Before I do go to bed, I'll correct 'Theist' and 'Atheist'

 late night tiredness etc..

I'm childless, but I've done a lot of thinking about this topic because of the way my parents treated me. I was pretty much raised in a bubble. I went to church and a fundamentalist Christian school and was not allowed to associate with anyone who wasn't a fundamentalist Christian. I didn't even known what liberal Christians were until I attended a Christian university!

Parents have a right to be themselves, but they don't have a right to dictate their children's beliefs, period. Instead of teaching their children what to think, parents should teach their children how to think. This means teaching the child to think logically.

If I taught my child how to think logically and he or she became a theist, I would continue to love that child. I wouldn't necessarily agree with his or her decision, but once kids hit their teens, they need to start making their own decisions, even if they make some "wrong" ones and are forced to learn from their mistakes the hard way. I was never allowed to do this and as I watch my nephew turn into a young man, I am careful to treat him as much like an adult as I think he can handle. His nutcase fundy mother certainly won't. (I have a feeling the kid is going to be an atheist, BTW.)

I'd follow the example my parents put forward:

My mom was protestant and my dad was catholic, so when it came to religion I eventually ended up deciding for myself. My dad's parents guilted them into putting me into catholic private school for a while. After that I went through a number of different religions, since I really hated what I learned in private school. Each change of beliefs my parents were very supportive.

Now that I'm much older and I can run circles around my parents with logic, I think they're becoming more and more atheist. I just quote little absurd passages from the bible every now and then, and they question me about it. For example I once quoted the passage in I Corinth. 11:14 about men with long hair to my dad once, and he replied "but jesus had long hair!" "Yes," I said, "yes he did. So did Samson."

I have 2 daughters, one will be 5 in July the other is ~18 months. My oldest daughter is naturally curious. If things you tell her don't make sense, she'll call you on it.

My grandmother is pretty religious and she's been trying to explain god to my daughter, and she isn't having much luck. I keep linking to this old thread as an example.

I'll let my children make that decision when they are old enough.

I have told my son the same thing ever since he was old enough to understand. To me it doesn't matter if he ends up believing or not, but I really want him to learn critical thinking skills and arrive at his own conclusions. As long as he uses reason and critical thinking he will make decisions that are best for him.

I don't have any kids. And, I have occasionally heard of children of atheists becoming theists, like one of O'Hare's children. I guess I just find it hard to imagine a child of an atheist that wasn't overbearing becoming a theist. I suppose its possible. But, if the situation were to happen, I had a child and he/she was a theist, I think I would be somewhat annoyed, but I don't think I'd go nuts over it.

My son is a youth pastor. He is not overbearing as someone indicated they thought he would be.

I have been a vocal atheist his whole life, and his decision to embrace religion has had zero impact on our relationship.

I still tell him why I don't believe and why I find some of the things he says irrational.  Mostly, we talk about other things, but the subject is not taboo, hurtfull, or otherwise a problem.

Their choice, not mine.

I wouldnt disown a child for dissagreeing with me on any issue. If you love your child it is not a case of allways saying "do what I say". Good parenting involves good two way communication with the understanding on the parents side that the child might not grow up to want or value the same thing as the parent did.

Just as more and more people find it unacceptable to kick a child out for being gay, I would not in turn kick a child out for saying, "I believe in Jesus"

I dont have to like what my child believes, but I certianly cant beat it out of them either. Most parents will still love their children and not dissown them over something as petty as a dissagreement over the existance of God. Any parent who'd do that is insecure.

My only expectation would be that they understand that it is not their job to change the world or write religious laws through goverment based on sectarian grounds.

If common ground is to be found in humanity while still alowing differances to exist peacefully, humanity has to seek overlap insted of dominance. A child cannot be prepared for adulthood if the parent indocrinates them with tunnel vision. That will set them up to see others as the enemy insted of merely a friend with an aposiing view.

We as a species have it within us to refrain from using excuses of self defense or agression in acts of violence. It is because we still are stuck in club labels called nations, political parties and religions.

This is not an anarchist view. Independance and autonomy and the disire to live without fear of one's neighbor is in us all. We create fear from issues so petty most of the time. It is because the labels are superficial and block chances of overlap.

Humanity is stil stuck in the mentality of beating the crap out of  each other over what amounts to calling your sister a whore.

I think the world's youth diserves better. I think humanity has it within themselves to maintain individuality while still seeking cooperation without dictation.

It does start with our children. But it cant sustain a positive outlook when we seek to dominate without the free market of ideas .

When you get a little older, you will discover that you are not your  child, and you will also discover that your child's success, survival, and happiness will be all that matters.

You will also discover you disagree on many, many things and that being angry at yourself for what your child thinks is a dead end.

A very timely question.  It is what caused me to start posting on this board.  I have a 16 month old child that my wife wants to take to church and as a relatively 'new' atheist, I was wondering where others stood on the issue so I could help formulate my thoughts and examine my pre-conceptions. (I think a lot better with a sounding board.)

This is what I came up with.  What my child believes hold absolutely no bearing on what I feel about her, just as my feelings towards my wife are not affected by her belief.  I would be a tad concerned if she swallowed the fundy crap, but I hope I will do a better job of raising her to think critically then that.

Hi stuntgibbon.  Welcome to the forums.

You answered that you would be shocked, but how would you feel and how would you deal with your child if they, in fact, became a theist?

I would seriously question the way I brought her up. Children grow in the form from which they were molded. I believe that in order to raise a free child, they must be protected from the temptations put forth by the religious institutions. Avoid at all costs the "bible camps" and the "visitor days" at the churches.

If a child is poisoned by religion, they were obviously exposed to something that convinced them that blind faith was okay. 

My parents are cultural Christians, they don't really believe in God really, nor the truth of the bible but they always put Church of England (protestant church founded by Henry VIII, official state religion in law) on census forms. My Grandpa (dad's dad) is a vicar who baptised several of my cousins, and married my parents. I however was never baptised, neither were my brother and sister. My parents always wanted me to find my own way, to think for myself. I don't think they ever made it clear by absolutely saying go and think critically but they did tell me several times once I began to think about religion that I could make whatever choice I wanted, and they'd prooved this years earlier, when at the age of five I personally decided I wanted to be vegetarian. They do however, when discussing the indoctrination of children into religion, respect parent's rights to do so, they claimed to have indoctrinated me, although there is a big difference between teaching moral agency and teaching irrational thought.

With my own kids, when I have them, I will not shelter them from religion. They will be open to all religions, ultimately the decision will be theirs to make. I will always stress the importance of critical thinking. It shouldn't be too hard, intelligence seems to run in my family. grandad (mum's dad) who worked all his life, never went to university (wishes he had), never had an education beyond high school, is still sharp as a ball, very clever, very philosophical and is an atheist. I actually agree with him on a lot of things, except perhaps politics (it is my other theistic grandpa who I agree with more on politics), whenever I see either of them it results in an in depth discussion. My granny (mum's) tries to pitch in occasionally but really doesn't have much of a clue. I guess I was raised in a family where there has always been debate, challenging each other, my auntie and uncle (dad's sister and her husband) are both professional academics so Cordingley family get togethers are always fantastic! Thinking has always been important to my family, and I really hope that my kids get the same. They will probably turn out atheists anyway. They'll be too clever to be theists really (seeing as I find clever women attractive, I assume my children will have a clever mother too). If they were theists, it would depend on the age I guess, but once they were in the double digits I would certainly challenge them but reinforce it as their decision ultimately. If they were younger it would probably be more indifferent. They'll grow out of it.

just curious: is it true that crazy old Jerry Falwell's father was an atheist?

I have thought about this subject alot over the last year since the birth of my son. I feel that if I teach him to be an atheist then I am endoctrine him into a belief, the same as christians do their children. I believe atheism is a awakening, you open your eyes to see the truth, and if you like it or not, there is no going back. I would hope my son will take the blue pill and see the world as it is, not the as they want you too.

I definitely agree. It was alot like an awakening on my part. However, I like to call it ENLIGHTENIMENT!

I would feel a bit like I failed to protect them. I guess I would feel similar to if they got into any other drugs in a big way. I think religion would be similar to finding out my kid had a heroin habit to be honest. I would still love and care for them but I would feel guilty as to not having done enough to prevent them from falling into bad habits. In fact heroin would probably be preferable its got a much better recovery rate.

WHAT???  My dogs are theists??     My 3 dogs ARE my children.  Gay men have a hard time reproducing with each other (though we keep trying...)  hehehe

Seriously, IF I had biological kids - I'd support them in their life choices (whether they were dealing with matters of faith, sexual orientation, or anything else) and help them with making an informed decision.  Would I mind?  No, not really - as long as they were happy...

(I didn't think sniffing butts and eating poop was a very "theist" thing to do ... but then again, I've seen stranger things than that).

My family is Catholic, thru and thru. Still, for some reason, I suppose it was honesty and wanting to encourage my curiosity and intellectual development - my parents never denied me access to anything.

Oddly enough, so did my priest.

For me, I was encouraged to answer every question I had. There were weekly trips to the library and museums, and I loved those days.

If I ever have children, I'll simply hope they will be as inquisitive as I was, and I'll encourage that like my family did. Afterall, at the end of the day, that's really what destroys susceptability to the shit the other side is shoveling.

If the kid cannot figure out what's what on their own with free access to info, then it's time for a paternity test, because I seriously doubt any child of mine could fall for such horse shit given the choice and acess to info they deserve.

I wouldn't lie if I said I'd feel dissapointed and like I failed or something that they became theist. Might pick their brains as to why too...... if they were pretty firm in their beliefs as a theist I probably wouldn't mess with that and deal with it.

So, then, people in, say, Nebraska in 1940, could argue that since there are no SS Panzer brigades in Omaha, it must follow that there is no such person as Adolph Hitler.

This is all sounding a bit shakey....

Ah ha, but there were SS Panzer divisions in most of Europe at the time, which was a verifiable fact even to those living in Nebraska.  There has never been a verifiable monster under a bed or ghost (by verifiable, I mean having more than a few people able to see, touch, smell, hear, etc. or by being able to go and see, touch, smell, etc. yourself).  I agree that things are getting shakey here, but I'm pretty sure that it's your logic.

Side note: Hi all!  New here, but I'll make sure to introduce myself over in the proper forum.

I really don't know what I'd do.

I was raised without religion, as was my brother--I'm a liberal atheist, he is a militant Christian conservative. I love him so much, but I also hate this part of him, and even thinking about it is devastating. He's a very clever boy and the fact this religion has instilled so much hate in him just... upsets me.

I would have trouble dealing with a theist child. I think as someone else mentioned, it would be like having a child who became a race hatemonger. I understand there are degrees to belief, and I could accept a child who thought there was "something else out there" in a vague way, as I've read about spiritual feelings being related to a part of the brain, and that you can't really change a child's genetics. But if the child joined an organised religion that advocated against things like gay marriage and other rights issues (and there are so many), it would make me feel like I had failed, in the same way I often feel like I've failed my brother.

My partner, also an atheist, was raised in a religious situation
and isn't as worried as me about the potential of having an atheist child--he assumes they'll be an atheist automatically. From my personal experience I know that this won't necessarily be the case, and it worries me a lot, especially as we're planning to have children in the next two years.