The State

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The State

 

What is actually the state ? How is this stated distinguished from the not state ? How is it different from private persons ? Can some one explain this to me ?


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The "state" usually refers

The "state" usually refers to a government, a government agency, or individuals working for the government towards what the government considers a desirable outcome. The state can be a prosecutor in a criminal case. The state can be the elected, appointed, or self appointed "leader"(ie: Prime Minister, President, Dictator, King/Queen, etc.) of a government or any member thereof(minister, legislative member, congress, etc.). Also, a state can refer to a nation or specified portion of a nation.

In short, it's rather complicated.

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Vastet wrote:The "state"

Vastet wrote:

The "state" usually refers to a government, a government agency, or individuals working for the government towards what the government considers a desirable outcome. The state can be a prosecutor in a criminal case. The state can be the elected, appointed, or self appointed "leader"(ie: Prime Minister, President, Dictator, King/Queen, etc.) of a government or any member thereof(minister, legislative member, congress, etc.). Also, a state can refer to a nation or specified portion of a nation.

In short, it's rather complicated.

 

 

It sounds contradictory there is no definition in your response you seam for the most part to substitute the word state with the word government define government.

 

O and is a team lender a state ? Is Jo Swenson the ledger of the football team a state ? If a definition haze multiple meanings it needs to be abandoned and replaced via more precise definition otherwise its nonsensical.

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Dude... Seriously... What's

Dude... Seriously... What's the point of this question?

Have you considered a dictionary?


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 I have  looked into a

 

I have  looked into a dictionary however the definition is ironies and contradictory.

My definition probing is similar to scientific investigation about things like “what is motion” , just like in the philosophical saying there more you know the les you know.

The answer to this question will be quite surprising to every human .

Warning I’m not a native English speaker.

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carx wrote:I have  looked

carx wrote:
I have  looked into a dictionary however the definition is ironies and contradictory.

My definition probing is similar to scientific investigation about things like “what is motion” , just like in the philosophical saying there more you know the les you know.

The answer to this question will be quite surprising to every human .

No.  No, it is not scientific.  You are so wrong here, carx.  Words can have multiple (even contradictory) definitions and still be meaningful.  English is not your first language and you, apparently, don't appreciate the diversity of syntax and topic dependant nuance in the language's lexicon.

The state is defined as:

 

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) -  /steɪt/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciationnoun, adjective, verb, stat·ed, stat·ing. –noun

1. the condition of a person or thing, as with respect to circumstances or attributes: a state of health.
2. the condition of matter with respect to structure, form, constitution, phase, or the like: water in a gaseous state.
3. status, rank, or position in life; station: He dresses in a manner befitting his state.
4. the style of living befitting a person of wealth and high rank: to travel in state.
5. a particular condition of mind or feeling: to be in an excited state.
6. an abnormally tense, nervous, or perturbed condition: He's been in a state since hearing about his brother's death.
7. a politically unified people occupying a definite territory; nation.
8. the territory, or one of the territories, of a government.
9. (sometimes initial capital letter) any of the bodies politic which together make up a federal union, as in the United States of America.
10. the body politic as organized for civil rule and government (distinguished from church).
11. the operations or activities of a central civil government: affairs of state.
12. (initial capital letter) Also called State Department. Informal. the Department of State.
13. Printing. a set of copies of an edition of a publication which differ from others of the same printing because of additions, corrections, or transpositions made during printing or at any time before publication.
14. the States, Informal. the United States (usually used outside its borders): After a year's study in Spain, he returned to the States.

–adjective

15. of or pertaining to the central civil government or authority.
16. made, maintained, or chartered by or under the authority of one of the commonwealths that make up a federal union: a state highway; a state bank.
17. characterized by, attended with, or involving ceremony: a state dinner.
18. used on or reserved for occasions of ceremony.

–verb (used with object)

19. to declare definitely or specifically: She stated her position on the case.
20. to set forth formally in speech or writing: to state a hypothesis.
21. to set forth in proper or definite form: to state a problem.
22. to say.
23. to fix or settle, as by authority.

24. lie in state, (of a corpse) to be exhibited publicly with honors before burial: The president's body lay in state for two days.

 As you can see, there are many uses of the word that are syntax and topic dependant.  They are discrete definitions.  What you are spouting is total nonsense.  Stop it.  Find the definition of the word that fits the use you wish and simply use it contextually and no one will have any problem understanding you.  Merely because you do not understand the word and its myriad uses is no good reason for the word to be sumarily dismissed as meaningless ((or as containing ironies (another word you don't understand) and contradictions).

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Most words have multiple

Most words have multiple meanings, some actually have opposite meanings most of philosophy tends to get drawn into which version of a definition you want to use.

I can give you a good example

 

the word 'republic'

 

to most of the world this means any nation that doesnt have an inherited head of state ie a monarch, so a brutal dictatorship that turned its children into cheeseburgers every 3rd tuesday to celebrate the glory of the president would be a republic. USA, France, China Syria, Afghanistan pre and post taliban were/are  all republics

 

Now in America it generally tends to have a different meaning 'a state in which the supreme power rests in the body of citizens entitled to vote and is exercised by representatives chosen directly or indirectly by them. ' . Lots of nice fluffy things about people power, you couldnt be a nasty country and be a republic.

 

Both meanings are correct but you try to discuss this with defining which one you are using first then the conversation is completely meaningless


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 I’m aware of

 

I’m aware of overindexing in languages , however I’m

 Asking specifically about state/government like the state/government of the USA , Poland , France …

Dictionaries have mostly definitions like from retarded farmers “ yyy government yyy something that governs you yyyyy like the USA yyy you know what I’m talking about hehehe”( note dictionaries use the most common usage of a word , with is to say its like most peoples opinion on something this is a form of a logical fallacy its like asking most people in the USA “is evolution correct” this type of defining haze a name appeal to popularity ).

Devise method of categorizing something for a government/state and demonstrate the application of this method to classify something for governments/states or not.

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Well I think in the context

Well I think in the context of your question

State and government are two different things.

 

State to me is a politically and geographically area which encompasses all materials including all human beings, all mineral resources. all economic activity private (state generally doesnt own the private wealth but still encompasses it) and public, all airspace (up to a non-defined height, the Russians I believe once tried to claim that it went to infinity but that would be a little silly), ie the state is a country.

 

Government is the part of the state that is dedicated to organising and running it. how of this is left to private hands depends on the state


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mrjonno wrote:Well I think

mrjonno wrote:

Well I think in the context of your question

State and government are two different things.

 

State to me is a politically and geographically area which encompasses all materials including all human beings, all mineral resources. all economic activity private (state generally doesnt own the private wealth but still encompasses it) and public, all airspace (up to a non-defined height, the Russians I believe once tried to claim that it went to infinity but that would be a little silly), ie the state is a country.

 

Government is the part of the state that is dedicated to organising and running it. how of this is left to private hands depends on the state

 

Still this is NOT what I asked for. Where is your method of analysis ?! The criteria the criteria list the criteria of defining something for a state/government (for contextual reasons).

 

Besides this makes no sense what so ever stop and think about this I have political ideas and policies regarding my property and my land therefore my property and I are a state.

Define country + methods of analysis and classification , Define government + methods of analysis and classification . Are you arguing that the state is a synonym for the word area ?

 

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State is a synonym for the

State is a synonym for the word country yes which you of course are part of

 

 


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carx wrote: Define country

carx wrote:

 

Define country + methods of analysis and classification , Define government + methods of analysis and classification .

 

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carx wrote:mrjonno

carx wrote:

mrjonno wrote:

Well I think in the context of your question

State and government are two different things.

 

State to me is a politically and geographically area which encompasses all materials including all human beings, all mineral resources. all economic activity private (state generally doesnt own the private wealth but still encompasses it) and public, all airspace (up to a non-defined height, the Russians I believe once tried to claim that it went to infinity but that would be a little silly), ie the state is a country.

 

Government is the part of the state that is dedicated to organising and running it. how of this is left to private hands depends on the state

 

Still this is NOT what I asked for. Where is your method of analysis ?! The criteria the criteria list the criteria of defining something for a state/government (for contextual reasons).

 

Besides this makes no sense what so ever stop and think about this I have political ideas and policies regarding my property and my land therefore my property and I are a state.

Define country + methods of analysis and classification , Define government + methods of analysis and classification . Are you arguing that the state is a synonym for the word area ?

 

i can totally tell you're not a native speaker.  i've been teaching english in slovakia for 2 years now and you sound like all my other students, who just can't accept that some words have no precise definition.  i've even had a few adult students get hostile with me, i guess because they think i'm keeping some big secret from them.  at that point i usually just make shit up to make them happy.

"state" is defined differently by different theoreticians: rousseau, robespierre, hobbes, locke, hume, swift, mill, smith, marx, lenin--they all define it in the way most convenient for them.  in popular usage, it's usually synonymous with "government."

that's the best anybody can do for you, dude, sorry.  then again, you seem like you already have something specific in mind.  why not just tell us exactly what you want to hear?

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I said, 'Father change my name.'
The one I'm using now it's covered up
with fear and filth and cowardice and shame."
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iwbiek wrote: then again,

iwbiek wrote:

  then again, you seem like you already have something specific in mind.  why not just tell us exactly what you want to hear?

 

 

Well in short there is no government no state and no countries (its not a language thing) the definitions are ironies , contradictory and simply retarded. There is no difference between private business and a government operated business and actually the words government and person are interchangeable and a government is a type of private person like a private person is a type of government. The only real difference is that some of them are over systems , high systems , low  systems and under systems.

 

Or is someone suggesting otherwise maybe then you show me the precise method of distinguishing between a government/state /USA and a private person ?   

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carx wrote:iwbiek wrote: 

carx wrote:

iwbiek wrote:

  then again, you seem like you already have something specific in mind.  why not just tell us exactly what you want to hear?

 

 

Well in short there is no government no state and no countries (its not a language thing) the definitions are ironies , contradictory and simply retarded. There is no difference between private business and a government operated business and actually the words government and person are interchangeable and a government is a type of private person like a private person is a type of government. The only real difference is that some of them are over systems , high systems , low  systems and under systems.

 

Or is someone suggesting otherwise maybe then you show me the precise method of distinguishing between a government/state /USA and a private person ?   

Perhaps as Americans we know "instinctively" how to use and interpret "state" within our own language.  Our comprehension may be more idiosyncratic than scientific.     If that is still not clear to you then perhaps you could consume a vast amount of your favorite alcoholic beverage and ponder the concept yet again. The answer may come to you then.  Cheers. 

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carx wrote:Well in short

carx wrote:

Well in short there is no government no state and no countries (its not a language thing) the definitions are ironies , contradictory and simply retarded. There is no difference between private business and a government operated business and actually the words government and person are interchangeable and a government is a type of private person like a private person is a type of government. The only real difference is that some of them are over systems , high systems , low  systems and under systems.

Or is someone suggesting otherwise maybe then you show me the precise method of distinguishing between a government/state /USA and a private person ?

Carx, you don't know what an irony is.  You use the word incorrectly.  The definitions don't need to be consistent with each other.  Many words, as I've pointed out to you, can have different meanings that are also contradictory.  I even pointed you to a list of possible meanings for the word 'state', many of which have nothing to do with the other definitions except for the lexeme 'state'.  Country also has many possible meanings.  The same with government.  And there is a difference between government businesses and private businesses.  In Canada we have Crown Corporations.  These are businesses run by the government.  See the difference?  They're not private!  Learn to read.  Learn to understand the definitions and the differences in use.  This is a language problem for you.  The definitions of 'state' are very clear, or at least they're clear enough that everyone who can speak English manages to use them to refer to the things they mean to and are understood, except you!  If you are the only one with a problem, Carx, it's safe to assume that the problem lies with you and not with anything else.

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 I comprehend everything

 

I comprehend everything however its NOT a language issue.

I do understand the concept of government like I understand the concept of god.

However both concepts  (god and government ) are nonexistent self-contradiction like most of gods attributes are contradictory so the concepts of private person and government are identical in every aspect contradicting a nonexistent distinction .

 

I understand the words now please

Devise a method of analysis to distinguished between a government and a private person

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carx wrote: I understand

carx wrote:

 I understand the words now please

Devise a method of analysis to distinguished between a government and a private person

, Warning this massage will be repeated until answered.

and why should we do this exactly?

you can repeat your massage anytime you want, doll-face.

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I said, 'Father change my name.'
The one I'm using now it's covered up
with fear and filth and cowardice and shame."
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Maybe because the topic is

 

Maybe because the topic is about this ?

Or how about the burden of proof ? You are claming that a fictitious distinction between private persons and the government exists .

Maybe I drop the inquiry bullshit and go on the offensive because you seam to not comprehend my questions.

 

Lets assume a ideal anarcho capitalist world every government despairs and there are only private persons. Now some private persons start to offer licensing of their land (think hotel stile) with some benefits. The private businesses start to buy out  other land and expand their territory , at a cretin point the individuals start to make rules and of course they charge money for the inhabitances of their lands (in libertarianism you can do everything on your land [restrictions included ] ). Now explain to me how my presentations of this scenario is different from a government ? How do you distinguished between a government and my examples of private businesses that I have described in the absence of government ? The answer you don’t , the government is in fact a private person or more correctly there are no private ownership or government ownership there are only systems.

 

Now address this !

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carx wrote: Maybe because

carx wrote:

 

Maybe because the topic is about this

well, i thought the topic was about you wanting the exact definition of a word.

carx wrote:

Or how about the burden of proof ? You are claming that a fictitious distinction between private persons and the government exists

quote me making this claim (or any claim on this thread).

carx wrote:

Maybe I drop the inquiry bullshit and go on the offens

ive because you seam to not comprehend my questions.

i understand everything, i just think you're nuts.

carx wrote:

Now address this !

no.

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I said, 'Father change my name.'
The one I'm using now it's covered up
with fear and filth and cowardice and shame."
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The distinction is that an

The distinction is that an individual cannot be 'the state'. An individual can only represent the state.

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Vastet wrote:The distinction

Vastet wrote:
The distinction is that an individual cannot be 'the state'. An individual can only represent the state.

 

Again you simply assume the existence of the super magical thing that you name state/government. Its like saying humans can not be elf’s they can only represent elf’s is this a valid response if someone asks for the determining method for the concept of state/government ?

This is starting to sound silly , don’t you understand my questions ? Give me the method for determining if something is state/government. Give me the exact procedure or stop using a nonexistent concept.

 

PS: There are no individuals this word is meaningless if you are familiar with modern biology or do you assume you are not composed of cells and subsystems that function mechanically ? Do you suggest that you are a indivisible magical chunk that is powered by magic ?  I did never use the word individual I used the word person.

 

iwbiek wrote:


carx wrote:

Maybe I drop the inquiry bullshit and go on the offens

ive because you seam to not comprehend my questions.


i understand everything, i just think you're nuts.

carx wrote:

Now address this !

no.

O great master of logic , your answer shakes me to my core , your response is so perfect so powerful so full of win that every logician flees in terror. Your irrefutable response of pure logic using such excellent words like “NO” and “you are nuts” is so perfectly logical that no logician can refute this. Truly you know how to make a statement and not make a idiot out of yourself that doesn’t understand the concept of ad homonym . You truly don’t look like a retarded 13 yare old kid on the interne rather you amaze everyone with your knowledge rather then amuse everyone with your stupidity.

 

 

 

 

iwbiek wrote:

carx wrote:

Maybe because the topic is about this

well, i thought the topic was about you wanting the exact definition of a word.

Actually its about a concept that is not defined  state/government like in the phrase the "USA is a government/state " provide a method of showing what is and what is not a government/state then maybe we can classify this nonsensical notion for fiction because write now its nothing absolutely nothing.
 

 

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carx wrote: iwbiek

carx wrote:

O great master of logic , your answer shakes me to my core , your response is so perfect so powerful so full of win that every logician flees in terror. Your irrefutable response of pure logic using such excellent words like “NO” and “you are nuts” is so perfectly logical that no logician can refute this. Truly you know how to make a statement and not make a idiot out of yourself that doesn’t understand the concept of ad homonym . You truly don’t look like a retarded 13 yare old kid on the interne rather you amaze everyone with your knowledge rather then amuse everyone with your stupidity.

i'm stupid???  you're the motherfucker who started arguing with me about things i never said.  i know you're trying to play some socratic game here, but all i'm saying by "no" is i'm not interested.  and i think you're nuts because you're trying to show off your logic skills by arguing against assertions i never made.

carx wrote:

 

Actually its about a concept that is not defined  state/government like in the phrase the "USA is a government/state " provide a method of showing what is and what is not a government/state then maybe we can classify this nonsensical notion for fiction because write now its nothing absolutely nothing.
 

WHEN DID I EVER SAY THERE WAS SUCH A THING AS A "STATE" OR "GOVERNMENT" APART FROM THE PEOPLE????  PLEASE POINT THIS OUT!!!  GO AHEAD AND "CLASSIFY IT FOR FICTION"!  I DON'T GIVE A FLYING FUCK!  ALL I DID WAS TRY TO TELL YOU WHAT THOSE WORDS MEAN FOR MOST PEOPLE!

let me be clear:

I HAVE NO MOTHERFUCKING OPINION ON THE MATTER.

jesus, there are so many fucking pedants on this sight who can't wait to start an argument, they'll start one about the most trivial shit.  fuck...

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I said, 'Father change my name.'
The one I'm using now it's covered up
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carx wrote:Vastet wrote:The

carx wrote:

Vastet wrote:
The distinction is that an individual cannot be 'the state'. An individual can only represent the state.

 Again you simply assume the existence of the super magical thing that you name state/government. Its like saying humans can not be elf’s they can only represent elf’s is this a valid response if someone asks for the determining method for the concept of state/government ?

That is an invalid metaphor. Elves do not exist. Governments do exist.

carx wrote:
This is starting to sound silly , don’t you understand my questions ? Give me the method for determining if something is state/government. Give me the exact procedure or stop using a nonexistent concept.

Look at the definition for government.

carx wrote:

PS: There are no individuals this word is meaningless if you are familiar with modern biology or do you assume you are not composed of cells and subsystems that function mechanically ?

We are still individuals. The collective cells in our bodies make singular entities. My arm doesn't detach and go off to do it's own thing when it's bored of me playing video games all day.

carx wrote:
 Do you suggest that you are a indivisible magical chunk that is powered by magic ?  I did never use the word individual I used the word person.

A person is an individual.

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Vastet wrote: A person is an

 

Vastet wrote:

A person is an individual.

 You don’t know how silly his sound for someone familiar with low HAHAHA Laughing out loud. Maybe you help yourself out with some knowledge
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juristic_person

A corporation is consider a person silly Laughing out loud do you know what you are even talking about ? Corporations are individuals ? LOL I did say private person not individual stick with my exact words. Do you know how silly this sounds Laughing out loud especially in the light of the rest of your post ?


Vastet wrote:

carx wrote:

PS: There are no individuals this word is meaningless if you are familiar with modern biology or do you assume you are not composed of cells and subsystems that function mechanically ?

We are still individuals. The collective cells in our bodies make singular entities. My arm doesn't detach and go off to do it's own thing when it's bored of me playing video games all day.


Yet they make decisions in their information processing that you can not influence and you are the sum of neurons (neurons are cells if you didn’t know  ) that make thus decisions in a sense your neurons play the game not you. Your personality is nothing more then a sum of processes of neurons so a different sum of processes can be named a individual according to your classification method. If you think you are a individual because you are the result of neurons making decisions for your arms and processing information then so is a board of directors for a corporation its neurons making a corporation a individual and the same applies for the USA . 
However one superstition in one post this is way off topic.

Vastet wrote:

carx wrote:

Vastet wrote:
The distinction is that an individual cannot be 'the state'. An individual can only represent the state.

 Again you simply assume the existence of the super magical thing that you name state/government. Its like saying humans can not be elf’s they can only represent elf’s is this a valid response if someone asks for the determining method for the concept of state/government ?

That is an invalid metaphor. Elves do not exist. Governments do exist.


If I make up a classification with the name X1 and give examples of different systems in them and refuse to give the method of classification do you think this is a valid classification method ? You see fictional creatures are not real however they are defined the class government/s is not it’s a meaningless word like X1 its nothing absolutely nothing , fictional creatures are at least defined your right its wasn’t a valid comparison government classification doesn’t meat the standard for something fictional its simply nothing some  meaningless noise .

I don’t believe in the arbitrary classification group named “government” I believe the things in the group exists the classification is simply a nonexistent one. I believe the USA exists its simply inset a government it’s a system like KFC or Microsoft . Did I clarify stuff for you ?
PS: Substitute the word government with the word gods “Gods exist fictional creatures don’t end of story” is this a valid argument ? Use logic before making a statement.

 

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Now you're starting to piss

Now you're starting to piss me off. Word games piss me off big time.


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MattShizzle wrote:Now you're

MattShizzle wrote:

Now you're starting to piss me off. Word games piss me off big time.

 

HEHEHE ^.^

Why ?  :D 

I’m simply logical to my bones. What word games ?

 

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Carx, it's extremely

Carx, it's extremely difficult to read what you've posted in post #24.  There is very little that you've written that even appears to make sense.  I understand that English is not your first language and that, obviously, you are not particularly skilled at writting in it.  Could you please rewrite what you posted and try to keep your sentences short and concise?

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"Well the things that happen less often are more likely to be the result of the supper natural. A thing like loosing my keys in the morning is not likely supper natural, but finding a thousand dollars or meeting a celebrity might be."


carx
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Thomathy wrote:Carx, it's

Thomathy wrote:

Carx, it's extremely difficult to read what you've posted in post #24.  There is very little that you've written that even appears to make sense.  I understand that English is not your first language and that, obviously, you are not particularly skilled at writting in it.  Could you please rewrite what you posted and try to keep your sentences short and concise?

 

OK :

1)      I see no prove for the existence of a classification class named government.

2)      Can someone correct me a and pervade a method of analysis that shows what supposed to be classified for a government ?

3)      I classify the USA , Germany , Poland … for a legal person-private person/ corporation

4)      Is this clear ?

 

Warning I’m not a native English speaker.

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*Shrug* I made an honest and

*Shrug*
I made an honest and friendly attempt to help you understand, and the response I get has the ability to start a four page argument that degenerates into something not worth my time. I'll just quit wasting my time now instead.

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