Russell Island.

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Russell Island.

 

I should have this poem in the thread I have here arleady. But I find it too importannt to leave alone. 

The following poem I wrote in 2018 upon visiting my now late friend, who at the time, was in a nursing home, whom at the time  I got to visit the island he lived on, and fell in love with. 

 

Russell Island, By Brian37(AKA Brian James Rational Poet on FB and brianrrs37 on twitter)

From the veranda
Overlooking the sloped backyard
To see the beauty 
Is not that hard

Mangrove trees
With octopus roots
In low tide
Attack the drying mud

Great pretender
This half moon lagoon
Pretending it is a dry riverbed
In some scorching part of Africa

But no,
It is just a slight indentation
In my friend's back yard
High tide will remind it

Shimmering silverback waters
No you are not Africa
The underlying turqoise
Of the bay will remind you

The calm tide gently creeps in
It wants to sooth the angry roots
Lapping around them as if
They're  photons acting as both particle and wave

Those clever double slit waters
Undulate the shadows of the roots
Swaying and snaking 
Under the broccoli branch mangrove

And those chimps 
Are not Orangatangs
Any which way but loose 
They're kookaburras

Lap lap lap
The tide slowly creeps in
A heavy piece of driftwood
Submerges like a navy sub

But it is only temporary 
The tide retreats
Those angry roots
Exposed again

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


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 Good thing it was 2018.

 Good thing it was 2018. Today, you wouldn't be allowed to visit your friend before he passed. 

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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Beyond Saving wrote: Good

Beyond Saving wrote:

 Good thing it was 2018. Today, you wouldn't be allowed to visit your friend before he passed. 

Hey asshole, just so you know, if this pandemic had happened back then, I know him well enough, he would have told me to stay home. And considering he was in a nursing home, why the fuck would I risk carrying it to him or others there? I am not that selfish.

 

But even today, I my best friend lives in Oklahoma. I would love to go visit him too. But he like me understands our desires don't override public safety. 

 

Some people have to work or be homeless, I get that. But people like me who have the means to shelter at home do. The only time I go out now is to shop for food, nothing more. 

 

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


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 And for once in your life

 

And for once in your life Beyond, stop thinking about how much you don't like me, and think about yourself in all this.

 

How would you feel if you found out you got it and gave it to someone you loved, and they died as a result. It is one thing to be on a job where the risk is warrented, such as a doctor or nurse or policeman or fireman. And even those who are poor and have no choice but to work or be homeless. But I hope are not so hartless to not feel a damned thing if you foud out you picked the virus up at a movie theatre or bar and brought it home to a loved one and they died, because you took an unesssary risk.

 

If you have the means to shelter at home you should. That is saying you care about others. 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


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 Just so you know, he had

 

Just so you know, he had his stroke in 2016.  That year his sister offered to pay to fly both me and John, there for his birthday in the hopes it would push him to recover to the point he could go back home. I would have gone but for the fact my now late mother was having multiple health issues and mobility issues and I couldn't leave her. I would have felt horrible and helpless if I had gone back then and something had happened to my mother and I wasn't there for her.

 

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


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Brian37 wrote: I would have

Brian37 wrote:

 I would have felt horrible and helpless if I had gone back then and something had happened to my mother and I wasn't there for her.

Yet you are expecting people today, who's mothers, fathers, sons, daughters, lovers, friends etc. who are at the end of their lives, to NOT be there for them. People are being prevented from seeing their loved ones in their dying moments- why? Because Covid might be spread to someone who is ALREADY FUCKING DYING? That is something that cannot be repaired. People, who have a dying loved one are being told "no, you can't see them". If you support blocking someone from visiting a dying loved one. FUCK YOU. That is lasting, permanent psychological damage that the survivors will have to live with for the rest of their lives. 

Just try, for one DAMN second, to have a little empathy for the damage you fascists are causing to others. You describe that you would have felt "horrible and helpless"- would you have felt better if it was the government preventing you from seeing her? These important moments, the things that make us connected with our loved ones and help us get through our grief- that is being stolen from so many people. I remember my last visit to my mother, and our last words, so vividly. I am forever thankful that I had the opportunity, and that she had about 10-minutes of clarity that I knew, she knew, I was there. To deny that to another human being is monsterous. 

 

 

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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Brian37 wrote:Some people

Brian37 wrote:

Some people have to work or be homeless, I get that. But people like me who have the means to shelter at home do. The only time I go out now is to shop for food, nothing more. 

Yet you support a government that is preventing those people from working, just because of what YOU think they should do. It isn't about YOU. FYI, most people have to work or will be homeless. We are not talking some small subset of the population. Maybe you somehow managed to inherit enough that you can just piss on those below you, but when you were washing dishes, how many of your coworkers could go a month or two without working and still be able to support their families? 

 

How quickly a little financial security has gone to your head. Fuck'em, I've got mine! 

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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in my personal opinion, the

in my personal opinion, the truth, as usual, probably lies somewhere in the middle. i understand that things need to return to normal, but it must be done very slowly. that process has already begun here in slovakia. then again, our curve has been flattened for awhile. our healthcare system is currently in no danger of being overwhelmed. the main problem with america in a crisis like this is the strong sense of individualism. slovakia has much more of a community spirit, of, "ok, let's all grit our teeth and come through this as quickly as possible." our closures mostly started around march 15 and already things are opening back up. thankfully, many people, including myself, were able to work from home and still draw our salary, either completely or partially. internet service providers increased or did away with data caps. a recession has been predicted, of course, but our economy is likely to bounce back next year, if this crisis doesn't get worse.

 

i definitely empathize with those prevented from earning their livelihood, but i'm also disgusted by how the right has hijacked this fear for their own violent and xenophobic agenda. ironically, i'm also shocked at how the anti-vaxxers are suddenly seeing a resurgence. mostly, i'm disgusted at how politicized this crisis has gotten in the US in general. here in slovakia, there has been a little political blame-gaming, sure, but for the most part, both government and opposition are united in calling for protective measures and a gradual return to normal. lately, our confirmed new cases have averaged 0-8 a day, and our current death toll is 27, versus 1,060 recoveries. total cases is around 1,470. the bloomberg report has hailed slovakia as a positive example. i've never been prouder to live here.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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 It will be interesting in

 It will be interesting in retrospect to see if closures made even an ounce of difference. The idea, as initially peddled, was that it would prevent overwhelming of the medical system- which for the vast majority of the US wasn't even close to an issue- most hospitals are sitting near empty and medical staff is being laid off. A few hotspots got overwhelmed, but not nearly as bad as the models projected. Meanwhile, data suggests that the virus spreads even with social distancing, even among those who are staying home. Because its a fucking virus that is so damned small it can even get through N-95 masks. 

 

Meanwhile, Sweden didn't close everything down, they just encouraged people to use some common sense measures and their death-rates are roughly inline with other countries. If the theories are right, Sweden should be breaking out materially more than elsewhere, but they aren't. It is hard to get true comparisons because you have a lot of other variables that are going to impact known infection rates (the more you test, the more you find!), death rates and such. We'll know a lot more when we start comprehensive antibody testing. My money is that shit-tons more people have been exposed than anyone currently believes. When they do mass testing of a group, they have routinely found that a large portion are asymtomatic. When we find out how many people actually had Covid, I bet we find out that it didn't matter a hill of fucking beans whether we were social distancing or having an orgy in the Walmart parking lot- the people susceptible to getting it, got it or will get it. You can't prevent a pandemic from spreading. The world's only hope was to completely cut off all travel from China very early on. Even that probably would have done little more than slow the spread in such a small world. That we didn't even really try until people were already dying here- well once people are dying, it has been spreading for at least a month. How many people do you have contact with over a full month? How many people did they have contact with? And how many people did those people have contact with? Well, almost everyone.

That's why the first thing the scientists said was that social distancing would not decrease the number of infections, it would only slow down the spread in an effort to ensure the medical system had sufficient capacity to offer qualtiy care. Somehow, somewhere along the line, that reality has been completely ignored and that research has been thrown in the waste bin. We have deluded ourselves into thinking that we can actually reduce the number of illnesses- we can't. As soon as it became clear that the models were woefully wrong (because they assumed the first infection was much later than it was and dramatically underestimated the speed of the spread), and that the hospitalizations were not going to be nearly as severe as anticipated, all this shut-down shit should have been tabled. Sure, wash your hands, stay home when you are sick and stay clean- that is common fucking sense that everyone should do all the time.    

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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Beyond Saving wrote:Brian37

Beyond Saving wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

 I would have felt horrible and helpless if I had gone back then and something had happened to my mother and I wasn't there for her.

Yet you are expecting people today, who's mothers, fathers, sons, daughters, lovers, friends etc. who are at the end of their lives, to NOT be there for them. People are being prevented from seeing their loved ones in their dying moments- why? Because Covid might be spread to someone who is ALREADY FUCKING DYING? That is something that cannot be repaired. People, who have a dying loved one are being told "no, you can't see them". If you support blocking someone from visiting a dying loved one. FUCK YOU. That is lasting, permanent psychological damage that the survivors will have to live with for the rest of their lives. 

Just try, for one DAMN second, to have a little empathy for the damage you fascists are causing to others. You describe that you would have felt "horrible and helpless"- would you have felt better if it was the government preventing you from seeing her? These important moments, the things that make us connected with our loved ones and help us get through our grief- that is being stolen from so many people. I remember my last visit to my mother, and our last words, so vividly. I am forever thankful that I had the opportunity, and that she had about 10-minutes of clarity that I knew, she knew, I was there. To deny that to another human being is monsterous. 

 

 

 

NO YOU STUPID FUCK!

 

You didn't read a fucking thing I typed!

 

In a ideal world, OF COURSE everyone wants to be by the side of someone they love. NO FUCKING SHIT.

 

But if it were not Bob, but me, and covid was going on under the same conditions. I would have told Bob not to come to visit me EVEN IF I WAS DYING.

What is so fucking hard to understand about that?

In a pandemic like this, it isn't about the sick our those who want to see the sick. EVERYONE FUCKING GETS THAT. OF COURSE YOU WANT TO BE WITH YOUR LOVED ONES.

 

BUT neither my late friend Bob or my late mother were dying during a pandemic. 

If you and I were best friends, FOR EXAMPLE, with what is going on, and I knew I was going to die from Covid, I WOULD TELL YOU TO STAY THE FUCK AWAY.  Not for me, but for anyone that could pass it to you, our you could pass it to me in the proccess of trying to get to me.

 

There is a REASON even outside our personal beefs, in REALITY outside this website, that nursing homes have severely restricted access inside and outside their institutions. TO FUCKING PROTECT NOT ONLY THE PATIENTS, BUT THE EMPLOYEES TOO.

I love my best freind Bob, and I love my best friend John, and most certianly I love my late mother. But, if I was in a hospital diagnosed with COVID, I would want all of them to stay the fuck away from me. FOR THEM, NOT ME.

 

This isn't fucking brain surgury!

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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Brian37 wrote:NO YOU STUPID

Brian37 wrote:

NO YOU STUPID FUCK!

 

You didn't read a fucking thing I typed!

 

In a ideal world, OF COURSE everyone wants to be by the side of someone they love. NO FUCKING SHIT.

 

But if it were not Bob, but me, and covid was going on under the same conditions. I would have told Bob not to come to visit me EVEN IF I WAS DYING.

What is so fucking hard to understand about that?

That is between you and Bob. There is a huge difference between two people making a decision between themselves, one of you is the one who has to deal with and live with all the emotions of that decision, and someone else, who doesn't even fucking know you, making that decision and forcing you to do what they think is best.

I know, you have never understood the difference between having free choice and imposing your choices on everyone else in the world. 

 

Quote:

In a pandemic like this, it isn't about the sick our those who want to see the sick. EVERYONE FUCKING GETS THAT. OF COURSE YOU WANT TO BE WITH YOUR LOVED ONES.

 

BUT neither my late friend Bob or my late mother were dying during a pandemic. 

Well aren't you lucky. You got yours, fuck everyone else. 

 

Quote:

If you and I were best friends, FOR EXAMPLE, with what is going on, and I knew I was going to die from Covid, I WOULD TELL YOU TO STAY THE FUCK AWAY.  Not for me, but for anyone that could pass it to you, our you could pass it to me in the proccess of trying to get to me.

If my best friend were dying of Covid, only physically imprisoning me would prevent me from being by her side. If I had to lock myself in a quarantine room for a damn month afterwards, so be it. If I get Covid and die from it, oh well. Worth it. Because I would rather be dead than to not be there for my best friend. 

The difference between you and me is that I respect your ability to make decisions in your own life, and if you choose to visit or not visit a loved one is none of my business. You would stand at the door with a gun to keep me from making a decision because you think you are better equipped to make decisions than me (well not you personally with a gun, you would have someone else do the dirty work)

 

Quote:

There is a REASON even outside our personal beefs, in REALITY outside this website, that nursing homes have severely restricted access inside and outside their institutions. TO FUCKING PROTECT NOT ONLY THE PATIENTS, BUT THE EMPLOYEES TOO.

Yet the evidence suggests that Covid has been spreading through nursing facilities all the same. Despite draconian restrictions. But who needs evidence? You KNOW you are right, God, ahem Government, told you so. 

 

Quote:

I love my best freind Bob, and I love my best friend John, and most certianly I love my late mother. But, if I was in a hospital diagnosed with COVID, I would want all of them to stay the fuck away from me. FOR THEM, NOT ME.

That is your choice, and I respect your right to make it. I am only asking you to accept my right to make choices as well, even if you disagree with them. 

 

This isn't fucking brain surgury!

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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Beyond Saving wrote:Brian37

Beyond Saving wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

 I would have felt horrible and helpless if I had gone back then and something had happened to my mother and I wasn't there for her.

Yet you are expecting people today, who's mothers, fathers, sons, daughters, lovers, friends etc. who are at the end of their lives, to NOT be there for them. People are being prevented from seeing their loved ones in their dying moments- why? Because Covid might be spread to someone who is ALREADY FUCKING DYING? That is something that cannot be repaired. People, who have a dying loved one are being told "no, you can't see them". If you support blocking someone from visiting a dying loved one. FUCK YOU. That is lasting, permanent psychological damage that the survivors will have to live with for the rest of their lives. 

Just try, for one DAMN second, to have a little empathy for the damage you fascists are causing to others. You describe that you would have felt "horrible and helpless"- would you have felt better if it was the government preventing you from seeing her? These important moments, the things that make us connected with our loved ones and help us get through our grief- that is being stolen from so many people. I remember my last visit to my mother, and our last words, so vividly. I am forever thankful that I had the opportunity, and that she had about 10-minutes of clarity that I knew, she knew, I was there. To deny that to another human being is monsterous. 

 

 

 

Once again asshole, stop twisting my words. You don't get to put thoughts in my head that are not there.

 

YOU not me, YOU brought up my friend, whom I know way better than you. Now you are trying to imply I am a hartless uncaring asshole.

 

NO! Any damned nurse or doctor is going to tell everyone it is not a good idea to be around at risk people. THAT IS NOT ME, those are the medical professionals. Are you implying they don't know what the fuck they are talking about? You'd be willing to risk killing an old person because of your own narrow thinking. It isn't just your loved one living in a nursing home, 50 or even 100 depending nursing home.  Even major hospitals are heavely restricting access of loved ones. Not because they like causing emotional pain, but because they want to reduce the risk of the spread.

Nurses and doctors don't like telling loved ones of the elderly to stay away. I DON'T Either. But lets say someone elses loved one is in a nursing home, but not dying, but you go in without knowing you have it, and someoene else's loved one who isn't dying gets it? Once again, you are not thinking about others, only yourself. Nursing homes also act as rehab to give those a chance to recover and go back home. Nursing homes are not all dying people.  And nursing homes for the most part share the same shower rooms same physical thearapy and same cafeteeria. Not just the dying, but even people who simply need help. Nursing homes are far different than "assisted living". 

 

Nursing homes are not designed as personal hospices. My late mother was in one.  I know people who work at nursing homes. They hate having to keep people away. I don't like it either.  It is dangerous right now to have countess people being unregulated and untested with no vaccine to be around at risk individuals. NOBODY LIKES that harsh truth, but right now it is a reality that is better to accept. 

 And fuck you calling me a fascists. I hate dictators. Being told by medical experts doing somehting right now is a bad idea, isn't fascisim. If you stupidly think that is tryanny call the piolot on your next flight a tyrant for putting on the "fasten seatbelt sign." You do know it is illegal to disobey flight staff?  So if nursing home staff are telling you to stay away, they are not out to cause you personal pain. They are simply thinking of the saftey of everyone living there. Just like you should follow the instructions of flight staff in an emergancy.

Staying away from at risk people, doesn't mean they have to be old or dying. Underlyinng conditions can affect anyone at any age if they have them. You stupidly think all old people in nursing homes are all taking their last breath. Shows your fucking ignorance of nursing homes. 

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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 And of course anyone would

 

And of course anyone would prefure to be with their loved ones in their last days. You keep stupidly thinking I am heartless. No, I am simply taking into account these are not times as normal, and unfortunately harsh measures are needed to reduce risk of spread for right now. If the passenger jet you are on, cant lower it's landing gear, and the piliot and staff tell you to do something, you don't get to ignore them. This isnt about causing emotional pain to others, it is about safety, nothing more. And sometimes there are emergencies that require harsh truths to be told.  This pandemic is one of those events. 

 

Now if you want long term solutions to avoid things like being told to stay away from loved ones. Then instead of masturbating over billionaire tax breaks we need universal health care, affordable living, and a care at home program like hospice at home, but not a private charity or private pay service. 

My late mother paid 4k a month to be in that nursing home. Not everyone can afford that care. Certainly not the working poor. And when even the middle class get to the point of needing that care, the cost can bankrupt them. Old people who need long term care, at least in my county, only become state funded once their bank accounts get below 2,000 dollars. Heartless is our health care system that bankrupts people. My mom is one of the lucky few that had a government teacher's pension. 

 

BTW, telling you to stay out of a nursing home, does not prevent you, if you have legal gardianship of that elderly person, from taking them out. Just like nobody is forcing you to get on that passenger jet. If you have power of attorney that gives you the legal right to move them back home if you wish.  And some people do want to die at home, and that is perfectly acceptable. My late mother couldn't go back to her apartment because of liability issues of the assisted living complex she lived in. She also didn't want to go back because it reminded her of what she couldn't go back to.  

 

Nursing homes telling you to stay out, are looking out for the interests of everyone, not just your loved one and not just the dying. And they do try to accomidate some sort of connection, like a video chat, or allowing the loved one to talk to them through a window. That is also possible to. What they don't want is more people coming in. Staff also has to worry about catching it and possibly taking it home to their own families and or dying themselves, and that has happened. That is bad enough. Hospital and nursing home staff when they say, "Stay out" are NOT trying to cause you emotional pain. They will try to accomidate you if they can, but everyone safety comes first.

 

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 And yes, I do take this

 And yes, I do take this very personally both about my late friend bob, and my late mother when you faslely accuse me of having no emptathy for others.

 

After her last operation, she was on the phiscal thearapy wing of the nursing home in hopes she could go home. She tried for a couple of months but the thearapists said she wasn't going to improve, she wasn't sick at that point, she just lost too much of her mobility to make it possible to go back to the assisted living. I spent at that time 5 to 6 days a week 8 sometimes 14 hours a day with her. When she went to long term care,  I went to 6 days a week. The last weeks of her life, after she decided not to do anyting more, I was there 7 days a week for 14 sometimes 16 hours a day. 

I would have spent that same time with Bob if my late mother had been healthy. 

But again, I know both of them well enough, they would not have wanted me to be in phyisical contact if they were a live today in a nursing home with this pandemic going on. Not because of my wishes, but both of them would be thinking about OTHERS that live with them. If they were alive today, they would heed the advice of the staff and still want me to video chat and or speak to them through a window. What they wouldn't want is others getting sick. And the staff that I personally know and are friends with, would tell you the same thing. 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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 And Beyond, the nurse who

 

And Beyond, the nurse who took care of my late mother, Joanne, agreed with me. If my late mother had been alive today, Joanne would have told me to stay away or talk to her through the window or do a video chat. And I know her, she was a wonderful nurse. She paid special attention to my mother, and she was one of her favorites. Joanne took care of my late mother for almost 7 months. So again, if Joanne had said, "You cant come in, it is too risky". I wouldn't accuse her of fascism. I would simply understand she knows what she is doing, and just like a piolot or flight staff, you listen to them, even when they tell you a harsh truth.

 

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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Brian37 wrote: YOU not me,

Brian37 wrote:

 

YOU not me, YOU brought up my friend, whom I know way better than you. Now you are trying to imply I am a hartless uncaring asshole.

No, until you brought it up I didn't know about it.

 

Quote:

 

NO! Any damned nurse or doctor is going to tell everyone it is not a good idea to be around at risk people. THAT IS NOT ME, those are the medical professionals. Are you implying they don't know what the fuck they are talking about? You'd be willing to risk killing an old person because of your own narrow thinking. It isn't just your loved one living in a nursing home, 50 or even 100 depending nursing home.  Even major hospitals are heavely restricting access of loved ones. Not because they like causing emotional pain, but because they want to reduce the risk of the spread.

I wasn't talking about nursing homes. No person I care for would ever step foot in one, the nursing facilities in the US is a pretty pathetic system that is rather low quality. I have the means to ensure that the people I care about can get private care at home. It is good to have money.

I was talking about people being barred from hospitals, where an acute event is causing death sooner rather than later. If it is a slow process, then go on hospice and you can see the person at home. 

Quote:

Nursing homes are not designed as personal hospices. My late mother was in one.  I know people who work at nursing homes. They hate having to keep people away. I don't like it either.  It is dangerous right now to have countess people being unregulated and untested with no vaccine to be around at risk individuals. NOBODY LIKES that harsh truth, but right now it is a reality that is better to accept. 

Nursing homes have utterly failed to prevent the spread of Covid throughout the system despite rather strict conditions. Visits certainly could be conducted in a safe way, but again, that isn't the situation I was talking about. 

 

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 And fuck you calling me a fascists. I hate dictators. Being told by medical experts doing somehting right now is a bad idea, isn't fascisim.

Being advised by a medical professional and then making a decision is no fascism. Being told what is going to be done and not being given the freedom to decide whether or not you are going to follow that advice is. 

 

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If you stupidly think that is tryanny call the piolot on your next flight a tyrant for putting on the "fasten seatbelt sign." You do know it is illegal to disobey flight staff?  So if nursing home staff are telling you to stay away, they are not out to cause you personal pain. They are simply thinking of the saftey of everyone living there. Just like you should follow the instructions of flight staff in an emergancy.

Yes, and Hitler was only trying to protect everyone from the Jews. Just because someone claims that their goal is to protect you does not justify their use of violent force to enforce their commands, nor does it mean that protecting you is even in their top-ten list of goals. News flash, most elected officials don't give a flying fuck about you and if you die, they won't spend a nanosecond thinking about it. 

 

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Staying away from at risk people, doesn't mean they have to be old or dying. Underlyinng conditions can affect anyone at any age if they have them. You stupidly think all old people in nursing homes are all taking their last breath. Shows your fucking ignorance of nursing homes. 

No, I wasn't discussing random old people in a nursing home. I was speaking specifically of people in their "dying moments" and I was thinking primarily of hospitals. For example, I know personally of a fellow who died of a heart attack after being put in ICU. His family was blocked from seeing him and he died alone. Nobody should die alone if it can be helped. What were they going to do? Give Covid to a dying man? OMG! Government protect him!

 

Me, I will stay away from all people who do not consent to being in the same room as me. So if you want to stay cloistered away, rest easy, I am not going to come barging in your door. Now if you decide to go out to eat, well I might be at the same restaurant, but you have decided to take the same risk I have. People who are terribly "at risk" need to decide for themselves whether living a life out in public is worth the risk. Personally, I have decided not to live in isolated fear. As someone who is "at risk", if that kills me, so be it. If you went to that same restaurant I went to and passed Covid to me and I died, I wouldn't blame you or hold you responsible. I am not, nor am I advocating anyone else, go running into random nursing homes and cough on old people.

I do think that a well ran nursing home could provide a system for people to come visit their loved ones, even if it involved temporary isolation and testing for Covid, but I understand that in this country a nursing home is pretty high-end if they don't kill their own patients on a routine basis and very few are anything approaching "well ran". (Before you start ranting, I'm not blaming the nurses or aides who work 12-16 hour shifts for shit pay, I'm blaming the people who pay shit, don't hire sufficient staff and encourage cheap care over quality care) 

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


Brian37
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 You were not talking about

 

You were not talking about random old people at a nursing home. "Dying moments"  don't happen like a business script, or movie script. In real life people die under all different conditions.

 

You were talkiing about your ability to be with your loved ones as if I didn't get that. I FUCKING DO ASSHOLE.

 

We are NOT on diferent pages. Under normal ideal conditions, I FUCKING AGREE.

 

But we are NOT under normal conditions. 

 

THAT is the part you dont get. Bob and my late mother died under NORMAL conditions, and every human being that died in that time and my mother, and my family did not have to worry about a pandemic at the time. Those who are under similar conditions do have   have to worry about the pandemic.

 

CONTEXT MATTERS. Don't equate hospitsals and nursing homes now as being the same conditions as a year or 4 years or 10 years ago. 

 

 

 

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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Beyond Saving
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 Except we are under normal

 Except we are under normal conditions. Same world, same sun, still a whole bunch of diseases floating around, many of them are killing far more people than Covid. That is normal for Earth. A lot of shit here will kill you. 

The only thing that changed is that we have a fascist for a President who had the right letter after his name. If Obama had tried this, the economy wouldn't have shut down. Protests would have started day one. With Trump leading the charge, the dems are free to go with their natural power grabbing inclinations and declare he didn't go far enough! 

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X