Adam and Eve...and Lilith?

metroatheists's picture

Adam and Eve…and Lilith

A Contradiction in Terms.

Genesis 1:27- "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them." You will notice that god creates man and woman AT THE SAME TIME and this woman’s name in never mentioned.

Let us now examine and consider the second verse, which is the contradictory and yet most well known story of the creation of man and woman.

Genesis 2:21-23-“21 So the LORD God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep; and while he was sleeping, he took one of the man's ribs and closed up the place with flesh. 22 Then the LORD God made a woman from the rib he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man. 23 The man said, "This is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called ‘woman’, for she was taken out of man."

This is the story most are familiar with known as “the rib story”. This woman is then named Eve, however she is NOT the FIRST woman and not the first wife of Adam.

Midrash Explained.

To find this out the name, Jewish scholars engaged in something called Midrash. Midrash, according to the Online Encarta Dictionary/Encyclopedia, is “commentary on Hebrew Bible: a body of Rabbinic literature consisting of commentary on and clarification of biblical texts, first compiled before 500 ad”. If that is not “authoritative” enough for you, according to the Oxford English Dictionary Midrash is, “A Rabbinic homiletic commentary on a text from the Hebrew Scriptures, characterized by non-literal \nterpretation and legendary illustration.”

Why did they use Midrash?

Jewish Rabbis were not stupid. They understood that these two stories contradict each other. Since, Genesis is contained in the first five books of the bible known as “The Torah” and “The Five Books of Moses” and considered the most direct revelation from god to humans; the Rabbis decided this contradiction had an explanation that could get rid of the apparent contradiction. They did this by looking through the Bible (Old Testament) and looking for clues as to name of the first unnamed woman of creation. The reason, ironically enough, why the name of the woman is missing is because earlier Rabbis, those responsible for putting the Torah together didn’t like the story of the first woman, so they left the minimal amount of the story there, namely Gen 1:27. Why didn’t they like this first woman of creation? That will be explained later. First, let us look at what the Rabbis looked at during this Midrash.

Midrash Evidence

Isaiah 34:15 "...The night-demon Lilith, evil and rapacious, will establish permanent quarters. Scavenging carrion birds will breed and brood, infestations of ominous evil." Here is mentioned Lilith, a woman-demon. They link this name up with a woman in Jewish lore known to them at the time but coming down to us through a medieval text known as The Alphabet of Ben Sira, in full text and explained later.

Why is this important?

According to ancient Jewish lore, known from a medieval text, based on lost texts of the same stories, known as The Alphabet of Ben Sira, Lilith is the unnamed wife in Gen 1:27. The story explains why the book was left out of the Pentateuch/Torah, how and why Lilith goes away, and is supposed to explain why babies die early, why men have wet dreams and as a way to demonize women.

The Alphabet of Ben Sira

The Story of Lilith

"The angels who are in charge of medicine: Snvi, Snsvi, and Smnglof. After God created Adam, who was alone, He said, 'It is not good for man to be alone' (Gen. 2:18). He then created a woman for Adam, from the earth, as He had created Adam himself, and called her Lilith. Adam and Lilith began to fight. She said, 'I will not lie below,' and he said, 'I will not lie beneath you, but only on top. For you are fit only to be in the bottom position, while am to be in the superior one.' Lilith responded, 'We are equal to each other inasmuch as we were both created from the earth.' But they would not listen to one another. When Lilith saw this, she pronounced the Ineffable Name and flew away into the air. Adam stood in prayer before his Creator: 'Sovereign of the universe!' he said, 'the woman you gave me has run away.' At once, the Holy One, blessed be He, sent these three angels to bring her back.

"Said the Holy One to Adam, 'If she agrees to come back, fine. If not she must permit one hundred of her children to die every day.' The angels left God and pursued Lilith, whom they overtook in the midst of the sea, in the mighty waters wherein the Egyptians were destined to drown. They told her God's word, but she did not wish to return. The angels said, 'We shall drown you in the sea.'

"'Leave me!' she said. 'I was created only to cause sickness to infants. If the infant is male, I have dominion over him for eight days after his birth, and if female, for twenty days.'

"When the angels heard Lilith's words, they insisted she go back. But she swore to them by the name of the living and eternal God: 'Whenever I see you or your names or your forms in an amulet, I will have no power over that infant.' She also agreed to have one hundred of her children die every day. Accordingly, every day one hundred demons perish, and for the same reason, we write the angels' names on the amulets of young children. When Lilith sees their names, she remembers her oath, and the child recovers."

Explanation for why Lilith is left out of the Torah

Lilith wanted to be equal with Adam, and gives good reason, according to the story. Adam did not want this and would not allow it, so she left him. This is quite feministic. She says, “I will not lie below”, during sex presumably and “We are equal to each other inasmuch as we were both created from the earth.” She is actually correct, in the sense that they are equals. This is disturbing to the early Rabbis of the Judaism. In the culture of the day, men we seen as superior to women and so having this idea in the bible was unacceptable, so it was discarded. She then leaves him by uttering the name of god (in Hebrew) and then she magically flies away and never seen again. Oddly, neither god nor his angels can bring her back to Earth. She then becomes a demon of night and roams the Earth causing havoc.

The Aftermath and Conclusion

Then we have the rib story, only after Lilith leaves, and Eve is purposely made out of something less than what Adam and was done so to insure that she would be subservient to Adam, and men in general. Eve is then the second wife of Adam and Lilith the first. Lilith’s story brings up one additional problem, one that may actually be worse than having two contradictory stories of creation that is; god- the omnipotent, omnipresent, and all-perfect, creator of the universe- is NOT perfect because he made a mistake. Not only did god make a mistake, he also did not see it coming (therefore not all knowing) and could not stop Lilith or control her (therefore not all-powerful). This is what one would expect from a “quick fix” explanation of a man-made myth touted by believers as the perfect word of the creator of the universe.

By Joel

RRS @ MSCD

My views on Lillith... or her offspring

I read a few similar stories of Lillith approx 5 years ago and shared it with a friend recently. He wanted me to find some sort of documentation on it, so here I AM.

I'm 40 yrs old, happily-divorced almost 20 years now. Over all these years of raising my children, I've learned just how evil women can be and after reading numerous slightly different versions of Lillith, it almost makes sense to me now. Lillith is the reason that over HALF of the female population is currently so evil in our society. Think about it... so many women have lost their morals, family values, and can hardly be trusted in marriage. They're manipulative and evil.... ALL OFFSPRING OF LILLITH!!!

I should add... At the time that I was researching the entire Lillith-saga, I was also giving dating a try. I met 4 different women for seperate dates within a 6 week span. Turns out the first 3 were married and looking for a 'fling'. The 4th and final was different... kinda special. We were moving right along 3 weeks later when allofasudden I get a call from HER husband!

I met 4 women... all married.

Maybe it was just bad-timing. But add to this all of my on-going research of Lillith, her never-ending demon-offspring, etc... and it just...  it all JIVES NOW.

I should add that I was a lifelong athiest until approx 5 years ago too. Also, this is not to be mistaken for a woman-bashing post-oppty. If I've offended ANY females with this post, I'm sorry. It's just that everytime I see a woman acting psycho now, I immediately think of Lillith! Geeez.

 

Are you 4, or 40?  The only

Are you 4, or 40?  The only reason I can see behind that unintelligible rant regarding your poor judgement in the dating scene is you must extremely stupid, or mentally unbalanced.  Never you mind, though.  LILLITH made me say all that.

 

pauljohntheskeptic's picture

metroatheists wrote:Adam and

metroatheists wrote:

Adam and Eve…and Lilith

A Contradiction in Terms.

Genesis 1:27- "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them." You will notice that god creates man and woman AT THE SAME TIME and this woman’s name in never mentioned.

Actually, you can take this even further to indicate Adam wasn't the first man but this guy in Genesis 1:27 was when he was created with the first female which is construed to be Lilith.

As in Genesis 2:7, God makes man from the dust of the ground, and this guy is called Adam.

If Lilith is made in Genesis 1:27 not Eve, why does the guy need to be Adam?

____________________________________________________________
"I guess it's time to ask if you live under high voltage power transmission lines which have been shown to cause stimulation of the fantasy centers of the brain due to electromagnetic waves?" - Me

"God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, - it says so right here on the label. If you have a mind capable of believing all three of these divine attributes simultaneously, I have a wonderful bargain for you. No checks please. Cash and in small bills." - Robert A Heinlein.

pauljohntheskeptic's picture

forgot2wipe wrote:I should

forgot2wipe wrote:

I should add... At the time that I was researching the entire Lillith-saga, I was also giving dating a try. I met 4 different women for seperate dates within a 6 week span. Turns out the first 3 were married and looking for a 'fling'. The 4th and final was different... kinda special. We were moving right along 3 weeks later when allofasudden I get a call from HER husband!

I met 4 women... all married. 

And this is a problem why?

____________________________________________________________
"I guess it's time to ask if you live under high voltage power transmission lines which have been shown to cause stimulation of the fantasy centers of the brain due to electromagnetic waves?" - Me

"God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, - it says so right here on the label. If you have a mind capable of believing all three of these divine attributes simultaneously, I have a wonderful bargain for you. No checks please. Cash and in small bills." - Robert A Heinlein.

Lilith

forgot2wipe,

Is it possible that you have misconstrued the meaning and subverted it to mean what you want it to?  For instance are you forgetting the part that men and women were created equal and it was only when Adam refused to consider Lilith equal that she left; thus he caused the problems and not she?  It seems you are following in Adam's footsteps by blaming Lilith, thus all women, for the problems created by man, thus you. As for your dating experience, maybe you should look into the fact of why you were seeking out and drawn to married women.  Perhaps it was a reflection of your own psyche?  You were reflecting your inability to commit to a relationship which in turn manifested itself into your being attracted to married women which would ensure that you did not have to commit.  In other words, before you point to women being the "evil" of the world, look into yourself first.  It is women who, according to you, are evil, wicked, and given your definition, supposed to be subservient to man.  Thus, any rebellion, independence, or act of free thinking that a woman does will be considered evil by not only you but all other misogynistic men. 

I am sure instead of thinking like a rational being and realizing the error in your thinking, you will believe that Lilith made me say this.  Let me caution you my friend, the basis of any document is that it is all literature to be interpreted.  Given that explanation, you can bloody well assume that there is more than one interpretation of a text and not all are right and not all are wrong.  Before you insult more people with your close minded, one sided reading of any text, I suggest that you get an education and learn exactly what it is that the texts you are reading are saying instead of making the text fit what you want it to say so you can get some kind of validation for your ignorance and your part in the failed marriage and dating.  Figure out what you did wrong and quit blaming others for your mistakes.

NoMoreCrazyPeople's picture

forgot2wipe wrote:I read a

forgot2wipe wrote:

I read a few similar stories of Lillith approx 5 years ago and shared it with a friend recently. He wanted me to find some sort of documentation on it, so here I AM.

I'm 40 yrs old, happily-divorced almost 20 years now. Over all these years of raising my children, I've learned just how evil women can be and after reading numerous slightly different versions of Lillith, it almost makes sense to me now. Lillith is the reason that over HALF of the female population is currently so evil in our society. Think about it... so many women have lost their morals, family values, and can hardly be trusted in marriage. They're manipulative and evil.... ALL OFFSPRING OF LILLITH!!!

I should add... At the time that I was researching the entire Lillith-saga, I was also giving dating a try. I met 4 different women for seperate dates within a 6 week span. Turns out the first 3 were married and looking for a 'fling'. The 4th and final was different... kinda special. We were moving right along 3 weeks later when allofasudden I get a call from HER husband!

I met 4 women... all married.

Maybe it was just bad-timing. But add to this all of my on-going research of Lillith, her never-ending demon-offspring, etc... and it just...  it all JIVES NOW.

I should add that I was a lifelong athiest until approx 5 years ago too.

 

 

Your a shauvanistic moron.  Yes women can be crazy, and men can be stupid.  Men act stupid and women act crazy in -return and vice versa, we are equally emotional, its just when men get emotional they do dumb things like punch walls or people, when women  get emotional they act more crazy and irrational, both are just our way of deaing with whats going on inside based on our  hormone levels (more testosterone=more wall punchin, more estrogen=more emotional irationality.  Im sure your wife wronged you, but you are foolish to evergeneralize like  this!!!

forgot2wipe wrote:

I should add that I was a lifelong athiest until approx 5 years ago too.

Man what tragic thing happened to you, you realy are a sexist dumdum.

 

 

iwbiek's picture

who gives a flying shit

who gives a flying shit about this lilith stuff anyhow?  how the fuck is this relevant?

hell, even lilith fair sucked ass, in that patented mid-'90s corporate-sponsored "nonconformist" sort of way.  pepsi presents sarah mclachlan and all that.

"I asked my father,
I said, 'Father change my name.'
The one I'm using now it's covered up
with fear and filth and cowardice and shame."
--Leonard Cohen

Brian37's picture

Most Christians have no clue

Most Christians have no clue about the religion their religion spun off of. But regardless, whatever texts you read, either Christian or Jewish, magic doesnt exist. "Poof" man came from dirt! "Poof" a woman came from his rib.

Would anyone believe this crap if it were written in Harry Potter?

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37

Hmmm....

How can you look at the sun, the moon and the earth and say there is no God?  How can you tell 1 billion christians that God is not true?  It is because of pride, a man cannot see how small he really is and it makes him think that the earth "poofed" itself into existence, man "poofed" itself into existence.  Do you know the probability of a microbe with a certain sequence of DNA is?  And the scientist say that all realities in the universe will eventually happen, but they haven't.  Can you denounce my credibility as a man?  Can you explain why I cried for 11 minutes when Jesus entered my heart, and there is no reason to lie about that.  A chemical imbalance?  I'm crazy...are you crazy?  Can you explain why the first sentence of the bible in hebrew have 7 words  have 7 meanings and 7 contexts?  Can you explain why I hear testimonies from people like you, whom claimed they were atheist and then were converted.  Now a days its more absurd to not beleive in God, even scientist acknowledge that there could be a God whom created the universe.  Read the bible, then see if you can denounce it, but don't be ignorant and not even open it and say there is no God.  If you want to argue, then read the bible and know both sides then see if you can keep your arguement.  I'm challenging you.  I'm writing a book, but the fact that I have no money, I live in the ghetto, and I'm black is the point of marvelling.  Would you say that I'm low in intelligence?  Would you say I'm insane?  Do I sound stupid to you?  Listen to the words I speak, because if I was insane I would not know how to log on. Listen to one of my excerpts. The Holy Spirit talks through me, and listen to what I say:

"The spirit of the antichrist is the spirit of one acknowledging themselves as the human godhead, not to be confused with Jesus whom was created totally from the Holy Spirit into flesh... not the other way around like we were (christians)  We all know spirits like lust, addictions, anger are by themselves an expression of that emotion or quality like a gust of wind in a certain direction.  Now when that wind gust blows on a person its gonna blow them that way (sudden urge of emotion) So the antichrist spirit is different, it is like a spirit that moves from a center point in all directions.  Explosion.  Pride.  It is like a wind that will glorify and make "golden" the thoughts of any mind, it blows from the inside and out like helium, it enlarges your pride and you think your god, or someone important."

Now what you need to beleive is that the fact that we can love is an example of our divine connection to God.  Have you ever observed Jesus?  Do you know that God had to put His spirit into the flesh to die for our sins?  When it says dust don't you think it could have meant matter, and that our souls were intermingled with matter (dust).  Thats why you cannot see spirits because they have souls like us, but are not of the dust of the earth.  Argue with me.  Come on.

 

 

iwbiek's picture

The man without a clue

The man without a clue wrote:

Argue with me.  Come on.

some of us might, if you give any indication of sticking around to see it through to the end.  but this smacks of a drive-by poster.

"I asked my father,
I said, 'Father change my name.'
The one I'm using now it's covered up
with fear and filth and cowardice and shame."
--Leonard Cohen

Answers in Gene Simmons's picture

Dear mister Without a clue:

Dear mister Without a clue: If you are smart enough to log on, then why are you posting without logging on to our forums?

NoMoreCrazyPeople wrote:
Never ever did I say enything about free, I said "free."

=

butterbattle's picture

I would respond to your

I would respond to your post, but......you're already gone, aren't you? It seems rude to assume this, yes, but this crap happens all the time.

Make another post to prove that you haven't already run away, and we'll discuss things with you.

Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare

Atheistextremist's picture

I agree with you on one thing, anyway.

The man without a clue wrote:

When it says dust don't you think it could have meant matter, and that our souls were intermingled with matter (dust).  Thats why you cannot see spirits because they have souls like us, but are not of the dust of the earth.  Argue with me.  Come on.

 

Your brain is mingled with dust, you preposterous numbat.

How many times must we be accused of presuming to be god by people who claim to know god? Are these people stupid ?

It bloody makes me sick.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck

To: The man without a clue

You wrote: "How can you tell 1 billion christians that God is not true?"

 

I am curious: the only way that the Christian population can be counted at "1 billion" is to include Roman Catholics as Christians.  Are you affirming that Catholics are Christians?  I just want to know.

 

Conor

christian

i know pronunce you a christian because you must blame that chinese person somebody

god

who sked him to give his son  their many people who died worse than he did and for better reasons protecting friends famikly god or beliefs

Whom or who? Yes, you sound ignorant.

Quote:
Would you say that I'm low in intelligence?  Would you say I'm insane?  Do I sound stupid to you?  Listen to the words I speak, because if I was insane I would not know how to log on. Listen to one of my excerpts.

 

Can you explain why I hear testimonies from people like you, whom claimed they were atheist and then were converted.  Now a days its more absurd to not beleive in God, even scientist acknowledge that there could be a God whom created the universe. 

 

"The spirit of the antichrist is the spirit of one acknowledging themselves as the human godhead, not to be confused with Jesus whom was created totally from the Holy Spirit into flesh...


 

Actually, you do sound rather ignorant. The way you are throwing around the word "whom" as though you're writing the Bible, except that you're using the word improperly, makes you sound like someone of low intelligence. You'll sound smarter if you don't try to impress people by using big words that you don't really know how to use. (Not that "whom" is a "big word" obviously, but it can be hard for most people to know when to use it.)

 

The rest of what you said sounded like the ramblings of an insane person. Just because you can log on to a computer, forum, blog, or anything else doesn't mean that you're not insane. I'm insane and I own an entire 3000 page website that finanically supports me. So insanity has nothing to do with your ability to "log on." 

 

so you're a woman-hater now?

ugh. i can't believe that people like you really do exist. how naive and simple-minded you are. i am a feminist and by that i do not mean that i hate men. I am a feminist because i do believe that all people in these world regardless of race/ethnicity and age is equal. no American, European or those of other Caucasian races are superior of Asians or Africans. and no men is superior of women. in a fast- changing world, instead of throwing gender insensitive comments, why don't we all just work together to create a world that is more conducive to everyone. help people, do not bring them down.

back at you

I started to read about Lilith(and my name is lili bu the way)because my husband had a report due so he was going to make it on general religion but when he said in class what he was going to do on, there was  imidiate contraversy among his classmates. He decided to do it on Lilith, and thats how i learned of her(were both athies) we read alot of different versions of her. The more we read about her the more we understood on how that story could be really true and for me GOD may exsist. When i came across your blog and read how you compared wemon today to Lilith who as you may know was pre dated to the 700 B.C. i did get a little ticked of because of the things you comment about how wemon aren't so different now, and then i started to think when me and my husband were talking about. Most of wemon today do really act like Lilith in so many ways. Wemon still prostitute, wemon kill their children before the age of 9, they appear in mens wet dreams(girls have them to but not as often) and are very evil and women do have the tendency having a larger rate of being adulteres and when women dont get things their way they turn into a rage and will be mean to people. In mexican culture theres a lady monter by the name of "LA YORONA" MEANING IN INGLISH "THE WEEPING LADY" the legend calls her that because someone took her first kids away from her and killed them, and so thats why she goes at night crying and weeping for her kids, alot like Lilith dont you think. Men do not kill their own children like wemon do. I did complian to my husband for having little breast and not being able to have any children, i was so sure that i wasnt able to have any kids untill last year , i got pregnant with my first baby at the age of 25, untill we read the story of lilith, we started to compare wemon around us and i have to say thats its scarry but us wemon do inherite alot of her in different ways and some in everyway. Like me, when i dont have things going my way i do tend to get so angry that everything bothers me and curse everything in my way and if i hear my baby crying i get more irrateted. I think that thats why theres more females than males on erth because Lilith said that she will have power over boys for 8 days and girls for 20 days and for that i think thats why we have more boys. i have to go now but helping my husband doing the report opend a hole new world for both of us. Fell free to write back to me. my e-mail is lilylopez13@aol.com

 

Ignorance is not bliss.

First off, ignorance is no excuse for the ridiculous things posted and assumed concerning a contradiction in the creation stories in Genesis. If you do a little bit a research you will see they are two separate stories about the same thing. Not to be taken as happening in chronological order. First off these two stories do not contradict one another. Yes, Adam and Eve were created on the same day but no where does it state they were created at the exact same time.  The first story of creation deals with a general creation of the universe and earth. The second story deals with a specific area, namely the garden of Eden. The first story states God created man on the 6th day, both male and female. The second story deals with the creation of Adam on the 6th day as well as Eve shortly after. The first story of creation is very general and shows the order of creation. The second puts a microscope on Adam's creation and the specific area of where he was created, the garden of Eden. Also, there is no contradiction in the order of the creation of different life forms. In the second story, dealing with the garden, God brought the different animals to Adam to name and gave him dominion over them. Please do your homework and you will clearly see that these are actually two stories written by two different authors that do not contradict on another. In conclusion, there is no evidence of a Lilith being the first wife of Adam nor any contradictions in the story of creation.

Not so logical.

There is also no real evidence of the Adam and Eve's existence either.  "Logic" dictates that if you are drawing your conclusion from the Bible, then you have to draw the same conclusion about Lilith.  The problem you are going to have is the portion that spoke of Lilith was excluded from the Bible because it did not conform to the misogynistic nature of the men that made these decisions.  Despite what clueless Christians believe (I am referring to those who believe because they were told to), this was a book written by men who later decided what to include and exclude based on their own beliefs.  It is not the actual word of some god.  Perhaps it is you who should be doing some more research.....outside the Bible.

Lillith

I think you are the one who is psycho. How niave can you be? I mean what kind of relationship did you have with these women. There must have some clue they were all married. I think men are evil....all offspring of ADAM, you remember the guy who was completely influenced,  believed EVE, and disobeyed God's command. Men are stupid, and women are just as stupid.

 Excuse me? Yes my name is

 Excuse me? Yes my name is acatually lillith. Lillith was a woman who wanted equality with Adam she seen that they were made in the same way so they should be treated as equals. God nor Adam like this and when Lillith ran away because she wasnt free to speak her mind or be an equal so god banished her to hell.

My thoughts on Lilith

I think that the Lilith'story is facinating.  She represents freedom, knowleage and empowerment. She can be seem as a representative of all mankind, willing to build her own path in the world or just a representative of women showing their superiority towards man, whom they control through sex. 

In my own experience with women i can say that  they are the most powerful beings on Earth; they are the givers of life. I belive in the sacred femenine in oposition to the men's nature. We men are pawns and they are the chess players, they pick the piece and move it at will. No man can refuse this when he faces the power of the women... the power of lust. But such power make them dangerous and unpredictable.

I would say that Lilith shows the power of the women and invites men to be humble before them, thankful for the pleasures they provide but always alert to their mood changes, just like the sea when the storm breaks.

 

 

 

 

 

Lilith and Adam

I only recently encountered the tale of Lilith, and I haven't been able to stop reading about her (at the detriment of an essay, alas!). To be honest, my reasons are a little narcissistic; my name is Lily and my partner's name is Adam. As someone raised in a family bereft of religion (bereft in the BEST possible way!), I hadn't read too much about the bigwigs of the bible and the torah etc. It was only when my partner, who was raised Jewish, casually mentioned Lilith that it caught my attention - I thought it a nice coincidence that we each (sort of) possessed the respective name of two such egalitarian humans, created from the same substance. I mean, I don't subscribe to any religion (although I think there are nice ideas relating to humanity within every religion), but I was really struck by the symbol of these twin-like humans, male and female, being created as equals. Pretty advanced stuff considering that misogynist values were standard in those days, and women were unquestionably perceived as lesser beings.

Anyway, all I really wanted to express was that if the new and old testaments were in fact the embellished observations of actual historical events, which is as far as I'm willing to stretch my imagination with respect to Gods and divinity, who was this incredible woman at the centre of such a powerful figure? I mean, the demons, and the baby killing and all that stuff - typical superstitions surroundeding atypical women that can be heard echoing throughout all of human history - but the refusal of the missionary position? Denying him ownership of her? Surely these ideas stem from some real event, a real woman or real women? That's what I find most fascinating (and utterly thrilling!) about Lilith.

The guy HAD to be Adam to

The guy HAD to be Adam to corroberate the "rib" story.

What?

When I read your post all I could think is if you had been born a few hundred years ago, You would've been one of those non-progressive men who constantly put women down and called yourself and every other man the Kings of this world.

I go to a catholic school where we actually study these things and discuss them, I then did my own research to uncover everything I could about this story. I don't believe that everything in this story is true because (even my teachers and priest agree) this story is just that, a story.

Lillith did nothing wrong. She wanted to be equal to man, to have just as much right to do things as man. She was the original feminist, she only wanted to be seen as a human being, not by the gender in which God put her. Also remember that men wrote the Bible, God inspired the writings but men put them on paper. Just as said in this article the writers left things out because it didn't agree with their image of reality, back then women were like servants they could have sex with. Lillith may not have been a crazy witch who killed children and had sex with angels. She may have been a woman who stood up for herself and tried to change the view of Adam. Take everything you read like this in the Bible with a spoonful of vinegar. 

Also her children were demons, not human beings so therefore "women have lost their morals, family values and cannot be trusted in marriage. they are manipulative and evil...ALL OFFSPRING OF LILLITH!!!" makes no sense. 

I understand that the women you may have been with may have caused you to lose hope in females but as a whole, not all women are Crazy idiotic creatures who think of nothing but themselves.

As a Young Woman I have so much that women for years have always wished for and still wish for all over the world. I am an equal to man, I do not have to do what anyone tells me. I can have an opinion without being bashed or killed. I can choose what I want to do with my life and no one can tell me otherwise.

I honestly hope you can overcome your hatred for women, though many have evolved into self-absorbed crazies according to you, there are so many out there who aren't going to hurt you.

I have the greatest respect for all religions, beliefs, opinions and attitudes. I'm not trying to put down your own view, just giving you an alternitive perspective. I'm still young and I have a lot to learn in this world, I'm just offering my opinion and knowledge as well as my insight into this topic.

 

 

women descendants of Lilith?

 First I would like to express my disappointment that there is so much hatred coming through in these discussions. It would be wonderful if there could be just loving conversation and intellectual exchange of information. That is the Christian way after all...

 

After reading the article, and most of the posts here, as well as my bible, I am not convinced that Adam and Eve are the same as the first humans mentioned in Genesis 1:26.

"Then God said, 'Let us make human beings in our image, to be like us. They will reign over the fish in the sea, the birds in the sky, the livestock, all the wild animals on the earth, and the small animals that scurry along the ground.'

"Then God created human beings in his own image. In the image of God he created them; male and female he created them."

 

Then in Genesis 2:4b-7

"When the Lord God made the earth and the heavens, neither wild plants nor grains were growing on the earth. For the Lord God had not yet sent rain to water the earth, and there were no people to cultivate the soil. Instead, springs came up from the ground and watered all the land. Then the Lord God formed the man from the dust of the ground. He breathed the breath of life into the man's nostils, and the man became a living person."

 

I don't believe that we were meant to understand all that is written in the bible, nor the secrets that God has not reveled, but maybe we have been misunderstanding this scripture. What if God created a man and a woman before Adam and Eve to fill a different purpose?  What if God did not intend for us to have dominion over all creatures, but had that in mind for the first He created? What if we, in our arrogance, are taking on responsibilities and liberties that God never intended for us?

What if we are not descendants of Lilith, and our "craziness" as women is simply the way that women express psychological distress? We cannot all be crazy after all. Look at medicine 50 years ago. Women were thought to be crazy because they complained of intense pain once a month from their menstrual cycle. 

All I am saying is that there are a lot of unanswered questions. I would love to find some more insight, without accusatory comments.

Interpretation

 I will admit that I have not read all of the comments, so somebody may already have pointed this out: There is no contradiction between the two accounts in Genesis!

Take this statement: "I built two automobiles.  They had the same image.  They were both hatchbacks."  Yes, this implies that I built them both at the same time, but does it specifically say that?  NO!  I could have built them a year apart.  I can then state further: "I built the first one in 2010.  I was pleased.  I then built another one in 2011."  As you can see, the second statement is simply giving more details about the first statement.  There is NO contradiction.

As a side note, I am NOT a religious person, but I do know how to apply logic to any situation.