Religon hurts the true believers more than anyone

sailor_scout
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Religon hurts the true believers more than anyone

Hey, I'm your typical angry atheist tired of being given reasons for destructive and/or unjust policies that come out of a book most people have never read- but the worst part of christianity (the main thorn in my side) is the best people involved in it are hurt by their own beliefs. The nicest christians are hung up on suffering for their religion or the things they supposedly did wrong (all the while fighting hard not to see the holes in the whole mess), while the hypocritical christians are out there trying to tell everybody else how to act and rave about not questioning god. its freakin ridiculous.

 

 

 

 

 


butterbattle
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I don't think the nice

I don't think the nice Christians are always the true believers. A lot of times, religion teaches us to do things that are, well...not so nice. It's definitely debateable what Christians are actually supposed to do.

But, other than that, I completely agree. 

Welcome to the forum, sailor_scout!

Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare


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 Quote:the worst part of

 

Quote:
the worst part of christianity (the main thorn in my side) is the best people involved in it are hurt by their own beliefs.

I couldn't agree more.  I was very lucky to get out as young as I did, but it still took me over a decade to rid myself of a lot of the bullshit I was taught and essentially reprogram my brain to be able to think critically about happiness and morality.

 

Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin

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iwbiek
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that was precisely what drew

that was precisely what drew me away from christianity: i didn't want to be an asshole anymore, and i didn't want to hang around people who were telling me i should keep being an asshole.

that was basically the catalyst.  nothing to do with scientific evidence or higher biblical criticism--i was just too nice.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


theTwelve
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butterbattle wrote:I don't

butterbattle wrote:

I don't think the nice Christians are always the true believers.

Ah, classic no true scotmans fallacy. Comical. 

 

 

 

 


theTwelve
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Hambydammit wrote:I couldn't

Hambydammit wrote:

I couldn't agree more.  I was very lucky to get out as young as I did, but it still took me over a decade to rid myself of a lot of the bullshit I was taught and essentially reprogram my brain to be able to think critically about happiness and morality.

Yes, u just changed a circuit here, and circuit there, and bravo, a born again brain. What seems to be your case, by reading some your post, your beliefs just morphed into an atheism resembling the religiosity you oppose, plagued with cognitive dissonance, and emotional sentiments deluding your critical thinking. 


Cpt_pineapple
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I think Twelve just won the

I think Twelve just won the jackass of the month award.

 

 

 


theTwelve
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Cpt_pineapple wrote:I think

Cpt_pineapple wrote:

I think Twelve just won the jackass of the month award.

Notice your coddled manner of speaking to individuals on this forum, gets you treated like the forgotten woman, the chick at the club everyone ignores, or pays attention to only to sleep with her friends. 

I rather be treated as the arrogant jackass, than the kind hearted bimbo (note: i don't think you're a bimbo, I'm actually fond of you, regardless of what your opinion of me is, but i have no desire to be treated like you are on this forum). 

You won't see me getting as flustered as you often do, because I've learned to stride with the language and manner of this forum. 

 

 


butterbattle
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theTwelve wrote:butterbattle

theTwelve wrote:

butterbattle wrote:

I don't think the nice Christians are always the true believers.

Ah, classic no true scotmans fallacy. Comical. 

In this case, I was tentatively defining "true" believers as Christians that really try follow the Bible. If this twists your noodle too much, then I could just change that to, "I don't think the nice Christians are always the ones that try to adhere to what the Bible teaches the most." Of course, we're not even sure what the Bible teaches. So, if you read the rest of my post, you can see that I'm merely suggesting that we can't assume that Christians are only "supposed" to do "nice" things. 

Heck, I thought no true scotsman could only be committed with universals. All P are Q or no P are Q. I didn't even do that, so I don't see how this could be a no true scotsman.

theTwelve wrote:
Yes, u just changed a circuit here, and circuit there, and bravo, a born again brain. What seems to be your case, by reading some your post, your beliefs just morphed into an atheism resembling the religiosity you oppose, plagued with cognitive dissonance, and emotional sentiments deluding your critical thinking.

Wow, you're an asshole.

Isn't there a better place to vent your frustration than on an Internet forum?

Buy a punching bag. Do some yoga every morning. Adopt a puppy from the nearest animal shelter. 

Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare


theTwelve
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butterbattle wrote:"I don't

butterbattle wrote:

"I don't think the nice Christians are always the ones that try to adhere to what the Bible teaches the most."

Ah, so what is it that bible teaches the most? The new testament, the Gospels, Jesus Christ, professes solidarity with the poor and the oppressed, the hungry, that instead of inviting your friends over for dinner, invite the poor, to love your enemies, that love is the highest of all things, even higher than faith, than one should surrender his wealth for the poor, that whatever one does for the least is what one does for God, to love your enemies, to respond to violence and oppresson with creative non-violence, to bless those that curse you, to forgive, that god does not forgive you until you forgive others, that God is love, and Christ is love brought to perfection among us. 

So christians who align themselves with these are the "bad" theist huh?

Or perhaps you're plagued with selection bias? 

Quote:
Heck, I thought no true scotsman could only be committed with universals. All P are Q or no P are Q. I didn't even do that, so I don't see how this could be a no true scotsman.

Yep, if i were to say the only true atheist are the ones that support the murdering of nuns and preists, and the rest are false atheist, under your logic this isn't a no true scotsman fallacy. 

Quote:

Wow, you're an asshole.

Really? So the criterea for asshole is accusing an individual of being plagued with cognitive dissonance, and emotional sentiments that delude his critical thinking,?

Quote:
Isn't there a better place to vent your frustration than on an Internet forum?

Well, I don't have any sort of frustration with the Hamy character, contrary to what you may believe. I target him not out of frustration, but out of curiosity.

 


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theTwelve

theTwelve wrote:

Cpt_pineapple wrote:

I think Twelve just won the jackass of the month award.

Notice your coddled manner of speaking to individuals on this forum

She just called you a jackass. How's that a "coddled manner of speaking" ?

 


iwbiek
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Twelve, i think the goddamn

Twelve, i think the goddamn point is that this is no place to show off your supposed logical superiority because there is no logical debate going on in this thread.  this a guy looking for sympathy and others very humanely providing it. 

are you a pompous ass in everyday conversation?  like if one of your coworkers comes in late and says, "wow, it's hot out there today and every fuckin' asshole on the road decided to box me in the righthand lane," do you cry "ad hom" and "no true scotsman" on him?  because if you do, you must not have many friends.

then again, i suppose that makes you a martyr...

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


butterbattle
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theTwelve wrote:Ah, so what

theTwelve wrote:

Ah, so what is it that bible teaches the most?

I don't know. Geneology?

theTwelve wrote:
The new testament, the Gospels, Jesus Christ, professes solidarity with the poor and the oppressed, the hungry, that instead of inviting your friends over for dinner, invite the poor, to love your enemies, that love is the highest of all things, even higher than faith, than one should surrender his wealth for the poor, that whatever one does for the least is what one does for God, to love your enemies, to respond to violence and oppresson with creative non-violence, to bless those that curse you, to forgive, that god does not forgive you until you forgive others, that God is love, and Christ is love brought to perfection among us.

Those are the best parts of the Bible, in my opinion.

theTwelve wrote:
So christians who align themselves with these are the "bad" theist huh?

Uuuuummm, well.........no. 

Are you actually reading my posts?

"I don't think the nice Christians are always the true believers. A lot of times, religion teaches us to do things that are, well...not so nice. It's definitely debateable what Christians are actually supposed to do."

I didn't say they're bad or whatever. Again, I'm merely questioning whether the nice Christians follow the Bible better than, for example, Fred Phelps. 

theTwelve wrote:
Yep, if i were to say the only true atheist are the ones that support the murdering of nuns and preists, and the rest are false atheist, under your logic this isn't a no true scotsman fallacy. 

Wtf? How is that my logic? Where did I even come close to saying something like that?

You didn't even address my comment about universals. 

theTwelve wrote:
Really? So the criterea for asshole is accusing an individual of being plagued with cognitive dissonance, and emotional sentiments that delude his critical thinking,?

Well, I don't have any sort of frustration with the Hamy character, contrary to what you may believe. I target him not out of frustration, but out of curiosity. 

Sigh...

I don't really want to talk to you anymore.

Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare


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theTwelve wrote:Well, I

theTwelve wrote:

Well, I don't have any sort of frustration with the Hamy character, contrary to what you may believe. I target him not out of frustration, but out of curiosity.

 

Ah, the final refuge of a pompous dick.  "It was all just a social experiment!  I'm such a genius I can't even interact with other people honestly, because I'm soooooo smart!"

 

Nice of you to waltz into a random thread and wave your cock around, pissing on everyone.  Bravo.

Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.


theTwelve
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butterbattle wrote:I didn't

butterbattle wrote:

I didn't say they're bad or whatever. Again, I'm merely questioning whether the nice Christians follow the Bible better than, for example, Fred Phelps. 

You're right, I stand corrected, I assumed you were implying that "nice" Christians are not "true" believers, rather than "true" Christians are not exclusively "nice" christians.


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sailor_scout wrote:Hey, I'm

sailor_scout wrote:

Hey, I'm your typical angry atheist tired of being given reasons for destructive and/or unjust policies that come out of a book most people have never read- but the worst part of christianity (the main thorn in my side) is the best people involved in it are hurt by their own beliefs. The nicest christians are hung up on suffering for their religion or the things they supposedly did wrong (all the while fighting hard not to see the holes in the whole mess), while the hypocritical christians are out there trying to tell everybody else how to act and rave about not questioning god. its freakin ridiculous.


As an atheist, you have no objective standard by which you can judge what is or is not unjust

What examples do you have of Christians being hurt by their own religion?  Give me some names and sources, please.