something like what the Predator looks like when it turns invisible exiting my bedroom. Whatever was in me left. Later on the next day I realized the date was May 14th. I know it sounds crazy but it happened.

So now for my resignation from this board. I thought I had to try and convince others of my belief but I now feel coming here was a mistake. So far in all my debates I just ended up getting so riled and consumed that it can't be right. The worst of me was starting to show and I want to end it. I appreciate the chance I had to express my opinions and thank all that listened to them. Good bye forever. 

Sincerely,

scuppers


NoDeity
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Bah humbug.  You found that

Bah humbug.  You found that you were unable to frame your beliefs rationally and, confronted by rational responses to your expressions of faith, you found that you had to choose between seriously examining your beliefs and running away.  You've chosen to run.  Fucking coward.  Go, then, believe in your sky pixie -- your imaginary friend.  That way, you don't have to face the fact that you have chosen to be deluded.

Reality is the graveyard of the gods.


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You'll hate hearing this if

You'll hate hearing this if you read it, but your life story you use as a crutch and justification is nothing extraordinary. In fact, as unjust and imperfect as it may be, it's commonplace. I've known over a dozen people with the same story as you, only exception being number of siblings. That doesn't change anything. You came here with little knowledge of your new religion, you had your belief system torn to shreds, and instead of facing the truth, you think it will be easier to leave than get "riled up" because you know you can't defend your faith.

I mean you no harm as a human being, I don't have a personal problem with you. In fact I'm only taking the time to write this to extend a hand. If you come back to read these replies, I invite you to embrace the cognitive dissonance that gets you worked up, and realize the rational explanations myself and others are trying to get through. If you'd like, I'm entirely open to a one on one debate so that we can keep the conversation coherent. Either way, I wish you happiness in future endeavors.


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Not going to church or being

Not going to church or being rebelious or drinking have nothing to do with being an atheist. Atheism is the pposition, NOT a lifestyle. What would you say to James Randi who is an atheist and has been so his whole life, has a college degree and has NEVER touched alcohol?

You did not see Jesus, you suffered a delusion that felt real. Happens in drug induced states and with the mentally ill as well. 

And our brains can do this to themselves WITHOUT drugs or mental illness. Something can "feel" real but merely be a product of strong electro-chemical brain activity combinded with sensory input mixing with your subconcsious.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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To me, being an agnostic is

To me, being an agnostic is a lifestyle, a philosophy,  and an approach to existence.

“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)


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scuppers wrote:So now for my

scuppers wrote:

So now for my resignation from this board. I thought I had to try and convince others of my belief but I now feel coming here was a mistake. So far in all my debates I just ended up getting so riled and consumed that it can't be right. The worst of me was starting to show and I want to end it. I appreciate the chance I had to express my opinions and thank all that listened to them. Good bye forever. 


Things like what you describe may happen. I have no problem with that.

The problem is, that such an events happen to people of all religions, and those of none. It merely depends on your cultural environment, if you see Jesus or Vishnu. Your experience may be real, but it does not mean that you should accept the doctrine of eternal damnation in Hell, that was made up by an emperor in year 533.
Keep away from things like religional fanatism and evaluate your experience cold-bloodedly. Even if it would be Jesus right then and there, it does not mean anything. Jesus was not a Christian, he was a Jew, does that mean you should become Jew too? Nope, he only said "13th". Do not make up stories about what he wants from you or not. You can only think that he wanted you to stay (or become) a good guy, feel better, or whatever.
You were an atheist, right? I believe that a real atheist would not start kissing the ass of Jesus even if he would be proven to be real, and real Jesus would not demand it. Jesus, unlike most of Christians, was not a douche.

Beings who deserve worship don't demand it. Beings who demand worship don't deserve it.


Kapkao
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NoDeity wrote:Bah humbug. 

NoDeity wrote:

Bah humbug.  You found that you were unable to frame your beliefs rationally and, confronted by rational responses to your expressions of faith, you found that you had to choose between seriously examining your beliefs and running away.  You've chosen to run.  Fucking coward.  Go, then, believe in your sky pixie -- your imaginary friend.  That way, you don't have to face the fact that you have chosen to be deluded.

Actually, my responses to him were QUITE irrational and impassioned, but it's what I felt like saying...

“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)


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Is it really a mistake to

Is it really a mistake to share your point of view/beliefs with others if they do not agree with everything you say? I don't think anyone here wishes you ill for whatever it is that you say you believe in.If I took to heart all the things that have been said about my views over the years, I'd be in tears.At the end of the day I am me and you are you, no reason to leave but if that is what you want farewell and good luck.

All forms of tampering with human beings, getting at them, shaping them against their will to your own pattern, all thought control and conditioning is, therefore, a denial of that in men which makes them men and their values ultimate.
Isaiah Berlin


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Come back scuppers you weak prick

 

and bring some of that home grown you were smoking when you saw that mysterious cloud sneaking out of your bedroom...

"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck


ex-minister
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 Was watching a video

 Was watching a video of Dan Dennett speaking at AAL 2007. He said it is  an old con game that if the mark becomes skeptical you act like your feelings are hurt.

 Some people are cons and don't realize they are being cons. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvJZQwy9dvE

 

 

Religion Kills !!!

Numbers 31:17-18 - Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

http://jesus-needs-money.blogspot.com/


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good luck all the best.

good luck all the best.


smartypants
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 There most likely is a

 There most likely is a rational explanation for what you experienced that doesn't need to resort to mystical mumbo jumbo, but you won't find it here. Most of the people in here are blinded by their adherence to things science has explained and reject anything it hasn't as being idiocy and/or hallucination. I had a lot of trouble when I first got here, as well, likely similar to what you faced. Difference is, I decided to stick around anyway.


Atheistextremist
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Slap me down folks

smartypants wrote:

There most likely is a rational explanation for what you experienced that doesn't need to resort to mystical mumbo jumbo, but you won't find it here. Most of the people in here are blinded by their adherence to things science has explained and reject anything it hasn't as being idiocy and/or hallucination. I had a lot of trouble when I first got here, as well, likely similar to what you faced. Difference is, I decided to stick around anyway.

 

But while I agree there is a great strength to things you experience in your mind, those mind things that can't be reproduced in a lab should be considered products of the mind. Powerful, yes. Unexplained, yes. But inherently within and of the human mind/body. These sorts of things are the province of neuroscience and psychology. Stretching our bungy-rope feelings and echoey head spaces out across reality because they feel real seems like a mistake.

This said, human imagination is an excellent tool for guessing the way things work and proving yourself right later, so it's by no means cut and dried. Personally I think scuppers wanted to go to summer christian camp for eternity, there to sit around a pine log fire while a youth leader with the appearance of a buck's fizz member played the guitar and sang about jacob's ladder. Personally I'd rather do Himalayan lines for all eternity and never be achingly short of serotonin but it's horses for courses, of courses.

 

 

 

 

 

 

"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck


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Atheistextremist

Atheistextremist wrote:

 These sorts of things are the province of neuroscience and psychology. Stretching our bungy-rope feelings and echoey head spaces out across reality because they feel real seems like a mistake.

I agree with you for the most part, but I think you underestimate the power of the mind and perhaps overestimate its limits.

Atheistextremist wrote:

This said, human imagination is an excellent tool for guessing the way things work and proving yourself right later, so it's by no means cut and dried. Personally I think scuppers wanted to go to summer christian camp for eternity, there to sit around a pine log fire while a youth leader with the appearance of a buck's fizz member played the guitar and sang about jacob's ladder. Personally I'd rather do Himalayan lines for all eternity and never be achingly short of serotonin but it's horses for courses, of courses.

Certainly if he wanted a round of Kumbaya, this is not the place for him. I'll still say I've found these forums far less nasty and infuriating than some...but then, I'm not really a theist, either...

 

 

 

 

 

 


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Good luck dude, for

Good luck dude, for humanities sake please stay away from the fundamentalist stuff.  Also, do a Google search on cognitive dissonance, it might be enlightening.

Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.


ex-minister
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mellestad wrote:Good luck

mellestad wrote:

Good luck dude, for humanities sake please stay away from the fundamentalist stuff.  Also, do a Google search on cognitive dissonance, it might be enlightening.

 

Quite an interesting topic. Thanks.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance

 

I am interested in how you think this applies to scuppers if you care to pull back the curtain.

It seems the forbidden toy might be what you were thinking.

That boring task experiment is really revealing about human nature.

Religion Kills !!!

Numbers 31:17-18 - Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

http://jesus-needs-money.blogspot.com/


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I never ceases to amaze me,

I never ceases to amaze me, although it shouldn't, that people falsely use the word atheist to describe themselves not knowing what the word means using what theists sell them as the meaning.

Atheism has nothing to do with behavior anymore than being white, Christian or Muslim or gay or black or make you automatically good or bad.

Labels and behavior are separate issues. Atheist is a label used to to describe a person who merely does not hold a belief in a god or gods. How that atheist behaves is still a separate subject.

A Christian can be a Southern Baptist or Northern Catholic. Some can have criminal records and some don't. But all believe that Jesus was the son of the one "true" god.

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


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ex-minister wrote:mellestad

ex-minister wrote:

mellestad wrote:

Good luck dude, for humanities sake please stay away from the fundamentalist stuff.  Also, do a Google search on cognitive dissonance, it might be enlightening.

 

Quite an interesting topic. Thanks.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance

 

I am interested in how you think this applies to scuppers if you care to pull back the curtain.

It seems the forbidden toy might be what you were thinking.

That boring task experiment is really revealing about human nature.

 

He had new faith, was not used to debate, and came in all fire and brimstone.  I would not be surprised if he was made incofmortable arguing for a faith that he could not rationalize internally.

Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.


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mellestad wrote:He had new

mellestad wrote:

He had new faith, was not used to debate, and came in all fire and brimstone.  I would not be surprised if he was made incofmortable arguing for a faith that he could not rationalize internally.

Why is it people approach others "all fire and brimstone", anyways? (Kind of a rhetorical question) Is it because they so readily fear and hastily hide from the beliefs of others (including nontheists), that they 'trick' themselves into being convinced of their moral superiority?

My knowledge of so many fundamentalists, religious leaders, "pillars of the community", and xenophobes in general of the past 100+ years seem to indicate a general fear and loathing of things which people might feel threatens their existence and their 'core being'- or soul, as some would call it.

To speak hypothetically: 'Because I hang around people who do not share my beliefs, or perhaps share them in a way that is too dissimilar to my own, I am eternally damned/exiled/cast down/spiritually crippled beyond repair'... and such a person who thinks like this will fight and struggle with such a "phobia of difference" for the remainder of their existence. I know that when I first came to RRS... I was terrified of the other posters. As hard as that may be to believe... I avoided showing any weakness whatsoever on the faulty belief that I was psychologically fortified against everyone logging in and even posting on this site. I got over this, eventually... because I saw what was happening with my oh-so imbalanced chemistry... and because I was so tired of constantly being ready for a fight. Now I just need to figure out how to take back some of the nasty things I undoubtedly said over the past 4 weeks... 

With all of that out of the way; I'm convinced Scuppers is hiding a good bit about himself from all of us. I suspect he never was "an atheist for most of his life", but still wanted to hoax everyone in to thinking that they had lost something by him being scared away from RRS. So, quite predictably... he martyrs himself in front of others. The problem is... he doesn't seem to understand that, dictionary definition wise, he can't do this on account of his actions alone. To be a 'martyr'... you actually need other individuals attacking you. Nobody truly attacked him... but he saw others resolute and determined in their beliefs. So he threw his hands up and basically said "Fine. I'm done here."

“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)