I am curious as to how atheists could argue against these quotes by Adolf Hitler and the Marquis de Sade

rybak303
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I am curious as to how atheists could argue against these quotes by Adolf Hitler and the Marquis de Sade

I am curious, if Nature, that is the material universe, is all that there is and absolute morals and truth do not exist then how do atheists refute the following statements by Adolf Hitler and the Marquis de Sade?

 

“I do not see why man should not be just as cruel as nature.” -Hitler

 

“Success is the sole earthly judge of right and wrong.” -Hitler

 

“Miserable creatures, thrown for a moment on the surface of this little pile of mud, is it decreed that one half of the flock should be the persecutor of the other? Is it for you, mankind, to pronounce on what is good and what is evil?” -Marquis de Sade

 

“All universal moral principles are idle fancies.” -Marquis de Sade

 


100percentAtheist
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 Oh, please, what is your

 Oh, please, what is your point?

RYFB first. 


Atheistextremist
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A thinly veiled ad homenim

 

swims under this putrid guff like a shark.

"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck


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Yes and we all look like

Yes and we all look like Gossamer from looney toons too


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rybak303 wrote:

rybak303 wrote:

“I do not see why man should not be just as cruel as nature.” -Hitler

Man is already a part of nature, and often, is no less cruel than any other part of it.

There is no 'why.' We won't be cruel because we don't want to be. That is all.

rybak303 wrote:
“Success is the sole earthly judge of right and wrong.” -Hitler

Pragmatism is very useful for determining what is right or wrong in terms of truth. With morality, however, there is no absolute right and wrong.

rybak303 wrote:
“Miserable creatures, thrown for a moment on the surface of this little pile of mud, is it decreed that one half of the flock should be the persecutor of the other? Is it for you, mankind, to pronounce on what is good and what is evil?” -Marquis de Sade

It is not for anybody. Nobody can pronounce what is good or evil because the entire concept of morality is just an abstraction of our preferences. 

rybak303 wrote:
“All universal moral principles are idle fancies.” -Marquis de Sade

Correct.

Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare


Brian37
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How about Ann Cunthead's

How about Ann Cunthead's comments about Islam and that "we" should force them to convert?

Uttering an absurdity is a human behavior, not an invention of a label, any label.

What Hitler and theocracies have in common is obedience to authority without the ability to dissent.

Chasing a utopia is what the leaders of the Dark Ages did, run by Christians with deadly results. Hitler fell for the same mind trap with the same destruction to human kind. He could hardly be called an atheist considering his countless reference to god choosing the Germans as god's chosen people. Not to mention the SS belt buckles his officers had.

I am an atheist, not a fascist. I do not want to live under the likes of Hitler or Stalin or modern Iran or under the Dark Ages. All those states are bad for human empathy and are nothing but power grabs.

The west has had 200+ of the attitude that laws are not "might makes right" or "majority rule" but ones of advise and consent where neither the majority or minority have absolute power.

Fascism is not an invention of a label. It is a product of human narcissism in the attitude that "If it is good for me then I have the right to force it on others for their own good". Ideology, politics and religion often go down the road of fascism because of human narcissism.

Believing in a god doesn't mean one is incapable of being fascist.

So do you have any other stupid stereotypes about us godless kitten barbecue'rs?

We wont rape your women. We won't burn down your churches. We don't share the same views of monsters like Hitler. Are you done with your stupid questions now?

 

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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Morals and Ethics

I am afraid I don't fully understand what your question is supposed to imply or I simply don't understand how true or false and/or obscene and/or shortsighted comments uttered by individuals (may they be theist or atheist) has any bearing on the existence of 'truth' or that of naturalism (materialism) or that of morals (relative as they might be). Morals and ethics are side effects of life and society springing from self preservation, found in theists and atheists alike.
Perhaps you should rephrase your question.
 


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Quote:I am curious, if

Quote:
I am curious, if Nature, that is the material universe, is all that there is and absolute morals and truth do not exist then how do atheists refute the following statements by Adolf Hitler and the Marquis de Sade?

 

you have your answer....... they don't.

'It appeareth in nothing more, that atheism is rather in the lip than in the heart of man, than by this: that atheists will ever be talking of that their opinion, as if they fainted it within themselves and would be glad to be strengthened by the consent of others.' Francis Bacon.


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freeminer wrote:you have

freeminer wrote:
you have your answer....... they don't.

Actually, that guy is a hit-and-run poster. He never comes back and he goes after the believers as well. It's anyone's guess what he really thinks.


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Anonymouse wrote:freeminer

Anonymouse wrote:

freeminer wrote:
you have your answer....... they don't.

Actually, that guy is a hit-and-run poster. He never comes back and he goes after the believers as well. It's anyone's guess what he really thinks.

SENT TO EMAIL:

It has come to my attention that you have created 7 threads on my website and have yet to make a follow up response to every single one of them.  This comes across as troll like behavior.  Please respond and follow up to all 7 of the threads before creating another thread.  Failure to do so will result in account termination.   http://www.rationalresponders.com/user/rybak303/track   - Brian Sapient

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Eh, whatever. “I do

Eh, whatever.

 

“I do not see why man should not be just as cruel as nature.” -Hitler

The expected payoff of working together is often higher for all involved then the expected payoff of beating the shit out of each other.

 

“Success is the sole earthly judge of right and wrong.” -Hitler

Who won WWII again?

 

“Miserable creatures, thrown for a moment on the surface of this little pile of mud, is it decreed that one half of the flock should be the persecutor of the other? Is it for you, mankind, to pronounce on what is good and what is evil?” -Marquis de Sade

 

There are two questions here..

1. Probably by some, although come to think of it persecution is almost never a 50/50 phenomenon except when it's sex based (and even then, it's not exactly 50/50).  However, it is certainly not "decreed" by laws of nature or some sky daddy or whatever.

2. I have not received any moral guidance from any other species on this planet, so I guess if anyone's going to do it, it's got to be us.

 

“All universal moral principles are idle fancies.” -Marquis de Sade

 

If by "idle fancies" he means false, then heck no.  Consider the statement "All bad stuff is bad."

If by "idle fancies" he means either false or pretty much useless (like the above), then I'd agree, but I'd also point out that universal is not the same thing as objective.

 

Questions for Theists:
http://silverskeptic.blogspot.com/2011/03/consistent-standards.html

I'm a bit of a lurker. Every now and then I will come out of my cave with a flurry of activity. Then the Ph.D. program calls and I must fall back to the shadows.


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godless kitten barbecue'rs

Brian37 said: "We wont rape your women. We won't burn down your churches. We don't share the same views of monsters like Hitler. Are you done with your stupid questions now?"

But rethink the original question: WHY will you not rape burn and kill? WHY is Hitler a “monster” and not one who freely chooses to live a path free of Christian ethics- following in a VERY logical manner the teachings of Darwinism? Why would you not celebrate his choice?

 How do you, from the godless point of view, defend the idea that you should choose to be kind over cruel, that you should choose NOT to rape, that you should choose not to follow the logic of Hitler’s application of atheistic Darwinism? You are of course FREE to choose whichever lifestyle you like, but aside from your personal subjective emotional responses to these choices WHY is one better than another?  By what standard do you measure them?

In short- you have no reason (I don’t mean this as a criticism, just a statement of fact). You have the free choice to be Hitler or dislike Hitler, but the Godless perspective gives you No way to condemn Hitler, or rapists, or the Republicans or anything else you might hate. You can choose not to be a cruel, racist, rapist, but you cannot condemn those that are. You can merely dislike them.  

If you can show me with logic and reason that I am wrong, please do. If you’re going to delve into 4

th

grade name-calling, why do you bother to post here? Seriously. That is SUCH cheap Samurai tactics. Don’t go cheap- just go Samurai. And have a muffin. You’ll be glad that you did.

 


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Sugarbomb wrote:Brian37

Sugarbomb wrote:

Brian37 said: "We wont rape your women. We won't burn down your churches. We don't share the same views of monsters like Hitler. Are you done with your stupid questions now?"

But rethink the original question: WHY will you not rape burn and kill? WHY is Hitler a “monster” and not one who freely chooses to live a path free of Christian ethics- following in a VERY logical manner the teachings of Darwinism? Why would you not celebrate his choice?

 How do you, from the godless point of view, defend the idea that you should choose to be kind over cruel, that you should choose NOT to rape, that you should choose not to follow the logic of Hitler’s application of atheistic Darwinism? You are of course FREE to choose whichever lifestyle you like, but aside from your personal subjective emotional responses to these choices WHY is one better than another?  By what standard do you measure them?

In short- you have no reason (I don’t mean this as a criticism, just a statement of fact). You have the free choice to be Hitler or dislike Hitler, but the Godless perspective gives you No way to condemn Hitler, or rapists, or the Republicans or anything else you might hate. You can choose not to be a cruel, racist, rapist, but you cannot condemn those that are. You can merely dislike them.  

If you can show me with logic and reason that I am wrong, please do. If you’re going to delve into 4

th

grade name-calling, why do you bother to post here? Seriously. That is SUCH cheap Samurai tactics. Don’t go cheap- just go Samurai. And have a muffin. You’ll be glad that you did.

 

Why don't I do the things you mention? It is not in the best interest of human beings in society to wipe themselves out. I am a human being in society so I don't do things that are not in the best interest of other humans in society.

The Bible is replete with stories of God either killing or commanding others to kill for him - sometimes because he just like the smell (as when he asked the Israelites to offer the Amalekites to him as a burnt offering).

In a battle of moralities, I'll take mine over God's any day.

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


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Sugarbomb wrote:Brian37

Sugarbomb wrote:

Brian37 said: "We wont rape your women. We won't burn down your churches. We don't share the same views of monsters like Hitler. Are you done with your stupid questions now?"

But rethink the original question: WHY will you not rape burn and kill? WHY is Hitler a “monster” and not one who freely chooses to live a path free of Christian ethics- following in a VERY logical manner the teachings of Darwinism? Why would you not celebrate his choice?

 How do you, from the godless point of view, defend the idea that you should choose to be kind over cruel, that you should choose NOT to rape, that you should choose not to follow the logic of Hitler’s application of atheistic Darwinism? You are of course FREE to choose whichever lifestyle you like, but aside from your personal subjective emotional responses to these choices WHY is one better than another?  By what standard do you measure them?

In short- you have no reason (I don’t mean this as a criticism, just a statement of fact). You have the free choice to be Hitler or dislike Hitler, but the Godless perspective gives you No way to condemn Hitler, or rapists, or the Republicans or anything else you might hate. You can choose not to be a cruel, racist, rapist, but you cannot condemn those that are. You can merely dislike them.  

If you can show me with logic and reason that I am wrong, please do. If you’re going to delve into 4

th

grade name-calling, why do you bother to post here? Seriously. That is SUCH cheap Samurai tactics. Don’t go cheap- just go Samurai. And have a muffin. You’ll be glad that you did.

 

Quote:
WHY will you not rape burn and kill?

Because humans evolved to have empathy for others. No magical fictional super hero needed. Human psychology, not some magical man with a pitchfork, caused Hitler to lead Germans to follow him.

Germany got it's ass kicked in WW1 and nothing was done to rebuild the country, it was left to rot. Hitler promised the Germans that they would be saved from their despair and convinced them they were god's chosen people.

But of course, I am probably wasting my time typing this being that you think everyone needs your fictional sky friend to be good.

I haven't had a speeding ticket in 7 years and have never had a felony, and I have never been arrested or convicted for a violent crime, much less any crime, for that matter. If your god is soooooooooo needed by humans, why are prisons soooo full of believers and why would we need purgury laws if fear of god allegedly made people tell the truth?

Humans do good and humans do bad and none of the good or bad humans do is the result of Superman vs Kriptonite.

Crime and war have always existed, in every culture, in every country, even before countries existed in our evolution. Humans, are capable of the same range of human behavior, good and bad and none of that behavior requires a god any more than believing in Thor or Isis makes you do good or bad.

I do not need your god, or any god to live my life. But if believing in a fantasy keeps you from killing me, by all means keep believing in it.

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


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 What scares me is all the

 What scares me is all the religious types who claim the only reason the don't rape and murder is because of the god they believe in. If the only reason you don't rape and murder is because an old book tells you not to you are a disgusting, despicable person and I condemn you.

 

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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I'll add by saying that if

I'll add by saying that if some freak raped and murdered say one of my children then oh hell it is my place to codemn them. I also want to ask are you saying that because we have no belief in god  that we shouldn't say they are horrible people and should just dislike them?

If all the Christians who have called other Christians " not really a Christian " were to vanish, there'd be no Christians left.


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And even before you get to

And even before you get to the ancient book of myth the attributes of this  alleged invisible super hero are as absurd as the book itself.

"All powerful" could stop or prevent human suffering, but not only is indiscriminate about it, blames us for the game he set up in the first place and didn't have to. Talk about passing blame.

"All loving", yea, this alleged god has nuclear missile and the bad guy has a pea shooter, but you cant or wont prevent him from doing harm to others?

"All seeing" yea, he watches you shit and piss and have sex (he is watching you every nanosecond of your life, you have no privacy). And he also watches as the bad guy rapes and butchers children. Having a problem with adults, thats one thing, but even children get harmed under his watch, even when he can prevent it.

"All knowing" but couldn't put a book together that was not convoluted and written by 40 authors over a 1,000 year period. He knows so much but choses to make it hard for us to understand him. I wouldn't trust this inept fool to write instructions on how to make a peanut butter and jelly sandwich. If he knows what it takes to convince me, then he must want me to be an atheist because nothing happens in life unless he wants it to.

Even before you get to that convoluted claptrap of a book, these popular attributes people ascribe to this alleged disembodied magical super brain, this list above is enough for me to call such a being not only inept, but immoral.

 

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


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Sugarbomb wrote:Brian37

Sugarbomb wrote:

Brian37 said: "We wont rape your women. We won't burn down your churches. We don't share the same views of monsters like Hitler. Are you done with your stupid questions now?"

But rethink the original question: WHY will you not rape burn and kill? WHY is Hitler a “monster” and not one who freely chooses to live a path free of Christian ethics- following in a VERY logical manner the teachings of Darwinism? Why would you not celebrate his choice?

 How do you, from the godless point of view, defend the idea that you should choose to be kind over cruel, that you should choose NOT to rape, that you should choose not to follow the logic of Hitler’s application of atheistic Darwinism? You are of course FREE to choose whichever lifestyle you like, but aside from your personal subjective emotional responses to these choices WHY is one better than another?  By what standard do you measure them?

In short- you have no reason (I don’t mean this as a criticism, just a statement of fact). You have the free choice to be Hitler or dislike Hitler, but the Godless perspective gives you No way to condemn Hitler, or rapists, or the Republicans or anything else you might hate. You can choose not to be a cruel, racist, rapist, but you cannot condemn those that are. You can merely dislike them.  

If you can show me with logic and reason that I am wrong, please do. If you’re going to delve into 4

th

grade name-calling, why do you bother to post here? Seriously. That is SUCH cheap Samurai tactics. Don’t go cheap- just go Samurai. And have a muffin. You’ll be glad that you did.

 

Let see you need the old book to keep you from doing these things. Got it!

I will be using the term "us" in this post. Meaning Atheist, however I do not pretend to speak for all Atheist. Just myself and I know that some will agree...

As for us we don't need the old book to keep us from doing these things. It's just that history is full of times where these things were everyday practice "biblical days". Your god endorsed these behaviors. We don't believe in god, so we don't endorse his ways of treating people.

The real question here is why don't you do these thing?

Your deity has placed you in charge of correcting the nonbeliever or those who believe in other gods. These things you speak of are his ways of getting the point across. Your bible tells you to kill anyone that doesn't believe in him. You fail to do these things. Why?

You can try all day to say that the "morality" of Christianity is better than the kind nature of evolution, but you are wrong.

The way I see it you have two outs to do the most horrible thing to people.

1. You can always fall back on the bible, stating that you were defending the name of your "lord and savior".

2. You can use the line that so many have used. The devil saw me as a threat so he put these evil thought in my head to discredit me. It's all his fault.

Once you've cleared your reasoning then the only thing left to do is to ask your imaginary friend to forgive you. All is well in the land of the hypocritical christian.

Now we don't use any of these ridiculous claims. If I do something that is horrible I would have only myself to blame.

Put yourself on that pedestal and we will snatch that hallo down around your neck and drag you off.

I have said many times before that if we removed religion from our world we would release the worst people to do the most horrible things. We want you to stay in church, we feel much safer that way.

Throughout human history as our species has faced the frighten terrorizing fact that we do not know who we are and where we are going; it has been the authority (the political, the religious, and the educational authorities) who have attempted to comfort us. By giving us order, rules, and regulation. Informing or forming in our minds their view of reality. To think for yourself you must question these authorities. THINK FOR YOURSELF…


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I am afraid I don't fully

I am afraid I don't fully understand what your question is supposed to imply or I simply don't understand how true or false and/or obscene and/or shortsighted comments uttered by individuals (may they be theist or atheist) has any bearing on the existence of 'truth' or that of naturalism (materialism) or that of morals (relative as they might be). Morals and ethics are side effects of life and society springing from self preservation, found in theists and atheists alike.

Perhaps you should rephrase your question.

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rybak303 wrote: I am

rybak303 wrote:

I am curious, if Nature, that is the material universe, is all that there is and absolute morals and truth do not exist then how do atheists refute the following statements by Adolf Hitler and the Marquis de Sade?

 

“I do not see why man should not be just as cruel as nature.” -Hitler

 

“Success is the sole earthly judge of right and wrong.” -Hitler

 

“Miserable creatures, thrown for a moment on the surface of this little pile of mud, is it decreed that one half of the flock should be the persecutor of the other? Is it for you, mankind, to pronounce on what is good and what is evil?” -Marquis de Sade

 

“All universal moral principles are idle fancies.” -Marquis de Sade

 

 

But there is nothing here that we need to answer.

 

 

 

Its damn hard shutting up a fool.