Bittersweat tears and Fort Hood.

Brian37
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Bittersweat tears and Fort Hood.

It needed to be said and was said, and has always been the case in our history. It is sad in this context that Obama stated a truth that should not have to be said. These soldiers at Fort Hood, died, not for Jesus, or the republican party. They served and were the unfortunate target of a nutcase. But be it overseas or at home, they defend OUR Constitution and there is no religious litmus test to serve in our military. They served to protect OUR freedom, not a theocracy.

I am literally crying right now out of pain and joy. Pain that it took this to state the obvious, but joy that it is finally coming to light.

I thank anyone, left or right, believer or not, who does what I cannot do. But it takes all kinds to serve and those who serve defend us all and our country is not monochromatic, nor should our military be.

I couldn't be more proud than I am right now, I am just sorry it took this event to state the obvious.

http://www.opposingviews.com/articles/news-atheists-applaud-obama-for-including-them-in-fort-hood-speech-r-1257667673

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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Brian37
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I don't know why OPs don't

I don't know why OPs don't have an edit option. I screwed up the spelling in the title(what a shocker). Could I get an admin to correct that?

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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Sapient
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 I basically agree with you

 I basically agree with you Brian, but I'm a devils advocate kind of guy, and I just wanted to note that my tears of happiness will come the day that no nations need a military to defend themselves because humans will hopefully one day get to the point where they don't resort to violence to solve their problems.  It's archaic, barbaric, disgusting, and not something I have an easy time applauding.  I'm not trying to take away from what you wrote, I have a hunch you'll agree with me, just felt like getting it out of my system.  I think violent people are either immature or insane.

 

 

 

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Brian37
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Sapient wrote: I basically

Sapient wrote:

 I basically agree with you Brian, but I'm a devils advocate kind of guy, and I just wanted to note that my tears of happiness will come the day that no nations need a military to defend themselves because humans will hopefully one day get to the point where they don't resort to violence to solve their problems.  It's archaic, barbaric, disgusting, and not something I have an easy time applauding.  I'm not trying to take away from what you wrote, I have a hunch you'll agree with me, just felt like getting it out of my system.  I think violent people are either immature or insane.

 

 

 

Boy that would be nice, but still a utopia that will most likely not exist in our evolution or future.

And how would you have responded to the fascism of Hitler? I couldn't have as an atheist, felt nothing, even if I physically couldn't handle defending myself, would want to defend jews from slaughter. Just like a cop would be within their rights to shoot at someone trying to commit mass murder. Some people and governments cannot always be delt with through talk.

Iran is fascist and North Korea is fascist and even as atheists knowing our capability of empathy, we value those within those societies that risk arrest and death to speak out against oppression.

I understand your intent, but there will always be people out to harm us. I think the best we can do is to accept reality and work to minimize the harm.

I will never say never to what you say, it is possible, but I don't know how likely considering that 6 billion people will not always agree, anymore than all atheists agree all the time, we don't. In your noble thought you still have to accpet reality. I wish what you say could be true, and most certainly would love to be proven wrong, but there still remains our evolutionary trait as a species, no different than any other, to be the alpha male. In this problem solving, we must not forget that.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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Abu Lahab
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Sapient wrote:  I think

Sapient wrote:
  I think violent people are either immature or insane.

 

 

Not a big fan of MMA?

 

I would say that people who are pacifists don't deserve the sacrifice that 'violent people' are willing to make for you.

 

If the West gets overrun by moslems will you happily convert to islam, submit and pay jizya or die as an apostate?

 

You'll need these 'immature and insane people then.

 

Aggression is natural, violence is natural, controlling it is of paramount importance.

 

 

How can not believing in something that is backed up with no empirical evidence be less scientific than believing in something that not only has no empirical evidence but actually goes against the laws of the universe and in many cases actually contradicts itself? - Ricky Gervais


Brian37
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Abu Lahab wrote:Sapient

Abu Lahab wrote:

Sapient wrote:
  I think violent people are either immature or insane.

 

 

Not a big fan of MMA?

 

I would say that people who are pacifists don't deserve the sacrifice that 'violent people' are willing to make for you.

 

If the West gets overrun by moslems will you happily convert to islam, submit and pay jizya or die as an apostate?

 

You'll need these 'immature and insane people then.

 

Aggression is natural, violence is natural, controlling it is of paramount importance.

 

 

Couldn't have said it better myself and I would love to see this as a global bumper sticker. Our emotions in reaction to things we don't like are NORMAL, but unless we control our reactions to such things we will continue to be violent.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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The Doomed Soul
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Brian37 wrote:Couldn't have

Brian37 wrote:

Couldn't have said it better myself and I would love to see this as a global bumper sticker. Our emotions in reaction to things we don't like are NORMAL, but unless we control our reactions to such things we will continue to be violent.

I, myself, would even advocate for self-control of aggression and violence, however... external-control, or even suppression of aggression and violence, i have a real problem with >.>

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Brian37
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The Doomed Soul

The Doomed Soul wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

Couldn't have said it better myself and I would love to see this as a global bumper sticker. Our emotions in reaction to things we don't like are NORMAL, but unless we control our reactions to such things we will continue to be violent.

I, myself, would even advocate for self-control of aggression and violence, however... external-control, or even suppression of aggression and violence, i have a real problem with >.>

Civility is not done through political corretness or force. Blasphemy, even of one's own position, even ours, is a reality we cannot escape. What we can do is challenge humanity to use reason over fear. It IS ok to be wrong. It is ok to criticize and bitching is normal for ALL humans and that is the part of empathy we should foster. Disagreements are going to happen, how we react to them is something we as a species can have control over. 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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Watch it all, it'll help

Watch it all, it'll help those who are having trouble connect the dots....

 

 


Vastet
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Even if religion and every

Even if religion and every irrational thought were to be wiped out tomorrow, there would inevitably still be conflict, thanks to entropy. Eventually you'll run out of resources, and left with the choice of take or die. Most will resist theft, so war will ensue. It's not an easy truth to accept, but it is there all the same. For that reason alone, a military is a necessity.

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The Doomed Soul
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Vastet wrote:Even if

Vastet wrote:
Even if religion and every irrational thought were to be wiped out tomorrow, there would inevitably still be conflict, thanks to entropy. Eventually you'll run out of resources, and left with the choice of take or die. Most will resist theft, so war will ensue. It's not an easy truth to accept, but it is there all the same. For that reason alone, a military is a necessity.

Indeed...

While religion and irrational may narrow the spectrum, rational and necessary violence will continue on, unabated

What Would Kharn Do?