the god delusion strikes again

latincanuck
atheist
latincanuck's picture
Posts: 2036
Joined: 2007-06-01
User is offlineOffline
the god delusion strikes again

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,341574,00.html

 

Yet in another set back for common sense, a 11 year old girl died because her parents believed in the power of prayer to cure her over the abilities and knowledge of a medical staff to diagnose and cure her. She basically died of diabetes, which if her parents had taken her to the doctor, he could have basically saved her. But no, they believe in god so strongly that they deluded themselves (this is my opinion at this point) into thinking that this imaginary deity would cure their daughter of her ailments and the mother still believes that her daughter could be resurrected if she prays and has enough faith....yes people if she has enough faith in an deity that has shown itself not to exist. Mark another one for the delusion of god. I say charge them with child abuse, endangerment and murder, because this idiotic belief in a god should not be a valid excuse for not having common sense.


JillSwift
Superfan
JillSwift's picture
Posts: 1758
Joined: 2008-01-13
User is offlineOffline
latincanuck wrote:(this is

latincanuck wrote:
(this is my opinion at this point)
Sounds more like a statement of fact, to me. The worst part of stories like this is, the parents' faith is unaffected. Sometimes it's even stronger.

Diabetic ketoacidosis is horrible. I can not see how the local authorities say they see no signs of abuse after they allowed their daughter to die a slow, agonizing death. Unquestioning respect for religion is even more sick than the religions it protects.

 

"Anyone can repress a woman, but you need 'dictated' scriptures to feel you're really right in repressing her. In the same way, homophobes thrive everywhere. But you must feel you've got scripture on your side to come up with the tedious 'Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve' style arguments instead of just recognising that some people are different." - Douglas Murray


HisWillness
atheistRational VIP!
HisWillness's picture
Posts: 4100
Joined: 2008-02-21
User is offlineOffline
 I seriously feel sick

 I seriously feel sick after reading that. That's just disgusting.


HeyZeusCreaseToe
Superfan
HeyZeusCreaseToe's picture
Posts: 675
Joined: 2008-02-27
User is offlineOffline
Thats a horrible story

Thats a horrible story


Loc
Superfan
Loc's picture
Posts: 1130
Joined: 2007-11-06
User is offlineOffline
[quote-the news]The girl has

the news wrote:

The girl has three siblings, ranging in age from 13 to 16, the police chief said.

"They are still in the home," he said. "There is no reason to remove them. There is no abuse or signs of abuse that we can see."

What the hell do you call letting there child die in front of them for no reason!How much more of a reason do you want?!

Incredible. If these people were just too lazy/uncaring to take her to the doctor they'd be arrested. But because it's their faith no one can touch them.

Psalm 14:1 "the fool hath said in his heart there is a God"-From a 1763 misprinted edition of the bible

dudeofthemoment wrote:
This is getting redudnant. My patience with the unteachable[atheists] is limited.

Argument from Sadism: Theist presents argument in a wall of text with no punctuation and wrong spelling. Atheist cannot read and is forced to concede.


MattShizzle
Posts: 7966
Joined: 2006-03-31
User is offlineOffline
That is unbelievably fucked

That is unbelievably fucked up. How the fuck can they say there's no reason to remove the other kids? Imagine if they had believed that aliens would come and heal the girl - they'd have taken the kids and sent the parents to the nuthouse most likely. And this is different how? Like that old internet picture says - Prayer - how to pretend you're helping without actually doing anything.

Matt Shizzle has been banned from the Rational Response Squad website. This event shall provide an atmosphere more conducive to social growth. - Majority of the mod team


jread
SuperfanTheist
jread's picture
Posts: 353
Joined: 2007-05-17
User is offlineOffline
The parents should be locked

The parents should be locked up.


MattShizzle
Posts: 7966
Joined: 2006-03-31
User is offlineOffline
Believing in God at all is

Believing in God at all is delusional. Dismissing actual medicine (1930s medicine could have kept this girl alive) in favor of useless prayer is insanity. Believing that she may still be resurrected is crazier than a shithouse rat utter batshit-fucking lunacy.

 

Matt Shizzle has been banned from the Rational Response Squad website. This event shall provide an atmosphere more conducive to social growth. - Majority of the mod team


Kevin R Brown
Superfan
Kevin R Brown's picture
Posts: 3142
Joined: 2007-06-24
User is offlineOffline
What the parents see as the

What the parents see as the cause of death?

'We didn't have enough faith.'

This just blows my fucking mind.

 

Religion: overcoming everything from common sense to parental instincts and self-preservation.

Quote:
"Natasha has just come up to the window from the courtyard and opened it wider so that the air may enter more freely into my room. I can see the bright green strip of grass beneath the wall, and the clear blue sky above the wall, and sunlight everywhere. Life is beautiful. Let the future generations cleanse it of all evil, oppression and violence, and enjoy it to the full."

- Leon Trotsky, Last Will & Testament
February 27, 1940


HeyZeusCreaseToe
Superfan
HeyZeusCreaseToe's picture
Posts: 675
Joined: 2008-02-27
User is offlineOffline
Wow MattShizzle, you have

Wow MattShizzle, you have actually come up with a picture even I almost find offensive, and that is hard to do. Almost

“Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.” Yoda


latincanuck
atheist
latincanuck's picture
Posts: 2036
Joined: 2007-06-01
User is offlineOffline
yeah respecting religion

 This is what I always never got, why do we have to respect religion, why do we as a society have to respect religion, why does the law have to respect religion?? This is an ideology, that in this case and in many cases has shown itself to be dangerous to other people, especially to the most vulnerable of our society, children, who can be so abused by those they trust, without knowing that those that they trust, have no clue what they are doing, why do that cops keep those children there? probably because a majority are religious themselves, or the incorrect definition of abuse for that area, they are fed and have no physical signs of abuse, but not taking proper care of a child, and not taking them to the doctor when they are sick to the point of death, that is abuse, i have no clue where this isn't abuse. But hey, lets all respect these peoples rights to believe as they want, right, after all it is their right to believe in god, no matter HOW stupid or delusional it is. Yeah, bullshit but hey, imaginary beings are far more important that human life.


Eloise
Theist
Eloise's picture
Posts: 1804
Joined: 2007-05-26
User is offlineOffline
Kevin R Brown wrote:What the

Kevin R Brown wrote:

What the parents see as the cause of death?

'We didn't have enough faith.'

*screams*  didn't have enough faith! These people are fucking raving! NOW they say that, NOW that it's just a redundant intellectual masturbation they say, 'our faith is the problem'. Why not question their so-called faith while she's still alive and can still be helped FFS! instead of letting the poor girl suffer and lose her life for their vain stupidity. The authorities need to take the other kids away from these narcissistic megalomaniacs. They'll go to these outrageous and cruel lengths for the sake of their their imaginary 'faith' this time without remorse, and they'll do it again.

Theist badge qualifier : Gnostic/Philosophical Panentheist

www.mathematicianspictures.com


MattShizzle
Posts: 7966
Joined: 2006-03-31
User is offlineOffline
I can see the result if the

I can see the result if the parents decided to call on The Flying Spaghetti Monster and feed the kid nothing but pasta until she got better. These parents are asshats who need to be smacked upside the head. And sent to club Cuckoo.

Matt Shizzle has been banned from the Rational Response Squad website. This event shall provide an atmosphere more conducive to social growth. - Majority of the mod team


HeyZeusCreaseToe
Superfan
HeyZeusCreaseToe's picture
Posts: 675
Joined: 2008-02-27
User is offlineOffline

Slimm
Superfan
Slimm's picture
Posts: 167
Joined: 2007-03-15
User is offlineOffline
That's sad...I'm glad Fox

That's sad...I'm glad Fox reported it so people can wake up to reality.

Slimm,


latincanuck
atheist
latincanuck's picture
Posts: 2036
Joined: 2007-06-01
User is offlineOffline
lol

If you think religious folks are going to wake up to reality, it ain't going to happen, some will, but I doubt the majority of hard core religious fanatics will wake up to the fact that their god can cure any sickness or diseases.


theevolvedone
theevolvedone's picture
Posts: 31
Joined: 2008-01-29
User is offlineOffline
Absolutely horrific....This

Absolutely horrific....This should be treated as murder and both parents should recieve the death penalty for what they did to their own daughter.  They murdered her and still have no guilt of what they have done.  This S#@# is just F#$### up.  I dont know how people can be a part of something that death has always surrounded.  Hopefully one day guilt will eat their insides up.  Yet the idiot authorites say there is no reason to remove the siblings....there is plenty of f@##@@@ reason to remove them from a home of murdering religious biggots like this. 

Doubt is the root of all wisdom. - Unknown

Knowing will come from the practice of understanding - Myself


Jeffrick
High Level DonorRational VIP!SuperfanGold Member
Jeffrick's picture
Posts: 2388
Joined: 2008-03-25
User is offlineOffline
preyer

theevolvedone wrote:

Absolutely horrific....This should be treated as murder and both parents should recieve the death penalty for what they did to their own daughter.  They murdered her and still have no guilt of what they have done.  This S#@# is just F#$### up.  I dont know how people can be a part of something that death has always surrounded.  Hopefully one day guilt will eat their insides up.  Yet the idiot authorites say there is no reason to remove the siblings....there is plenty of f@##@@@ reason to remove them from a home of murdering religious biggots like this. 

Speaking to god is called prayer, when god talks back it is schizophrenia.

"Very funny Scotty; now beam down our clothes."

VEGETARIAN: Ancient Hindu word for "lousy hunter"

If man was formed from dirt, why is there still dirt?


Jeffrick
High Level DonorRational VIP!SuperfanGold Member
Jeffrick's picture
Posts: 2388
Joined: 2008-03-25
User is offlineOffline
Athiestcanuck

JillSwift wrote:

latincanuck wrote:
(this is my opinion at this point)
Sounds more like a statement of fact, to me. The worst part of stories like this is, the parents' faith is unaffected. Sometimes it's even stronger.

Speak to god we call prayer, when god speaks back we call schizophrenia, the perents belong in a psycho ward and the surviving children belong somewhere else.

Diabetic ketoacidosis is horrible. I can not see how the local authorities say they see no signs of abuse after they allowed their daughter to die a slow, agonizing death. Unquestioning respect for religion is even more sick than the religions it protects.

 

"Very funny Scotty; now beam down our clothes."

VEGETARIAN: Ancient Hindu word for "lousy hunter"

If man was formed from dirt, why is there still dirt?


Jeffrick
High Level DonorRational VIP!SuperfanGold Member
Jeffrick's picture
Posts: 2388
Joined: 2008-03-25
User is offlineOffline
Athiestcanuck

Jeffrick wrote:

JillSwift wrote:

latincanuck wrote:
(this is my opinion at this point)
Sounds more like a statement of fact, to me. The worst part of stories like this is, the parents' faith is unaffected. Sometimes it's even stronger.

Speak to god we call prayer, when god speaks back we call schizophrenia, the perents belong in a psycho ward and the surviving children belong somewhere else.

Diabetic ketoacidosis is horrible. I can not see how the local authorities say they see no signs of abuse after they allowed their daughter to die a slow, agonizing death. Unquestioning respect for religion is even more sick than the religions it protects.

 

"Very funny Scotty; now beam down our clothes."

VEGETARIAN: Ancient Hindu word for "lousy hunter"

If man was formed from dirt, why is there still dirt?


Jeffrick
High Level DonorRational VIP!SuperfanGold Member
Jeffrick's picture
Posts: 2388
Joined: 2008-03-25
User is offlineOffline
Athiestcanuck

The previous two posts make no sense to me but I am responsible somehow. I was just trying to add the caveat "speaking to God is called prayer, when god speaks back it is called schizphrenia."

"Very funny Scotty; now beam down our clothes."

VEGETARIAN: Ancient Hindu word for "lousy hunter"

If man was formed from dirt, why is there still dirt?


Basileo
Posts: 16
Joined: 2008-03-26
User is offlineOffline
In the early 2000's after a

In the early 2000's after a car accident, a Roman girl necessitated an immediate blood tranfusion.. her parents, jehovah's witnesses, said: no, this is against our rules and we will not give our blood. The doctors ignored and saved the girl by using (probably) someone else blood. The Roman prosecutors accused and (after the trial) convicted both mother and father for attempted murder.


albedo_00
albedo_00's picture
Posts: 153
Joined: 2008-01-19
User is offlineOffline
Yet another story of

Yet another story of gruesome "faith parenting". Sadly, it is not the only one of it's kind, I actually witnessed one first hand:

A cousin of a good friend of mine, let's call her Laura, was diagnosed with anorexia at the tender age of 12.

My friend had a really close relationship with Laura since she was 4 years old, so much so that people outside their family often mistook them as being brother and sister. I should know, seeing how they spent so much time together and how much they loved each other, I made that very same assumption. Cliché as it may sound, you truly couldn't find two more loving cousins.

I started to notice something was wrong when my friend started to act strangely, always worried and distracted, unable to concentrate even on his school duties. He wouldn't tell me anything regardless of how many times I insisted. Days latter, I mentioned I haven't seen Laura around, and it was only then that, after braking down in tears, he told me about the diagnosis and her aunt's "solution" to the problem.

Being as she was an extremely devote catholic, she and her equally devote husband took the advice of a family friend to put their faith, along with the care of their child, in the hands of some prayer healing center outstate. They had been there for almost three weeks when my friend told me about this. He also told me neither he nor anyone else outside the center was allowed to see her or contact her in any way. The explanation for this, of course, was to minimize "sinful influences" from the outside world. I tried to find out if they at least had any psychological staff or medical facilities in said center to no avail, I couldn't even get the name of the place. No one knew about this "center" except Laura's family friend, the one who recommended it, and she wasn't speaking to me or to my friend (even if she knew him to be a fellow catholic, since they assisted to the same church). Her reason being the very same mentioned before, we posed too much of a risk as outsiders. The only solace she could offer was her encouragement for us to send our prayers to Laura. Indeed, most of Laura's family was encouraged by Laura's parents before their departure to the center to send their prayers and their love to her, so that she would recover.

 

All the prayers in the world couldn't save her. She died at the age of 12. And all the prayers in the world wouldn't prevented what was to follow next. Almost two months after Laura's burial my friend was diagnosed with depression. He went under psychotherapy coupled with psychofarmachologic treatment for the following two years.

A little note to end this story: Laura's parents tried to convince my friend's mother to take him to the prayer healing center, the same where their daughter died.

Lenore, The Cute Little Dead Girl. Twice as good as Jesus.


Kevin R Brown
Superfan
Kevin R Brown's picture
Posts: 3142
Joined: 2007-06-24
User is offlineOffline
Quote:Yet another story of

Quote:
Yet another story of gruesome "faith parenting". Sadly, it is not the only one of it's kind, I actually witnessed one first hand:

A cousin of a good friend of mine, let's call her Laura, was diagnosed with anorexia at the tender age of 12.

My friend had a really close relationship with Laura since she was 4 years old, so much so that people outside their family often mistook them as being brother and sister. I should know, seeing how they spent so much time together and how much they loved each other, I made that very same assumption. Cliché as it may sound, you truly couldn't find two more loving cousins.

I started to notice something was wrong when my friend started to act strangely, always worried and distracted, unable to concentrate even on his school duties. He wouldn't tell me anything regardless of how many times I insisted. Days latter, I mentioned I haven't seen Laura around, and it was only then that, after braking down in tears, he told me about the diagnosis and her aunt's "solution" to the problem.

Being as she was an extremely devote catholic, she and her equally devote husband took the advice of a family friend to put their faith, along with the care of their child, in the hands of some prayer healing center outstate. They had been there for almost three weeks when my friend told me about this. He also told me neither he nor anyone else outside the center was allowed to see her or contact her in any way. The explanation for this, of course, was to minimize "sinful influences" from the outside world. I tried to find out if they at least had any psychological staff or medical facilities in said center to no avail, I couldn't even get the name of the place. No one knew about this "center" except Laura's family friend, the one who recommended it, and she wasn't speaking to me or to my friend (even if she knew him to be a fellow catholic, since they assisted to the same church). Her reason being the very same mentioned before, we posed too much of a risk as outsiders. The only solace she could offer was her encouragement for us to send our prayers to Laura. Indeed, most of Laura's family was encouraged by Laura's parents before their departure to the center to send their prayers and their love to her, so that she would recover.

 

All the prayers in the world couldn't save her. She died at the age of 12. And all the prayers in the world wouldn't prevented what was to follow next. Almost two months after Laura's burial my friend was diagnosed with depression. He went under psychotherapy coupled with psychofarmachologic treatment for the following two years.

A little note to end this story: Laura's parents tried to convince my friend's mother to take him to the prayer healing center, the same where their daughter died.

These things are probably way too common. Curious that prayer has all of this awesome alleged power, yet could not apparently cure two extremely common and easily defeatable conditions? Maybe they were just 'doing it wrong'?

That Laura died of anorexia while in the 'care' of such a center is vexxing to me. Nobody apparenty chose to realize at any point that her BMI was not being restored despite the 'treatment'?

Fuck.

Well, just o be equal opportunity, here's some Scientology related cases in a similar vein:

http://www.whyaretheydead.net/

Go forth, and scream in frustration.

Quote:
"Natasha has just come up to the window from the courtyard and opened it wider so that the air may enter more freely into my room. I can see the bright green strip of grass beneath the wall, and the clear blue sky above the wall, and sunlight everywhere. Life is beautiful. Let the future generations cleanse it of all evil, oppression and violence, and enjoy it to the full."

- Leon Trotsky, Last Will & Testament
February 27, 1940


latincanuck
atheist
latincanuck's picture
Posts: 2036
Joined: 2007-06-01
User is offlineOffline
yet people ask why?

Why are people against religion, why are atheists (not all of us I know) want to end religions hold on people, because of cases like this, when the religious brainwashing over comes common sense, how often do atheists NOT take their sick kids to the doctor or hospital because, evolution will heal them, or because our prayers to Darwin will be answered? I mean serious, if those of the religious persuasion cannot understand why many fight against religion, here, these types of religious abuse is the reason, a belief, that suspends all common sense, logic and reason, for supernatural bullshit.


fs3d-pete
Posts: 12
Joined: 2008-02-09
User is offlineOffline
Both of these stories sicken

Both of these stories sicken me for what they represent:  Fundamentalists who think they're better and smarter than the real professionals who might have saved the lives of these two innocents.  That they even cut off contact with "outside sinful influences" makes their crime far more heinous and them much more culpable.  These people should be tried for murder, or at the very least, death by negligence, for what they did, when proper medical care would most likely have saved their lives.

 

And people wonder why I feel so strongly about my Atheism and their religion?

Atheist, Logically-minded, Curious about the world around me.


ryandinan
Posts: 59
Joined: 2008-03-26
User is offlineOffline
From the article:Quote:The

From the article:

Quote:

The girl has three siblings, ranging in age from 13 to 16, the police chief said.

"They are still in the home," he said. "There is no reason to remove them. There is no abuse or signs of abuse that we can see."

 

How about neglect?  These "parents" should not have custody of their other two children, if they show this kind of judgment.  Neglect can be just as - if not more - dangerous (obviously) as abuse.

Essentially, they killed their child due to their religious beliefs.  Religion seems to be this one magic loophole to allow people to do this type of stupid shit, and not get thrown in jail.  "OH!  That wold be religious persecution!"  I suppose "common sense" is an oxymoron.


Kevin R Brown
Superfan
Kevin R Brown's picture
Posts: 3142
Joined: 2007-06-24
User is offlineOffline
Quote:In the early 2000's

Quote:
In the early 2000's after a car accident, a Roman girl necessitated an immediate blood tranfusion.. her parents, jehovah's witnesses, said: no, this is against our rules and we will not give our blood. The doctors ignored and saved the girl by using (probably) someone else blood. The Roman prosecutors accused and (after the trial) convicted both mother and father for attempted murder.

Well, chalk one up for the good guys at least. Those guys have earned themselves some Autobot badges.

Quote:
"Natasha has just come up to the window from the courtyard and opened it wider so that the air may enter more freely into my room. I can see the bright green strip of grass beneath the wall, and the clear blue sky above the wall, and sunlight everywhere. Life is beautiful. Let the future generations cleanse it of all evil, oppression and violence, and enjoy it to the full."

- Leon Trotsky, Last Will & Testament
February 27, 1940


MattShizzle
Posts: 7966
Joined: 2006-03-31
User is offlineOffline
Now the latest the mother

Now the latest the mother believes that she's not really dead and is in a coma. Right. After being pronunced dead and given an autopsy (and possibly emalmed) she might regain consciousness. Fucktards.

Matt Shizzle has been banned from the Rational Response Squad website. This event shall provide an atmosphere more conducive to social growth. - Majority of the mod team


shasocastris
Posts: 7
Joined: 2008-02-15
User is offlineOffline
What the fuck? What kind of

What the fuck? What kind of lameass, shit faced parents are you to let your child die? "Not enough faith"?!?!?! I truly am scared for the other children in that family, because if they get sick, they are so screwed. I can't see how police can deem it not abusing when somebody lets their child die. Oh, if I only had my railgun...

Cheers!

A species cannot advance technologically past its social state, lest it destroy itself in the fires of its own creation.
-Doctrine of Sentience

Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent.
-Salvor Hardin, Foundation


latincanuck
atheist
latincanuck's picture
Posts: 2036
Joined: 2007-06-01
User is offlineOffline
now now matt

If she has enough faith, god will resurrect her daughter.....COME ON THIS IS FUCKING DELUSIONAL AT IT'S HEIGHT TAKE THOSE KIDS AWAY FROM HER BEFORE SHE KILLS ANOTHER ONE!!!! Oh sheesh, I can't stand fucking moronic people.


Fanas
Posts: 249
Joined: 2008-03-27
User is offlineOffline
I really hope stupidity is

I really hope stupidity is not contagious, because if it is then we are all screwed Laughing out loud

And those parents should be sentenced to death. They are not only the murders but they are also bad for the gene pool.


thingy
SuperfanGold Member
thingy's picture
Posts: 1022
Joined: 2007-02-07
User is offlineOffline
MattShizzle wrote:Now the

MattShizzle wrote:

Now the latest the mother believes that she's not really dead and is in a coma. Right. After being pronunced dead and given an autopsy (and possibly emalmed) she might regain consciousness. Fucktards.

The more concerning question is, does she still have custody of the other two kids?

Organised religion is the ultimate form of blasphemy.
Censored and blacked out for internet access in ANZ!
AU: http://nocleanfeed.com/ | NZ: http://nzblackout.org/


albedo_00
albedo_00's picture
Posts: 153
Joined: 2008-01-19
User is offlineOffline
Kevin R Brown wrote:That

Kevin R Brown wrote:

That Laura died of anorexia while in the 'care' of such a center is vexxing to me. Nobody apparenty chose to realize at any point that her BMI was not being restored despite the 'treatment'?

Fuck.

Vexing indeed. I tried to get some answers from Laura's parents but they wouldn't let their daughter's memory to be tarnished by letting an atheist talk to them about her (they actually said this to me).

I'm just glad they don't have anymore children. And yet, both inside and outside their own catholic circle, they are regarded as upstanding members of the community, due to their monthly donations to their church. The comedy, however, had yet one more act to be played. Laura's story was used to make a somewhat big service in their church, and every year, to commemorate Laura's departure to into geezus arms, they celebrate a mass in which, from time to time, her tale is told by her parents, who claim to this day that the failure of her treatment was due to a modern lack of faith and prayer. They urge for the formation of more prayer circles, so no more children have to die prematurely.

You have no idea how many times I have fantasized with putting a bomb in the accursed pulpit as they go there and encourage more faith-endorsed infanticide.

Lenore, The Cute Little Dead Girl. Twice as good as Jesus.


Badbark
Posts: 94
Joined: 2008-01-14
User is offlineOffline
A Christian response

I mentioned this on a channel in YouTube and got this personal message sent to me –

“How you know she died? she simply went to sleep in her earthly body, and Jesus decided to open the gates of heaven for this girl. Nothing wrong atall, Praise THE LIVING LORD, the time is come for us now to either turn from our wicked ways onto the Lord or ignore the message and serve satan and die in our sin and pay for it in the lake of fire as many many do

WAKE UP, TIME IS SHORT NOW, JESUS CHRIST IS THE ONLY NAME THAT CAN SAVE AND THE DEVIL SIMPLY HATES THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST AMEN”

 

Pretty damn sick. This was my reply –

 

“How you know she died?"

The activity in her brained ceased therefore everything she was, is now gone. Do you have any empirical evidence to suggest otherwise?

"she simply went to sleep in her earthly body, and Jesus decided to open the gates of heaven for this girl. Nothing wrong atall,"

Evidence please? How can any decent human being not see the wrong in this? That girl deserved a life that her parents have taken from her. Do you believe that we should forgo medical treatment completely in favour of pray? If you or a family member needed medical treatment or face death, would you refuse and pray instead? Have you ever gone to a Doctors or Dentist - why not pray instead? My guess is you're a pathetic hypocrite.

 

 


Fanas
Posts: 249
Joined: 2008-03-27
User is offlineOffline
Anyone living somewhere near

Anyone living somewhere near the Weston. Atheists should:

1. Pay respect for a girl who died out of parents stupidness and religious beliefs.

2. Should blame the parents and religion for this murder.


MattShizzle
Posts: 7966
Joined: 2006-03-31
User is offlineOffline
I just received this e mail

I just received this e mail from the Freedom From Religion Foundation:

Law Sanctifies Child Homicide in Name of Faith

Memorialize 11-Year-Old Madeline by Removing Faith Exemption

March 28, 2008

As a memorial to the painful, frightening and needless death of Madeline Kara Neumann, the Wisconsin Legislature needs to finally show some gumption, and remove from the statutes its exemption sanctifying child homicide in the name of faith.

Statement by Dan Barker and Annie Laurie Gaylor
Freedom From Religion Foundation Co-Presidents

The death of an 11-year-old child from illness is always tragic, but what puts Madeline Kara Neumann's death last Sunday in a different class is that it is unforgiveable. Madeleine's long descent into diabetic ketoacidosis was unnecessary, preventable and the result of willful negligence on the part of her bible-believing parents.

It's one thing for an adult to choose prayer over medicine. But it is sheer child sacrifice to permit parents to eschew medical diagnosis and treatment of ill offspring. Parents do not own their children, much less have the right to endanger their children's lives by callously disregarding medical needs in the name of religion.

What's even more appalling is the ambivalent reaction: "Ethicists say case unclear," reports the Wausau Daily Herald. The Herald quoted bioethicist Dr. Norman Fost of the University of Wisconsin Medical school warning that it's important not to be moralistic or pass judgment on parents who think they can heal a child through prayer: "They believe they're helping their child; they love their child, and they believe prayer has an effect."

However deluded the parents may be, the rest of us need not countenance or indulge that dangerous delusion.

Dean Zuleger, the administrator of the Village of Weston, was quoted by the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel saying, "There is a general sense of grief and sadness. Because I know the family a bit, there is a great deal of concern for their well-being." The parents' well-being?

"Death draws out difficult issues" read a headline in the Journal Sentinel. While Madeline's drawn-out death, involving nausea, vomiting, excessive thirst, weight loss and weakness, is very difficult to read about, there is nothing difficult at all about deciding where the blame lies. "The prayer of faith will heal the sick," according to James 5:15. The fault lies in society's laudatory attitude toward a "holy book" which teaches superstition and faith-healing, whose passages are latched onto by bible literalists, and whose obedience to such injunctions has been given a pass in the criminal statutes of many states.

The mother, Leilani Neumann, of Weston, Wis., publicly announced: "We need healing. We are going through the healing process." What about the healing process her daughter required? This helpless dependent of a middle-class family had last seen a doctor at the age of three, and recently had been pulled out of public schools for religious home-schooling, possibly to cover up symptoms of her illness, which, according to medical experts, would have surfaced at least six months ago.

Legally, the question will revolve over whether the family recognized the seriousness of the illness. A chronology has emerged which belies the family's claim that they did not realize how sick Madeline was, including logs of their calls around the country to relatives (who notified authorities just before her death that Madeline was seriously ill) and to David Eels, whose Unleavened Bread Ministries operates AmericasLastDays.com. Eels, of Pensacola, Fla., admitted he prayed for Madeline the day before she died, and that the family phoned him Sunday, as they followed an ambulance with their dead daughter to the hospital, asking him "if I would pray that the Lord would spare her and raise her up, which I did."

Leilani Neumann told reporters she and her husband are not worried about an investigation because "our lives are in God's hands. We know we did not do anything criminal. We know we did the best for our daughter we knew how to do."

Their "best" was not good enough. Nor is the religious exemption provided for by Wisconsin statutes, similar to what many states have adopted under pressure of the Christian Science lobby. What they don't realize is that doing nothing to help their daughter is parental negligence, which is criminal. The parents can still be charged, at least with some form of negligence or child abuse. But more action is required.

As a memorial to the painful, frightening and needless death of Madeline Kara Neumann, the Wisconsin Legislature needs to finally show some gumption, and remove from the statutes its callous exemption sanctifying child homicide in the name of faith.


 

Freedom From Religion Foundation • PO Box 750 • Madison, WI 53701 • (608) 256-8900 • e-mail us
© Freedom From Religion Foundation.

 

Matt Shizzle has been banned from the Rational Response Squad website. This event shall provide an atmosphere more conducive to social growth. - Majority of the mod team


sierra
Theist
Posts: 114
Joined: 2008-03-26
User is offlineOffline
Parents don't own their children?

"Parents do not own their children, much less have the right to endanger their children's lives by callously disregarding medical needs in the name of religion."

 

---Glad to hear you are pro-life Matt and will be opposing abortion from now on!


MattShizzle
Posts: 7966
Joined: 2006-03-31
User is offlineOffline
Woop! Woop! That's my

Woop! Woop! That's my bullshit detector going off. Fetuses aren't children.


daedalus
daedalus's picture
Posts: 260
Joined: 2007-05-22
User is offlineOffline
Interesting that the recent

Interesting that the recent theist makes no comment of the topic, but simply finds another way to insert their religious views on abortion.  The blindness is absurd.

Imagine the people who believe such things and who are not ashamed to ignore, totally, all the patient findings of thinking minds through all the centuries since the Bible was written. And it is these ignorant people, the most uneducated, the most unimaginative, the most unthinking among us, who would make themselves the guides and leaders of us all; who would force their feeble and childish beliefs on us; who would invade our schools and libraries and homes. I personally resent it bitterly.
Isaac Asimov


Cpt_pineapple
atheist
Cpt_pineapple's picture
Posts: 5486
Joined: 2007-04-12
User is offlineOffline
I think it should be treated

I think it should be treated the same way if somebody refused it based on homeopathy, or some 'quantum electro' healer.

 

It's no different.


MattShizzle
Posts: 7966
Joined: 2006-03-31
User is offlineOffline
Reading Sierra's posts is

Reading Sierra's posts is very rough on my bullshit detector. I've gone through 6 sets of batteries so far I think and almost shorted it out.

Matt Shizzle has been banned from the Rational Response Squad website. This event shall provide an atmosphere more conducive to social growth. - Majority of the mod team


Rev_Devilin
Rev_Devilin's picture
Posts: 485
Joined: 2007-05-16
User is offlineOffline
 


 


latincanuck
atheist
latincanuck's picture
Posts: 2036
Joined: 2007-06-01
User is offlineOffline
Cpt_pineapple wrote:I think

Cpt_pineapple wrote:

I think it should be treated the same way if somebody refused it based on homeopathy, or some 'quantum electro' healer.

 

It's no different.

 

I completely agree Cpt_pineapple.


JillSwift
Superfan
JillSwift's picture
Posts: 1758
Joined: 2008-01-13
User is offlineOffline
Rev_Devilin

Rev_Devilin wrote:
(video)
Amazing. I guess you can find someone to defend anything.

Strange that his primary defense was to say "we don't want to criminalize everything". What those parents did was already criminal. Their ignorance is inexcusable (and that's assuming it was ignorance) as it is up to each parent to be sufficiently educated as to provide a minimum level of care for their children. Failure to get appropriate medical care for an obviously dangerously ill child clearly fails to meet that minimum.

"Anyone can repress a woman, but you need 'dictated' scriptures to feel you're really right in repressing her. In the same way, homophobes thrive everywhere. But you must feel you've got scripture on your side to come up with the tedious 'Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve' style arguments instead of just recognising that some people are different." - Douglas Murray


MattShizzle
Posts: 7966
Joined: 2006-03-31
User is offlineOffline
The latest news is that the

The latest news is that the other children were taken away, at least for now.


Fanas
Posts: 249
Joined: 2008-03-27
User is offlineOffline
MattShizzle wrote:The latest

MattShizzle wrote:

The latest news is that the other children were taken away, at least for now.

 

Thank Darwin, any atheist family wanting to take them in Laughing out loud they need to get away from this kind of stupidity


MattShizzle
Posts: 7966
Joined: 2006-03-31
User is offlineOffline
Unfortunately they were

Unfortunately they were placed with other relatives.


BMcD
Posts: 777
Joined: 2006-12-20
User is offlineOffline
sierra wrote:"Parents do not

sierra wrote:

"Parents do not own their children, much less have the right to endanger their children's lives by callously disregarding medical needs in the name of religion."

 

---Glad to hear you are pro-life Matt and will be opposing abortion from now on!

 

Unborn fetuses are parasites tolerated for the purpose of continuance of DNA.

 

Once they're born, they're still parasites.

"You've got to remember that these are just simple farmers. These are people of the land. The common clay of the new West. You know... morons." - The Waco Kid


Kevin R Brown
Superfan
Kevin R Brown's picture
Posts: 3142
Joined: 2007-06-24
User is offlineOffline
Quote:Being as she was an

Quote:
Being as she was an extremely devote catholic, she and her equally devote husband took the advice of a family friend to put their faith, along with the care of their child, in the hands of some prayer healing center outstate. They had been there for almost three weeks when my friend told me about this. He also told me neither he nor anyone else outside the center was allowed to see her or contact her in any way. The explanation for this, of course, was to minimize "sinful influences" from the outside world. I tried to find out if they at least had any psychological staff or medical facilities in said center to no avail, I couldn't even get the name of the place. No one knew about this "center" except Laura's family friend, the one who recommended it, and she wasn't speaking to me or to my friend (even if she knew him to be a fellow catholic, since they assisted to the same church). Her reason being the very same mentioned before, we posed too much of a risk as outsiders. The only solace she could offer was her encouragement for us to send our prayers to Laura. Indeed, most of Laura's family was encouraged by Laura's parents before their departure to the center to send their prayers and their love to her, so that she would recover.

Today's baseless accusation (bred right after stepping out of the shower):

I think these 'faith healing centers' are actually 'rape centers'.

They're secretive. They're presumably secluded. They take-in ill children that are likely to succumb to an illness the minister knows can't be transmitted sexually (edit: and thus won't be able to 'tattle' on the ministry). They know that the parents aren't going to have the child autopsied or otherwise examined post-mortem, and certainly aren't going to press charges or call for an investigation when the child dies in their care.

So we have a bunch of sexually repressed men handed a vulnerable individual, who have been given a free hand and know they won't be held accountable, and certainly have control issues if they're going to such lengths to cut-off all contact between their 'patient' and the outside world.

Maybe it's a stretch to go on connecting the dots like that. But whatever - it's sure enough to warrant an investigation.

Quote:
"Natasha has just come up to the window from the courtyard and opened it wider so that the air may enter more freely into my room. I can see the bright green strip of grass beneath the wall, and the clear blue sky above the wall, and sunlight everywhere. Life is beautiful. Let the future generations cleanse it of all evil, oppression and violence, and enjoy it to the full."

- Leon Trotsky, Last Will & Testament
February 27, 1940


Fanas
Posts: 249
Joined: 2008-03-27
User is offlineOffline
Kevin R Brown

Kevin R Brown wrote:

Quote:
Being as she was an extremely devote catholic, she and her equally devote husband took the advice of a family friend to put their faith, along with the care of their child, in the hands of some prayer healing center outstate. They had been there for almost three weeks when my friend told me about this. He also told me neither he nor anyone else outside the center was allowed to see her or contact her in any way. The explanation for this, of course, was to minimize "sinful influences" from the outside world. I tried to find out if they at least had any psychological staff or medical facilities in said center to no avail, I couldn't even get the name of the place. No one knew about this "center" except Laura's family friend, the one who recommended it, and she wasn't speaking to me or to my friend (even if she knew him to be a fellow catholic, since they assisted to the same church). Her reason being the very same mentioned before, we posed too much of a risk as outsiders. The only solace she could offer was her encouragement for us to send our prayers to Laura. Indeed, most of Laura's family was encouraged by Laura's parents before their departure to the center to send their prayers and their love to her, so that she would recover.

Today's baseless accusation (bred right after stepping out of the shower):

I think these 'faith healing centers' are actually 'rape centers'.

They're secretive. They're presumably secluded. They take-in ill children that are likely to succumb to an illness the minister knows can't be transmitted sexually (edit: and thus won't be able to 'tattle' on the ministry). They know that the parents aren't going to have the child autopsied or otherwise examined post-mortem, and certainly aren't going to press charges or call for an investigation when the child dies in their care.

So we have a bunch of sexually repressed men handed a vulnerable individual, who have been given a free hand and know they won't be held accountable, and certainly have control issues if they're going to such lengths to cut-off all contact between their 'patient' and the outside world.

Maybe it's a stretch to go on connecting the dots like that. But whatever - it's sure enough to warrant an investigation.

 

Homeopathy, faith healing and all the similar should be banned. That's nothing more than a smart con.