Adam and Eve...and Lilith?
Adam and Eve…and Lilith
A Contradiction in Terms.
Genesis 1:27- "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them." You will notice that god creates man and woman AT THE SAME TIME and this woman’s name in never mentioned.
Let us now examine and consider the second verse, which is the contradictory and yet most well known story of the creation of man and woman.
Genesis 2:21-23-“21 So the LORD God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep; and while he was sleeping, he took one of the man's ribs and closed up the place with flesh. 22 Then the LORD God made a woman from the rib he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man. 23 The man said, "This is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called ‘woman’, for she was taken out of man."
This is the story most are familiar with known as “the rib story”. This woman is then named Eve, however she is NOT the FIRST woman and not the first wife of Adam.
Midrash Explained.
To find this out the name, Jewish scholars engaged in something called Midrash. Midrash, according to the Online Encarta Dictionary/Encyclopedia, is “commentary on Hebrew Bible: a body of Rabbinic literature consisting of commentary on and clarification of biblical texts, first compiled before 500 ad”. If that is not “authoritative” enough for you, according to the Oxford English Dictionary Midrash is, “A Rabbinic homiletic commentary on a text from the Hebrew Scriptures, characterized by non-literal \nterpretation and legendary illustration.”
Why did they use Midrash?
Jewish Rabbis were not stupid. They understood that these two stories contradict each other. Since, Genesis is contained in the first five books of the bible known as “The Torah” and “The Five Books of Moses” and considered the most direct revelation from god to humans; the Rabbis decided this contradiction had an explanation that could get rid of the apparent contradiction. They did this by looking through the Bible (Old Testament) and looking for clues as to name of the first unnamed woman of creation. The reason, ironically enough, why the name of the woman is missing is because earlier Rabbis, those responsible for putting the Torah together didn’t like the story of the first woman, so they left the minimal amount of the story there, namely Gen 1:27. Why didn’t they like this first woman of creation? That will be explained later. First, let us look at what the Rabbis looked at during this Midrash.
Midrash Evidence
Isaiah 34:15 "...The night-demon Lilith, evil and rapacious, will establish permanent quarters. Scavenging carrion birds will breed and brood, infestations of ominous evil." Here is mentioned Lilith, a woman-demon. They link this name up with a woman in Jewish lore known to them at the time but coming down to us through a medieval text known as The Alphabet of Ben Sira, in full text and explained later.
Why is this important?
According to ancient Jewish lore, known from a medieval text, based on lost texts of the same stories, known as The Alphabet of Ben Sira, Lilith is the unnamed wife in Gen 1:27. The story explains why the book was left out of the Pentateuch/Torah, how and why Lilith goes away, and is supposed to explain why babies die early, why men have wet dreams and as a way to demonize women.
The Alphabet of Ben Sira
The Story of Lilith
"The angels who are in charge of medicine: Snvi, Snsvi, and Smnglof. After God created Adam, who was alone, He said, 'It is not good for man to be alone' (Gen. 2:18). He then created a woman for Adam, from the earth, as He had created Adam himself, and called her Lilith. Adam and Lilith began to fight. She said, 'I will not lie below,' and he said, 'I will not lie beneath you, but only on top. For you are fit only to be in the bottom position, while am to be in the superior one.' Lilith responded, 'We are equal to each other inasmuch as we were both created from the earth.' But they would not listen to one another. When Lilith saw this, she pronounced the Ineffable Name and flew away into the air. Adam stood in prayer before his Creator: 'Sovereign of the universe!' he said, 'the woman you gave me has run away.' At once, the Holy One, blessed be He, sent these three angels to bring her back.
"Said the Holy One to Adam, 'If she agrees to come back, fine. If not she must permit one hundred of her children to die every day.' The angels left God and pursued Lilith, whom they overtook in the midst of the sea, in the mighty waters wherein the Egyptians were destined to drown. They told her God's word, but she did not wish to return. The angels said, 'We shall drown you in the sea.'
"'Leave me!' she said. 'I was created only to cause sickness to infants. If the infant is male, I have dominion over him for eight days after his birth, and if female, for twenty days.'
"When the angels heard Lilith's words, they insisted she go back. But she swore to them by the name of the living and eternal God: 'Whenever I see you or your names or your forms in an amulet, I will have no power over that infant.' She also agreed to have one hundred of her children die every day. Accordingly, every day one hundred demons perish, and for the same reason, we write the angels' names on the amulets of young children. When Lilith sees their names, she remembers her oath, and the child recovers."
Explanation for why Lilith is left out of the Torah
Lilith wanted to be equal with Adam, and gives good reason, according to the story. Adam did not want this and would not allow it, so she left him. This is quite feministic. She says, “I will not lie below”, during sex presumably and “We are equal to each other inasmuch as we were both created from the earth.” She is actually correct, in the sense that they are equals. This is disturbing to the early Rabbis of the Judaism. In the culture of the day, men we seen as superior to women and so having this idea in the bible was unacceptable, so it was discarded. She then leaves him by uttering the name of god (in Hebrew) and then she magically flies away and never seen again. Oddly, neither god nor his angels can bring her back to Earth. She then becomes a demon of night and roams the Earth causing havoc.
The Aftermath and Conclusion
Then we have the rib story, only after Lilith leaves, and Eve is purposely made out of something less than what Adam and was done so to insure that she would be subservient to Adam, and men in general. Eve is then the second wife of Adam and Lilith the first. Lilith’s story brings up one additional problem, one that may actually be worse than having two contradictory stories of creation that is; god- the omnipotent, omnipresent, and all-perfect, creator of the universe- is NOT perfect because he made a mistake. Not only did god make a mistake, he also did not see it coming (therefore not all knowing) and could not stop Lilith or control her (therefore not all-powerful). This is what one would expect from a “quick fix” explanation of a man-made myth touted by believers as the perfect word of the creator of the universe.
By Joel
RRS @ MSCD
My views on Lillith... or her offspring
I read a few similar stories of Lillith approx 5 years ago and shared it with a friend recently. He wanted me to find some sort of documentation on it, so here I AM.
I'm 40 yrs old, happily-divorced almost 20 years now. Over all these years of raising my children, I've learned just how evil women can be and after reading numerous slightly different versions of Lillith, it almost makes sense to me now. Lillith is the reason that over HALF of the female population is currently so evil in our society. Think about it... so many women have lost their morals, family values, and can hardly be trusted in marriage. They're manipulative and evil.... ALL OFFSPRING OF LILLITH!!!
I should add... At the time that I was researching the entire Lillith-saga, I was also giving dating a try. I met 4 different women for seperate dates within a 6 week span. Turns out the first 3 were married and looking for a 'fling'. The 4th and final was different... kinda special. We were moving right along 3 weeks later when allofasudden I get a call from HER husband!
I met 4 women... all married.
Maybe it was just bad-timing. But add to this all of my on-going research of Lillith, her never-ending demon-offspring, etc... and it just... it all JIVES NOW.
I should add that I was a lifelong athiest until approx 5 years ago too. Also, this is not to be mistaken for a woman-bashing post-oppty. If I've offended ANY females with this post, I'm sorry. It's just that everytime I see a woman acting psycho now, I immediately think of Lillith! Geeez.
Are you 4, or 40? The only
Are you 4, or 40? The only reason I can see behind that unintelligible rant regarding your poor judgement in the dating scene is you must extremely stupid, or mentally unbalanced. Never you mind, though. LILLITH made me say all that.
metroatheists wrote:Adam and
Actually, you can take this even further to indicate Adam wasn't the first man but this guy in Genesis 1:27 was when he was created with the first female which is construed to be Lilith.
As in Genesis 2:7, God makes man from the dust of the ground, and this guy is called Adam.
If Lilith is made in Genesis 1:27 not Eve, why does the guy need to be Adam?
"God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, - it says so right here on the label. If you have a mind capable of believing all three of these divine attributes simultaneously, I have a wonderful bargain for you. No checks please. Cash and in small bills." - Robert A Heinlein.
forgot2wipe wrote:I should
And this is a problem why?
"God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, - it says so right here on the label. If you have a mind capable of believing all three of these divine attributes simultaneously, I have a wonderful bargain for you. No checks please. Cash and in small bills." - Robert A Heinlein.
Lilith
forgot2wipe,
Is it possible that you have misconstrued the meaning and subverted it to mean what you want it to? For instance are you forgetting the part that men and women were created equal and it was only when Adam refused to consider Lilith equal that she left; thus he caused the problems and not she? It seems you are following in Adam's footsteps by blaming Lilith, thus all women, for the problems created by man, thus you. As for your dating experience, maybe you should look into the fact of why you were seeking out and drawn to married women. Perhaps it was a reflection of your own psyche? You were reflecting your inability to commit to a relationship which in turn manifested itself into your being attracted to married women which would ensure that you did not have to commit. In other words, before you point to women being the "evil" of the world, look into yourself first. It is women who, according to you, are evil, wicked, and given your definition, supposed to be subservient to man. Thus, any rebellion, independence, or act of free thinking that a woman does will be considered evil by not only you but all other misogynistic men.
I am sure instead of thinking like a rational being and realizing the error in your thinking, you will believe that Lilith made me say this. Let me caution you my friend, the basis of any document is that it is all literature to be interpreted. Given that explanation, you can bloody well assume that there is more than one interpretation of a text and not all are right and not all are wrong. Before you insult more people with your close minded, one sided reading of any text, I suggest that you get an education and learn exactly what it is that the texts you are reading are saying instead of making the text fit what you want it to say so you can get some kind of validation for your ignorance and your part in the failed marriage and dating. Figure out what you did wrong and quit blaming others for your mistakes.
forgot2wipe wrote:I read a
Your a shauvanistic moron. Yes women can be crazy, and men can be stupid. Men act stupid and women act crazy in -return and vice versa, we are equally emotional, its just when men get emotional they do dumb things like punch walls or people, when women get emotional they act more crazy and irrational, both are just our way of deaing with whats going on inside based on our hormone levels (more testosterone=more wall punchin, more estrogen=more emotional irationality. Im sure your wife wronged you, but you are foolish to evergeneralize like this!!!
Man what tragic thing happened to you, you realy are a sexist dumdum.
who gives a flying shit
who gives a flying shit about this lilith stuff anyhow? how the fuck is this relevant?
hell, even lilith fair sucked ass, in that patented mid-'90s corporate-sponsored "nonconformist" sort of way. pepsi presents sarah mclachlan and all that.
You know, love is a happy time all throughout the universe. It's when the male part of the species goes to the female part of the species and says, "Hey, you want to go on a date?" And then she would say "Why, yes, I'd like to go on a date" if you're lucky. And then you go to a restaurant, and she gets something called a salad, and then he gets a big piece of beef, that he eats. And that to me, ladies and gentlemen, is love. Kinda makes you cry, doesn't it?
--Brak
Most Christians have no clue
Most Christians have no clue about the religion their religion spun off of. But regardless, whatever texts you read, either Christian or Jewish, magic doesnt exist. "Poof" man came from dirt! "Poof" a woman came from his rib.
Would anyone believe this crap if it were written in Harry Potter?
"For we know that our patchwork heritage is a strength, not a weakness. We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers." President Barack Obama
Please also considering donating to Low Country Lab Rescue (dog rescue) at this link http://www.lowcountrylabrescue.org/
Hmmm....
How can you look at the sun, the moon and the earth and say there is no God? How can you tell 1 billion christians that God is not true? It is because of pride, a man cannot see how small he really is and it makes him think that the earth "poofed" itself into existence, man "poofed" itself into existence. Do you know the probability of a microbe with a certain sequence of DNA is? And the scientist say that all realities in the universe will eventually happen, but they haven't. Can you denounce my credibility as a man? Can you explain why I cried for 11 minutes when Jesus entered my heart, and there is no reason to lie about that. A chemical imbalance? I'm crazy...are you crazy? Can you explain why the first sentence of the bible in hebrew have 7 words have 7 meanings and 7 contexts? Can you explain why I hear testimonies from people like you, whom claimed they were atheist and then were converted. Now a days its more absurd to not beleive in God, even scientist acknowledge that there could be a God whom created the universe. Read the bible, then see if you can denounce it, but don't be ignorant and not even open it and say there is no God. If you want to argue, then read the bible and know both sides then see if you can keep your arguement. I'm challenging you. I'm writing a book, but the fact that I have no money, I live in the ghetto, and I'm black is the point of marvelling. Would you say that I'm low in intelligence? Would you say I'm insane? Do I sound stupid to you? Listen to the words I speak, because if I was insane I would not know how to log on. Listen to one of my excerpts. The Holy Spirit talks through me, and listen to what I say:
"The spirit of the antichrist is the spirit of one acknowledging themselves as the human godhead, not to be confused with Jesus whom was created totally from the Holy Spirit into flesh... not the other way around like we were (christians) We all know spirits like lust, addictions, anger are by themselves an expression of that emotion or quality like a gust of wind in a certain direction. Now when that wind gust blows on a person its gonna blow them that way (sudden urge of emotion) So the antichrist spirit is different, it is like a spirit that moves from a center point in all directions. Explosion. Pride. It is like a wind that will glorify and make "golden" the thoughts of any mind, it blows from the inside and out like helium, it enlarges your pride and you think your god, or someone important."
Now what you need to beleive is that the fact that we can love is an example of our divine connection to God. Have you ever observed Jesus? Do you know that God had to put His spirit into the flesh to die for our sins? When it says dust don't you think it could have meant matter, and that our souls were intermingled with matter (dust). Thats why you cannot see spirits because they have souls like us, but are not of the dust of the earth. Argue with me. Come on.
The man without a clue
some of us might, if you give any indication of sticking around to see it through to the end. but this smacks of a drive-by poster.
You know, love is a happy time all throughout the universe. It's when the male part of the species goes to the female part of the species and says, "Hey, you want to go on a date?" And then she would say "Why, yes, I'd like to go on a date" if you're lucky. And then you go to a restaurant, and she gets something called a salad, and then he gets a big piece of beef, that he eats. And that to me, ladies and gentlemen, is love. Kinda makes you cry, doesn't it?
--Brak
Dear mister Without a clue:
Dear mister Without a clue: If you are smart enough to log on, then why are you posting without logging on to our forums?
The Athropic Principal: Shit sucks, you are not special, deal with it.
So dude, you used a computer which runs on electricity that may well have come from a nuclear reactor to send your message down wires which were put in place by the phone/cable company so that they could make millions of dollars only to use the internet to tell us that you don't believe in science?
I would respond to your
I would respond to your post, but......you're already gone, aren't you? It seems rude to assume this, yes, but this crap happens all the time.
Make another post to prove that you haven't already run away, and we'll discuss things with you.
Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones. - Marcus Aurelius
When I do good, I feel good; when I do bad, I feel bad. That's my religion. - Abraham Lincoln
I agree with you on one thing, anyway.
Your brain is mingled with dust, you preposterous numbat.
How many times must we be accused of presuming to be god by people who claim to know god? Are these people stupid ?
It bloody makes me sick.
Love is god.
To: The man without a clue
You wrote: "How can you tell 1 billion christians that God is not true?"
I am curious: the only way that the Christian population can be counted at "1 billion" is to include Roman Catholics as Christians. Are you affirming that Catholics are Christians? I just want to know.
Conor