why
Posted on: August 12, 2010 - 7:37pm
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why
Why is it that atheist seem to need to disprove god, please enlighten me. My rationale is that you hate the idea of
not controling your own life, that living for a higher power scares you. Thats called ego, Easing God Out thinking
your a drop of water when you are in the middle of the ocean. You wonder why youve never experinced GOD your ego
is in the way, let your barriers down and trust christ, except him in to your life.
Try the book Purpose Driven Life by Rick Warren it's $15, reflect on it for 40 days. If your so sure nothing will happen try it consider it a challange.
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I don't feel a need to disprove your particular deity. However, I don't adhere to an idea or philosophy that lacks evidence, and when people make a habit of pushing those ideas and philosophies in my face I naturally take a stand.
If theists did not proselytize and stick their noses into secular matters I doubt most of us would care. But as a group, you tend to do so, so as a group, we tend to stand up for our own beliefs.
I could alternately criticize you for needing the childish comfort of having an all powerful imaginary friend wrap you in His arms and rock you to sleep at night.
Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.
It is mostly due to the bigotry we encounter. When you tell your average Christian that you are an atheist you are often treated like some sort of leper. Then there are the christians that run around and try to tell us how to live because their little book of fantasies says so. Although most atheists do not try to "disprove" god so much as ask what proof there is of god (you can't disprove a negative). Then we prove that the feeble evidence of god offered by christians is false.
The christian god is particularly irritating because he is quite an evil god and it boggles my mind how people who actually believe in him can worship him. So do you have evidence that your god is anything more real than the tooth fairy? Or are you just trying to sell your book?
If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X
You want me to read it you buy it for me. See I don't have the need to disprove god you have the need to prove God..
You see Atheist are fine going thur life living it, then you come alone with a post like this...
Now you have pushed the Atheist button. So here goes..
I don't need your rationale I have my own. See I was once a christian then I woke up and saw a light that light told me that people should worship me instead. So now I'm the GOD and the only GOD and I have as much prof as you do. Why are you not praising me right now? Oh well it was worth a chance. Now thats EGO and that type of thinking comes from your side of the fense.
Oh and I can't do anything for 40 days, i'm A.D.D.
Throughout human history as our species has faced the frighten terrorizing fact that we do not know who we are and where we are going; it has been the authority (the political, the religious, and the educational authorities) who have attempted to comfort us. By giving us order, rules, and regulation. Informing or forming in our minds their view of reality. To think for yourself you must question these authorities. THINK FOR YOURSELF…
hmmmmm.........more shark food lol
Why would I need to disprove god ?
No offense, but that's not a very rational rationale, is it ? How can I be scared of being controlled by something I don't believe exists ?
Also, in my experience, it's actually quite healthy to be a bit weary of people who want to control your life, especially when they claim
a supernatural being told them to.
So what's the difference between "letting your barriers down" and just being gullible or having a weak moment ?
I never wondered why I never experienced god. I was too busy with real life.
"Give this fella 15 bucks, I dare ya !". Not much of a challenge, is it ? Anyway, I already have a purpose driven life, thanks.
It was only a question, and my thoughts. I,f you didnt want any confrontation why go to atheists VS theists,
why not just converse with those who share the same ideals, instead of an us vs you forum. Sorry about the spelling error in my last post,
spelling was never a strong point of mine. Rick warren has a site with lots of info on it and i will see if i can get you a copy of his book
because you asked, if it was sarcasm I cant tell from your writing, then disregard that and im sorry for the bother.
The Rational Response Squad
A place for activist atheists to unite Where does it say atheist vs. theist in that header? I feel your pain with the spelling thing, however I can read..Throughout human history as our species has faced the frighten terrorizing fact that we do not know who we are and where we are going; it has been the authority (the political, the religious, and the educational authorities) who have attempted to comfort us. By giving us order, rules, and regulation. Informing or forming in our minds their view of reality. To think for yourself you must question these authorities. THINK FOR YOURSELF…
its the name of the forum at top of the screen
Ok, so do you have any evidence that your god exists? I'm still not even really sure what god you believe in.
Or if you want, you can try to prove that the invisible pixies that will bring me my coffee tomorrow don't exist.
Doesn't matter to me.
If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X
If you didn't want the confrontation of atheist vs. theist then why did you post that. You know you are going to get tore up in here with post like that. Talk to other theist on here and they will probably tell you it's not as simple as posting on here "why do you not believe" and expecting us to just conform. We need proof and real proof.
If all the Christians who have called other Christians " not really a Christian " were to vanish, there'd be no Christians left.
Ah, the you must first believe and then you will understand argument. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt. That is the basis of all religions and mind-control organizations.
It is up to Christians to prove there is a god and it is the one they worship. Can you prove there is no Zeus? If you can understand why you reject all other gods, you will understand why I reject yours.
I am a drop of water in the middle of the ocean. I am one person in a world of 7 billion. I am no better or worse than they are.
Why do you think you are the unique drop that has been specially selected and enlightened by "the God"? That is ego.
Religion Kills !!!
Numbers 31:17-18 - Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.
http://jesus-needs-money.blogspot.com/
Not to sound over the hill like how parents say when i was your age, or condescending with the subject.
I was brought up catholic, never understood it much i didn't no what to believe no one could explain. I made fun of the religious some rightfully so.
my aim is not make my self feel good or better then any one else if anything before i had no compassion for any one i was a thief a blasphemer a liar an
adulterer a murderer i was part in an abortion i hated the world and mocked god i have bad depression extreme anger issues and a porn addiction
and whether you believe or not whether i can even explain to anyone or not surrendering to Christ has saved me I'm not just saying because of forgiveness
but he gave me the strength to overcome these. I'm no longer even tempted by these sins because they hold no power because of my faith in Jesus sacrifice. Not long ago i was miserable as god of my own life ,now i am content in service of the lord.
If you had told me that one year ago i would of laughed and called my self a liar. Seeing this site made me sad that this is what is being taught.
I make no profit from converting you, I'm not out to sell you anything, i have no agenda of my own .
I try not to judge, if i argue that's my sin full self, i wish only to represent my faith, because i enjoy it so if you think i have wronged you tell me because I'm sick of people miss representing my faith and i don't want to be one of those people.
My ego has been surrendered to christ. I am not any more worthy of salvation then any one else. I am a siner among sinners.
Jesus asks all his children to follow in his foot steps, though every man is limited in his heart concerning mans generosity.
The drop in the sea concerns a life without god, god being the sea you the drop.
sorry Im new to this and expected a difrent reaction.
Like what?
As you may know from history, religions in general were originally intended to keep aggressive individuals and groups in peace through intimidation, and by these means to control political power. In many certain circumstances this still applies directly to some people who would be unruled murderers. When modern psychiatric help is not available, religion may be a good alternative. I just don't get it why there are not enough doctors in the U.S.
I don't hate the world. I never have. I was stupid when I was younger and I did some pretty stupid things. I grew out of it. I didn't need to believe in god/s/dess or Jesus or anyone else. I didn't pray about it. I just grew up. Some people don't grow up by themselves and they need an assist. Don't beat yourself up about it.
Why on earth you thought we would all be like your younger self ----- We are all individuals, we all have different life stories as to why we are atheists. We have all had various people preach at us over the years and we are all still atheists - excepting the regular theists on the forum of course. Sorry, guys, not meaning to lump you in with the rest.
The abortion? Do I understand you to say you assisted someone to have one? Money, transportation..... You didn't actually perform the abortion yourself? Push her down the stairs, kick her in the stomach...... Being female, I can have an abortion and I did when I was 21. I am not depressed about it, not unhappy. I think I was an idiot for putting myself in that position. And yes, I'm a murderer. But I forgave myself and got on with my life. Given the exact same circumstances, I'd do it again. But now, 38 years later, I would probably join your church instead as my getting pregnant would be a proof positive miracle.
Get up, showered, dressed, fed, put one foot in front of the other. Forgive yourself. Make restitution if that helps. Get on with your life.
-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.
"We are entitled to our own opinions. We're not entitled to our own facts"- Al Franken
"If death isn't sweet oblivion, I will be severely disappointed" - Ruth M.
As a concept and a claim yea, that does scare the shit out of me. Much like the Silence of the Lambs movies and Terminator series scared the shit of me. Lots of claims and stories are very frightening. But that is only in a metaphorical sense that the god of Abraham scares me, not in a literal sense. Just like Hannibal Lector doesn't literally scare me, but most metphorically as a character, does.
You allow your mind to be controlled by concepts of fear and punishment. Healthy relationships are not based on absolute authority, but mutual cooperation and give and take and consent, and are entered and exited freely.
The god character of all 3 Abrahamic traditions is not a nice guy to those who don't follow him. His character reads much like an abusive husband when the wife says she wants to leave him and then he stalks her and threatens her and kills her for leaving him.
What does scare me in reality is what humans of all these religions do in the name of these works of fiction. The Dark Ages, The Inquisitions, The witch hunts. The Holocaust(germans were Christians, not atheists) 9/11, Timothy McVieh, Eric Rudolph. To name a few.
So if you want a reason as to why "seem" to need to "disprove" god. This would be a moral reason, but not the best reason. That only addresses the absurdity of claiming that god is "all loving". I loved my x-wife, but I would have been a monster if I had stalked her or beat her for leaving me.
The best reason to reject ANY god claim is mundanely simple. EVIDENCE.
There is no evidence of a disembodied brain with magical super powers, by any name, past or present, polytheist or monotheist. Your god claim has as much evidence for it as any other human and their pet god claim.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
Tell you what Timmy. Go get a copy of Eric Hoffer's book The True Believer It is a small book, published in 1951 and in and out of print since then. You should be able to get a used copy pretty cheap. Read it, meditate on it and what it says about your faith for 40 days. Read it again (not hard, it really is a small book) and see if it does not change your life.
Ok, who made the page wide?
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Some who have been brought up religious, especially harsh homes, rebel. Hurt people hurt people. I have seen great anger come out of such homes. I came from such a home but I went the other way as many do and became the "perfect" child. I didn't rebel and even became a minister, but had very passive aggressive behavior. You wouldn't say it broke any commandments but you could certainly feel it. I was sensitive and really hated the abuse that was done to me and did my best to not inflict it on others. So, after a few decades of giving myself to Christianity, I finally separated from it and spent years of carrying that guilt and shame. It influenced my relationships with people, but I could still say I was an upright person and had strong feelings against stealing, being unfaithful, hurting others and honored them.
I felt so much shame from religion that I was the worst of sinners that I fear being around people because I might cause them to sin and they would lose their eternal soul. My church believed we had the burden to preach the gospel. How could I face Jesus in the end without doing everything to save as many souls as possible? How could I go to heaven and be told that one soul I could have saved I choose not to talk to that day? Now I see them burning in hell because of me. (There is a profit in converting others, you know that, a star in your crown). What kind of God is this? To sit there waiting for me to act or me to pray for someone else they will perish? It is bunk. I saw that shame was not there when I came through the birth cannel. It was added later in life. We are all born atheist. We don't know the name of Jesus til taught.
I ultimately went to therapy and went through my past and discovered the reasons for my passive aggressive behavior and mental abuse that I was doing to myself. I am now a happy non-believer and my moral compass has experienced no change. Throwing off the shackles of religion really improved my relationship with others and I enjoy my life now where before it truly was depressing. Accepting myself as a good person and not this awful sinner was very empowering to me. It didn't make me any worse or any better than everyone else, which religion is constantly tempting you with. (Ying/Yang)
So you grew up through a different path and needed religion to straighten you out. (My cousin needed the Navy). I went a different route than you and have found contentment in life without religion.
Do you have concern with that or does your God?
Religion Kills !!!
Numbers 31:17-18 - Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.
http://jesus-needs-money.blogspot.com/
God did it, he's mad because we are messing with one of his fans.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
yeah. It really is bugging me, like not knowing the acronyms like OP and POE.
Religion Kills !!!
Numbers 31:17-18 - Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.
http://jesus-needs-money.blogspot.com/
I'm not going to attack you, even though you have stepped on my toes with the murderer/abortion statement. My daughter just made the painful decision on May 27th to end her pregnancy. Now I can tell you, it hurt to sign the papers for that and even though I'm only 32 I was actually looking foward to her having this grandchild. I do not feel that my daughter or myself are murderers. Everyone gets in situations that they have to make sacrifices. She was so not ready for a baby and with the fact that I am a mom to a 6 year old with special needs I couldn't take on another child to raise. Also with what my son has there was a chance my daughter could have been a carrier for the gene which cause the syndrome my son has. It's nothing a 17 year old could possibly handle I'll say that much. I understand she was ultimately resoncible for her actions which led to this pregnancy but she also couldn't bear the thought of handing her child over to someone else to raise. She wouldn't have and she would have ended up keeping the baby and dealing with the abusive father of the child throughout the pregnancy.
What I want to say is this. If it is considered murder then why was it ok for this god character to kill children in the bible who had already been born? I never understand how christians live with theirselves when they oppose stem cell research that could help so many people such as myself as a diabetic when these things are plainly stated in the bible. People like me have been given a death sentence if you will because that idiot of a human being George Bush simply didn't like the idea of research on fetuses that were going to be aborted anyway. You may think I'm a horrible person but I don't see the problem with allowing that especially for rape victims. Most of them want to run to the nearest abortion clinic (as would I) and get it taken care of. So why not give these women the option of signing a piece of paper consenting to research before hand. If it isn't forced and they do it willingly then what's the prob?
The statement "murderer" I think is a little harsh. I think there are lots of instances where some women probably should have gotten an abortion instead of trying to raise a child they don't want. Lots of these children we hear about in the news being stuffed in trash bags and buried under their mothers porch 2 years ago. Or the flip side of the coin where the child is placed in foster care with one of these psycho foster parents who get thrills out of raping, beating starving and eventually ending the life of a child that never even had a chance. I believe in some cases maybe the child is better off than being brought into such a cruel world. This is only my opinion. I'm not for abortion by any means. I just believe in choices. I also believe only people who are ready for children or know they are going to do right by that child should have one.
If all the Christians who have called other Christians " not really a Christian " were to vanish, there'd be no Christians left.
if you read my other post, im pro choice. my wife went through the rape abortion. no one even beleived her about it except me the cops ignored it so did her parents we chose to have one and even if that was now we as followers of Christ cant go through that again im sorry and i want you to know i think no less of any one put through that
Thou shalt not kill, which is better translated to murder. Murder is a crime of passion and hatred toward a person. There are no such feelings of passion or hatred against a fetus. The fetus is unknown. Abortion is a most difficult decision best left to the individuals involved.
Abortion has been known to be around a thousand years or so before Christ. It was practiced in the Roman empire during the life of Jesus & Paul. Yet they remained silent on the subject. I am humored that Paul in Corinthians didn't espouse on abortion but women's hair length.
God himself, his followers in the bible and throughout church history have killed/murdered many people, destroying entire towns and of course killing pregnant women. The flood of Noah & destruction of Sodom & Gemmorah would have killed more than a few. God has no regard for fetuses if you use the Bible as your source of morality.
Religion Kills !!!
Numbers 31:17-18 - Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.
http://jesus-needs-money.blogspot.com/
So the rapist got off scot free?
Glad you & your wife had the abortion. That bastard's genes should not be passed forward.
Sexual abusers are repeat offenders.
Makes me want to believe in a God that will punish the bastard. Dang. That's how religions get started.
Religion Kills !!!
Numbers 31:17-18 - Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.
http://jesus-needs-money.blogspot.com/
I don't need to disprove God. I simply haven't been presented with enough evidence to be convinced that he does exist. Convince me.
My rationale is that there is not enough evidence. Show me evidence.
I don't wonder. It's because there is no God.
Sorry, I already read it. It sucks.
Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare
I have to ask the question: So are you a democrate or a republican?
If you are prochoice it would seem to me that you would surely be a democrate, however the way you marched on here with that "how can you not believe" I had you for a right winger.. So what is it?
I will say that I am sorry about your wife. I may come accross harse on the christians but no one deserves that. I think that being a christian and a prochoicer is a bit of a controdiction, but I will not cast stones on that one.
Now I would invite you to post and comment on anything I say on here, but please keep an open mind. THIS IS ONE OF THE ONLY PLACES ATHEIST HAVE. Please don't try to preach to us, and we will stay out of your churches!!!
Throughout human history as our species has faced the frighten terrorizing fact that we do not know who we are and where we are going; it has been the authority (the political, the religious, and the educational authorities) who have attempted to comfort us. By giving us order, rules, and regulation. Informing or forming in our minds their view of reality. To think for yourself you must question these authorities. THINK FOR YOURSELF…
False choice there jimmy. I am neither a democrat nor a republican and am pro-choice. True, none of my candidates ever win elections.
Timothy-
Alright, so you hit rock bottom, looked around one day and found out your life really sucked. So you are looking for a way to improve your life and somehow found god. Now it sounds like your life is a little straightened out and you believe it is a lot better. Now let me ask you this, is your life better because god reached down and actually changed it? Or did your belief that there is a god give you the strength/motivation to change it yourself? When you decided not to steal again was it because god stopped you? Or did you make the decision to stop yourself?
In the medical science it is called the placebo effect where they give people fake pills and see some improvement in symptoms. But at the end of the day, a placebo doesn't replace meds. And god does not replace reality. Have some more self confidence. God didn't come down here and straighten out your life. You straightened it out yourself. You made the decision to change. God already claims to have created the world, he certainly doesn't need you to give him credit for your hard work.
If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X
Most don't, what they need or ask for is evidence for god, so far none have been properly presented, well no real evidence that could not be used to prove any of various other gods really. That and it's a position that we take in a debate forum, you know where someone presents a side and another person or group of people present their views and then they debate on various topics, one of course is the whole evidence or lack of evidence or the misrepresentation of evidence for/against god.
That could be said about the believers that they don't want to be held responsible for their actions, that its not their fault they are sinners, they are designed that way, that it's adam and eve's fault, or of course the default one, it's the devils fault. In the end it is ludicrous to believe that atheists do not want to be or are not held responsible to their actions, we actually are, since we all live in a society that has laws, and should we break theses laws, well atheists don't really have much recourse but to blame themselves, some might blame society, but in the end we are responsible for our actions, where I have heard enough believers state that it wasn't their fault, it must have been the devil. As well are all in control of our lives to a point, there are outside influences like other individual people, society, nature and of course chance.
hey you don't believe in various other gods, have your read their holy books? Krishna, Shiva, Vishnu or Brahma? Why not follow those deities? Their holy books and evidence have the exact amount of evidence as your so called god/deity has, and probably the reason you don't follow them are for the exact same reasons you mentioned, you harden your heart to them and call them false gods, because your ego is too big and think that this one god died for you (oxymoron since he was resurrected and went to heaven, so technically he didn't die) Lets admit the first thing here, it's all bullshit in the end.
I was refering to our new friend Tim, I would never presume that someone "beyond saving" would be a republican, However if you had to pick the lesser of the two evils. Then I feel "most" Atheist would pick Democrates
Throughout human history as our species has faced the frighten terrorizing fact that we do not know who we are and where we are going; it has been the authority (the political, the religious, and the educational authorities) who have attempted to comfort us. By giving us order, rules, and regulation. Informing or forming in our minds their view of reality. To think for yourself you must question these authorities. THINK FOR YOURSELF…
It was post #7. A bad cut and paste job most likely considering that the problem was a long string of nonbreaking spaces.
=
Like it or not it is time to GROW UP!!! This surrender you speak of is exactly what muslims call ISLAM, surrendering to the will of allah. Your not muslim, or are you? Combine that misdirected attitude with your self depricating opinion of being unworthy of salvation, {save you from what?} and being a sinner among sinners are clear signs of clinical depression. You need professional help for this;
Your adherence to Rick Warren shows clear signs of being brainwashed. Warren and his ilk thrive on this mental state. Warren is a plageristic fraud; there is nothing in his writings that can not find in hundreds of other "feel good" books, his ghost writers simply re edit other works enough to avoid lawsuits. You've been HAD!!!!
"Very funny Scotty; now beam down our clothes."
VEGETARIAN: Ancient Hindu word for "lousy hunter"
If man was formed from dirt, why is there still dirt?
the reason I'm pro choice is god made us out of love, and gave us choice whether to love him or not, to abide in his laws or to live our own life. the angels know only love and service we get to choose from free will. that's my belief, and man has no place taking that choice, our right.
God is love=You can murder a baby?
I'm confused.
Or do you think a baby doesn't have a soul yet?
Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.
Okay Timmy. Once again.
You are pro choice - yay, so am I. God did not make you out of love, mud or vanilla ice cream because god does not exist. Ergo, you were not made - except in the boring old way of your parents having sex. God did not give you free will. If free will even exists (jury is still out) it comes from within you. Stand up and take some credit for your own decisions. Angels don't exist either. Just more imaginary friends come to play. You belief/faith is not a defense for your actions. Stand up on your own hind legs and take responsibility for you own life and quit with the god bothering.
Sigh. It is like kicking a puppy. Does no good and the puppy doesn't understand why it is getting kicked.
Yyaa, wait a minute Timmy. Are you saying you are pro choice because it comes with the territory of free will, and because god gave us free will you are for the fact we have choices to do things, even though you don't agree with those things? So in that way are you "pro murder", or "pro peeing on someones car" because god gave everyone the right to choose to do such things. How does this work for you?
Please elaborate...