the good news

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the good news

sorry for being out for so long , i was working on my hardwood floor and it too longer than i expected, however i came to deliver the good news , jesus chrst has risen and that whoever believes in him wont die but have eternal life (john 3:16) hope that helps.. pat


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Good news & bad news

Actually, the good news is that no such small-minded god exists as described in 3:16.  The bad news is that there are millions of human lemmings who actually believe in such a petty being.  Not naming any names. 

More good news:  You have a brain and you can use it.  The bad news:  You're not, except perhaps when you're concerned about hardwood floors.  Simply vomiting bible passages -- whether the 10 commandments or 3:16 -- or providing links to other sites with minimal commentary of your own demonstrates that you are under-utilizing your own thinking faculties.  As long as this sorrowful condition persists, one cannot regard you as a useful participant in the debate.

There are no theists on operating tables.

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WTF??

Really he did, and CNN or Fox News isn't cover this shit? I mean this is some MAJOR news, where was he seen? was it in the middle east? What does he look like? Is it similar to all those catholic interpretations? Or is he a bit darker and less whitey looking? what cave did he crawl out of or did he as come down from the heavens (where is the heavens really since we all there is no heaven beyond our atmosphere?) or was he born recently? If so was she a virgin as per the christian term (no sex) or the jewish term (young woman)? All these questions.....I wonder how much full of crap you really are today?


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Only a Christian could call

Only a Christian could call it "good news" that God JUST MIGHT decide not to torture you forever if you happen to pick the correct interpretation of Christianity.

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Sorry God Created Everything so i dont need saviour or God

pm9347 wrote:

sorry for being out for so long , i was working on my hardwood floor and it too longer than i expected, however i came to deliver the good news , jesus chrst has risen and that whoever believes in him wont die but have eternal life (john 3:16) hope that helps.. pat

God created all things so he know in creation of the world sin was part of this. he then gets mad at his mistake which he claims he cant make. opps he sends evil spirit to torment saul. which leads saul to attempt to kill david 2 times. he hardens pharoh's heart then send plauges. this he doesnt know an evil serpent would be in this garden?  and Judas has to be incarnated with satan to betray jesus good one! so tell god he not exist and if he does he does not understand good and evil!! my freind save yourself from being destroyed by this bible which people use to control the world and have a bunch of mindless idiots that don't read the bible but listen to regilous pastor!

 

LegendKiller_Justin

The Legend will never die if people propagate the lie  as truth!

The Legend will Die when the Truth Comes Out and Lies Can't HIDE. SO SORRY MY FREIND GOD(IMAGINATION) Doesn't need me or others to keep it because GOD don't  get to many things!

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pm9347 wrote:sorry for being

pm9347 wrote:

sorry for being out for so long , i was working on my hardwood floor and it too longer than i expected, however i came to deliver the good news , jesus chrst has risen and that whoever believes in him wont die but have eternal life (john 3:16) hope that helps.. pat

Perhaps you've been working too hard on your floor, it appears you are suffering from heatstroke.

People who think there is something they refer to as god don't ask enough questions.


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Old news

pm9347 wrote:

sorry for being out for so long , i was working on my hardwood floor and it too longer than i expected, however i came to deliver the good news , jesus chrst has risen and that whoever believes in him wont die but have eternal life (john 3:16) hope that helps.. pat

Your news is but a legend and a poor one at that.

Better news: Have you heard Jesse Helms died?

____________________________________________________________
"I guess it's time to ask if you live under high voltage power transmission lines which have been shown to cause stimulation of the fantasy centers of the brain due to electromagnetic waves?" - Me

"God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, - it says so right here on the label. If you have a mind capable of believing all three of these divine attributes simultaneously, I have a wonderful bargain for you. No checks please. Cash and in small bills." - Robert A Heinlein.


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Thanks! I'd never heard that

Thanks! I'd never heard that before.I must go practise my new found religion now.


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priest off spray for your kids

pm9347 wrote:

sorry for being out for so long , i was working on my hardwood floor and it too longer than i expected, however i came to deliver the good news , jesus chrst has risen and that whoever believes in him wont die but have eternal life (john 3:16) hope that helps.. pat

i hope you take this product endorment seriosly too us atheists want to protect your kids

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=veoQFiaz-zI

mohammed is mr poopy pants allah is a cootie queen and islam is a lint licker
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pm9347 wrote: jesus chrst

pm9347 wrote:
 jesus chrst has risen and that whoever believes in him wont die but have eternal life (john 3:16) hope that helps.. pat

Funny, there was a Jamaican lady dressed all in black walking around my mother's neighbourhood streets shouting something like that out this morning. Only she had a cool Jamaican accent to go with her crazy.

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Quote:hope that helps.It

Quote:

hope that helps.

It helped me laugh.

"Physical reality” isn’t some arbitrary demarcation. It is defined in terms of what we can systematically investigate, directly or not, by means of our senses. It is preposterous to assert that the process of systematic scientific reasoning arbitrarily excludes “non-physical explanations” because the very notion of “non-physical explanation” is contradictory.

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Yes, preaching and quoting

Yes, preaching and quoting the Bible thinking it will convert any of us is an epic fail.


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deludedgod wrote:Quote:hope

deludedgod wrote:

Quote:

hope that helps.

It helped me laugh.

Well that's something.


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jesus christ

well i delivered the good news , so now thats over with i would like to debate more on jesus christ , can anybody tell me why they think he  didnt walk on earth , and why he isnt god??


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Lack of evidence - check out

Lack of evidence - check out the Jesus Mythicist forum.


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pm9347 wrote:well i

pm9347 wrote:

well i delivered the good news , so now thats over with i would like to debate more on jesus christ , can anybody tell me why they think he  didnt walk on earth , and why he isnt god??

Why don't you start be giving the evidence, then you'll see why we don't believe.

Psalm 14:1 "the fool hath said in his heart there is a God"-From a 1763 misprinted edition of the bible

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ok...

The persona that you call Jesus  Christ is a compilation of several "Prophets" from the middle eastern region. Therefore he wasn't a real person and compilations only exist in "mythology" they don't walk. "why he isn't god??" um he never existed... simple enough for you.

bodhi


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what's in a name

by the way the actual person attributed with all those events was "Yeshua" ... well according to "scholars".

bodhi


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because he not real you have no evidence to prove he exists!

pm9347 wrote:

well i delivered the good news , so now thats over with i would like to debate more on jesus christ , can anybody tell me why they think he  didnt walk on earth , and why he isnt god??

Lets start with the bible. The son of god(same God that created everything. yet convinces a lot he did not create sin) that did not come to destroy the law(Matthew 10 i think). This God is a God of Love but uses fear to have people worship him. He claims he is God

so why does god need to come in flesh?

 

again He claims he can't lie or sin but needs he he is all powerful?

 

he can't do evil but he can send an evil spirit from himself to torment saul?

 

why did God create sin again and what glory  of sin?

 

how do you get saved by faith in belief or God only one that save? and if it is Belief what about how you you are suppose to live and what are the most important?

 

why should i fear or worship this God what makes this God so worthy of worship for not make up  his mind on whats right or wrong?

 

 

Legend Killer Justin

 

why do i need God??

 

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Does it make sense that God

Does it make sense that God sacraficed himself to himself in order to not punish people for violationg a rule he made up himself?

 

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MattShizzle wrote:Yes,

MattShizzle wrote:

Yes, preaching and quoting the Bible thinking it will convert any of us is an epic fail.

And unless I'm mistaken it's also against the rules.

pm9347 wrote:

well i delivered the good news , so now thats over with i would like to debate more on jesus christ , can anybody tell me why they think he  didnt walk on earth , and why he isnt god??

So you're finished with your drive-by proselytizing now?

It's actually much simpler to prove something does exist than to prove something doesn't, so instead how about you give us the contemporary extra-biblical evidence for why he did walk on earth in this realm of existence that we live in, and that he is god rather than Yahweh, Vishnu, Krishna, Baal etc.  Any proselytizing will be taken as an admittance of defeat.

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pm9347 wrote:well i

pm9347 wrote:

well i delivered the good news , so now thats over with i would like to debate more on jesus christ , can anybody tell me why they think he  didnt walk on earth , and why he isnt god??

1-As the legend of Jesus is even more poorly documented than for instance Robin Hood I have no clue whether he was real or not. If Jesus was real he deluded himself into believing he was the promised messiah which was clearly not an unusual event in 1st century Judea.

See claimed messiahs in 1st century:

http://www.conncoll.edu/academics/departments/relstudies/290/judaism/failedmessiahs.html

Or:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Messiah_claimants

Google failed Messiahs for much more.

2-Jesus did not meet the requirements of the expected Jewish Messiah for one. Jesus is shown as a non-omniscient sociopath and a desert prophet from his temper tantrums, lack of knowledge, and bigotry. See Mark 11:12-13 for childish behavior and his demonstration of ignorance. See Matthew 15 for racism. Jesus quotes the Sci-Fi book of Daniel which is clearly wrong on countless points. If Jesus accepts Daniel as real I need nothing else for evidence that he was a deluded man and not any god.

There is far more, but you seem to want to play preach and run PM9347, apparently you know how to toss out comments and little more.

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"God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, - it says so right here on the label. If you have a mind capable of believing all three of these divine attributes simultaneously, I have a wonderful bargain for you. No checks please. Cash and in small bills." - Robert A Heinlein.


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pm9347 wrote:jesus chrst has

pm9347 wrote:
jesus chrst has risen and that whoever believes in him wont die but have eternal life (john 3:16) hope that helps.. pat
I know quite a few who believe in good ole JC, yet somehow the human mortality rate seems to remain a steady 100%....??

Quote:
sorry for being out for so long , i was working on my hardwood floor and it too longer than i expected
Home improvement projects often do take a little longer than expected.  Congrats on getting it done.

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good news

i cant believe you all dont believe?? look at the situation today all around you. beginning with the olivet discourse. jesus tells his discipiles ?? (bad spelling) the signs of his return

1. wars and rumors of wars : yep we certanily have had those

2. unusual weather patterns : hmmm yep we have had those its been a bad year

3 false prophets : i think we can all agree there are wackos out there

4 leading up until the world seeks to punish christians ,  probably in part thanks to you

 

as for extra biblical wrtings of jesus , look at josephus , if he was crazy was irrelavant , he still mentioned him

and thanks for the congrats on the floor , it probably wouldnt have taken so long if i knew what i was doing. i dont seem to be good with power tools .


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pm9347 wrote:discipiles ??

pm9347 wrote:

discipiles ?? (bad spelling)

Yes. But I like your spelling of disciples better.

 

pm9347 wrote:

1. wars and rumors of wars : yep we certanily have had those

Wars are nothing new, sadly.

 

pm9347 wrote:

2. unusual weather patterns : hmmm yep we have had those its been a bad year

It's been a bad several years. And guess who's to blame? Hint: Us.

 

pm9347 wrote:

3 false prophets : i think we can all agree there are wackos out there

And what do most of those false prophets claim to be? Christian. You and your Christian friends should consider exercising a little enforcement over these idiots so they stop screwing things up for you as well as the rest of us.

 

pm9347 wrote:

4 leading up until the world seeks to punish christians ,  probably in part thanks to you

Oh yes, sing me that lament of Christians being punished. The only punishment you bring on yourself is the imaginary variety.

Nobody I know was brainwashed into being an atheist.

Why Believe?


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1. wars and rumors of wars :

1. wars and rumors of wars : yep we certanily have had those

Which has happened for thousands of years, some years more intense than others.

2. unusual weather patterns : hmmm yep we have had those its been a bad year

Which has happened for thousands of years, some years more intense than others.

3 false prophets : i think we can all agree there are wackos out there

Wackos have been around for thousands of years. This there never seems to be a short supply of.

How about famine, non weather related natural disasters, or disease?

4 leading up until the world seeks to punish christians ,  probably in part thanks to you

Are you maybe confusing the questioning of Christianity as punishing them? I'm pretty sure the Christians getting thrown to the lions by the Romans had a much more legitimate concern about being punished than what is going on in todays world.

 

 

 


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pm9347 wrote:i cant believe

pm9347 wrote:

i cant believe you all dont believe?? look at the situation today all around you. beginning with the olivet discourse. jesus tells his discipiles ?? (bad spelling) the signs of his return

1. wars and rumors of wars : yep we certanily have had those

2. unusual weather patterns : hmmm yep we have had those its been a bad year

3 false prophets : i think we can all agree there are wackos out there

4 leading up until the world seeks to punish christians ,  probably in part thanks to you

 

as for extra biblical wrtings of jesus , look at josephus , if he was crazy was irrelavant , he still mentioned him

and thanks for the congrats on the floor , it probably wouldnt have taken so long if i knew what i was doing. i dont seem to be good with power tools .

1- Wars have always been. There may actually be places today where there are no wars right now. That's unusual.

2-You have analyzed millions of years of weather data and have proof that our current situation is unusual. Please share your data with NOAA.

3-All prophets are false including all those you accept. If Isaiah, Ezekiel, Jeremiah, and Daniel can't predict reliably things that actually occur they must be false prophets.

A few examples: Josiah was executed 3 years after Isaiah claimed he would live 15 more years. Isaiah claimed Sennacherib would die for his actions though he lived another 20 years. Ezekiel and Jeremiah both predicted Babylon would conquer Egypt, it never happens. Ezekiel claimed Tyre would fall to Nebuchadnezzar, it doesn't. Not to be outdone, Jeremiah claims Babylon would be destroyed to the point where it would be desolate forever. The Persians however are welcomed with little destruction. Daniel has no idea who is king of Babylon and what king of Persia conquered it. That's just for starters. There's far more.

4-Punish Christians for what? Stupidity? Why, you already suffer enough for that delusion. We are really trying to help you here.

5-Josephus is not proof of Jesus. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus_on_Jesus

Pay attention to the section on Origen, "

Origen

The Christian author Origen wrote around the year 240. His writings predate both the earliest known manuscripts of the Testimonium and the earliest quotations of the Testimonium by other writers. In his surviving works Origen fails to mention the Testimonium Flavianum, even though he was clearly familiar with the Antiquities of the Jews, since he mentions the less significant reference by Josephus to Jesus as brother of James, which occurs later in Antiquities of the Jews (xx.9), and also other passages from Antiquities such as the passage about John the Baptist which occurs in the same chapter (xviii) as the Testimonium.[4] Furthermore, Origen states that Josephus was "not believing in Jesus as the Christ" [5] "he did not accept Jesus as Christ" [6], but the Testimonium declares Jesus to be Christ. Because of these arguments, some scholars believe that the version of Antiquities available to Origen did not mention Jesus at this point at all."

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"God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, - it says so right here on the label. If you have a mind capable of believing all three of these divine attributes simultaneously, I have a wonderful bargain for you. No checks please. Cash and in small bills." - Robert A Heinlein.


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Projection in Progress

pm9347 wrote:

well i delivered the good news , so now thats over with...

If you consider it sufficient to simply quote a passage from a book to support your claim, I can just as sufficiently debunk your claim with my own literary citation:

"Gott ist tot"

--Also Sprach Zarathustra, Kapitel II

pm9347 wrote:
i would like to debate more on jesus christ , can anybody tell me why they think he  didnt walk on earth , and why he isnt god??

There's an entire forum already devoted to this.  Enjoy.

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pm9347 wrote:sorry for being

pm9347 wrote:

sorry for being out for so long , i was working on my hardwood floor and it too longer than i expected, however i came to deliver the good news , jesus chrst has risen and that whoever believes in him wont die but have eternal life (john 3:16) hope that helps.. pat

No, it doesn't. Did you varathane the floors with the windows closed?  Paul did not mention jeebus in his writings and the acts are out of sync with the stories Paul wrote.  No other contemporary writings (christian apologists don't count) exist that I'm aware of. 

But, good news! Recent evidence indicates that the real messiah could well have been some clown named Simon. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

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bodhi smith wrote:by the way

bodhi smith wrote:

by the way the actual person attributed with all those events was "Yeshua" ... well according to "scholars".

Indeedy. In addition, he wouldn't have been called 'Christ' since 'Christos' was first applied to him by Saul of Tarsus. So you're looking for a Yeshua, or Joshua, ben Joseph, with a brother named James/Jacob and another named Judas/Judah/Jude. Royal names... heroic names, all three, and very popular in Judea.

Thus, the fellow you need to demonstrate the existence of, pm9347, also has to be shown to be the right Yeshua of Galilee.

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pm9347 wrote:i cant believe

pm9347 wrote:

i cant believe you all dont believe?? look at the situation today all around you. beginning with the olivet discourse. jesus tells his discipiles ?? (bad spelling) the signs of his return

He also tells them that it'll happen during the lifetimes of "some of those now in their mothers' wombs". Which means some 1900 years ago.

Quote:
1. wars and rumors of wars : yep we certanily have had those

Yes, we have. We've had them for 2000 years solid, in fact. This, with the relative lack of organized violence between cultures throughout North America, much of Central and South America, most of Europe and immense tracts of Asia, is actually one of the most peaceful eras in human history. The difference is, really, that telecommunications makes it a lot easier for us to hear about the wars.

Quote:
2. unusual weather patterns : hmmm yep we have had those its been a bad year

We've been altering the weather patterns since we first developed agriculture. Human-influenced Global Warming has its initial startup then, when we began clearing large tracts of woodland, planting crops, and keeping livestock. Population density begins to increase then, requiring more of the same, and a larger footprint. Not coincidentally, as more people begin to survive on carbohydrates instead of proteins (foraged nuts and eggs, fish, hunted game being replaced by grains, cereals, and bread), we begin to be less healthy. Agriculture, often hailed as a great boon to Man, doesn't actually help us live better, it only helps more of us live denser, which suits the needs of the rulers (who, it should be noted, continue to live on a larger amount of protein than their subjects. Only the extremely recent adaptation of peanut-based food into hunger-relief aids has altered this trend.)

Quote:
3 false prophets : i think we can all agree there are wackos out there

And have been, for as long as Man as existed. Prove to me you've got a True prophet before I trust you as to which are false.

Quote:
4 leading up until the world seeks to punish christians ,  probably in part thanks to you

Lemme ask you something, just totally straight here: If the 'world' were to decide to punish Christians, which do you think would be more of a cause of that:

A)an extremely small number of openly atheistic individuals in one of the few societies where they can safely bitch?

or

B)A man claiming to have been put into power because 'God wants me to be President', who declares a new 'Crusade', and who invades a central, and for decades comparatively stable country in one of the least stable regions in the world, challenging those he labels as enemies to 'bring it on'?

Quote:
as for extra biblical wrtings of jesus , look at josephus , if he was crazy was irrelavant , he still mentioned him

Eh, Josephus has been debunked a dozen times over, at least.

Quote:
and thanks for the congrats on the floor , it probably wouldnt have taken so long if i knew what i was doing. i dont seem to be good with power tools .

Lemme just add my congratulations there, too. Eye-wink And congratulations on the safe operation of power tools! Can you imagine trying to do it with only hand tools? Yikes!

"You've got to remember that these are just simple farmers. These are people of the land. The common clay of the new West. You know... morons." - The Waco Kid


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pm9347 wrote:i cant believe

pm9347 wrote:
i cant believe you all dont believe?? look at the situation today all around you. beginning with the olivet discourse. jesus tells his discipiles ?? (bad spelling) the signs of his return

1. wars and rumors of wars : yep we certanily have had those

2. unusual weather patterns : hmmm yep we have had those its been a bad year

3 false prophets : i think we can all agree there are wackos out there

4 leading up until the world seeks to punish christians ,  probably in part thanks to you

Weren't all those things supposed to happen within the lifetime of the desciples?  You do also realise that in 2000 years there hasn't been a single generation that honestly thought those signs were happening at their time.  They were all wrong, what is it that makes you right?  There has always been wars and rumours of wars, there's almost always odd weather patterns somewhere, there's always false prophets, and christians have always claimed to be a descriminated against minority even when they're a clear majority descriminating wildly against others.  In other words, you still haven't said anything of value.

pm9347 wrote:
as for extra biblical wrtings of jesus , look at josephus , if he was crazy was irrelavant , he still mentioned him

No, it is much more accurate to say someone added it to his writings while transcribing/copying the work.  This has been covered to death by Rook (part of which can be found here) as well as many others, the christian apologist side always boils down to special pleading and nothing more.

So, you still haven't addressed any points nor have you answered any of my questions.  I am looking forward to seeing you try again.


 

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"the good news , jesus chrst

"the good news , jesus chrst has risen and that whoever believes in him wont die but have eternal life (john 3:16)" /////  ________________________________

  Umm ,  is there any way to derive wisdom or anything positive from this ancient translation ???

   Let me try. First, "Life / Death / Risen" are subjective words that are connected in the "Eternal" principal,  philosophy.

   "Believes in" the message, of a jesus of the "christ" message, of "perfect" oneness.

    This seems a big intuitive leap from the superstitious non scientific times, of our thinking ancients, our family ancestors.

     Buddha - Reincarnation , all energy/matter is recycled, zero loss.

     John on Jesus , we are god "eternal", doing our temporal time "life" thing here ...

    ~ Temporal: of or relating to time as opposed to eternity. ~

    John seems not as crazy as so many today. I would rather pick on self appointed "apostle" Jesus visionary murderer prosecutor Saul/Paul. The dogmist greedy gifted uniter of Jews and Gentiles .... who wrote elegantly on "what is love" .....  

     Many say Paul was a main spoiler of the dirt simple simple Jesus philosophy of the real "brights", the "gnotics" some call them, the "Awake" , the "saved" I would say, "christ like" is another popular wording .....

  Atheism is the on going oppressed "resurrection", of the "saving jesus christ message" .... as "Ye are GOD(S)" !!!   .... Just as all Buddhas did say ....

                                                    "ONE"

          Jesus Atheist / Paul Xain   -  Atheist Jesus / Tyranny Paul 

      I AM GOD, and atheist "Jesus told me so!" .... neener neener neener

                        ahhh christ , make that 40 days, 140 .... ALONE ....

                 I am tired of being serious, when will the real party begin?  

    

 

  


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im back

had to work the past 2 days , i work 12  hour shifts so it takes up my whole day, i apoligize for the absence, im always checking the fourm for the current dicussions to keep current.  ok  lets look at josephus some more . herods tomb has recently been discovered based on josephus writings, the idea that a christian added in later who christ was is as crazy as being atheist. if herods tomb was found based on his writings. why can we not say, that his writings were factual, their are also other references for an example, the roman historian tacitus mentiones jesus when dicussing the fire that destroyed rome in ad 64.   "Nero fastened the guilt . . . on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of . . . Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judaea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome. . . . suprisingly several extra biblical references exist , although in short supply . lets also discuss my prevous message,

1. wars and rumors of wars : the 20 century has been the bloodiest century of history ,wars are increasing in intensity

2. unusual weather patterns : records have been broken all over the world in the past several years for weather, and you want to say its our fault due to pollution? several scientist state that there is no proof that the worlds heating pattern is from us, and there riducled for it , shouldnt we examine their data??

people claming to be christ, well where do you go from that one ???

look at the current situation involving israel the bible has the whole situation layed out , is it any wonder why every country around israel is islamic?? look at ezikeil 38.39 we are almost there on the time line!!!! 


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Correction

1) deadliest sure, better technology and better Weapons of mass destruction, however that doesn't mean there were more wars or more RUMORS of war, there has always been conflict in human history, I would like to see a century which didn't have conflict. There was more conflict in the 19th century, in just terms of actual WARS, there was 15 major wars in the 19th century, with only 14 Major wars in the 20th, that doesn't include minor conflicts. World  war 2 had the most amount of deaths between 60 to 72 million, the next largest amount of death.....is in the 13th century between 30 million to 60 million people during the mongol conquest, then the manchu conquest of ming china at 25 million during the 17th century, world war 1 at roughly 20 million although there is a higher number of about 70 million due to deaths during the spanish flu at the time.

2) We have only been keeping records of weather patterns since the 1880's.....that's just over 100 years, well 128 years so far, so yeah we broken records sure in only last 128 years, however we don't have it for the past 2000 years. Pollution can be caused by various factors not including human, such as volcanic activity is one major one. Do some more research as well before talking about this one please.

3) people claiming to be the messiah? or Christos? Umm there where many during the time that jesus supposedly lived, he wasn't the only one and since then there have been many more. So again some more research, many before and many after.


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"people claming to be

"people claming to be christ, well where do you go from that one ???" ~ pm9347

        Depends. Your airy dismissive jest troubles me deeply. Ahh, are you an idol worshiper, xain or similar?  You seem a bible history buff. What are thoughts regarding the "gnostic" or dead sea scrolls. Thomas' christ interpretations etc ?  

   "Ye ain't god",  I presume is your premise. Might Satan be in your ear, guiding you?

    You give mixed feelings friend ... I giggle while I tremble. Earth, planet OUCH !

    [ note: Definitions of messiah and christ vary ]


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pm9347 wrote: ok  lets

pm9347 wrote:

 ok  lets look at josephus some more . herods tomb has recently been discovered based on josephus writings, the idea that a christian added in later who christ was is as crazy as being atheist.

Call me crazy.

I already gave you the evidence and reason for not accepting the tainted Josephus quote on Jesus.

pm9347 wrote:

if herods tomb was found based on his writings. why can we not say, that his writings were factual,

Even your Bible is factual here and there. Rome, Assyria, Egypt, and Babylon  existed for example.

 

pm9347 wrote:

1. wars and rumors of wars : the 20 century has been the bloodiest century of history ,wars are increasing in intensity

See previous post by latincanuck. There have always been wars and they are not increasing in intensity.

pm9347 wrote:

2. unusual weather patterns : records have been broken all over the world in the past several years for weather, and you want to say its our fault due to pollution? several scientist state that there is no proof that the worlds heating pattern is from us, and there riducled for it , shouldnt we examine their data??

Didn't I already ask you to bring your data forward for the last 100,000 years to prove this statement?

pm9347 wrote:

people claming to be christ, well where do you go from that one ???

Just in the 1st century before and after Yahshua there were many. One of the best was bar Kosiba who even fooled most of the Rabbis.

pm9347 wrote:

look at the current situation involving israel the bible has the whole situation layed out , is it any wonder why every country around israel is islamic?? look at ezikeil 38.39 we are almost there on the time line!!!! 

Ezekiel was in need of Zoloft or a confine and treat order in a psychiatric ward. Ezekiel was a very inaccurate prophet who wrote bad Sci-Fi. The people of his time thought he was a false prophet or inaccurate, Ezekiel 33:30-33. Ezekiel claimed Nebuchadnezzar would conquer Tyre and Egypt and neither happened. So if he was inaccurate on that why do you give him any consideration for a non-existent country and leader of Magog and Gog?

Dude, Islam began in Saudi Arabia and spread by war for 800 years until it was pushed back. If your Christian idiots hadn't invaded Constantinople in the 4th Crusade Turkey might not be Islamic today and maybe even Egypt. Blame your Christian ancestors for Islam being spread as far as it did.

The Bible has nada laid out. The Israel of today is not what your mentally challenged prophet predicted.

____________________________________________________________
"I guess it's time to ask if you live under high voltage power transmission lines which have been shown to cause stimulation of the fantasy centers of the brain due to electromagnetic waves?" - Me

"God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, - it says so right here on the label. If you have a mind capable of believing all three of these divine attributes simultaneously, I have a wonderful bargain for you. No checks please. Cash and in small bills." - Robert A Heinlein.


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pm9347 wrote:had to work the

pm9347 wrote:

had to work the past 2 days , i work 12  hour shifts so it takes up my whole day, i apoligize for the absence, im always checking the fourm for the current dicussions to keep current.  ok  lets look at josephus some more . herods tomb has recently been discovered based on josephus writings, the idea that a christian added in later who christ was is as crazy as being atheist. if herods tomb was found based on his writings. why can we not say, that his writings were factual, their are also other references for an example, the roman historian tacitus mentiones jesus when dicussing the fire that destroyed rome in ad 64.   "Nero fastened the guilt . . . on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of . . . Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judaea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome. . . . suprisingly several extra biblical references exist , although in short supply . lets also discuss my prevous message,

Herod's tomb, is that mentioned in the sections that were additions?  Oh wait, no they weren't.  So what's that got to do with anything?  The forgeries stick out like a sore thumb, you can remove them in their entirety and the sections before and after flow together much more smoothly and make a lot more sense.  This has as much to do with herod's tomb as the price of fish in china.

All mentions by other authors that I've seen (including tacitus) the writers are talking about christians and what they believed.  Nobody doubts that christians were around at that time.  Nobody doubts they believed in jesus in some form or another.  So, that's not going to cut it either.

pm9347 wrote:
1. wars and rumors of wars : the 20 century has been the bloodiest century of history ,wars are increasing in intensity

No, someone's already pointed this out to be the opposite of how things are.  Re-read the replies.

pm9347 wrote:
2. unusual weather patterns : records have been broken all over the world in the past several years for weather, and you want to say its our fault due to pollution? several scientist state that there is no proof that the worlds heating pattern is from us, and there riducled for it , shouldnt we examine their data??

Once again you're just repeating yourself on claims that have already been disregarded.

pm9347 wrote:
people claming to be christ, well where do you go from that one ???

look at the current situation involving israel the bible has the whole situation layed out , is it any wonder why every country around israel is islamic?? look at ezikeil 38.39 we are almost there on the time line!!!! 

Israel has been a shitstorm for 2000 years.  It was all meant to be done and dusted within a generation.  We are so far beyond the timeline it isn't funny.

Organised religion is the ultimate form of blasphemy.
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The nitty gritty is ... How

The nitty gritty is ... How do YOU reconcile your AWE ? 

                               "YOUAWE"

                    I like inventing new words

                               "YESYEAH"

                                "GAWED"

                              <   E N O  <

                                      *

                                                                                                                  

                                      


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pm9347 wrote: jesus chrst

pm9347 wrote:
 jesus chrst has risen and that whoever believes in him wont die but have eternal life (john 3:16) hope that helps.. pat

 

GG

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pm9347 wrote:herods tomb has

pm9347 wrote:

herods tomb has recently been discovered based on josephus writings, the idea that a christian added in later who christ was is as crazy as being atheist. if herods tomb was found based on his writings. why can we not say, that his writings were factual, their are also other references for an example, the roman historian tacitus mentiones jesus when dicussing the fire that destroyed rome in ad 64.   "Nero fastened the guilt . . . on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of . . . Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judaea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome. . . . suprisingly several extra biblical references exist , although in short supply . lets also discuss my prevous message,

Well, a)not all of Josephus's writings are forgeries. Some of it was actually Josephus. The Christ passage, by comparison, appears to have been inserted, and clumsily. Thus, any passages not considered to be of the same author as the Christ passage cannot be used as evidence for or against the accuracy of the Christ passage.

b)Tacitus wrote not as someone with direct knowledge of the events, but as someone who had gleaned his information from believers. If the believers believed it, then how is he going to write anything but what they conveyed to him about their beliefs?

Quote:

1. wars and rumors of wars : the 20 century has been the bloodiest century of history ,wars are increasing in intensity

I'll grant you that warfare has been increasing in its efficiency at killing large numbers, but not its intensity.

In fact, the intensity of warfare has been on the decline for thousands of years. Increasingly, mankind codifies 'rules of war', expressly to limit the intensity of warfare. Warfare in ancient days was far more intense. Let's look at your primary source, for example: the Bible. For the moment, we won't question the accuracy of these events, though some do.

Joshua is commanded to make war upon the people living in Canaan. He is commanded to kill entire cities: men, women, children, and even livestock are all to be destroyed. Nothing is to be spared. Nothing is to be left to pollute the purity of God's People.

Let's compare that to warfare in the 21st century:

While universal military service does exist in some countries, by and large warfare is the province of professional soldiers. These soldiers choose this vocation, and are extremely well-trained in it, in those countries where they possess the ability to provide an appropriate level of training. In addition, there exist a set of Laws of Armed Conflict known as the Geneva Conventions. They provide:

1st Convention: Convention for the Amelioration of the Condition of the Wounded in Armies in the Field, 1864

Article 1: Ambulance and Hospitals are neutral, and should be protected by all parties, unless held by a military force (Hospital units that are part of a military organization, btw, are technically supposed to be held as neutral unless suspected to be a cover for an armed operation)

Article 2: Personnel of above fall under these same protections.

Article 3: Personnel of above shall not be prevented from discharging their duties, or returning to their units. When they have fully discharged their duties, if the hospital's under enemy control, they're to be delivered safely to their own people.

Article 4: Personnel leaving a military hospital take only their own possessions. Ambulances leaving a military hospital are to retain their stores.

Article 5: Civilians who bring wounded in, regardless of affiliation, are to be left free and unmolested. Military leaders have an obligation to make sure all civilians in the area know this, and are asked to bring in any wounded, from any side, that they can.

Article 6: Wounded or sick combatants will be cared for, regardless of affiliation. Those too sick to bear arms are to be repatriated ASAP. Others can either be returned to their military organization, or if they agree not to bear arms for the remainder of the conflict, repatriated.

Article 7: Medical Personnel are to wear a Red Cross at all times to identify themselves.

The second Convention provides for similar measures to those at sea. The third, for Prisoners of War.  The fourth, with over 180 separate Articles between the original and the three Annexes to the Protocols to spell out the specifics, deals with the protections of civilians. The fifth, also over 100 articles longs, deals with protecting the Victims of Armed Conflict.

In fact, society recognizes, all over the world, that warfare's increasing efficiency demands that its intensity be limited. The entire concept of an International War Crimes Court is testament to that. The 19th and 20th Centuries can be looked at a pivotal moment in warfare: Before the 19th Century, organized military action largely consisted of two stages. First, there was ranged combat. This was done via massed volley fire, as accuracy of individual shots was negligible. (The Kentucky Rifle of the late 18th century can be seen as aberrant to the time, and a harbinger, largely unappreciated, of things to come.) Then, when lines closed, warfare shifted to the ages-old grand melee. In fact, modern service knives are a holdover from the time when the bayonet was relied upon to allow the volley-firing ranks of musket-wielders to reconfigure themselves into short-ranged, but serviceable pikemen.

This was warfare as it was understood from the time of Rome and beyond: Ranged volleys that served largely to inflict scattered damage and weaken morale, followed by intense melee combat. Massed formations were required for this. Not only did they provide simple and direct means to maintain order, but a)massed formations allowed for effective ranged fire, by putting up large amounts of sling stones, javelins, arrows, or lead balls at once, and b)massed formations allowed for effective close-quarters combat by allowing the sheer weight of numbers to propel the battle line forward.

At the end of the 18th Century, rifling changes this, though as I said, it's not immediately recognized. In 1815, at the time of the Battle of Waterloo, the rifle has not yet replaced the venerable Brown Bess musket in the British Army. In fact, the rifle doesn't demonstrate its brutal efficiency en masse until the American Civil War (the Crimean War in the 1850s is largely composed of naval besiegements and bombardments), which, again, is largely ignored by the 'military powers' of Europe. After all, it's Americans killing Americans, and most of the carnage is of the sort to be expected: Up close and personal, from charging fortified positions capable of returning massed fire. That's been suicidal since the first time people threw rocks down from a ledge at something running at them.

In addition, the Regimental System of Europe's armies largely segregates and shelters leaders from the real potential for slaughter, and by the 1890s, the Concert of Europe has begun, by which skilled politicians and horse-traders manage to limit the outbreaks of warfare remarkably (Bismark is usually under-credited for the degree to which he convinces the Kaiser to not go to war).

Until 1914, when all hell breaks loose.

Not only has the rifle been fully incorporated into Europe's armies, but it's been improved upon. Fixed emplacement weapons of tremendous firepower are available, mocking the 'high' rate of fire of Gatling's hand-cranked multi-barrel gun. Cannon have embraced rifling as well, creating the modern artillery piece, and the military application of petroleum is making the first flamethrowers since ancient China feasible.

Military and National leaders, used to the Concert of Europe, are more or less sure their counterparts aren't willing to commit the massive popular resources needed to win the war, so of course... they do, believing it's the best way to overwhelm the enemy.

This results in horrific events like the Battle of the Somme, 5 months of continuous fighting that leaves 1.5 million dead. On the first day, the British Army suffers 57,470 casualties, of which some 19,240 are dead. This is the bloodiest day in the history of the British Army, and the Somme is one of the bloodiest military operations in all of recorded history.

And yet... those are soldiers. Not women, and not children, though of course some doubtless are killed during the war. The militaries of both sides recognize that war is fought between armies. War is a matter of professionals, not a question of extermination.

The Final Solution and the Holocaust under the Nazis, thirty years later? Acts of madness, of genocide... but not warfare. They occured during a period of warfare, but like Stalin's purges and the 20,000,000 dead Stalin left in the Ukraine, not part of the warfare.

In World War II, the most uncontrolled aspects of warfare are the newest: aerial bombardment, which grows more controlled as greater accuracy becomes possible, and the atom bomb, used twice, and for all its horror, perhaps in the long run for the good: The world has seen the evils of nuclear weapons, and only the very smallest of them was enough to make even the greatest military powers of the age decide the risk too great to ever allow them to be used again.

That's the history of warfare: new methods to kill more efficiently arise, and in response, new rules arise to restrict their use. As societies grow more sophisticated and prosperous, more and more limitations are placed on the acceptibility of warfare.

Look, by comparison, at the current U.S. occupation of Iraq: For the size of the country, the force is frighteningly small, and the Rules of Engagement pretty much require the soldier to adhere to the principles behind the Geneva Conventions, even if they're playing a bit fast and loose with the particulars.

Comparatively, the genocidal bloodshed in the Sudan is just that: a genocide. It's not a war. It's murder, en masse. The tribal warfare in central Africa is far closer to 'war' as Joshua practiced it... and yet, it's the exception in modern warfare, not the rule.

Terrorism, by the way? Not warfare. Murder. Asymmetrical or 'unconventional' warfare, which is what some claim terrorism to be, still follows the rules of war: war is to be conducted between identifiable members of military organizations. As an example: If someone blows up a bus to kill a bunch of Americans, that's murder. The closest you can get to that and still be a legitimate form of 'war' is a man with a gun who puts on a predetermined armband and steps onto a bus, announces his affiliations, and asks that all American military personnel please exit the bus. When they do, he takes them prisoner (or, if they are armed and resist, shoots them). That's as close as 'guerilla' warfare comes to terrorism. Any farther, and it's crossed the line to murder.

So no, war isn't more intense these days, or more common. It's more efficiently executed, and gets wider press coverage, but that's it.

Quote:
2. unusual weather patterns : records have been broken all over the world in the past several years for weather, and you want to say its our fault due to pollution? several scientist state that there is no proof that the worlds heating pattern is from us, and there riducled for it , shouldnt we examine their data??

Their data has been examined and peer reviewed in scientific journals. Do you really think this shit just gets decided on and then anyone saying otherwise is ridiculed? Think about this for a moment:

Science itself is a peer-review process. Scientists check up on one another. If they can prove one another wrong, they want to. So that data is going to be examined. A lot. And debunked if possible... which it has been. In fact, global warming can be shown to have already pretty much averted one trough in the weather patterns that should have hit a few thousand years ago, but agriculture reduced forestation levels and increased methane production (cuz it's a lot easier to keep livestock if you can provide 'em with steady fodder). And that probably let us skip an ice age that would've pretty well prevented us from getting the ball rolling on 'civilization' much.

Quote:
people claming to be christ, well where do you go from that one ???

What, like Joseph Smith and Brigham Young didn't claim to be new messiahs, leading their people out into the wilderness? There are always going to be messianic cults. People have, since time immemorial, looked to have someone else take care of their problems. Every now and again, one of these cults gets some traction. Let's see where the Mormons are in another 1900 years, hm?

Quote:
look at the current situation involving israel the bible has the whole situation layed out , is it any wonder why every country around israel is islamic?? look at ezikeil 38.39 we are almost there on the time line!!!! 

You mean besides biblical literalist apocalypse-junkie Christians in the late 40s deciding to use the plight of the European Jews in order to purposefully try to fulfill biblical prophecy and foment the end-times?

First off, lemme just point out that Christ himself, according to the Bible, said that nobody knows when it's going to happen. That all attempts to say 'here it comes!' are wasted, and that the only true protection is not to see it coming, but to be prepared at all times for it to sneak up on you and happen.

Second, really, when you've got a book full of prophecy, and a bunch in lunatics who want to bring about the end of the world using that prophecy, is it SO surprising that they manage to match some of it? I'm more surprised that they didn't convince the British to name Lebanon 'Magog' and Jordan 'Gog' when they divvied the area up.

And third, and finally... prophecy should be looked at by the believer as bullshit.

I know, that sounds kinda off, but really, if you believe in God, you have even more reason to be skeptical and critical of prophecy than my agnostic-atheist self. After all, I admit I don't know. So accurate prophecy might be taken as proof by someone like me.

You, though... prophecy, like some Christian prayer beliefs (ask Jesus to come into your heart and you *will* be saved!), should be anathema to you. They're not glorifying God... they're limiting Him. They're not faith... they're sorcery. "Say these words with this intent, and God will do X."... like a set of VCR instructions.

As a believer, how can you tolerate the position that a human being saying certain words compels God to react in a specific, inescapable way? How can you tolerate the position that if a human being does X, God is powerless to not produce the effect the human being is seeking to invoke? I'll say it again: That's not faith. That's magic. That's spellcraft: 'Do X to produce Y effect! God is helpless to refuse your incantation!'.

And what is prophecy, but the same thing, writ vaguely over more time?

"I am the prophet Bob-ikiah, and I say that when X and Y, things entirely within the power of man, occur, then A, B, and C will happen by God's hand! God is powerless to not obey my decree!"

How can you stomach that? How can you, as a believer in the God described by John, put up with this wizardry that lies and claims to be faith?

"You've got to remember that these are just simple farmers. These are people of the land. The common clay of the new West. You know... morons." - The Waco Kid


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Oh: One more minor point re:

Oh: One more minor point re: wars and the 20th Century being the bloodiest in history.

 

Population Levels.

If you kill off 100,000,000 people in 1200AD, you've just wiped out 25% of the world's population.

If you kill off 100,000,000 people in 1400AD, you've just wiped out 28% of the world's population.

If you kill off 100,000,000 people in 1600AD, you've just wiped out 17% of the world's population.

If you kill off 100,000,000 people in 1800AD, you've just wiped out 11% of the world's population.

If you kill off 100,000,000 people in 2000AD, you've just wiped out 1.6% of the world's population.

 

1400, btw, was still in the 'recovering from the Black Death' phase where something like, well, 25% of the world's population died.

The point is, that as population levels increase dramatically (more than 10x as many people now than 400 years ago) compared to prior rates (1200AD, estimates place ~300-400 Million people worldwide. 1 AD, those same estimates place... ~200-300 Million people worldwide. Comparatively stable), yes, even reducing the scope of warfare can still result in higher numbers of dead. Let's take a quick comparison, though:

The U.S. Census Bureau estimates 1,750,000,000 people on the planet in 1910. Approximately 1,500,000 died during the 5 months of the Somme during WWI.

The U.S. Census Bureau estimates 300,000,000 people on the planet in 1 AD. Proportionately, that's 250,000 people dying over those 5 months, for 50,000 people killed a month, or just over 1,667 people a day.

The Battle of Teutoberg Forest, estimated as lasting from Sept 9 to Sept 11, 9 AD, killed over 20,000 Roman Legionnaires and Auxiliaries, along with a smaller but unrecorded number of Germanic barbarians. The Germans, btw, won.

Over 20,000 in 3 days.

That is, proportionate to the world's population, the equivalent of 15 days at the Somme. 5 times as many died in a day, proportionately.

That level of slaughter would have produced a final tally at the Somme of 7,500,000 dead.

But, that's one 3-day battle vs 5 months of constant warfare.

So. What's it all mean?

Absolutely nothing, except that it's impossible to really judge one epoch's wars against another's. All wars are fought in their own time, with their own means.

"You've got to remember that these are just simple farmers. These are people of the land. The common clay of the new West. You know... morons." - The Waco Kid


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BMcD wrote: The Battle of

BMcD wrote:

 

The Battle of Teutoberg Forest, estimated as lasting from Sept 9 to Sept 11, 9 AD, killed over 20,000 Roman Legionnaires and Auxiliaries, along with a smaller but unrecorded number of Germanic barbarians. The Germans, btw, won.

Over 20,000 in 3 days.

That is, proportionate to the world's population, the equivalent of 15 days at the Somme. 5 times as many died in a day, proportionately.

 

     A fairly impressive accomplishment since the leader of that slaughter, Arminius, was only  twenty five years old at the time....

 

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pm9347 wrote:well i

pm9347 wrote:

well i delivered the good news , so now thats over with i would like to debate more on jesus christ , can anybody tell me why they think he  didnt walk on earth , and why he isnt god??

For the same reason Harry Potter doesn't IN REALITY, fly around on a broomstick. For the same reason Thor does not make lighting. If you really believe that Gabriel told Mary God was in the mood, or that claimed son of claimed deity magically survived rigor mortis, you might as well blindly believe that I have an invisible Lamborginni I can fart out of my butt.

Arguing that a person existed is unrelated to the separate issue to the claims of magic. I can prove that George Washington existed, but how many sane people claim that he could fly around on a broomstick?

There is no doubt that belief in Jesus is popular, but so is belief in Allah. Yet, you don't believe that Muhammed was an oracle of the one true god of Allah.

Did it ever occur to you that life is not magical. Good things happen, bad things happen and that myths are the product of humans filling the gap with the simplistic utopia of "good vs evil", rather that saying, "shit happens".

No one likes bad things happening to them. But rather than creating a super hero and villain, like a scared child fearing coal in their stocking at Christmas, why not THINK ahead and study all without inserting magical gaps.

There certainly was someone or some group that inspired the story of the Jesus claim. But there is absolutelty NO emperical evidence that spirits knock up girls or that dead flesh can survive rigor mortis.

 

 

 

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geirj
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pm9347 wrote: i apoligize

pm9347 wrote:

 i apoligize for the absence,

Stop apologizing already. It's a sign of weakness.

 

pm9347 wrote:

1. wars and rumors of wars : the 20 century has been the bloodiest century of history ,wars are increasing in intensity

Define "intensity". If by intensity you mean combined military and civilian casualties, that actually peaked with WWII. Casualty numbers have dropped sharply in conflicts since then. And it's unlikely that we'll see another worldwide conflict anytime soon. The United States is one of the few remaining countries that hasn't figured out that blowing shit up is no way to solve problems. And that being said, the current conflict in Iraq has just about driven that point home.

 

pm9347 wrote:

2. unusual weather patterns : records have been broken all over the world in the past several years for weather, and you want to say its our fault due to pollution? several scientist state that there is no proof that the worlds heating pattern is from us, and there riducled for it , shouldnt we examine their data??

And there are several thousand scientists who would disagree with you.

 

pm9347 wrote:

is it any wonder why every country around israel is islamic??

Um, no. They have been for ages.

You also say the bible has the "whole situation layed out" with regard to Israel. How, exactly?

Nobody I know was brainwashed into being an atheist.

Why Believe?


pm9347
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im not meaning to show

im not meaning to show weakness , some of the other athiest say that im giving drive by gospel and that im not hanging around to debate. i have to work long hours several days a week , ok

wars and rumors of wars , if you can see the intensity and the horrors that we have seen in the past leading up till now war has developed more and with a larger death toll , some may argue that its just stats, i disagree. warfare has increased , and how we kill others in new and devious ways has gotten worse. as for a major war breaking out check the headlines, isreal is about to lay a spanking on iran, im sure it will be a blood after that , isnt it odd that iran might lead a coalition of countries against israel with russia in the background exactly as its spelled out in ezekiel 38-39????

the weather patterns , i read an article that states  several german scientist say we are heading in to a global cooling period , it seems to me that science is confused on the weather , and how does global warming explain all the earthquakes that have been increasing in intensity since 1949?? the same year israel was born??

you have to be blind to look around the world and see something is going on.

 

 


pauljohntheskeptic
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pm9347 wrote:im not meaning

pm9347 wrote:

im not meaning to show weakness , some of the other athiest say that im giving drive by gospel and that im not hanging around to debate. i have to work long hours several days a week , ok

wars and rumors of wars , if you can see the intensity and the horrors that we have seen in the past leading up till now war has developed more and with a larger death toll , some may argue that its just stats, i disagree. warfare has increased , and how we kill others in new and devious ways has gotten worse. as for a major war breaking out check the headlines, isreal is about to lay a spanking on iran, im sure it will be a blood after that , isnt it odd that iran might lead a coalition of countries against israel with russia in the background exactly as its spelled out in ezekiel 38-39????

the weather patterns , i read an article that states  several german scientist say we are heading in to a global cooling period , it seems to me that science is confused on the weather , and how does global warming explain all the earthquakes that have been increasing in intensity since 1949?? the same year israel was born??

you have to be blind to look around the world and see something is going on.

 

You have clearly been listening to George W too much. Iran is Shite and has so many friends among Sunni Arab Muslims. If the Saudis could get away with it they would blast Iran off the map before Israel because they so love those Persian heretics to Islam.

As to the rest of your post repetition of BS is still BS, it doesn't smell any less if you repeat it over and over. You sound like one of the true Christians who wants to go to Jesus ASAP. Enjoy your trip.

____________________________________________________________
"I guess it's time to ask if you live under high voltage power transmission lines which have been shown to cause stimulation of the fantasy centers of the brain due to electromagnetic waves?" - Me

"God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, - it says so right here on the label. If you have a mind capable of believing all three of these divine attributes simultaneously, I have a wonderful bargain for you. No checks please. Cash and in small bills." - Robert A Heinlein.


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pm9347 wrote:i have to work

pm9347 wrote:

i have to work long hours several days a week , ok

So do I.

 

pm9347 wrote:

wars and rumors of wars , if you can see the intensity and the horrors that we have seen in the past leading up till now war has developed more and with a larger death toll , some may argue that its just stats, i disagree. warfare has increased , and how we kill others in new and devious ways has gotten worse. as for a major war breaking out check the headlines, isreal is about to lay a spanking on iran, im sure it will be a blood after that , isnt it odd that iran might lead a coalition of countries against israel with russia in the background exactly as its spelled out in ezekiel 38-39????

the weather patterns , i read an article that states  several german scientist say we are heading in to a global cooling period , it seems to me that science is confused on the weather , and how does global warming explain all the earthquakes that have been increasing in intensity since 1949?? the same year israel was born??

you have to be blind to look around the world and see something is going on.

You're speaking in quantifiable terms, but failing to quantify them. You say warfare is "increasing" and "getting worse". Please provide some data.

Israel declared independence in 1948, which I think is what you're referring to, not 1949. Though Israel has existed for roughly 4,000 years, give or take.

And how exactly are you connecting earthquakes to global warming?

 

Nobody I know was brainwashed into being an atheist.

Why Believe?


latincanuck
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pm9347 wrote:im not meaning

pm9347 wrote:

im not meaning to show weakness , some of the other athiest say that im giving drive by gospel and that im not hanging around to debate. i have to work long hours several days a week , ok

wars and rumors of wars , if you can see the intensity and the horrors that we have seen in the past leading up till now war has developed more and with a larger death toll , some may argue that its just stats, i disagree. warfare has increased , and how we kill others in new and devious ways has gotten worse. as for a major war breaking out check the headlines, isreal is about to lay a spanking on iran, im sure it will be a blood after that , isnt it odd that iran might lead a coalition of countries against israel with russia in the background exactly as its spelled out in ezekiel 38-39????

the weather patterns , i read an article that states  several german scientist say we are heading in to a global cooling period , it seems to me that science is confused on the weather , and how does global warming explain all the earthquakes that have been increasing in intensity since 1949?? the same year israel was born??

you have to be blind to look around the world and see something is going on.

 

 

Intensity, in what sense? Large scale war? Long long like 30 year wars? 20 year wars? 10 year wars? what the heck do you mean by intensity, i mean for longest war the hundred year war (well 120 plus years) would be long wouldn't you say?, the amount of death? By what the numbers or by the the amount the population decreased of the earth at the time?, The forms of death? the form of execution of prisoners? the excution of civilians of a nation that has been invaded? Rumors of war? what rumors are we talking about? there have been rumors of war since the egyptian times. Devious new ways? At least the atmoic bomb kills ya for the most part, or there is radiation sickness, but really in warfare, it's straight out kill, and if you captured well they can't straight out kill you like say Vlad the Impaler, that would lmpale the enemy and the civilians of the lands he would capture, and they would be alive, impaled, alive. For the Japanese army, they would kill their prisoners in a form of testing of skill, they would slice their capture enemies head off, but try to leave it hanging by a thread of skin. Or various other forms of torture and death, that today's army won't commit. Isarel won't attack Iran, because it's not the best thing to do at this point in time for them, it's basically a huge chest thumping contest, the US has most of it's army occupied in 2 different countries fighting 2 different wars (well the same the war of TERROR oooohhhh) So basically you really are just spewing out of your ass at this point, you haven't stated squat, just keep on rambling what the preachers tell ya, your a blindman following another lbindman.

Earthquakes increasing, well since we have only really been keeping world wide records (and even then it's been spotty for the first 100 years) since the early 1800's, it's hard to say yeah there is a major increase since human populations has been on earth. Since your quick to throw words of doom out, how about you actually back up your words. Since the last time I gave you death stats of major conflicts, 13th century mongol during it's conquest it is estimated between 30 to 60 million deaths....at the time the population of that area was around 100 million (that is over 100 years) So lets take the middle ground say 40 million that's a LARGE portion of the population killed off, now take the context in todays terms where the same area has 1.6 BILLION now 40 million deaths isn't that large. So please please please bring some data when your trying to make some statement like your saying, increase intensity or more warfare means squat if you can't back it up. Oh and most of the major deaths occur before the 20th century.


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pm9347 wrote:<claims>Forget

pm9347 wrote:
<claims>
Forget quantifying your claims. Let's look at another important angle:

There have been HUNDREDS of folks claiming the earth was nearing its end. Why are your claims any more true than thiers were (we all note: the world is stubbornly still here.)

For instance:

  • Charles Taze Russell in 1914
  • Joseph Rutherford in 1925
  • Jim Jones in 1978
  • David Koresh in 1993
  • Luc Jouret in 1994

They all had identical arguments to yours. They were all wrong.

Some of them tried to make it true, and ended up killing thier gullible followers. You're not planning that, are you?

"Anyone can repress a woman, but you need 'dictated' scriptures to feel you're really right in repressing her. In the same way, homophobes thrive everywhere. But you must feel you've got scripture on your side to come up with the tedious 'Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve' style arguments instead of just recognising that some people are different." - Douglas Murray