...and Las Vegas is the only area in the state where it is illegal to even drive through town with a gun. Why didn't the murderers obey the gun laws? Don't they know how important they are?

 Another couple used their guns to kill someone recently:

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/husband-and-wife-shoot-gunmen-who-try-to-enter-their/article_29109617-bc56-534...

Husband and wife shoot gunmen who try to enter their St. Louis home, killing 1, police say

A husband and wife armed with guns were able to stave off an apparent home invasion Monday night, police said.  

...

Police say a 17-year-old girl who lived at the home was outside retrieving something from her car when she was approached by two masked and armed men who forced her into her house, using her as a shield.

The teen’s father, 34, saw the men walking up with his daughter, got his firearm and fired several shots at them, striking both of the men as they entered his home. The teen’s mother, 34, also retrieved a gun and fired once at the men but did not hit either, police said.

One of the men, Terrell Johnson, 31, of the 4500 block of Natural Bridge Road, collapsed on the living room floor and was pronounced dead at the scene.

 ...

In such a situation, there's of course the risk the human shield might have been shot instead (Mom fired and missed), but I think it's worth the risk, rather than acquiesce and hope the intruders play nice (if they only wanted to rob, they'd likelier wait until they thought the house was empty).

I already trounced that argument. Let us pretend that volume is the problem, how do you propose to solve it?

Ridiculous. When was the last time you saw a gun advertisement on primetime tv? The gun market doesn't advertise much, demand is consumer driven. Many guns are not even built until they are ordered.

True, yet despite this I have contributed far more to society than you have. How many people have you ever employed? How much have you ever paid in taxes to support society? What have you ever built for anyone? Can you name a single thing you have done for society?

On this issue my side has won the elections. You are the one whining about the laws not being what you want. Do elections only matter when you win? 

You using the word maturity? At least 90% of the people reading this laughed at that line. I will ask again, what is your solution? Since it takes no brains, you  should be able to propose one. You don't even have the maturity to hold a thoughful conversation or even state your own opinion clearly. That I haven't given up on you is pretty strong evidence of my benevolent heart... or my stupidity.

I haven't bitched about anything. The current laws are not my ideal, but they are acceptable enough. And in this issue, the laws have swung a bit my way the last couple decades.(and incidentally, violent crime is approaching all time lows)

 I will move my response to your post in your poetry thread to here, I am traveling and only have my tablet which is a pain in the ass to cut and paste with so will just summarize your quotes. You said ZERO!

Sure, zero murders would be great, but humans "EVOLVED" with the capability to murder. They murdered before guns, and will murder forever no matter what law you pass. Ironic that you accuse me of being "like a theist" and then suggest that a result so contrary to human nature as zero murders is an achievable goal.

You also fail to show how more guns equals more murders. Yes, the US leads the developed world in murders not just with guns, but also knives blunt objects and fists, however, the majority of those are centered in a handful of areas with really high rates (chicago, la, louisiana, texas). The murder rate in most of the country is comparable with the most peaceful areas of Europe. Even areas like mine with a high proportion of gun ownership and high proportion of gun nuts have very low violent crime rates, the last murder in my county was ten years ago and is still big news. Violent crime is a problem in the US, but it is an isolated problem. We fucking know who is murdering and we fucking know why and we fucking know where and we fucking know who the victims are. It isn't a big ass secret that virtually all murders where a stranger kills another stranger is the result of the drug trade, and is in one of a handful of cities. If you avoid buying or selling illegal drugs, the odds of you being murdered are as low as anywhere in Europe. If you avoid getting married and having kids as well, the odds of you getting murdered are virtually nil. Instead of focusing on solving the real issue, the drug trade, you focus on their current tool of choice, guns.

As if strict gun laws have prevented the tens of thousands of people being murdered in Mexico. Have you ever been in Mexico when the Sinaloa come through town randomly shooting people and taking whatever the fuck they want? Have you had one of your friends kidnapped and held for ransom because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time? You would probably piss your pants and shit yourself and wish for someone like me with a gun to come save your sorry ass if you could take a breath between calling for your mommy. 

Yet you sit on your sanctomonius toilet like it is a fucking throne and cast derision at guys like CJ Grisham, a guy who went overseas and risked his fucking ass getting shot at in the name of shitheads like you. You have the fucking audacity to label him coward and racist, simply because he decided to carry his gun in public-breaking absolutely no law- and got arrested anyway, at which point he started "Open Carry Texas" to bring attention to the issue.

You wouldn't have the balls to serve our country half as much as he did. You do absolutely nothing to improve your life yet live comfortable as hell. You have no idea what real poverty is and our soldiers come back from war and have to listen to babies like you whine about their American problems. If I had a dime for every time a brother in the VFW cursed out whiners like you, I'd be as rich as your butt buddy Warren. Get some damn perspective. And you call me selfish? hah. At least when I seek things for myself I am honest about my goals instead of pretending I am interested in some 'greater good'.

And yeah, you want to 'challenge' me to say this to whoever the fuck had a loved one get shot? I'll say the same damn thing, and have. Bad people exist and they will use any tools at their disposal to do bad things. Humans are not perfect, and the price of living among them is that they will use violence to control you. You are no different except you don't have the courage to use violence yourself. Instead, you seek to have the police use violence to stop any little thing you don't like or force people to do what they want. If you want to know why there is so much violence and selfishness in society, look in a fucking mirror.

While you are at it, go learn something about Somalia. Do you think they are better now with a government than they were as an anarchy? The only problem with anarchy is that assholes like you think you know better than everyone and are willing to use violence to impose your governance on everyone else. (Or more accurately in your case, support the people who use violence to seize power so you can pretend your hands are clean.) The only reason anarchy inevitably descends into violence is because ass holes want to establish a government. Unfortunately for Somalia, they didn't have any guns to shoot the authoritarian pricks with so they ended up with two groups of authoritarian assholes fighting for the ability to rule everyone else. Here is a number for you, ZERO, as in zero fucking assholes who think violence is an acceptable tool to use to impose their ideas onto someone else.

/rant

Where have I ever suggested forcing you to do anything? You don't have to do it my way. In fact, I prefer you don't buy a gun. I just want to be able to purchase guns for myself. Don't worry, bullets are expensive and you are nowhere near worth the price. I have shot absolutely every person I want to shoot. The only creatures in danger from me are tasty animals. So which guns do you want to ban, or which people do you want to prevent from having them? Do you even have a position beyond hyperbole and hysteria?

If the market is "flooded", why the fuck do you have to order your gun months in advance because they are backordered? In 2012, Ruger actually stopped accepting orders.... the gunmaker REFUSED to take more orders and sell more guns because they were struggling to manufacture the one million guns that were ordered. 

You have yet to suggest a single solution. All you have done is harp about a "problem" in the vaguest sense. You haven't even specified exactly what the problem is except for hyperbole and lies (eg "guns are pumped out like candy&quot

I do have  solution dipshit. Several in fact.

1. Take the power away from the gun manufactures ability to write their own laws overiding public opinion. Corporate lobbying like any other business.

2. Reduce the ammont made. Nowhere does that say end all gun making.

3. Ban military style riffles and big clips.

4. No internet sales, of either guns or ammo. Nor does that say ban it everywhere.

5. Universal background checks. Including gun shows.

6. Mental evaluations manditory, with training and reviewed just like a drivers license .

7. Higher wages for the middle class and working poor. More economic stability, less crime.

8. Higher taxes on the rich and more investment at home, close tax loopholes.

9. Invesment in mental health care.

10. Invesment in education.

Nowhere in any of that list does it say, "I want government to take away all guns and no one can have any at all".

There crybaby. Now, you can offer some up yourself too, but more of the same won't cut it.

                              Yes, Brian I love guns, I love them more than anything in the whole wide world.

 What is the answer then? How do we reduce violence? Why do other countries take measures to reduce violence, like Australia or Sweden, which then reduces violent acts; however America never seems to get their head out of their ass?

      I also like to imagine myself lying naked on a huge pile of ammuntion while having a sloppy orgy with Ann Coulter, Nancy Reagan and Phyllis Shlafly.

If Michael Moore is to be trusted (which he isn't), Canada is so violence-free that the people keep their doors unlocked, and wait in the foyer to greet any strangers who come in. 

Well said, and the same can be said about any inter-country comparrisons. It is not a secret that violence in the US is predominantly drug related and is centralized in a handful of areas. We have places where the murder rate is well into the double digits and other places where it is just as low as any country on the planet. In the rural US, few people lock their doors and it isn't uncommon for people to leave their keys in their truck when running into the store. When you know everyone in town, crime isn't a  big threat.

It is simple, just do what our friend Beyond Antoinette wants becasue he knows what is best for all of us.

           I live in an abandoned missle silo.   No neighbors to annoy me.

The first and largest step would be to end our "war on drugs". There is a direct and immediate correlation to aggressive enforcement of drug laws and violence. There is a direct and immediate correlation to us having the most people jailed for non-violent crimes and having the highest rate of violent crimes among modernized countries. If it was up to me, I'd say full legalization of everything. Obviously, that isn't going to happen. At the very least, we can stop jailing people just because they have drug addictions. Our prisons create criminals by destroying their lives and leaving them with no realistic options to get back into society. I think we could learn a lot looking at the legal and prison systems of other countries that would be far more practical and relevant than worrying about gun laws, which are ultimately unenforcable because we already have a lot of guns and nothing but the most tyrannical action is going to change that. 

You could really fuck with the doomsday nutturs living around there. Set off a siren and walk drive off your property in a cammie painted  Jeep with cammies on.  Better yet have the top of the silo rigged to raise out of the ground a fake missle head.