How is there a Hell if there is no God?

nosuchthingashell
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How is there a Hell if there is no God?

Before I start to get flammed on here, I just want to say, I have no problems with anyone NOT believing in God. Personally, I have a problem with being taught that there is some old guy, sitting on a throne ready to condem me for being human and doing what comes to humans naturally.

My one problem with the website is this phrase

You may damn yourself to Hell however you would like, but somewhere in your video you must say this phrase: "I deny the Holy Spirit."

If there is no God, how can you say there is a Hell? To me, it makes no sense. I mean in order to get to Hell, you have to do something to piss this God person off right? I was raised Catholic and that what was pounded into my head for years. Mind you, I think it is all a load of shite. But it what they taught me nontheless.

I think that if we are going to let people make up there own minds and not be brainwashed into believing in some all seeing all knowning being, we also need to debunk the myth that if you piss that being off you are going to fry in hell forever. If you can explain how Hell exists when God doesn't, I would like to hear from you. I am not looking for a fight, this is just an honest question.

Lauri


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It's basically a joke. We of

It's basically a joke. We of course don't believe in hell, but according to the babble if you deny the Holy Spirit you will go there. It's a way of showing we are certain the Christian God does not exist.

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Brian37
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I deny the Holy Spirit the

I deny the Holy Spirit the same way I deny leprechans and Santa. Just because someone like believing it means nothing. But it is meaningfull when people seek to threaten me with their fiction. 

According ALL the Abrahamic deity claim the unbeliever is anyone outside that particular Abrahamic god. The holy books of all three have been used to justify opression of others. The deity character is not literal as real, but is writen as a being you dont mess with. It is the believers of such fiction we are showing that we are unafraid of them or their fiction.

This is our way of showing how rediculous the concept of being threatened is. Free people who think for themselves dont threaten and dont seek to live under threat. 

Atheists are not out to create blood drinking kitten barbaquers. We arnt out to create a dictatorship or a society of satan worshipers. We merely dont buy magical claims as fact and we'd like people to think about what it is they claim. 

 

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Blasphemy--a suppoused joke

If logical thought and reason--not a joke--is the support for such beliefs, then are you not in fact reinforcing the sanctity and therefore the deity of the Holy Spirit by vehementally overstepping the standard set down in the bible? Its not really a joke or even an issue if you say something about some thing that doesn't exist. If the bible's commands are just words and not the decrees of god, then you really aren't proving anything.


Hambydammit
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What a freakish thing to

What a freakish thing to say!

Have you really thought about what you're arguing? If we started making jokes about fairies and people who believe in fairies, would you say we were "reinforcing the sanctity and therefore the deity of the Holy Spirit... ERRR...fairies"?

If you met a person who believed that there were fairies at the bottom of her well, and that the reason the well produced clean water was that the fairies had installed an invisible magic water filter just far enough down so that you couldn't see it, or touch it... what would you think? Most likely, you'd think, "Too much LSD back in the day..." If you were with several friends, odds are you'd joke about her and the fairies as soon as you were out of earshot.

But, what if she started going down to the city council and telling them not to bother with water purification measures, because the clean water fairies had told her that they would make sure all the city water was clean?

You'd still probably make fun of her, but you'd start doing it in public, because it would be dangerous for people to believe her.

Now... suppose you started an internet blog to warn people about this woman and her fairies. Would you be making the fairies more real?

 

Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin

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Yellow_Number_Five
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Jaimie wrote: If logical

Jaimie wrote:

If logical thought and reason--not a joke--is the support for such beliefs, then are you not in fact reinforcing the sanctity and therefore the deity of the Holy Spirit by vehementally overstepping the standard set down in the bible? Its not really a joke or even an issue if you say something about some thing that doesn't exist. If the bible's commands are just words and not the decrees of god, then you really aren't proving anything.

Utter bollocks.

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle

I am against religion because it teaches us to be satisfied with not understanding the world. - Richard Dawkins

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Macgawd
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Hello Jaimie, Jaimie

Hello Jaimie,

Jaimie wrote:
If logical thought and reason--not a joke--is the support for such beliefs, then are you not in fact reinforcing the sanctity and therefore the deity of the Holy Spirit by vehementally overstepping the standard set down in the bible? Its not really a joke or even an issue if you say something about some thing that doesn't exist. If the bible's commands are just words and not the decrees of god, then you really aren't proving anything.


The "Blasphemy Challenge" is little more than a puerile publicity stunt to get media attention--does anyone think that Nightline, or any other news agency would give a rats fuzzy nutsack about "Rational Responders.com" if they hadn't devised this little gem? Doubtful. Although I admit it is a rather brilliant way to get attention, it is only because of the "Challenge" that RRS is getting their 15 minutes of fame; lacking any real substantive argument against God and religion (see the Nightline interview), they're nothing more than the latest curiosity in the perpetual freakshow that the internet breeds on a weekly basis, and they'll be out of the public eye as quickly as they came in. Confusing rhetoric for fact, their members offer no new insights, but only parrot what has already been said by many more interesting and intelligent minds.

Does the "Blasphemy Challenge" inadvertently support the existence of Hell? Well, I'm convinced of the screwball sincerity portrayed by the RRS and its groupies, and I'm certain that their intention is not to lend credence to a concept they claim they don't believe in; however despite their claims, the last thing they want is for religion to go away--their very reason for being is to attack God and religion, and without the easy metaphysical punching bag of "god-belief", they would have to move on to more meaningful endeavors, and Sapient would have to move out of what appears to be his mother's basement.

This raises an interesting question: If God doesn't exist, and rational atheism is the best approach to living, is expending all your energy childishly ridiculing what you don't even believe in really the best approach to forwarding that philosophy? The folks at RRS seem to be moderately intelligent, and obviously possess some public relations and marketing skills in order to get the attention that they have, yet if their goal is honestly to educate people and "free minds" from religion, their efforts would be better served by discussing and promoting atheist philosophy, rather than simply ridiculing religion, which only attracts the lowest common denominator, and serves to give energy and purpose to that which they wish to eliminate. Notable atheist philosophers like Ayn Rand put their intellect to work in developing complex philosophies and institutions in which to study them; an intelligent passing observer who is on the fence regarding religion would almost certainly be turned off by the vitriol and intellectual dishonesty passed off as truth on RRS, and conclude that atheism is no better than religion.

It has been said that a true atheist is apathetic regarding God and religion, regarding it a waste of thought and effort; the person who lives only for attacking God and religion and those who believe in it are rightly called 'God-Haters', and they offer nothing of value beyond that which they wish to dismantle.

Michael

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Yellow_Number_Five
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"puerile stunt" that got

"puerile stunt" that got you and the entire nation talking about the subject. "stunt" that got thousands of people to hear our views. "stunt" that puts the big scary subject out there in the open.

In case you haven't figured it out, that was our goal - to get people talking, get them thinking. Thinking is the bane of religion, it eats away at it, consumes it like cancer.

In conjunction with that, we made it known that there are a LOT of atheists out there, atheists who are not afraid to challenge such bullshit; and we gave these people a platform to speak their minds. In that regard, we've made it in spades.

 

BTW, Mac, how did you find this site, and why did you register?

The more people whine about the Challenge, the more I know we've made a difference.

I am against religion because it teaches us to be satisfied with not understanding the world. - Richard Dawkins

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Macgawd
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Yellow_Number_Five

 

Yellow_Number_Five wrote:

"puerile stunt" that got you and the entire nation talking about the subject. "stunt" that got thousands of people to hear our views. "stunt" that puts the big scary subject out there in the open.


Yes, and now the entire nation has already moved on to more interesting things, like the mysterious death of Anna Nicole Smith.  You were the flavor-of-the-minute, and you'll be lucky if the "Challenge" makes the "Year-In-Review" tape.

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Thinking is the bane of religion, it eats away at it, consumes it like cancer.


:Yawn:  Rhetorical nonsense that has no basis in fact.

Quote:
In conjunction with that, we made it known that there are a LOT of atheists out there, atheists who are not afraid to challenge such bullshit; and we gave these people a platform to speak their minds. In that regard, we've made it in spades.


Yes, I've seen these "thinking" people here on the forum and in the RRS chat--so full of original thought and witty banter like "Fuck the Xtians" and "belief in God = belief in the Tooth Fairy".  That's so deep and meaningful, man--where do I sign up?

 
Quote:
BTW, Mac, how did you find this site, and why did you register?


Saw the link on another forum, and couldn't believe how inane the whole thing was, so I came here to check it out.  As far as atheist sites go, it's pretty weak.  Why did I register?  Because it's weak, and I relish in every opportunity to point that out.

Quote:
The more people whine about the Challenge, the more I know we've made a difference.


But the only people whining about the "Challenge" are hard-core Fundie Christians who wouldn't abandon their beliefs at gunpoint--so exactly how have you "made a difference"?  By attracting more angst-ridden, semi-literate, upper-middle class white teenagers who parrot the same ridiculous diatribes against religion to your "cause"?  Somehow, I don't think that Christianity and religion are in any danger from the Emo Atheist Army.

Michael

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THIS THREAD FOR DETAILS:
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Yellow_Number_Five
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Macgawd

Macgawd wrote:
Yellow_Number_Five wrote:

"puerile stunt" that got you and the entire nation talking about the subject. "stunt" that got thousands of people to hear our views. "stunt" that puts the big scary subject out there in the open.


Yes, and now the entire nation has already moved on to more interesting things, like the mysterious death of Anna Nicole Smith. You were the flavor-of-the-minute, and you'll be lucky if the "Challenge" makes the "Year-In-Review" tape.

 We got the message out. End of story, and even you give us that.

Quote:
Quote:
Thinking is the bane of religion, it eats away at it, consumes it like cancer.


:Yawn: Rhetorical nonsense that has no basis in fact.

 So, you're saying higher thought is conducive to relidious belief?

Quote:
Quote:
In conjunction with that, we made it known that there are a LOT of atheists out there, atheists who are not afraid to challenge such bullshit; and we gave these people a platform to speak their minds. In that regard, we've made it in spades.


Yes, I've seen these "thinking" people here on the forum and in the RRS chat--so full of original thought and witty banter like "Fuck the Xtians" and "belief in God = belief in the Tooth Fairy". That's so deep and meaningful, man--where do I sign up?

 I'm sure you HAVE seen that. I'm also SURE you're ignored some rather sound argumentation.

Quote:
Quote:
BTW, Mac, how did you find this site, and why did you register?


Saw the link on another forum, and couldn't believe how inane the whole thing was, so I came here to check it out. As far as atheist sites go, it's pretty weak. Why did I register? Because it's weak, and I relish in every opportunity to point that out.

 

And you're doing a wonderful job pointing that out, btw. We almost shut down the site because of your last post.

Quote:
Quote:
The more people whine about the Challenge, the more I know we've made a difference.


But the only people whining about the "Challenge" are hard-core Fundie Christians who wouldn't abandon their beliefs at gunpoint--so exactly how have you "made a difference"?

First, thanks for identifying yourself. We don't expect to get through to twits like you, we intend to make examples of you. Thanks for helping us out. 

Quote:
By attracting more angst-ridden, semi-literate, upper-middle class white teenagers who parrot the same ridiculous diatribes against religion to your "cause"? Somehow, I don't think that Christianity and religion are in any danger from the Emo Atheist Army.

Michael

DILLIGAF. It's an anacronym, Google it.

I am against religion because it teaches us to be satisfied with not understanding the world. - Richard Dawkins

Atheist Books, purchases on Amazon support the Rational Response Squad server.


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Yellow_Number_Five

Yellow_Number_Five wrote:

Utter bollocks.

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle

Exactly.

 

Jamie, Lauri: Are you sure you've given this proper thought.

Would you honestly suggest, that regarding a claim false prevents you from understanding what is being claimed, and furthermore that regarding a claim false prevents you FROM SAYING SO??? Would considering Superman fictional prevent me from declaring that I deny that Superman exists for real?

Would you honestly suggest you can't deny something exists, unless you do indeed believe it exists?

Or, simply put, would you honestly suggest one can only state the opposite of one's convictions? That you can't deny unless you acknowledge, and you can't accept unless you refuse?

~Let us be reasonable~

You want to claim there's such a thing as "the supernatural"? Fine. I hereby declare you to be "paracorrect" in doing so.