Prove Theists Really Exist (Response to 'Prove An Atheist Really Exists').
Posted on: June 12, 2007 - 11:10am
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Prove Theists Really Exist (Response to 'Prove An Atheist Really Exists').
Every theist I have ever met has their own conceptualized version of god.
There is not one theist (mostly christians) who has ever given me the exact same definition of god, christians are always saying "well, he wasn't a TRUE christian".
Well, this is a challenge (mainly to christians), prove how you are a TRUE believer as opposed to all the other believers.
[Edit - added link]
P.S. This post is in reponse to this thread.
[Edit - Changed title a bit]
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LOL!
I suppose this question will come at them when they try to talk their way into heaven; so, they might as well start trying to answer it now!
"Tis better to rule in Hell than to serve in Heaven." -Lucifer
It's because atheism is easier to define. Basically, atheism is:
You know all that shit that theists believe? Not that.
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LOL! No fair, Wavefreak. That's a cop out!!!
If god takes life he's an indian giver
I like his definition though, I am gonna start using that.
Let's see if they do....
We seem to have a paucity of opinions now. Curious how they flee when a gauntlet is thrown down.
"Tis better to rule in Hell than to serve in Heaven." -Lucifer
bump
Yea thats an hilarious way to explain it. And it's from a theist no less(Wavefreak i say that because so so so many people define atheist in the wrong way it's refreshing to see someone who actually understands!).
*Bump*
*bumping for the afternoon crowd*
Definition of a theist: no common sense whatsoever, illogical, irrational, cocky, only argeument is usually "you're going straight to hell, so it doesn't matter what you think".
Good definition?
VERITAS OMNIA VINCIT
No
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I'm sure some atheists here will concur that there are rational logical theists on this board.
Pineapple, I like you...
This post was directed at the theists who come here claiming we do not exist simply because we disagree with them. I would love to see some of the 'christian' type theists respond to the original topic.
I hate to do this, but it's easy and fun.
I exist. I'm an atheist. Atheists can't exist if there are no theists. Therefore theists exist.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
I wasn't talking to you BGH, I was responding to Paranoia21
Okay, no problem.
This is great!!
Vastet, I also like your explanation and I hope theists exists because some of them are quite intelligent and funny!!
lol, I don't think anyone is going to respond because they'd be commiting a "no true scotsman" fallacy if they did. (or would they if they claimed there was no such thing as a true theist?)
Thank you for confirming my thoughts.
VERITAS OMNIA VINCIT
Glad to help. Unfortunately, I have met theists that fit this definition perfectly.
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If theists didn't exist we simply wouldn't be called atheists, or we might still be called atheists simply because language might not change as quickly.
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To answer your first post BGH, i might have to get a little irrational and this is my opinion and not stated fact or accepted by most people.
the problem we run into is that we try, as a theist, to define God. there is no TRUE believer, only us that are still "on the road'. i do not choose a denomination because i feel i could learn from all the different sects. we, as theists, would be foolish to think that we knew the exact truth.
i think that is an important and strong reality of God. if we had the truth we would have nothing to seek. we would be blind to other individuals and unable to grow. we would even be unable to completely understand all that He has created. we can explore the physical world all day and learn facts, but our exploration in the spiritual world is still growing.
I believe each man's walk to find God is different. i feel we have different convictions that guides our way. each of us have different "jobs" to best suit our talents and interests.
as much as i loathe their ways, even catholics have a certain purpose. well... humm.... maybe better said that some good christians are in the catholic church and they have a certain purpose. it's not my place to judge what they do but i think works speak for themselves. hail Jesus! lol
as for other religions that believe in God i'm not sure. i try not to make the mistake of judging them and i do value some information they bring to the topic. i know that our Christian God says the only way to Him is though Jesus. i don't want to mislead anyone but i would be open to the fact that Jesus could go by other names or in another form. i am not saying i believe that!!! i'm just saying that i do not know for sure but if they are seeking Him then they will find their way.
May God bless us and give us the words to express our ideas in a creative and civil manner, while providing us an ear that we may truly hear each other, and a voice to clearly project our thoughts.
Well, this is understandable and seems to be a more reasonable way to look at it.
Let me ask you this, how do you feel about the theists that come to the forums claiming there is no such thing as an atheist. As I responded in your thread, "heart to heart -rather than- fact to fact", I am incapable of believing, I have tried.
Though I may disagree or have no understanding of 'god', at least you are honest about what you know and what you feel.
Narrow minded bigot is my first impression.
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i think atheist is a definition of a belief (or a lack of) not as much as a description of a person. it's not that anyone wants to predefine it but when people hear the word they are subject to their own interpretations... their experiences, knowledge and preset bias of an atheist. i think to define such would go a lot deeper than i could go, with the though of who is "i" as a person and what labels we tend to give others. though our knowledge to us is considered "good logic" it may not be to others.
it would be impossible for me to deny the word "atheist" because i just typed it. it would be equally impossible for me to deny the person "atheist" because i am responding to one. as far as one's idea on what is "atheist", i suggest i have no ability to define another's connection to the word. people are complex little beings with independent thoughts, fears, passions and conclusions.
as far as the abilities you have, i would suggest that the possibilities are endless. you have gone further than most theists by asking why. as long as you are moving forward on your road, embracing both aspects of yourself - your heart and mind, you will find your way. i think we might "try" too hard sometimes.
the word "try" tends to imply a honest attempt without a successful result. yet within any attempt there is knowledge to be gained, knowledge and discovery is power, so as describing the result as a failure could deny the experience that you earned.
i do not believe that we should only go by our feelings yet i also believe that we overestimate our logic. though feelings can be irrational, they can lead to a rational end. i say keep going the way that you are, if you seek the answers you will find them.
May God bless us and give us the words to express our ideas in a creative and civil manner, while providing us an ear that we may truly hear each other, and a voice to clearly project our thoughts.
Agreed.
True, which is why we are here to discuss, so we can dispel some of those preconceived notions.
Here I feel you are getting caught up in semantics.
I know I exist and I know what I do not believe. For a theist, who in their close-minded attempts to deny there are others in the world who think differently than them, feels the need to make the claim that there is no such thing as an atheist is dishonest. A similar claim can be made of theists as a counter point, because no two believers can 100% agree on what/who god is, there must be no ‘TRUE’ believer. You have alluded to as much in your previous post.
Again, this is semantics, but I understand your point.
That, I have and I will continue to ask ‘why, until the day I cease to be.
This I disagree with, my personality does not allow much searching with my heart, and rather I am very analytical. I am not good on the touchy-feely half.
As I will, and the same goes for you. Keep searching and you will always learn something new.
P.S. Thank you for your honesty, I deeply appreciate it.
no problem BGH. if you have anymore questions i would be happy to talk with you more.
No offense but if you are looking to discuss the answers I can find in 'god' belief you are barking up the wrong tree. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt and summarily destroyed the shirt in a science experiment.
Thanks for the offer though.
huh? not sure if i complete understand...
LOL! I have seen the t-shirt. It doesn't look good.
Sapphen, I appreciate your thoughts on this subject, but I guess I am unclear about your last post. What kind of answers do you think you have that we all haven't already heard? Some of us were raised atheist, but many of us were raised theists and tried, oh boy did we try to believe. Personally, I have asked the same question many times and the answers I have heard range from odd to utterly absurd. Please do not misunderstand this post - I respect your beliefs and your interpretation of god and enjoy reading your thoughts on these threads, but unless you are actually god I am not sure what answers you can provide.
(P.S. - sorry to butt in on your response to BGH.)
If you mean answer more questions from a theists perspective, I might take you up on that sometime.
If you mean questions about god and how I can find the 'truth' in him, I am not interested. I have tried that path.
it was just a kind retort to continue conversation if he wished. answers can be ideas or perspectives other than just fact and are subject to right and wrong. i do not think i have any answers that could profoundly change your perspective or make you suddenly believe in God. i wasn't aware of the fact that i made it sound like i did and i am sorry.
May God bless us and give us the words to express our ideas in a creative and civil manner, while providing us an ear that we may truly hear each other, and a voice to clearly project our thoughts.
And I am sorry if I misunderstood you.
Sorry! Didn't mean to get defensive. Let's just say there have been others that have tried to "provide answers" and their motives were not exactly intellectual. I am very glad there are theists such as yourself who are willing to discuss these and many other issues so that we can learn from each other.
i completely understand and humbly accept your appoligy.
BGH, i admire you intelligence and ability for rational conversation. to converse further with you on any topic would be an honor.
May God bless us and give us the words to express our ideas in a creative and civil manner, while providing us an ear that we may truly hear each other, and a voice to clearly project our thoughts.
*bump*
I really appreciate your question. I found it very interesting. To let you know, I am more of a theist than an atheist or an agnostic. I cannot argue that I am TRUE Christian nor a TRUE believer, but perhaps I can give insight on why every theist has their own conceptualized version of god.
Many Christians and theists believe that man is a manifestation or expression of God and that God is an abstract idea. Abstract ideas are in nature metaphysical. In order to express God, which is an abstract idea, one needs creative power. If man did not have creative power, then he would be merely a machine through which God worked—an automaton. Man is not an automaton, but an individualized consciousness. The many infinite conceptions of God will equal the infinite number of ways that God individualizes Himself in distinct focal points of consciousness, each one quite different, and each a different experience. The consciousness of each one is distinct form God and from all others, and none are separated.
How can this be? How can two things be one, and yet one and the same? The answer is that in material plan, which is finite, they cannot; but in spirit plane, which is infinite they can.
I hope this helpedI asked to be banned, so I was banned.
Very well written post, but I disagree with you on this. From my experience, atleast in southern Oklahoma all the way up to Wichita Kansas, the idea of God is a physical and spiritual one, at the same time. Most of them, being Christians, believe that Jesus isn't just the son of God, but he IS God, however, he exists on both this plane and the other. They don't think of the whole premise of God as being anything more than "Some dude in a cloud and some dude on the ground." They, very literally, don't look into it much deeper than that. Again, though, this is from my personal experience with church as well as the opinions I have seen from many others all that which range from Lawton, Oklahoma to Wichita, Kansas.