Will the colonizers take the Bible to Mars?

julio
atheist
Posts: 290
Joined: 2008-12-27
User is offlineOffline
Will the colonizers take the Bible to Mars?

 

If so, what for?

 


Hambydammit
High Level DonorModeratorRRS Core Member
Hambydammit's picture
Posts: 8657
Joined: 2006-10-22
User is offlineOffline
http://www.southparkstudios.c

Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin

http://hambydammit.wordpress.com/
Books about atheism


jcgadfly
SuperfanBronze Member
Posts: 6789
Joined: 2006-07-18
User is offlineOffline
personal hygeine?

personal hygeine?

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


Vastet
atheistBloggerHigh Level ModeratorSuperfan
Vastet's picture
Posts: 10688
Joined: 2006-12-25
User is offlineOffline
My guess is yes. For

My guess is yes. For symbolic reasons. Should it be? Meh. Maybe as a representation of mans success, but not as a religious one. Since religion is part of the reason we don't already have a colony there...

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


pauljohntheskeptic
atheistSilver Member
pauljohntheskeptic's picture
Posts: 2484
Joined: 2008-02-26
User is offlineOffline
julio wrote: If so, what

julio wrote:

 

If so, what for?

 

If the Gideons gets access to the spacecraft.

A Bible weighs several ounces. These ounces could be better used for fuel, food, or air.

____________________________________________________________
"I guess it's time to ask if you live under high voltage power transmission lines which have been shown to cause stimulation of the fantasy centers of the brain due to electromagnetic waves?" - Me

"God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, - it says so right here on the label. If you have a mind capable of believing all three of these divine attributes simultaneously, I have a wonderful bargain for you. No checks please. Cash and in small bills." - Robert A Heinlein.


Vastet
atheistBloggerHigh Level ModeratorSuperfan
Vastet's picture
Posts: 10688
Joined: 2006-12-25
User is offlineOffline
Even vacuum would be a

Even vacuum would be a better use of space. Laughing out loud

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


Crissaegrim
Crissaegrim's picture
Posts: 8
Joined: 2009-01-15
User is offlineOffline
Quote:A Bible weighs several

Quote:
A Bible weighs several ounces. These ounces could be better used for fuel, food, or air.
I'd put the e-book on my USB stick (if I was a believer).

BILLions and BILLions of stars! - Carl Sagan


RespectfulButBe...
Posts: 48
Joined: 2009-02-22
User is offlineOffline
I'm not sure this discussion

I'm not sure this discussion belongs in a forum dedicated to Biblical Inerrancy or the lack thereof, but I do think your comments should be addressed:

Of course the Bible will go to Mars, and well it should.  The reason it will go is that many, probably most of the members of the expedition will be religious Christians, and they will need Bibles for comfort, especially given the long times they will be away from their loved ones.  I haven't seen statistics for recent astronauts, but early astronauts were almost all church-going Christians--they were military officers, and the officer corps has a tradition of churchgoing.  So if you were to write out all of the Christians in the history of space exploration, you'd be left with a pretty empty (and nearly all Russian) shell.  It's a simple fact that some people can better deal with making sacrifices for their nation and for humanity--and there will be a lot of sacrifices on any trip that takes 8 months or more each way--if they receive support from their religion.  That's why many soldiers celebrate mass or hold prayer meetings before a battle.

Anyway, I hope you're not saying that the astronauts should be denied the comfort of religion; it seems to me that athiests, as a minority, should welcome the principle of religious freedom over religious imposition of any stripe.  It's one thing to say religion is not for you, another more dangerous thing to say that you should impose atheism on someone else, and pure fantasy to think that other people are not religious, however much you may wish they weren't.  BTW we should send Korans or other religious texts as appropriate to meet the spiritual needs of the astronauts.

I wouldn't worry too much about the weight, we can send the Bible along as an e-book.  And I bet we'll send an American flag along; that takes up weight that could be devoted to food, too, but it is important to the spirit of the mission.

Vastet wrote:
My guess is yes. For symbolic reasons. Should it be? Meh. Maybe as a representation of mans success, but not as a religious one. Since religion is part of the reason we don't already have a colony there...
Would you care to back that statement up with proof?  It's very easy to blame some group of people whom you don't like, it's quite another to make a statement like that without evidence.  So, if you have evidence that religion has held back a Mars colony, it will surprise me (most of the Christians I know support space exploration--God gave us a big universe for a reason, so why not see what wonders he has created for us!), I'd love to hear it.  And, if you don't, I think you owe an apology to the religious.

Once an athiest, now a believer, and always ready to debate issues respectfully.


Vastet
atheistBloggerHigh Level ModeratorSuperfan
Vastet's picture
Posts: 10688
Joined: 2006-12-25
User is offlineOffline
RespectfulButBelieving

RespectfulButBelieving wrote:

I'm not sure this discussion belongs in a forum dedicated to Biblical Inerrancy or the lack thereof, but I do think your comments should be addressed:

Of course the Bible will go to Mars, and well it should.  The reason it will go is that many, probably most of the members of the expedition will be religious Christians, and they will need Bibles for comfort, especially given the long times they will be away from their loved ones.  I haven't seen statistics for recent astronauts, but early astronauts were almost all church-going Christians--they were military officers, and the officer corps has a tradition of churchgoing.  So if you were to write out all of the Christians in the history of space exploration, you'd be left with a pretty empty (and nearly all Russian) shell.  It's a simple fact that some people can better deal with making sacrifices for their nation and for humanity--and there will be a lot of sacrifices on any trip that takes 8 months or more each way--if they receive support from their religion.  That's why many soldiers celebrate mass or hold prayer meetings before a battle.

Anyway, I hope you're not saying that the astronauts should be denied the comfort of religion; it seems to me that athiests, as a minority, should welcome the principle of religious freedom over religious imposition of any stripe.  It's one thing to say religion is not for you, another more dangerous thing to say that you should impose atheism on someone else, and pure fantasy to think that other people are not religious, however much you may wish they weren't.  BTW we should send Korans or other religious texts as appropriate to meet the spiritual needs of the astronauts.

I wouldn't worry too much about the weight, we can send the Bible along as an e-book.  And I bet we'll send an American flag along; that takes up weight that could be devoted to food, too, but it is important to the spirit of the mission.

Vastet wrote:
My guess is yes. For symbolic reasons. Should it be? Meh. Maybe as a representation of mans success, but not as a religious one. Since religion is part of the reason we don't already have a colony there...
Would you care to back that statement up with proof?  It's very easy to blame some group of people whom you don't like, it's quite another to make a statement like that without evidence.  So, if you have evidence that religion has held back a Mars colony, it will surprise me (most of the Christians I know support space exploration--God gave us a big universe for a reason, so why not see what wonders he has created for us!), I'd love to hear it.  And, if you don't, I think you owe an apology to the religious.

Read the history of humanity, focussing on the last 2000 years. If you haven't seen the insane amounts of proof within it, then you're not qualified to continue this conversation.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


RespectfulButBe...
Posts: 48
Joined: 2009-02-22
User is offlineOffline
if there are insane amounts of proof, humor me by pointing to 1

Quote:
Read the history of humanity, focussing on the last 2000 years. If you haven't seen the insane amounts of proof within it, then you're not qualified to continue this conversation.
I thought this was the RATIONAL response squad, not the I CAN'T BE BOTHERED TO PROVE MY STATMENT response squad.  It's sad that you prefer to use personal attacks in place of arguments, but, frankly, I'm pretty used to that with  a certain breed of athiest, the one that has read Wikipedia articles on science but never really studied science himself/herself.  Well, now you're up against an honest to God physicist (me), and real scientists don't buy into arguments that aren't backed by specific evidence.  "Insane amounts" is evidence of your ignorance, not evidence supporting your thesis.  BTW, I minored in History (mostly European), so I think I know a thing or two about history as well.

If you want to try to prove your point, I'll make it easy for you.  Name a single technology that is essential for space travel that Christians held back in such a way that it delayed the exploration of outer space.  You've got a bunch to chose from:  rocketry, existence of oxygen, metallurgy, Newtonian physics, just pick one and show how Christians caused that to delay the space program, and you win.   But you can't, and we both know it.

Once an athiest, now a believer, and always ready to debate issues respectfully.


pauljohntheskeptic
atheistSilver Member
pauljohntheskeptic's picture
Posts: 2484
Joined: 2008-02-26
User is offlineOffline
RespectfulButBelieving

RespectfulButBelieving wrote:

 

I wouldn't worry too much about the weight, we can send the Bible along as an e-book.  And I bet we'll send an American flag along; that takes up weight that could be devoted to food, too, but it is important to the spirit of the mission.

I imagine the Bible, the Koran. the Book of Mormon and others will all go as Ebooks as well as an entire library of books, technical journals, DVDs, porn movies, magazines and TV shows. It will take around 3 years to go there and come back and you never know they may get stuck there. In the event they are trapped and can find a way to get air and food they will have a long wait for a rescue mission so they might need a whole lot of entertainment.

 

____________________________________________________________
"I guess it's time to ask if you live under high voltage power transmission lines which have been shown to cause stimulation of the fantasy centers of the brain due to electromagnetic waves?" - Me

"God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, - it says so right here on the label. If you have a mind capable of believing all three of these divine attributes simultaneously, I have a wonderful bargain for you. No checks please. Cash and in small bills." - Robert A Heinlein.


Vastet
atheistBloggerHigh Level ModeratorSuperfan
Vastet's picture
Posts: 10688
Joined: 2006-12-25
User is offlineOffline
RespectfulButBelieving

RespectfulButBelieving wrote:

Quote:
Read the history of humanity, focussing on the last 2000 years. If you haven't seen the insane amounts of proof within it, then you're not qualified to continue this conversation.
I thought this was the RATIONAL response squad, not the I CAN'T BE BOTHERED TO PROVE MY STATMENT response squad.

I'd love to see how much effort you'd put into a post after spending hours on them repeatedly only to see them ignored. If you don't get it yet, I'll point it out when it happens.

RespectfulButBelieving wrote:
  It's sad that you prefer to use personal attacks in place of arguments, but, frankly, I'm pretty used to that with  a certain breed of athiest, the one that has read Wikipedia articles on science but never really studied science himself/herself.

How amusing: projection. I havn't made a single attack. Yet. This false accusation brings me very close though. Watch yourself.

RespectfulButBelieving wrote:

  Well, now you're up against an honest to God physicist (me),

We'll see about that.

RespectfulButBelieving wrote:
 and real scientists don't buy into arguments that aren't backed by specific evidence.  "Insane amounts" is evidence of your ignorance, not evidence supporting your thesis.

You wish.

RespectfulButBelieving wrote:
  BTW, I minored in History (mostly European), so I think I know a thing or two about history as well.

We'll see.

RespectfulButBelieving wrote:

If you want to try to prove your point, I'll make it easy for you.  Name a single technology that is essential for space travel that Christians held back in such a way that it delayed the exploration of outer space.

How about our understanding of Earth neither being the centre of the solar system, nor the centre of the universe. Just to start, of course. I can point to the flat earth society as a surviving member of that crap.

How about libraries that were burned?

How about the crusades?

RespectfulButBelieving wrote:
  You've got a bunch to chose from:  rocketry, existence of oxygen, metallurgy, Newtonian physics, just pick one and show how Christians caused that to delay the space program, and you win.   But you can't, and we both know it.

Just did. Try again.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


KSMB
Scientist
KSMB's picture
Posts: 702
Joined: 2006-08-03
User is offlineOffline
RespectfulButBelieving

RespectfulButBelieving wrote:
Well, now you're up against an honest to God physicist (me)

You're a physicist? You work with it professionally? Where did you get your degree, and what was your specific field?


HisWillness
atheistRational VIP!
HisWillness's picture
Posts: 4100
Joined: 2008-02-21
User is offlineOffline
KSMB

KSMB wrote:

RespectfulButBelieving wrote:
Well, now you're up against an honest to God physicist (me)

You're a physicist? You work with it professionally? Where did you get your degree, and what was your specific field?

Dude doesn't seem to want to give up that top-secret piece of information.

Saint Will: no gyration without funkstification.
fabulae! nil satis firmi video quam ob rem accipere hunc mi expediat metum. - Terence


RespectfulButBe...
Posts: 48
Joined: 2009-02-22
User is offlineOffline
Vastet wrote:I'd love to

Vastet wrote:
I'd love to see how much effort you'd put into a post after spending hours on them repeatedly only to see them ignored. If you don't get it yet, I'll point it out when it happens.
You've always got a glib excuse handy for why you can't post any evidence.  And you never post evidence, just opinions and excuses.  I promise, I won't ignore your post if it has some substance.

Quote:
How amusing: projection. I havn't made a single attack. Yet. This false accusation brings me very close though. Watch yourself.
How amusing: self-deception.  Saying that anyone who disagrees with you isn't qualified to be in a discussion is an attack.  I don't care if you attack me, since I think--and it's just a personal opinion--that you're an anti-Christian bigot who likes to talk (a LOT) but can't back up a single thing he says.  Anyway, after this post, I'm done arguing with you until you start making arguments and not just noise, because I really don't consider your unsupported but nevertheless ubiquitous opinions to be worthy of debate.

Quote:
How about our understanding of Earth neither being the centre of the solar system, nor the centre of the universe. Just to start, of course. I can point to the flat earth society as a surviving member of that crap.
The technology to reach space wasn't developed until the 20th Century.  Science widely accepted the solar-centric model of the solar system 400 years earlier.  I asked for a technology that Christians repressed that delayed the space program, not a technology that Christians repressed that did not delay the space program.

Quote:
How about libraries that were burned?
What technology was lost in a burned library?

Quote:
How about the crusades?
Unless the arabs were ready to launch a moonshot in the 13th Century, that hardly demonstrates that Christians held back the space program.

Quote:
Just did. Try again.
The crusades.  I admit it, I'm just not capable of debating on your level.

KSMB wrote:
You're a physicist? You work with it professionally? Where did you get your degree, and what was your specific field?
I am a professor of physics.  I got my PhD in physics at Harvard.  I work in the area of condensed matter physics.

Once an athiest, now a believer, and always ready to debate issues respectfully.


Vastet
atheistBloggerHigh Level ModeratorSuperfan
Vastet's picture
Posts: 10688
Joined: 2006-12-25
User is offlineOffline
RespectfulButBelieving

RespectfulButBelieving wrote:

Vastet wrote:
I'd love to see how much effort you'd put into a post after spending hours on them repeatedly only to see them ignored. If you don't get it yet, I'll point it out when it happens.
You've always got a glib excuse handy for why you can't post any evidence.  And you never post evidence, just opinions and excuses.  I promise, I won't ignore your post if it has some substance.

Glib nothing. I explained my response, and gave you a new one. If you don't like it, you can shove it up your ass.

Also, you haven't done a single thing to prove your own assertions. To demand proof from me begs hypocrisy. Any bald assertions I've made have been in response to your own.

Beyond that, the idea that I haven't proved myself just shows how completely ignorant you are on the subject of logic.

RespectfulButBelieving wrote:

Quote:
How amusing: projection. I havn't made a single attack. Yet. This false accusation brings me very close though. Watch yourself.

How amusing: self-deception.

We'll add that to your list of "sins".

RespectfulButBelieving wrote:
  Saying that anyone who disagrees with you isn't qualified to be in a discussion is an attack. 

I never said that. Now you're changing my words.

RespectfulButBelieving wrote:
 I don't care if you attack me, since I think--and it's just a personal opinion--that you're an anti-Christian bigot who likes to talk (a LOT)

Rofl. I'm not an anti christian bigot. I hate all religions equally. But that doesn't mean I hate the people within those religions. Everyone is different, and I always judge them on their own terms. You have lied, put words in my mouth, and denied logic even when I named the very fallacies you were guilty of using in your arguments. That makes you an asshole. So I'll treat you like one.

 

RespectfulButBelieving wrote:
 but can't back up a single thing he says.

I've backed up everything. It's long past being your turn.

RespectfulButBelieving wrote:
  Anyway, after this post, I'm done arguing with you until you start making arguments and not just noise, because I really don't consider your unsupported but nevertheless ubiquitous opinions to be worthy of debate.

So you forfeit and pretend it didn't happen in the face of complete annihlation. Like most of your type.

RespectfulButBelieving wrote:

Quote:
How about our understanding of Earth neither being the centre of the solar system, nor the centre of the universe. Just to start, of course. I can point to the flat earth society as a surviving member of that crap.

The technology to reach space wasn't developed until the 20th Century.  Science widely accepted the solar-centric model of the solar system 400 years earlier.  I asked for a technology that Christians repressed that delayed the space program, not a technology that Christians repressed that did not delay the space program.

You don't get it. Science is built on science. Anything repressed means everything is repressed.

RespectfulButBelieving wrote:

Quote:
How about libraries that were burned?

What technology was lost in a burned library?

What technology would be lost if an emp hit earth? Gee, I wonder. They didn't have computers back then, they had books to keep information and discoveries in. Burning libraries sets back progress. Just how much do you need to be led through reality?

RespectfulButBelieving wrote:

Quote:
How about the crusades?

Unless the arabs were ready to launch a moonshot in the 13th Century, that hardly demonstrates that Christians held back the space program.

The Arabs and Jews in the Middle East were FAR ahead of the Europeans in science. Until the crusades.

RespectfulButBelieving wrote:

Quote:
Just did. Try again.

The crusades.  I admit it, I'm just not capable of debating on your level.

I doubt you're capable of debating on a 5 year olds level, let alone mine.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


Christos
Theist
Christos's picture
Posts: 311
Joined: 2007-06-05
User is offlineOffline
Vastet, you are an

Vastet, you are an incredibly arrogant debater on these forums. Respectful asked you to back up your statements with evidence and you couldn't. He gave you a list of aspects of space travel and you failed to prove how Christianity inhibited those aspects.

Instead of making arguments with evidence, you just throw out insults and act like you're the most brilliant person on Earth. Get over yourself.

Now I await your typical response filled with personal attacks. You're always entertaining Vastet.

"A man can no more diminish God's glory by refusing to worship Him than a lunatic can put out the sun by scribbling the word, 'darkness' on the walls of his cell." (CS Lewis)

"A young man who wishes to remain a sound atheist cannot be too careful of his reading." (CS Lewis)


Vastet
atheistBloggerHigh Level ModeratorSuperfan
Vastet's picture
Posts: 10688
Joined: 2006-12-25
User is offlineOffline
Christos wrote:Vastet, you

Christos wrote:

Vastet, you are an incredibly arrogant debater on these forums.

Not so fun when it's coming from the other side is it?

Christos wrote:

Respectful asked you to back up your statements with evidence and you couldn't. He gave you a list of aspects of space travel and you failed to prove how Christianity inhibited those aspects.

I more than proved it. Ignoring reality is a common theist response.

Christos wrote:
Instead of making arguments with evidence, you just throw out insults and act like you're the most brilliant person on Earth. Get over yourself.

Personal attacks are not helping your case at all.

Christos wrote:

Now I await your typical response filled with personal attacks. You're always entertaining Vastet.

There's that theist projection again. It is quite obvious who came in throwing the insults around.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.