This must be from god him/herself.. Could some nice soul please tear this argument apart. I and others would appreciate it.
Urantia Book
1928
6. MATERIALISM
Scientists have unintentionally precipitated mankind into a materialistic panic;
they have started an unthinking run on the moral bank of the ages, but this bank
of human experience has vast spiritual resources; it can stand the demands being
made upon it. Only unthinking men become panicky about the spiritual assets of
the human race. When the materialistic-secular panic is over, the religion of
Jesus will not be found bankrupt. The spiritual bank of the kingdom of heaven
will be paying out faith, hope, and moral security to all who draw upon it "in
His name."
No matter what the apparent conflict between materialism and the teachings of
Jesus may be, you can rest assured that, in the ages to come, the teachings of
the Master will fully triumph. In reality, true religion cannot become involved
in any controversy with science; it is in no way concerned with material things.
Religion is simply indifferent to, but sympathetic with, science, while it
supremely concerns itself with the scientist.
The pursuit of mere knowledge, without the attendant interpretation of wisdom
and the spiritual insight of religious experience, eventually leads to pessimism
and human despair. A little knowledge is truly disconcerting.
At the time of this writing the worst of the materialistic age is over; the day
of a better understanding is already beginning to dawn. The higher minds of the
scientific world are no longer wholly materialistic in their philosophy, but the
rank and file of the people still lean in that direction as a result of former
teachings. But this age of physical realism is only a passing episode in man's
life on earth. Modern science has left true religion--the teachings of Jesus as
translated in the lives of his believers--untouched. All science has done is to
destroy the childlike illusions of the misinterpretations of life.
Science is a quantitative experience, religion a qualitative experience, as
regards man's life on earth. Science deals with phenomena; religion, with
origins, values, and goals. To assign causes as an explanation of physical
phenomena is to confess ignorance of ultimates and in the end only leads the
scientist straight back to the first great cause--the Universal Father of
Paradise.
The violent swing from an age of miracles to an age of machines has proved
altogether upsetting to man. The cleverness and dexterity of the false
philosophies of mechanism belie their very mechanistic contentions. The
fatalistic agility of the mind of a materialist forever disproves his assertions
that the universe is a blind and purposeless energy phenomenon.
The mechanistic naturalism of some supposedly educated men and the thoughtless
secularism of the man in the street are both exclusively concerned with things;
they are barren of all real values, sanctions, and satisfactions of a spiritual
nature, as well as being devoid of faith, hope, and eternal assurances. One of
the great troubles with modern life is that man thinks he is too busy to find
time for spiritual meditation and religious devotion.
Materialism reduces man to a soulless automaton and constitutes him merely an
arithmetical symbol finding a helpless place in the mathematical formula of an
unromantic and mechanistic universe. But whence comes all this vast universe of
mathematics without a Master Mathematician? Science may expatiate on the
conservation of matter, but religion validates the conservation of men's
souls--it concerns their experience with spiritual realities and eternal values.
The materialistic sociologist of today surveys a community, makes a report
thereon, and leaves the people as he found them. Nineteen hundred years ago,
unlearned Galileans surveyed Jesus giving his life as a spiritual contribution
to man's inner experience and then went out and turned the whole Roman Empire
upside down.
But religious leaders are making a great mistake when they try to call modern
man to spiritual battle with the trumpet blasts of the Middle Ages. Religion
must provide itself with new and up-to-date slogans. Neither democracy nor any
other political panacea will take the place of spiritual progress. False
religions may represent an evasion of reality, but Jesus in his gospel
introduced mortal man to the very entrance upon an eternal reality of spiritual
progression.
To say that mind "emerged" from matter explains nothing. If the universe were
merely a mechanism and mind were unapart from matter, we would never have two
differing interpretations of any observed phenomenon. The concepts of truth,
beauty, and goodness are not inherent in either physics or chemistry. A machine
cannot know, much less know truth, hunger for righteousness, and cherish
goodness.
Science may be physical, but the mind of the truth-discerning scientist is at
once supermaterial. Matter knows not truth, neither can it love mercy nor
delight in spiritual realities. Moral convictions based on spiritual
enlightenment and rooted in human experience are just as real and certain as
mathematical deductions based on physical observations, but on another and
higher level.
If men were only machines, they would react more or less uniformly to a material
universe. Individuality, much less personality, would be nonexistent.
The fact of the absolute mechanism of Paradise at the center of the universe of
universes, in the presence of the unqualified volition of the Second Source and
Center, makes forever certain that determiners are not the exclusive law of the
cosmos. Materialism is there, but it is not exclusive; mechanism is there, but
it is not unqualified; determinism is there, but it is not alone.
The finite universe of matter would eventually become uniform and deterministic
but for the combined presence of mind and spirit. The influence of the cosmic
mind constantly injects spontaneity into even the material worlds.
Freedom or initiative in any realm of existence is directly proportional to the
degree of spiritual influence and cosmic-mind control; that is, in human
experience, the degree of the actuality of doing "the Father's will." And so,
when you once start out to find God, that is the conclusive proof that God has
already found you.
The sincere pursuit of goodness, beauty, and truth leads to God. And every
scientific discovery demonstrates the existence of both freedom and uniformity
in the universe. The discoverer was free to make the discovery. The thing
discovered is real and apparently uniform, or else it could not have become
known as a thing.
7. THE VULNERABILITY OF MATERIALISM
How foolish it is for material-minded man to allow such vulnerable theories as
those of a mechanistic universe to deprive him of the vast spiritual resources
of the personal experience of true religion. Facts never quarrel with real
spiritual faith; theories may. Better that science should be devoted to the
destruction of superstition rather than attempting the overthrow of religious
faith--human belief in spiritual realities and divine values.
Science should do for man materially what religion does for him spiritually:
extend the horizon of life and enlarge his personality. True science can have no
lasting quarrel with true religion. The "scientific method" is merely an
intellectual yardstick wherewith to measure material adventures and physical
achievements. But being material and wholly intellectual, it is utterly useless
in the evaluation of spiritual realities and religious experiences.
The inconsistency of the modern mechanist is: If this were merely a material
universe and man only a machine, such a man would be wholly unable to recognize
himself as such a machine, and likewise would such a machine-man be wholly
unconscious of the fact of the existence of such a material universe. The
materialistic dismay and despair of a mechanistic science has failed to
recognize the fact of the spirit-indwelt mind of the scientist whose very
supermaterial insight formulates these mistaken and self-contradictory concepts
of a materialistic universe.
Paradise values of eternity and infinity, of truth, beauty, and goodness, are
concealed within the facts of the phenomena of the universes of time and space.
But it requires the eye of faith in a spirit-born mortal to detect and discern
these spiritual values.
The realities and values of spiritual progress are not a "psychologic
projection"--a mere glorified daydream of the material mind. Such things are the
spiritual forecasts of the indwelling Adjuster, the spirit of God living in the
mind of man. And let not your dabblings with the faintly glimpsed findings of
"relativity" disturb your concepts of the eternity and infinity of God. And in
all your solicitation concerning the necessity for self-expression do not make
the mistake of failing to provide for Adjuster-expression, the manifestation of
your real and better self.
If this were only a material universe, material man would never be able to
arrive at the concept of the mechanistic character of such an exclusively
material existence. This very mechanistic concept of the universe is in itself a
nonmaterial phenomenon of mind, and all mind is of nonmaterial origin, no matter
how thoroughly it may appear to be materially conditioned and mechanistically
controlled.
The partially evolved mental mechanism of mortal man is not overendowed with
consistency and wisdom. Man's conceit often outruns his reason and eludes his
logic.
The very pessimism of the most pessimistic materialist is, in and of itself,
sufficient proof that the universe of the pessimist is not wholly material. Both
optimism and pessimism are concept reactions in a mind conscious of values as
well as of facts. If the universe were truly what the materialist regards it to
be, man as a human machine would then be devoid of all conscious recognition of
that very fact. Without the consciousness of the concept of values within the
spirit-born mind, the fact of universe materialism and the mechanistic phenomena
of universe operation would be wholly unrecognized by man. One machine cannot be
conscious of the nature or value of another machine.
A mechanistic philosophy of life and the universe cannot be scientific because
science recognizes and deals only with materials and facts. Philosophy is
inevitably superscientific. Man is a material fact of nature, but his life is a
phenomenon which transcends the material levels of nature in that it exhibits
the control attributes of mind and the creative qualities of spirit.
The sincere effort of man to become a mechanist represents the tragic phenomenon
of that man's futile effort to commit intellectual and moral suicide. But he
cannot do it.
If the universe were only material and man only a machine, there would be no
science to embolden the scientist to postulate this mechanization of the
universe. Machines cannot measure, classify, nor evaluate themselves. Such a
scientific piece of work could be executed only by some entity of supermachine
status.
If universe reality is only one vast machine, then man must be outside of the
universe and apart from it in order to recognize such a fact and become
conscious of the insight of such an evaluation.
If man is only a machine, by what technique does this man come to believe or
claim to know that he is only a machine? The experience of self-conscious
evaluation of one's self is never an attribute of a mere machine. A
self-conscious and avowed mechanist is the best possible answer to mechanism. If
materialism were a fact, there could be no self-conscious mechanist. It is also
true that one must first be a moral person before one can perform immoral acts.
The very claim of materialism implies a supermaterial consciousness of the mind
which presumes to assert such dogmas. A mechanism might deteriorate, but it
could never progress. Machines do not think, create, dream, aspire, idealize,
hunger for truth, or thirst for righteousness. They do not motivate their lives
with the passion to serve other machines and to choose as their goal of eternal
progression the sublime task of finding God and striving to be like him.
Machines are never intellectual, emotional, aesthetic, ethical, moral, or
spiritual.
Art proves that man is not mechanistic, but it does not prove that he is
spiritually immortal. Art is mortal morontia, the intervening field between man,
the material, and man, the spiritual. Poetry is an effort to escape from
material realities to spiritual values.
In a high civilization, art humanizes science, while in turn it is spiritualized
by true religion--insight into spiritual and eternal values. Art represents the
human and time-space evaluation of reality. Religion is the divine embrace of
cosmic values and connotes eternal progression in spiritual ascension and
expansion. The art of time is dangerous only when it becomes blind to the spirit
standards of the divine patterns which eternity reflects as the reality shadows
of time. True art is the effective manipulation of the material things of life;
religion is the ennobling transformation of the material facts of life, and it
never ceases in its spiritual evaluation of art.
How foolish to presume that an automaton could conceive a philosophy of
automatism, and how ridiculous that it should presume to form such a concept of
other and fellow automatons!
Any scientific interpretation of the material universe is valueless unless it
provides due recognition for the scientist. No appreciation of art is genuine
unless it accords recognition to the artist. No evaluation of morals is worth
while unless it includes the moralist. No recognition of philosophy is edifying
if it ignores the philosopher, and religion cannot exist without the real
experience of the religionist who, in and through this very experience, is
seeking to find God and to know him. Likewise is the universe of universes
without significance apart from the I AM, the infinite God who made it and
unceasingly manages it.
Mechanists--humanists--tend to drift with the material currents. Idealists and
spiritists dare to use their oars with intelligence and vigor in order to modify
the apparently purely material course of the energy streams.
Science lives by the mathematics of the mind; music expresses the tempo of the
emotions. Religion is the spiritual rhythm of the soul in time-space harmony
with the higher and eternal melody measurements of Infinity. Religious
experience is something in human life which is truly supermathematical.
In language, an alphabet represents the mechanism of materialism, while the
words expressive of the meaning of a thousand thoughts, grand ideas, and noble
ideals--of love and hate, of cowardice and courage--represent the performances
of mind within the scope defined by both material and spiritual law, directed by
the assertion of the will of personality, and limited by the inherent
situational endowment.
The universe is not like the laws, mechanisms, and the uniformities which the
scientist discovers, and which he comes to regard as science, but rather like
the curious, thinking, choosing, creative, combining, and discriminating
scientist who thus observes universe phenomena and classifies the mathematical
facts inherent in the mechanistic phases of the material side of creation.
Neither is the universe like the art of the artist, but rather like the
striving, dreaming, aspiring, and advancing artist who seeks to transcend the
world of material things in an effort to achieve a spiritual goal.
The scientist, not science, perceives the reality of an evolving and advancing
universe of energy and matter. The artist, not art, demonstrates the existence
of the transient morontia world intervening between material existence and
spiritual liberty. The religionist, not religion, proves the existence of the
spirit realities and divine values which are to be encountered in the progress
of eternity.
8. SECULAR TOTALITARIANISM
But even after materialism and mechanism have been more or less vanquished, the
devastating influence of twentieth-century secularism will still blight the
spiritual experience of millions of unsuspecting souls.
Modern secularism has been fostered by two world-wide influences. The father of
secularism was the narrow-minded and godless attitude of nineteenth- and
twentieth-century so-called science--atheistic science. The mother of modern
secularism was the totalitarian medieval Christian church. Secularism had its
inception as a rising protest against the almost complete domination of Western
civilization by the institutionalized Christian church.
At the time of this revelation, the prevailing intellectual and philosophical
climate of both European and American life is decidedly secular--humanistic. For
three hundred years Western thinking has been progressively secularized.
Religion has become more and more a nominal influence, largely a ritualistic
exercise. The majority of professed Christians of Western civilization are
unwittingly actual secularists.
It required a great power, a mighty influence, to free the thinking and living
of the Western peoples from the withering grasp of a totalitarian ecclesiastical
domination. Secularism did break the bonds of church control, and now in turn it
threatens to establish a new and godless type of mastery over the hearts and
minds of modern man. The tyrannical and dictatorial political state is the
direct offspring of scientific materialism and philosophic secularism.
Secularism no sooner frees man from the domination of the institutionalized
church than it sells him into slavish bondage to the totalitarian state.
Secularism frees man from ecclesiastical slavery only to betray him into the
tyranny of political and economic slavery.
Materialism denies God, secularism simply ignores him; at least that was the
earlier attitude. More recently, secularism has assumed a more militant
attitude, assuming to take the place of the religion whose totalitarian bondage
it onetime resisted. Twentieth-century secularism tends to affirm that man does
not need God. But beware! this godless philosophy of human society will lead
only to unrest, animosity, unhappiness, war, and world-wide disaster.
Secularism can never bring peace to mankind. Nothing can take the place of God
in human society. But mark you well! do not be quick to surrender the beneficent
gains of the secular revolt from ecclesiastical totalitarianism. Western
civilization today enjoys many liberties and satisfactions as a result of the
secular revolt. The great mistake of secularism was this: In revolting against
the almost total control of life by religious authority, and after attaining the
liberation from such ecclesiastical tyranny, the secularists went on to
institute a revolt against God himself, sometimes tacitly and sometimes openly.
To the secularistic revolt you owe the amazing creativity of American
industrialism and the unprecedented material progress of Western civilization.
And because the secularistic revolt went too far and lost sight of God and true
religion, there also followed the unlooked-for harvest of world wars and
international unsettledness.
It is not necessary to sacrifice faith in God in order to enjoy the blessings of
the modern secularistic revolt: tolerance, social service, democratic
government,
and civil liberties. It was not necessary for the secularists to antagonize true
religion in order to promote science and to advance education.
But secularism is not the sole parent of all these recent gains in the
enlargement of living. Behind the gains of the twentieth century are not only
science and secularism but also the unrecognized and unacknowledged spiritual
workings of the life and teaching of Jesus of Nazareth.
Without God, without religion, scientific secularism can never co-ordinate its
forces, harmonize its divergent and rivalrous interests, races, and
nationalisms. This secularistic human society, notwithstanding its unparalleled
materialistic achievement, is slowly disintegrating. The chief cohesive force
resisting this disintegration of antagonism is nationalism. And nationalism is
the chief barrier to world peace.
The inherent weakness of secularism is that it discards ethics and religion for
politics and power. You simply cannot establish the brotherhood of men while
ignoring or denying the fatherhood of God.
Secular social and political optimism is an illusion. Without God, neither
freedom and liberty, nor property and wealth will lead to peace.
The complete secularization of science, education, industry, and society can
lead only to disaster. During the first third of the twentieth century Urantians
killed more human beings than were killed during the whole of the Christian
dispensation up to that time. And this is only the beginning of the dire harvest
of materialism and secularism; still more terrible destruction is yet to come.
9. CHRISTIANITY'S PROBLEM
Do not overlook the value of your spiritual heritage, the river of truth running
down through the centuries, even to the barren times of a materialistic and
secular age. In all your worthy efforts to rid yourselves of the superstitious
creeds of past ages, make sure that you hold fast the eternal truth. But be
patient! when the present superstition revolt is over, the truths of Jesus'
gospel will persist gloriously to illuminate a new and better way.
But paganized and socialized Christianity stands in need of new contact with the
uncompromised teachings of Jesus; it languishes for lack of a new vision of the
Master's life on earth. A new and fuller revelation of the religion of Jesus is
destined to conquer an empire of materialistic secularism and to overthrow a
world sway of mechanistic naturalism. Urantia is now quivering on the very brink
of one of its most amazing and enthralling epochs of social readjustment, moral
quickening, and spiritual enlightenment.
The teachings of Jesus, even though greatly modified, survived the mystery cults
of their birthtime, the ignorance and superstition of the dark ages, and are
even now slowly triumphing over the materialism, mechanism, and secularism of
the twentieth century. And such times of great testing and threatened defeat are
always times of great revelation.
Religion does need new leaders, spiritual men and women who will dare to depend
solely on Jesus and his incomparable teachings. If Christianity persists in
neglecting its spiritual mission while it continues to busy itself with social
and material problems, the spiritual renaissance must await the coming of these
new teachers of Jesus' religion who will be exclusively devoted to the spiritual
regeneration of men. And then will these spirit-born souls quickly supply the
leadership and inspiration requisite for the social, moral, economic, and
political reorganization of the world.
The modern age will refuse to accept a religion which is inconsistent with facts
and out of harmony with its highest conceptions of truth, beauty, and goodness.
The hour is striking for a rediscovery of the true and original foundations of
present-day distorted and compromised Christianity--the real life and teachings
of Jesus.
Primitive man lived a life of superstitious bondage to religious fear. Modern,
civilized men dread the thought of falling under the dominance of strong
religious convictions. Thinking man has always feared to be held by a religion.
When a strong and moving religion threatens to dominate him, he invariably tries
to rationalize, traditionalize, and institutionalize it, thereby hoping to gain
control of it. By such procedure, even a revealed religion becomes man-made and
man-dominated. Modern men and women of intelligence evade the religion of Jesus
because of their fears of what it will do to them--and with them. And all such
fears are well founded. The religion of Jesus does, indeed, dominate and
transform its believers, demanding that men dedicate their lives to seeking for
a knowledge of the will of the Father in heaven and requiring that the energies
of living be consecrated to the unselfish service of the brotherhood of man.
Selfish men and women simply will not pay such a price for even the greatest
spiritual treasure ever offered mortal man. Only when man has become
sufficiently disillusioned by the sorrowful disappointments attendant upon the
foolish and deceptive pursuits of selfishness, and subsequent to the discovery
of the barrenness of formalized religion, will he be disposed to turn
wholeheartedly to the gospel of the kingdom, the religion of Jesus of Nazareth.
The world needs more firsthand religion. Even Christianity--the best of the
religions of the twentieth century--is not only a religion about Jesus, but it
is so largely one which men experience secondhand. They take their religion
wholly as handed down by their accepted religious teachers. What an awakening
the world would experience if it could only see Jesus as he really lived on
earth and know, firsthand, his life-giving teachings! Descriptive words of
things beautiful cannot thrill like the sight thereof, neither can creedal words
inspire men's souls like the experience of knowing the presence of God. But
expectant faith will ever keep the hope-door of man's soul open for the entrance
of the eternal spiritual realities of the divine values of the worlds beyond.
Christianity has dared to lower its ideals before the challenge of human greed,
war-madness, and the lust for power; but the religion of Jesus stands as the
unsullied and transcendent spiritual summons, calling to the best there is in
man to rise above all these legacies of animal evolution and, by grace, attain
the moral heights of true human destiny.
Christianity is threatened by slow death from formalism, overorganization,
intellectualism, and other nonspiritual trends. The modern Christian church is
not such a brotherhood of dynamic believers as Jesus commissioned continuously
to effect the spiritual transformation of successive generations of mankind.
So-called Christianity has become a social and cultural movement as well as a
religious belief and practice. The stream of modern Christianity drains many an
ancient pagan swamp and many a barbarian morass; many olden cultural watersheds
drain into this present-day cultural stream as well as the high Galilean
tablelands which are supposed to be its exclusive source.
"All gods are homemade, and it is we who pull their strings"
Aldous Huxley
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inanity
I deleted the duplicate forum topic you created. Please do not cross-post the same topic in different forums. If you need a thread moved, ask a mod and we will be happy to assist you.
Thanks.
sorry about that. I am new to the site and realized after I posted this there was a general topic forum.Forgive me, introductions should come first. My name is Inanity and I am new to the site. I have been inundated my entire life by relgious nonsense which has lead me down the path of atheistism I love the site! It is an absolute hotbed for (finally) rational debate about these subjects.Thank you Thank you and nice to meet you all!
"All gods are homemade, and it is we who pull their strings"
Aldous Huxley
Not a problem, glad to meet you and welcome to the forums!!
How much of the garbage found in there required refutation? All I could see was
a) A lot of highly fallacious appeal to emotion, none of which contained much more than a great deal of ad nauseam (argument from repeated assertion).
b) Fallacy of Denying the antecedent (since the writer has never once shown how the invocation of supernatural automatically should give us all these wonderful things that "materialism denies" such as hope, joy, etc. etc. and then the very statement that materialism cannot account for such things is per se just revealing the author knows jack about neuroscience, which is fine since the article was written in 1928, but we can still laugh.
i) The invocation of supposed supernatural entity would solve the problems that materialism cannot regarding the existence of self.
ii)Makes an absurd claim that materialists cannot account for differences in personality and experience by materialism. But as any neuroscientist on the planet will tell you: We sure as fuck can.
Also, he/she/it never explains precisely how the invocation of a supernatural entity provides the solution, and merely asserts it as part of the negative argument from ignorance, which is rather obvious since it is impossible to reference the term supernatural, as shown here:
http://www.rationalresponders.com/a_clarification_regarding_my_position_relative_to_theological_noncognitivism
d) The writers armada of appeal to emotion fails to realize that
i) Reducibility of a system and axiology are totally different arms of philosopy
ii) There is no reason to suppose that was is essentially the invocation of magic should provide any emotional crutches that would not exist otherwise, except perhaps the rather pathetic one that you continue existence postmortem.
iii) The writer contintually makes use of ridiculous language like "godless science", "higher energy" (whatever the fuck that means) etc to press an emotional point, without ever even attempting to solve the problem of supernatural being an inchorent term, not necessarily providing solutions to existence any more than materialism, invoking something which when properly examined is inherently absurd etc. I'll say it again:
How does belief in magic suddenly solve these supposed problems? Both the actual problems (the problem of self) and the problems that he/she/it made up (I have an emotional need to believe in supernaturalism, therefore, it exists, and people who disagree are evil, big bad godless atheists who have no heart). Again, the writer never showed why this belief in magic, a belief in a word which is no better defined than a random string of letters I might make up, should solve these problems. Imagine:
Theist: But if you are a materialist, then all things are just matter and energy, and there is no purpose, hope or meaning.
Atheist: First of all, your conclusion is a non sequitor from your premise. You haven't even begun to justify the link between these two concepts, merely asserted it. Second, you haven't justified how the invocation of magic, which, let us be honest, is what you are doing, should generate hope, purpose or meaning. Thirdly, if you mean this argument as a pathetic philosophical objection to the notion of "abstraction" under the materialist viewpoint, you are making a) an argument from ignorance fallacy, since the lack of materialistic account for X is not evidence that X is accounted for by supernatural and b) an argument from your own ignorance, since neuroscience can form persuasive explanations of such things existing in sentient brains and c) a denying the antecedent fallacy since it begs the question of how the invocation of a supernatural being should or could provide the solution to these, er, ahem "problems"
If belief in magic was actually a solution to a problem, then we wouldn't have to fucking do anything to gain knowledge of the world!
c) Fallacy of incredulity and argument from ignorance. The writer argues that the mind is axiomatic evidence for the supernatural, which is simply an argument from ignorance regarind the materialistic account for the mind. Also, it shows that he/she/it knows nothing about neurololgy:
http://www.rationalresponders.com/vitalism_immaterialism_and_christian_dualism_have_long_since_been_debunked_response
Also, this link of mine has so good refutations of emotional fallacies against materialism.
http://www.rationalresponders.com/fallacies_commonly_employed_against_materialism_refuted
Oh, and lastly, he/she/it makes Descartes claim, which is that any material entity is an automaton
All this reveals is that she has never studied thermodynamics system dynamics, causality, or how the damn brain works! He/she/it is making a fallacy of conflation between reductionism and materialism, and while it is true that reductionism is one arm of materialism, materialism also has to and does deal with emergentism and emergent properties. But being that we have so much evidence that the materialist emergent nature of properties which the stupid bitch was so convinced were supernatural, the only pedestal upon which she can pretend to have high ground is that of emotionalist appeal, and even in that fetid field of endeavor, he/she/it justifies her claim with precisely nothing. Njet. Nein. Nada.
Lastly, you shoud change the title of the thread from "please rip this argument apart". This implies tht the writer has made an argument, instead of what is essentially so much asanine and unsubstantianted gibberish. For fun, go back and count the number of facts in that "essay". Actual statements of fact with factual backing. They might be statistics, or points which have historical evidence, or case studies, or examples that rely on evidence. How many did you find? One? two? Zero? What I am suggesting is that you should change the title of the thread from "please rip this apart" to "please laugh".
And I did.
"Physical reality” isn’t some arbitrary demarcation. It is defined in terms of what we can systematically investigate, directly or not, by means of our senses. It is preposterous to assert that the process of systematic scientific reasoning arbitrarily excludes “non-physical explanations” because the very notion of “non-physical explanation” is contradictory.
-Me
Books about atheism
Welcome, inanity!
Sadly, the world is just chock full of religious nonsense. It makes you wonder why some of us see the silliness of it and some don't.
We're glad you're here and look forward to your contributions to the discussions.
Atheist Books, purchases on Amazon support the Rational Response Squad server.
i would respond but Deludedgod did it perfectly.. Well done
i would respond but that was way too long
abosolutley brilliant response!!! More than I could ask for. Thank you thank you thank you Deludedgod.Thanks for the kind words everyone. I hope to bring new insights and perspectives to the site. Thank you to the moderators and administrator for keeping up a brilliant forum/site!peace
"All gods are homemade, and it is we who pull their strings"
Aldous Huxley
tl;dr
Masterpiece, DG.
Thank you but I don't think there was any particular strain nor effort taking into the refutation of this.
The Urantia Book is a very odd piece of work. We have no idea when it originated, most likely between 1924-1955, or who wrote it.
Much of the Urantia book is completely and utterly ridiculous, as you just saw. It is a mishmash of made up or obsolete science, the fusion of Christiainity with woo-woo which would make any New Age practitioner today very proud. It supports some extremely odd scientific claims (not necessarily outdated, simply made up) that appear to reconcile it with certain teachings of Hinduism. For example, it fully and repeatedly supports the idea that the universe is one trillion years old and expands and contracts repeatedly (a fusion of Nirvana). This is not in any way supported by any modern cosmology.
Also, since the book was written before Hubble discovered the Cepheid variable, it advocates Immanuel Kant's idea of "Island universes" and "superuniverses" and other ridiculous nonsense. The book also says that the fundamental particle of matter is called the "ultimaton" where 100 ultimatons make an electron. None of this is supported by modern particle physics.
The Urantia book also supports the following: Rapid single-mutation cladogeneis, a very, very short lived theory by Dutch biologist Hugo de Vries. It's been debunked for a while now.
Also, the Urantia book advocates that: Human races originated in a single generation, and were originally multi-colored. One family of humans existed, producing offspring who were red, orange, yellow, green, blue, purple and cyan. Adam and Eve literally existed and gave birth to bright purple children who later exterminated all the other bright-colored clans, and died off leaving the dull-colored races (brown, yellow, white, light red) behind.
Taking it seriously is the pastime of someone who claims to have a PhD in Homeopathy. A small group of people "believe" in the Urantia book, and these "believers" have a schism along those who believe its science is infallible, and those who "interpret it liberally". In other words...it is exactly like Christianity. The parallels are so shockingly accurate, they are funny. It truly is a testimony to how stupid some people are. It has become a religion with followers and schisms and apologetics and everything, although thankfully a very small one. But I think it illustrates simply how easy it is to conjure a religion. Look at FSM. They weren't even intendeing to create real believers, they assumed no one was that stupid. There is absolutely no difference between believing that primordial humans were flourescent colors and believing in Christianity...its just that one is a domininant religion, and one is not. Somehow I doubt that validity of the claims is the reason for that. It is an excellent example of why humans have religion.
There, does that make you feel better?
"Physical reality” isn’t some arbitrary demarcation. It is defined in terms of what we can systematically investigate, directly or not, by means of our senses. It is preposterous to assert that the process of systematic scientific reasoning arbitrarily excludes “non-physical explanations” because the very notion of “non-physical explanation” is contradictory.
-Me
Books about atheism
That has got to be one of the most outrageous fables I've ever heard.
Any chance there was an explanation as to why the bright-colored clans didn't kill off the dull-colored clans, too? Were they fighting over the superiority of their bright colors and didn't care about the dull ones?
*still shaking my head in disbelief over this one*
Does this person not understand recessive genes? If there was a shred of truth, sooner or later, a recessive gene would pop up and we'd have purple people again. (I shall refrain from a really bad pun here.)
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Oh, I understand now where the Smurfs, Tele Tubbies and the eerie creatures of Sesame Street came from. Bright colours, bright light, Gizmo, Gremlins... AAAHHHH!
Sometimes...
My brain just hurt...
Got to go read Skeptic Magazine for while now to counter the "dribble effect" hehe
If any christian is sure that rapture is imminient, I'll be happy to receive their worldly goods, thus ensuring that said theist don't have trouble with the camel, rich man and eye of a needle problem.